Tony Baxter Interview
Interview with the Executive Producer of Euro Disneyland from Euro Disney: Connaissance des Arts
When Euro Disney opened in April 1992, they sold a book in the park’s shops about the architecture of the resort, called Euro Disney: Connaissance des Arts, at a cost of 55 French Francs. Sadly the book is no longer in publication, but I was able to get hold of a copy and type up their great interview with Tony Baxter in which he explained how the park was designed.
CdA: The majority of visitors to Euro Disneyland will be European. You have certainly taken that fact into account in your design of the park. What are some of the differences between the French and U.S. versions of the Magic Kingdom?
TB: We have taken American themes like Main Street, U.S.A., and enriched them so that they become readable for a European audience. We have also added areas, for example in Discoveryland, which are based on French or European culture.
Let me take the example of Main Street. When we did our early research we realised that the Europeans, and particularly the French, seem to prefer a little bit more substance than American audiences. To be perfectly clear, they felt that the American approach was too shallow, and that we needed to temper down the commercial aspect of the presentation.
The entry process itself is another example of the difference in cultural attitudes between the United States and France. The approach to the Palace of Versailles or to the Louvre through the Tuileries Garden set the mood before you enter the castles themselves. The entrance to Disneyland in California is simply marked by a series of ticket booths.
Here, for cultural and historical reasons, we felt that it was necessary to make the entrance much more spectacular, which is why the Disneyland Hotel complex has been built over the ticketing area.
We offer a very grand public space that is American in its imagery, but European in terms of its layout and its function. Given the local climate it was also necessary to cover the ticketing area, which is not the case in California. Climate was also the reason that we incorporated a series of arcades and covered spaces that link all the attractions.
On Main Street, we wanted to create the atmosphere of an American town, but we cannot expect everyone here to fully understand that imagery so we tried to tell more of story, to create a little more romance.
CdA: The overall layout of the park is nonetheless very similar to what you created in California, Florida and Japan.
TB: Yes, it’s a spoke-radial system that is as old as the hills in terms of city planning, but in terms of our amusement park, I think that it is an orientation device. The focus is on the centre and each voyage into Frontierland, Adventureland, Fantasyland, or Discoveryland, is a story that you can complete by coming back again to the centre and then departing again on another adventure.
I look at it as a big board game, where you start at home base and you travel through your adventure. The object is to get back to home base with a collection of memories.
The symbol of the hotel as the entry point to Euro Disneyland works very well. Some people will be living in the hotel, so it functions both in reality and symbolically as a living experience — a place where you begin, and to which you return.
It is psychologically important to give a sense of beginning and end that is comfortable, and not threatening. That’s what we do when we take a journey, we travel from home, out into the world and then return. If anything, Disneyland represents a small world. In our busy society today, consider how quickly people have to absorb tremendous amounts of information. The park is tailored to giving a multitude of different and very rich experiences in a single day.
CdA: In Euro Disneyland there are clearly a great number of references to different styles of architecture, whether on Main Street with its turn-of-the-century American architecture, or in other areas which may bring to mind the buildings of Europe or the Middle East. Did the design of those structures come out of a careful analysis of existing buildings, or is it more a studio enterprise in which you take documents culled from diverse sources, and you ask people to create an assembly of different images?
TB: It probably leans more towards the second solution. I think what we do is to research what’s there and then we come up with a studio-like interpretation of the essence of an architectural form, of what you would expect. It is an interpretation that fulfils your expectations of what these romantic areas might be like.
I can give you an example of the specific interpretation necessary for a European audience. In California, Frontierland is set along an environment which resembles the Mississippi river, because in California we live in a desert climate. We created a lush Mississippi valley there, because for Californians to see a beautiful river is an unusual experience.
Here outside of Paris, people have a day-to-day connection with romantic and beautifully landscaped environments. On the other hand, we noticed the intrigue that the American southwest had for the French and for other Europeans. The Grand Canyon or Monument Valley, the images that have become familiar through John Wayne westerns are symbolic for Europeans of the entire American West, even if we feel that in reality these regions are as varied and diverse as Europe is diverse. That is why we created what we feel is going to be a stunning red environment, that is as much in contrast with the Marne Valley here as the greenery of our Disneyland river is with the dry Southern California climate. Our aim is to give people a fresh, startling impression.
Another interesting example is the castle. If you examine the castle which we built for Walt Disney World in Florida, you will find Château de Chenonceau and Château de Chambord, you will find pieces interpreted from all the great Loire Valley castles, because for Americans, those are the symbols of the romance of Europe. I believe that Americans see Europe as a series of romantic villages and historical cities. We don’t think of Europe in the perspective of the modern world, because that is what we see every day. We want to imagine a contrast, in the same way that Europeans see the West as a purified Arizona highway magazine.
When we looked at our plans, we realised that putting up a castle that was made of bits and pieces from the great architectural icons of Europe would be a disaster.
So we went back to the cartoons that Walt Disney created, in particular Sleeping Beauty. The styling and background for that movie was very reminiscent of French tapestry and Renaissance art. In fact, the Unicorn tapestries hanging in the Musée de Cluny were used in referencing the movie. The castle really came to life out of both Disney art and the manuscript Très Riches Heures du Duc de Berry. We looked at that and we looked at countless drawings of castles, and washed from our minds the architecture for the first time, and created this castle out of the storybook art. Our castle has its own distinct element that is very different than the reality of the outside world.
The North African elements in the park may be inspired by Babar the Elephant, the Arabian Nights stories, Sinbad, or Aladdin. Here we found there was a strong tie to the romance of the Baghdad storybook setting, and so we created a bazaar as a setting of the gateway to Adventureland. We took our cue from Moroccan and North African styles, but then we layered on pure Hollywood.
CdA: Are movies the central influence of Euro Disneyland?
TB: Yes, I think so, because they influence so many people’s lives today. What most Europeans know about the American West for example has come to them through films. When we came over here, I remember that Disney’s most popular television product at that time was Zorro. This was five years ago, and it was still running here. It was a 1958 product. That was unbelievable to me, but l suddenly realised that such a television series represents something that Europeans can’t touch, so it is considered romantic.
Euro Disneyland is a place where fantasies of paradise can be fulfilled, of living in a tree or climbing the rocks and looking for buried treasure chests.
It has to do with bringing expectations and images that you have buried in your mind to life.
CdA: It must be a concern for you in this process not to reduce stories to the point at which they have been emptied of their imagination and magic.
TB: Walt Disney had an excellent answer for that. Someone confronted him, and asked, “Since you can paint anything with a brush and create any kind of a world, why do you work so hard to duplicate nature?” And Walt said, “If I didn’t work so hard to create a believable background, then no one would use their imagination.” I think the suspension of disbelief in these parks is directly related to how well the illusion is created in the background. You come in and you are the participant. For a while, you step into the realm of the Arabian Nights, or you journey to an island of pirates.
If the environment isn’t a complete space of illusion or theatre, then people are more inclined not to participate in the performance.
That doesn’t mean you have to sing or dance, but you can explore, you can use your imagination, you can believe in the environment. If we paid less attention to details you would find people standing back and observing as they would a window display, or a painting.
If one were to make a comparison between theatre and art, what we do here is much more like theatre. Yes we have a supporting cast, but the main actors are the guests that come in and live in these environments. It is a chance to play a role in the theatre, and the best theatre is something that you believe in. That’s why there is a meticulous attention to detail. It’s not that we’re trying to re-create architecture so much as create an absolutely disarming backdrop, so that people’s guard is let down and they actually live these experiences.
CdA: According to your description, the architecture which you have created in Euro Disneyland is a collection of images, many of which are more related to the movies than to any real building. Some people feel that this sort of pastiche is reprehensible, or dangerous to what they perceive as being more legitimate types of creativity. How do you react to that sort of criticism?
TB: I can’t ignore such criticism, and things like that always hurt. What sustains me as a designer is when I see the audience that we play to come through the experience and get caught up in it. We’re not asking that this be regarded on the level of fine art or current strikingly bold directions in architecture.
What we’re doing is an entertainment experience. We feel we have created prototypes in terms of experiential design.
What we sometimes talk about is eliminating contradictions that are a part of our daily life. By eliminating those contradictions, people can get on with the business of enjoying the show. That experience is not the same as seeing a fine piece of art, but on the other hand Disneyland has made many peoples’ lives happier. I think a company that can do that, and do it profitably is worthwhile. What we do isn’t an educational experience, but we stimulate awareness for things outside of one’s normal environment, and that often causes people to seek more information, and awakens a sense of adventure.
I’d rather be involved in something that can make peoples’ lives happier than to try to impress a few individuals with something that stands out as being on the cutting edge of creativity.
I would rather make something that you can touch and you can feel.
