This interview was conducted as a part of ‘Future of data sharing’ sponsored by Facebook. In this series, we interviewed participants around their access, adoption and usage of financial products along with their perception of data sharing to financial institutions.
Short Story
28-year-old Manish works as a supervisor at a security company. He was born and brought up in Delhi and lives with his parents, wife and 3-year-old son. He graduated in Arts through a correspondence course after which he spent a year working with an event management company. He has been with his current employer for 4 years now. His job is on-field where he supervises security personnel. Manish’s income and savings have been affected by the COVID-19 lockdown and he plans to start investing afresh. In the long term, he dreams of having a steady income by renting out a property. When he is not working, Manish enjoys watching entertainment shows on Youtube like Tanmay Bhat’s vlog. This story captures Manish’s financial journey, technology adoption, and perceptions on data privacy.
Banking
- During his time at college, Manish used to do some promotional activities with friends to earn pocket money. He opened his first bank account with State Bank of India (SBI) to deposit this cash and to also pay his college fees. This account is now used as his primary account for both savings as well as expenses.
- When he started working in 2015, his first employer opened an account for him with Axis bank. He chooses not to use this account any more because Manish believes that the account is linked to his previous employer and he shouldn't be using it.
- A year later, his current employer opened his salary account at Kotak Mahindra Bank. He usually withdraws his salary or transfers the money to his SBI account through UPI. Manish prefers keeping his savings account (SBI) decoupled from the ones that he has opened with his employers (Kotak Mahindra and Axis):
Do you access the Kotak Mahindra account using net banking?
I have Kotak Mahindra’s app but I don’t use this account much because it’s my company account. I either withdraw the amount from this account and use it for payments or move it into my personal savings account using UPI. I do this because- in case I face any issues, I will have to report to the company. But if it’s my personal account then I can deal with the issues myself.Why did you choose SBI?
This bank is trustable. The charges aren’t as high as other banks. Also it wasn’t required to have a minimum balance in this account. The terms and conditions are less with this bank. It is a government bank.So why don’t you use Axis bank account any more?
When my job changed even the bank account had to change. I just stopped using it. I can start using it again if I want to.
Payment Modes
- Manish’s favourite mode of payment is UPI. He uses his debit cards mostly for withdrawals twice a month. He doesn’t withdraw as frequently as he used to because he makes most of his payments using UPI. He has used Google Pay, Paytm and Phonepe.
- He has an SBI credit card but it is only used as a backup option in case he runs out of money for an emergency.
- Manish uses his Paytm digital wallet only if UPI payment is not a choice. He sometimes receives money into his wallet from people who don’t use UPI. That money is either transferred to his SBI account or used for utility payments.
- Even though Manish has his reservations about Paytm, he cannot resist the convenience that it offers him:
How do you decide which UPI app to use?
When Paytm’s server doesn’t work or if it faces some other issues then I use Google Pay. Paytm has better features than Google Pay. It is easier to understand and use Paytm’s homepage. There are lesser options on Google’s homepage. In Paytm you also have the feature to easily pay the EMI for your loans by entering your loan number.
“UPI is hassle-free because you don’t need to keep adding money (into the digital wallet) and verifying OTP.”
When you pay via Paytm do you always use UPI and not wallet?
It’s hassle-free because you don’t need to keep adding money and verifying OTP. But very recently, after Chinese apps were banned, I started using Google Pay more. There were controversies around Paytm regarding it being a Chinese app.Have you tried Phonepe?
Yes, I have tried it for a payment at a Mother Dairy outlet. There used to be a lot of cashbacks in the beginning. But my trust is less in Phonepe because I used to get a lot of phone calls from them, asking me to do KYC. So I stopped using it.Do you have a credit card?
Yes, I have one from SBI but I use it only if necessary because in one way, it is a type a loan. We will have to pay the bill. If you have a constant cash flow, then you should use that. Credit card can be used during emergencies. I could use it during a relative’s marriage or for festival expenses. I could use it in case of a medical emergency or to gift someone.
- Manish checks his account balance every 2–3 days and checks his bank statements on a quarterly basis on the SBI YONO app. He is stoked by the convenience it provides. His description of the app justifies its name — YONO: You Only Need One.
Do you use the YONO app for net banking?
Yes. It has a lot of features. You can get your statement on your email. You have an option to create a demat account. You can buy policies with it. You can do all your banking with it and you don’t need to go to a branch for it!
Expenses
- Manish’s recurring expenses include his utility bills, groceries, vacations, entertainment, his son’s playschool fees and his parents’ medical expenses. Unfortunately, during the COVID-19 lockdown, Manish’s salary was reduced. His family has reduced their entertainment expenses like parties, dine outs, movies and shopping.
- Most of his expenses are paid for using Paytm. It is his first choice due to the convenience it offers him through its vast range of options and bill payment reminder notifications. He even books bus and train tickets on Paytm.
- For mobile recharges, Manish switched to Google Pay after rumours around Paytm being a Chinese app. He does mobile recharges for his family as well.
- Manish pays using cash only if UPI or debit card is not an option, for e.g. payment for gas cylinder delivery. Despite cash payments being his last priority, he uses it by choice for online grocery shopping — citing a lack of trust:
How do you plan for grocery shopping?
I buy groceries once a month. We make a list and I go to Big Bazaar. But now, due to COVID-19, we shop online from Big Bazaar. I can pay via debit card or Cash on Delivery (COD) for it. Sometimes, they might not bring good quality products, so I am apprehensive about paying in advance.How do you pay when you shop offline on Big Bazaar?
Debit card. The amount is not fixed so there is no point in carrying cash.Why did you opt for Zomato Gold?
Since COVID-19, we have been mostly ordering in. The offers of Buy 1 Get 1 free is good. You get the offer both on dining and on delivery.How do you decide between using Bookmyshow and Paytm?
Based on the availability of offers. Bookmyshow also has a wallet so it collects points which you can use for booking. On Paytm also, when you buy tickets in bulk for the family, there are some offers.
Loans
- Manish took a personal loan online from Home Credit’s app when he had to urgently finance his sister’s wedding. He found the process quite easy and comfortable. This loan was repaid using auto-debit setup from his SBI account.
- Manish encountered Home Credit while purchasing his mobile phone. He had also took zero-interest consumer durable loan from Bajaj to finance his air conditioner. The EMI was auto debited through his SBI account and has been repaid in full.
- Just like his aversion to using his credit card, Manish believes that any type of loan is to be taken only for emergency purposes:
Why did you pay using EMI?
Our old AC had gotten spoilt so we had to buy one as an emergency. And now inverter ACs are more popular. It has better capacity and consumes less electricity. I would’ve paid upfront if it was 20,000–25,000 Rupees. But this was costly. It cost us 45,000 Rupees.How did you hear about Home Credit?
I had initially used it for financing my mobile. When I had gone to the mobile shop, I came to know about them. Then I downloaded their app. I came to know that we can take loans online. I used to get offers via their application. When I applied for a loan of 1 lakh, they easily disbursed it to me. It was quite easy.Were you ever apprehensive about taking a loan from an app? Did you consider a bank?
At the time, the loan was necessary for me. It was being processed fast. I got a call on the same day saying the amount has been disbursed. So I decided to go ahead with them.
Investments
- Manish saves a minimum of 3,000–4,000 Rupees every month. Since his salary was reduced, it has been difficult to continue this habit.
- In case of emergencies, he always keeps a minimum of 20,000 Rupees liquid in his SBI account. He had also created an FD in 2015 and an RD in 2017 with SBI. Although, it is getting increasingly difficult for him to pay for his RD due to his salary reduction. He foresees breaking his FD for his son’s school admission next year.
- Manish wants to start investing in mutual funds and the stock market after learning about them in-depth. He has made a few attempts to learn from his friend:
Do you have any future plan to invest in mutual funds and stocks?
I don’t have enough knowledge or guidance regarding this. But I have seen TV ads about mutual funds. It starts even at 500 Rupees and there are market risks associated with it. I spoke to a friend from office who made use of his demat account for investing in stocks during the lockdown. So I was trying to learn from him to understand how to use it. I’m not able to have a lot of discussions now but I hope to invest in them in the future once I get more information. I could start with small amounts and increase them if there are good returns.Do you have a demat account?
Not yet but the option is available through SBI YONO. Right now, I don’t have enough knowledge. I will ask at the branch first and then go ahead.Did you start your FD and RD with a plan in mind?
There were expenses during my wife’s pregnancy. I will have to use the FD for my child’s admission next year. I haven’t used it till now because of the lock-in period. It’s for 2 years. After that, I will start some policy like LIC Jeevan Anand after gathering information about what new investments I should be making and where.
Insurances
- Manish took a health insurance policy through an agent from Religare. He took it based on his colleague’s referral. It covers his wife and child as well. He pays its annual premium via cheque.
- He has vehicle insurance policies for both his bike and car. The car insurance was taken through an executive whom he met at an ICICI marketing kiosk. His bike insurance recently expired which prompted him to renew it online via Paytm.
Did you come to know about these insurances at the time of purchase of your vehicles?
Yes. Even otherwise, when we go out for shopping, we meet the executives of these insurance companies at their marketing stalls near petrol pumps. Even Paytm has insurance options. You can enter your vehicle number and get insurance. You get a lot of options from which you can buy after doing comparisons.Do you have a life insurance?
Life insurance is attached with my vehicle insurance. In the vehicle insurance, there is cover for accidents. So I will get some amount in case of accidents.
Technology Adoption
- Manish owns a range of gadgets including a PC, laptop, smartphone, TV and Bluetooth headset. He likes to use the Google Assistant on his phone for Google search.
- Manish has been using Facebook for almost 10 years now. He uses it regularly and actively shares posts. He uses Skype for both personal as well as professional use. He prefers it over Whatsapp for video calls due to its quality.
How many times do you check Whatsapp in a day?
I think every 1 or 2 hours, I receive a message on Whatsapp from friends, office or promotional messages.Why do you prefer Amazon Prime over other services?
It has better content and more options. My friends were also using it. I have more information regarding Amazon also. And it has other benefits as well like one-day delivery on Amazon.
Data Sharing and Privacy
- Manish’s experience with digital lending at Home Credit has drawn him to the convenience that it provides. Even though he trusts government banks the most, convenience trumps all for Manish.
M: I would choose payment apps because it’s hassle-free and online. Home Credit was easy to use. You can get a loan through its app. You will get its approval quite fast. So considering the loan is an urgent requirement, I would want a fast process for obtaining it. I would be open to taking a loan from the others too but their processes are slow.
We asked the participant what kind of data would they be interested in sharing across the different types of loan providers to borrow a personal loan
- Manish is comfortable sharing the standard data (KYC, income statement, credit score) that financial institutions currently ask for during loan applications. He feels averse towards sharing any new kind of data like his social media profiles or investment details, even if in exchange for a lower interest rate.
M: No, social media is not a professional thing. It’s personal. Why should they ask for something that’s personal? When you open a bank account, they ask for your PAN card number. When you apply for a loan, they ask for your bank statement, PAN card number and Aadhaar card.
“I don’t want to use my investments as a guarantee (for loan applications).”
If Paytm offered you a loan with a lower interest rate for sharing your investment details with them, would you accept it?
M: I don’t think it will be fine to declare investment details. They typically check the graph of your income but not your investments. You can share your details verbally but I don’t think they should take down our policy number. What if they ask for it as a guarantee? I wouldn’t be willing to use investments as a guarantee.
To further cross their statements we asked the participants to choose from two different types of loans based on their varying data requirements and captured their thoughts.
M: I would go for the option of sharing 3 months’ bank statement. I don’t think they should be asking for the bank statement throughout the duration of the loan because whatever documentation needs to be done, should be done before taking the loan. There should be no documentation after the loan is sanctioned. If they want some access to our account, there is the ECS option for them to auto debit the amount. Beyond that, giving access to your account gets too personal.
M: I will choose the bank with the higher interest rate because it won’t share my information with 3rd parties. Safety is my first preference. I shouldn’t fall into trouble in the future by prioritising the lower interest rate. The information shouldn’t reach the wrong hands and cause harm. If it does, whom will I complain to? Even in social media where we provide our email IDs for creating a new account, we hope that the company will not share our details with anyone.
Goals and Aspirations
- The COVID-19 lockdown has drastically affected Manish’s savings. For this reason, creating new investments is a large part of his goals. In the long term, he would like to own a property which he can rent out. This will ensure that he has a steady income during his retirement. Though his goals are clear, Manish has not yet charted a clear plan to achieve them yet.
Do you have any short term financial goals?
I would like to invest in LIC policies like Jeevan Anand policy. I’d like to start investing in mutual funds to see what kind of returns I get. During the lockdown, most my savings have diminished. Even my FD will have to be broken next year for my son’s school admission. So I am considering starting new FDs and new policies. I have to start investing from the beginning.Do you have any dreams for the future for which you require saving money?
I would like to invest in an additional property so that I can get income through rent even if I don’t have a job. The idea is fixed but it will take some time. I hope for it to be done in the next 5–10 years. It will benefit me during retirement as well by having a steady income. Government jobs give you pension but in a private job you don’t have that option.
Credits
- Interview by Soumitro Datta
- Transcription by Lakshmi Ajayan
- Analysed and written by Lakshmi Ajayan & Dharmesh Ba
Future of Data Sharing:
‘Future of Data Sharing’ aims at designing a playbook for consented sharing to enable financial services in India. The objective of this research is to develop a design toolkit with the upcoming public infrastructure Account Aggregators as the main theme in focus. The toolkit will host resources and assets around designing better user experiences for data sharing and data portability.
Future of Data Sharing is sponsored by Facebook and executed in collaboration with D91 Labs, DICE, Parallel Labs and TTC Labs
Future of Data Sharing by D91 Labs is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
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About the Research
This documentation is a result of the in-person interview, along with the participants’ consent. The interviews might be conducted in their native languages and translated to English in the best possible way to reach a large audience.
Disclaimer: The identities of people and places in this documentation have been changed to honour the privacy of the participants.
About D91 Labs
This research was executed and documented by D91 labs. D91 labs is an open-source initiative by setu.co to help Bharat build great fintech products. We organise and publish user research, insights, and frameworks for fintech in India. Please follow us on medium for more exciting stories and insights on Bharat.
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