Pierre Jodlowski: Music of Action
Read my interview with Pierre Jodlowski. He is a French / Polish composer. His work is influenced by the issues and events happening in the world or society. The composer uses different kinds of media to express his point of view on various subjects. Jodlowski believes that changing perception, creating memory and experimenting are the most valuable aspects of composing, to his mind. His work unfolds today in many areas : films, interactive installations, staging. His works are performed in key places devoted to contemporary music in France, Europe, Canada, China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan and the United States. Text version of interview was created by Armands Sargsuns.
How do you define good music?
It’s very hard to answer this question without a specific context in mind, because the relationship and the experience differs, depending on the setting. For example, if I’m on a road trip, the experience will be much different than if I were attending a concert. I’ve been trying to find the common themes of how I value music and one of the criteria would be the quality of the performance. I can name an example from my work when I had a terrible experience. So I had written a couple of pieces and they were badly performed, because the people I worked with didn’t really understand what to put there and there was a lot of miscommunication when it came to performance aspects of the piece, therefore the end result was disappointing both for me and the audience too. Some years later the same pieces were performed, but this time the performers really understood the piece, so they found ways to act it out and found the appropriate attitude to express the essence of this composition. I could extend this perspective a bit further by saying that the quality of the performance and its connection to the music is very important.
Another aspect that makes this question more complex is the fact that I use various forms of media in my work, such as video, lights, gestures, etc. It makes me question whether the music itself can be perceived as an emotionally fulfilling experience without seeing the visuals. Sometimes it leads to a paradoxical situation where I have to take a detour to find the appropriate media that makes the whole process a bit more difficult, but that also brings a sense of challenge of sorts. The paradox makes me look at each aspect individually and helps me understand the relationships and connections between the details of a composition.
I must mention that I’ve been an artistic director of different festivals for many years and I am very open-minded to various genres and forms of expression, trying to get away from my personal criteria of what I perceive as good music. I have to say that I’m pleasantly surprised every time by what we perceive as good music which operates only within the realm of sounds. The main role of music, in my opinion, would be dealing with time and how you can shape the time with musical process, combining it with energy, flow, acceleration, contrast, etc. I think it’s a magical experience when the music is crafted well and when it unveils itself in a way that has never been seen before.
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What are the main musical ideas you like to explore in your compositions?
This question brings me back to my roots, because it was a long journey of finding my way in the world of composing. When I was going to contemporary music concerts, I could observe a huge paradox between the music [which incorporated very modern and ambitious ideas] and the representation itself that I perceived as extremely archaic, old-fashioned. What I heard and what I saw was simply disconnected and I started to deeply think about this. The thing that really helped me settle was experimenting and I don’t think I’ll ever stop searching for new ways to create music, because I find it exciting and that’s what draws me back to it.
Another important aspect is defining a language where different parameters are interconnected, so it adds multiple layers of perception to a piece. I like to approach this aspect, because it showcases both my activity as a composer and also political engagement. I would call myself an “engaged artist”, not necessarily in politics, but I like to be aware of my surroundings, because my inspiration usually comes from frustration concerning the society, the events and anything else that happens around me. Composing sort of feels like psychoanalysing the issue and trying to solve it. In order to achieve that I pick a target and a subject, I read a lot about this subject, watch films, trying to embrace the topic as widely as I can. Then the composition process can start.
I’ve gained a lot of inspiration from cinema throughout the years. It has helped me to shape my artistic culture and my approach to storytelling. I enjoy watching movies, because it gives me new perspectives on how to develop my multi-layer approach to composing. For instance, if I create a story that’s based on environmental issues, I will create a character who tells the story. I would start with breathtaking shots of nature, moving on to a bustling city with heavy traffic and I would start addressing the problem of pollution, etc. By doing this I create a certain set of expectations for the audience while they observe the musical action happening on the stage. Then I would add a layer of timing and a specific dynamic in which the story progresses, creating a new logic. I use this approach for every single element that I include in the composition and then I synchronise them, creating a mental activity inside the spectator’s mind and giving to each layer of the work an active dynamic point. I try to implement an activity inside the spectator, trying to play with emotions and reflexes to bring out all of the layers. An example I could mention is a piece that I made when I had just graduated from the conservatory. I was inspired by a movie which was directed by the Russian master Eisenstein. He had a theory called “editing of attractions” where he tried to create the highest level of dynamics by changing different parameters for each scene. The way I incorporated this technique in my work was that I began with a trio performing on a stage with a video in the background. Then I proceeded to include darkness and a voice telling us something, completely changing the setting of the previous scene. That helps me to create memory, change the perception of time and also to have these different dynamic points that keep the interest of the audience.
What is your process of composing?
The process includes a lot of stages and some of them are subconscious, because at times I’m not even aware that I have to do some of the steps to finish a piece. We’re living in a brutal society and the values are defined by the neoliberal environment of certain attitudes, perceptions, consumerism and understanding of what’s wrong and right. The time we’re living in is filled with technological advances which also raises the question of one’s identity as well. What I’m trying to say here is that our world is generally a very big mess, because there are many contradictions in the belief system of society, so my starting point is narrowing down the subject I’d like to talk about, for example, miscommunication or environmental issues, etc. The topic that I discussed in one of my pieces was about hygiene and cleanliness and this triggered me as I see this issue as a paradox because of the fact that the world is filled with “dirty” things, such as being victimised by technology, environmental issues and many other things that humans have created and that have caused any harm to our planet or society, so I decided to do some research with this perspective in mind. I approached this topic with a sense of impoliteness and humour in mind. My preferred news channels are newspapers, because I don’t trust digital media as it analyses what I’m looking for and it feels quite restrictive. To sum it up, the choice of the subject and research comes first and then I start the process of composing and finding the appropriate media for expressing the meaning of a piece.
What inspired you to use different kinds of media?
The process of combining different media just came very naturally. For instance, I hate this sort of archaic practice when I go to a concert and it begins with the musicians entering the stage, the audience giving a round of applause, then the conductor arriving and so on. It felt like it killed the art and that made me question whether it’s still necessary to produce something new. Nowadays, technology and tools of communication are growing rapidly, so it opens up new possibilities and opportunities to integrate it in the arts.
Personally, the more popular practices in music triggered something within me to start experimenting with lights, video and other media to create a sanctuary for music in a way. I started having discussions with other musicians and the first thing I asked them when we began a project together was: “Why are you here?” The response I received for the most part was: “I’m here to play your music.” Then I started to dig deeper by asking questions about their motivation or the things they wanted to convey through music, because if they just wanted to perform my music we could just do it then and there would be no need for an audience. Understanding this led me to the point where I asked the performers to play by heart and that completely changed the way I perceived music and composing, so that was fascinating to see. I continued this train of thought in various ways, trying to avoid using the same media over and over again, so that inspired me to gain new skills and knowledge which I could incorporate in my work.
How does the process of composing change when you use different media?
I think it differs, but at the same time it doesn’t change. For example, if a composer wrote a solo piece for a violin (without any specific visuals added), it would be one setting, but if you take the same piece and add a murder scene in the background the perception changes completely. The change in perception is not something you have to fight for or against, but it’s just something you just need to accept as a part of the process.
An important thing I’d like to add is that sometimes you can really tell that the video wasn’t a part of the initial concept and if it was removed, it wouldn’t change that much. It’s like an actor putting on lipstick — the scene just looks more visually appealing, but it doesn’t make the text itself better. When I start working on a piece I start by taking my notebook and drawing the situation and that helps me understand how I could develop different relationships, for instance, between the screen and the instruments and there may be times when I don’t even need music. I think that silence is one of the most beautiful sounds to create a structure for a piece and if you tame the stage as an entire physical experience, then you can play around with it by finding the right movements and it creates the expectation of sound for the audience. I’ve taken inspiration from John Cage to use this technique in my work and that has helped me realise different ways to give progression to a piece as well as creating the appropriate atmosphere for my vision. It works the same way in other art forms too where you have to work with a progression of a storyline and make people feel a certain way, so using different kinds of media is my way of dealing with various fields of perception.
Would you call your approach to composing as theatrical?
Using video creates a situation where it opens up a realm of possibilities. For example, I composed a piece for a solo trombone that’s called “Outer Space”. I had a commission with a trombonist and I began making the video by understanding the connection between the environment, the relationship of the video as a space and the character. Then I started to work with the trombone player and asked him to show some different techniques before deciding that the concept would be that he will be a “cameraman” who acts out the story. The progression of the piece was continued by diving shots in positions: left, centre and right. The trombone player proceeded to play the instrument in these positions which created a synchronised movement with the visual part. Using this technique while filming allowed me to create an esoteric environment and twist the perception of reality.
What do you fear as a composer?
The thing I fear the most is losing my freedom as it is a crucial part of my life both as a human being and, of course, as a composer as well. If I think of ways I could lose my freedom, it could be war when I’ll be obliged to run away and stop creating new pieces. But there are also more tricky possibilities, such as success. Obviously, everyone wants to become successful in their own field, but what I mean by the fear of success is being so driven to it that you kind of get trapped in this one box where you’re not able to be free anymore. Many artists have faced the challenge in their careers and they have to start reconsidering their practice once they realise this issue. I hope I don’t come to the point in my life where I feel pinned down during my creative process.
Why do you still compose?
It really feels like I have no other choice, because I have created this full dependency where I don’t think I can do anything else. I wouldn’t call myself a workaholic, it’s more about the balance that it gives to my life. Another important aspect is my obsession with memory and preserving important things in history to keep them alive, because it’s impossible to remember every single one of them. This is more of an intuitive process, but I create classifications and archives of my work, because I deem it as an integral part of composing. It helps me organise the mess that occurs once in a while, so I can keep going with a clear mind and take my time to create something new.
How has your music changed?
I think it hasn’t changed that much in terms of experimenting, searching and accepting failure. For instance, if I received a commision for a 15 minute string quartet piece, I wouldn’t accept it, because it’s not my style. Currently my main focus is on the projects where I can take my time to develop things and enjoy my creative freedom with no restrictions.
When I make workshops with musicians from the younger generation I usually mention Stockhausen who has written a string quartet with helicopters and I’m asking the students to imagine similar scenarios which might seem and absurd and impossible to realise given the restrictions of the venue, but that makes them outside of the box and find different approaches to storytelling. The world has changed a lot in the context of contemporary music, for example, compared to what happened in the 1970s when composers had a bit more recognition in the public eye. But I don’t let my surroundings and the changes around me influence my work too much and I encourage others not to be afraid and find ways to make their visions come to life as well.
How has technology impacted your music?
From my point of view, technology is a tool, just like any musical instrument, for example, a violin. It has endless abilities to create music and it’s always interesting to discover new ways to make sounds with it. There was a point where I developed the softwares I was working with to personalise my collection of samples, but this aspect of programming and coding has become less interesting for me and I’ve shifted my focus elsewhere, because I think I’ve gathered tools that are powerful enough and I don’t feel the necessity to go back to developing. I’m entering a phase where I really want to dig deep and get to know various topics from different perspectives, so the main thing I’m focusing on is expanding my knowledge.
How has music and audience changed?
At the beginning of my journey in composing I felt very isolated because of the way I approached it. There are up-and-coming composers on the scene that are also using video, gestures, etc. In general terms, more artists see music as a multi-sensory experience as well and it comes more naturally for them. Sometimes I even get some calls from younger composers and some see me as a kind of pioneer of this type of “multimedia approach” (such as Michael Beil for example) and it’s very nice to see that a multimedia piece is not seen as something exotic anymore and more people are open to experiencing and creating such things.
As I mentioned previously, I also work as an Artistic Director for festivals and other events and I think it’s very nice, because it gives a lot more insight into the changes of the network. Unfortunately, seeing the whole picture has given me disappointment in terms of the connections between contemporary and classical music. I was convinced that in the future we’d see a bigger audience going back to classical music concerts and operas, but I’d have to say that it seems less likely as time goes by. I read an interview where an artist said that the audience for new music comes from many different networks which I completely agree with, so the key thing, to my mind, would be to keep creating music and open the doors of the contemporary music theatre to reach a bigger audience.
What is the direction that music is going in?
I don’t really want to say things that may become reality in the future, because I’d like to see the direction come naturally without putting too much thought into what might come or not come later on. What I do see is that the audience still requires physical presence, but it’s important to find new ways to create the shape or the structure of a piece. If I was posing a commission to a composer, I would suggest creating an installation that happens for hours and the performers could be seen all over the venue, not just on the stage. From my perspective, it would give a sense of connection between the composition itself and the world, because I believe that music has grown out of the traditional understanding of what could be a stage and I’m sure that the interpretations of a stage will exceed more in the upcoming years.
What is the role of new music in modern society?
I believe that the question applies to art in general and it’s impossible to just focus on one form of expression, because you need to see the whole picture. The role of art is to be subversive, change our perception of reality, put us on the edge, disturb us, make us feel both uncomfortable and joyful and I could keep going. It’s also about fighting against the standards, normatives and the objectifying of music, narrowing it down just to the marketability and how well it could sell. Music business exists everywhere and I want to see the change in perspective of it where it’s not only seen as a means of making money, but also seen with the meanings, messages that the artist brings to their audience. As I said there are many roles and it would take quite a long time to name all of them, but these would be the ones I deem as most important.
Selected works of Pierre Jodlowski
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