Desegregating Scouting — The Long Game

Mirah Curzer and Steven Cohn, can’t resist jumping in.

1. Regarding the physical differences between boys and girls, I think it’s incredibly difficult, at this point in time, to separate our own internalized social differentiation and actual physical differences. I would tend to agree with Mirah, however, that prior to puberty (of course), the differences aren’t as stark as we make them out to be. I distinctly remember a time in a summer school class (about age 9) where I mistook a boy for a girl for several weeks, only to discover my mistake when I verbalized the incorrect pronoun. In Tucson, Arizona where the social rules around dress are extremely relaxed, it wasn’t uncommon for girls to wear tevas, baggy shorts, and a t-shirt (his standard outfit), and he had a unisex name, and long hair. In short, all the external markers that would help me identify him as male were ambiguous. Sure, this is anecdotal, but it gets to the point that without external markers to identify a (clothed) child’s sex like haircuts and clothes, names, and socialized behavior, it’s really not that straightforward. The process of demarcation usually begins in infancy with pink and blue clothes, hairbows on hairless infants, etc. How could this not filter into our collective consciousness and make us feel there actually is some physical difference between children of different sexes that is perceivable? If you are talking about biological differences that relate to behavior or “hard-wired” brain chemistry type of differences, I’ll just have to respectfully disagree with the idea that isn’t also socialized.
2. I whole-heartedly agree with Mirah on this point as well. To reinforce and us vs. them type of narrative in our social fabric just leads to problematic relations. Also, are we just glossing over the fact that some people are attracted to people of the same sex? How would that change the dynamic of boy-time? Should we make it just a gathering of straight males because if you are attracted to the people you’re hanging out with, it’s now no longer “safe” or “un-distracting?” Girls and boys are peers of each other. What is it boys can only learn by socializing with other humans who also happen to pee standing up? How to bust balls? (Sorry this one got me really fired up! Forgive me if I was a bit reductionist.)

3/4/5 Getting down to brass tacks, I am not sure what the right approach is here. The Boy Scouts are private social group, and if they want to exclude girls, that’s fine; just like the Girl Scouts have every right to exclude boys. I think the solution here isn’t to completely remake the Boy Scouts. They actually already have a co-ed division called Venturing, which I participated in during high school. It’s only for 14–21 year-olds, so my recommendation would be to extend that division to include younger children as well, to provide an alternative to single-sex scouting. I think the danger in making something co-ed before society is ready is that the kids of both sexes who are currently participating in scouting and who aren’t ready for the abruptly enforced desegregation process (or whose parents aren’t ready) would suffer. Desegregation is still the goal, but I think you have to take the long view and offer a viable co-ed alternative for the moment.

I’ve thought about this a lot, since I’ve often felt we should desegregate bathrooms, but I always go back to an example from Iranian history that helps illustrate what happens when you try to enforce social change too abruptly, even if it’s in the direction of equality. In 1936, the Shah of Iran was in the process of “modernizing” the country and he banned the veil. While for some women, this wasn’t an issue, for many very conservative women, the effect was to ban them from public places because they couldn’t (for personal, religious, or social reasons) leave the house without it. A goal was to end discrimination against women, but getting rid of the symbol didn’t change the internalized sexism. (Obviously, in Iran, the pendulum has now swung the other way, motivated in part by a resistance to the Western version of modernization the Shah was trying to impose on the country.) If we tried to desegregate bathrooms, would women ever want to do their business (I mean real business) in public? Some would, but a large number would probably have a hard time with it. We have to leave safe spaces for people to allow them to come to progress, while simultaneously driving change aggressively. It’s a conundrum for sure. That said, I agree targeting children’s activities is the way to go. They haven’t internalized as much sexism as their parents and probably, depending on their age, would adjust to the situation gracefully. The trouble is if their parents refuse to allow them to participate…