NDE’s and OBE’s

Atheist Idea
Sep 18, 2017 · 4 min read

A desperate grasp for Evidence

This is a work in progress… I’m still trying to smooth out the timeline as the discussion was multi-threaded.

I had a discussion in November of 2016 on Twitter with user @wallstreeter43 or Bob Smith (BS from here on out… oh the irony) in discussing Near Death Experiences (NDEs)and Out of Body Experiences (OBEs). The idea is that somehow NDEs and OBEs are evidence for an afterlife (and possibly God). Let’s just say, I was skeptical of his claims

(BS) I posted this a million times , journal of resuscitation , lancet and journal of near death studies

(AI) The anecdotal research absent of objective study here leaves much to be desired… https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/267/2016/05/NDE-83-EM-JNDS.pdf …

(AI) NDEs not exclusive to actual Near Death situations: http://newdualism.org/nde-papers/Gabbard/Gabbard-Journal%20of%20Near-Death%20Studies_1991-10-41-47.pdf …

(AI) Now this is interesting. Gz vs NDE patient anecdotes: http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc798874/m2/1/high_res_d/vol15-no4-231.pdf …

(BS) anecdotal means isolated anomalies . Ndes research is now way beyond this stage

(AI) 3) Research, such as the Gz vs NDEs shows there may be a medical explanation that needs further investigation.

(BS) 2. GZ had never been seen to bring back objectively verifiable info from veridical ndes . Refuted and debunked

(AI) How are they verified veridical? Was fMRI used to asses null brain activity? How long in semi-conscious state?

(BS) it is well known that brain waves flat line30 seconds after cardiac arrest

(AI) In all cases? Please cite. I am… skeptical of this claim. Lol!

(BS) ask and you will receive https://t.co/qkhnVjnp71

(AI) Please, in the future, stick to journals, not blogs. I don’t have time for amateurs.

(AI) Well, that’s a blog, but it references the researchers… I should be able to find what they’ve published. Thanks!

(BS) here is acwikipedia link complete with references https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death … You can’t wiggle out of this one dude

(BS) shows consciousness for a full 3 minutes If the brain equals mind then this shouldn’t be happening

(BS) now that I have shown that the brain is non functional within 30 seconds the veridical nde on the aware study

(AI) Thanks for demonstrating why Wikipedia isn’t always a very good source. Lol!

(AI) Lets see if we can find something a bit more recent than 1975, shall we? And also references humans and not dogs!

(AI) 1) Example: using anecdotes we can determine the percent of NDEs and OBEs in Cardiac Arrest patients.

(AI) 2) However, Anecdotes can’t reliably or scientifically determine the cause of the NDE or OBE.

(AI) Actually anecdotal is not isolated anomalies, it’s personal testimony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence …

(AI) Here’s the research the blog cites and a screenshot showing why it doesn’t support you. http://www.pnas.org/content/110/35/14432.full …

(AI) Did you even READ the blog? It, in no way supports supernatural activity!

(AI) That link leads to a summary, but it’s about this paper: http://www.newspaper23.com/ripped/2014/10/http-_____-___-_www___-horizonresearch___-org__-_Uploads__-_Journal_Resuscitation__2_.pdf … Now, let’s review it.

(AI) First, they admit the study could be better. The VA test was a bit of a bust. 1 person experienced VA during CA…

(BS) https://t.co/2eN4naSqUA

References in order of appearance:

Electromagnetic Phenomena Reported by Near-Death Experiencers
Journal of Near-Death Studies, 33(4), Summer 2015 © 2015 IANDS
Bruce Greyson, MD University of Virginia Mitchell B. Liester, MD Monument, CO Lee Kinsey, PhD, LPC Dallas, TX Steve Alsum, MDiv; and Glen Fox, PhD Colorado Springs, CO
https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/wp-content/uploads/sites/267/2016/05/NDE-83-EM-JNDS.pdf …

Do “Near-Death Experiences” Occur Only Near Death?- Revisited
Journal of Near-Death Studies, 10(1) Fall 1991
Glen O. Gabbard, M.D. C.F. Menninger Memorial Hospital Stuart W. Twemlow, M.D. University of Kansas School of Medicine-Wichita
http://newdualism.org/nde-papers/Gabbard/Gabbard-Journal%20of%20Near-Death%20Studies_1991-10-41-47.pdf …

Psychophysiologic Correlates of Unconsciousness and Near-Death Experiences
Journal of Near-Death Studies, 15(4) Summer 1997
James E. Whinnery, Ph.D., M.D. West Texas Agricultural and Mechanical University, Canyon, TX
http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc798874/m2/1/high_res_d/vol15-no4-231.pdf …

In Dying Brains, Signs of Heightened Consciousness
Nationalgeographic.com POSTED MON, 08/12/2013
A Blog by Ed Yong
https://t.co/qkhnVjnp71

Clinical Death
Wikipedia Entry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death …

A review of total brain ischaemia models in dogs and original experiments on clamping the aorta
Resuscitation. (1975)
Lind B, B; Snyder, J; Kampschulte, S; Safar, P; et al.
Elsevier. 4 (1): 19–31. PMID 1188189. doi:10.1016/0300–9572(75)90061–1

Anecdotal Evidence
Wikipedia Entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence …

Surge of neurophysiological coherence and connectivity in the dying brain
PNAS | August 27, 2013 | vol. 110 | no. 35 | 14435
Jimo Borjigina, et al.
http://www.pnas.org/content/110/35/14432.full …

AWARE — AWAreness during REsuscitation — A prospective study
Resuscitation (2014)
Parnia S, et al.
http://www.newspaper23.com/ripped/2014/10/http-_____-___-_www___-horizonresearch___-org__-_Uploads__-_Journal_Resuscitation__2_.pdf …

Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands
THE LANCET • Vol 358 • December 15, 2001
Pim van Lommel, Ruud van Wees, Vincent Meyers, Ingrid Elfferich
https://t.co/2eN4naSqUA or http://www.m.horizonresearch.org/sdarticle.pdf

Notes

The term Gz is in reference to a direction of G-Force. You can read about it here.
http://www.avmed.in/2012/06/g-force-what-is/

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