Timur Karimbaev on radio Mediametrics

Specially for our English-speaking audience, we present the full text of Timur Karembaev (CEO of Human Discovery Platform) speech at radio Mediametrics on the topic of the blockchain and studies of human personality. Pros cons controversial issues — in an interview with Valerie Ilich.

- Good afternoon. Channel Mediametrics, the program Cybertech with its leading Valeria Ilich. Today our guest is Timur Karimbaev, co-founder of GetCource. Tell us how the blockchain is used in the human studies? Everybody speaks generally about the financial sector, cryptocurrencies, but not about the study of man. It is something new.

Moreover, except in Finance, blockchain is almost never used. In general, it is needed in areas where there is no trust. In Finance this is obvious: imagine that you, me, and more who ever put money in the Bank. When the Bank works normally, everything is well. But if the Bank has problems, loose the license, the money is lost. The blockchain gives you the ability to negotiate between people without a middleman — between me, you and someone else that our money was stored there and we each other trusted.

It is not without intermediaries, and a variety of mediators and guarantors, confirming: “Yes, I have the money put back in”.

No, the relationship is directly between you and me. Technologically yes, a lot of guaranties are provided. If we talk about education, now almost all areas of the blockchain are going to ensure that diplomas and certificates are issued and confirmed, without intermediaries, without the point of failure, which can put pressure and where there can be a point of interest. The blockchain is always about how to get rid of the party.

Here it is important and conduct testing and examination of the participants, because it still arranged by people. Do we need the issued diploma is on the blockchain…when examination is passed through the people?

We can assume that the certificate can be issued automatically if you passed a test. There is a problem with the person identification. who passes the test. But someone will find a solution for this problem — for example, using biometrics.

But today, many exams and creative competitions can’t be checked by machines. It’s still not tested. And about testing, I still remember my tenure at the Institute, we already had a set of answers. Just get a piece of paper, like 1 is A, 2 is B. so, there’s no need to prepare. You can always circumvent the system, and the computer will show that you’re good, knows everything perfectly well, and the system will give the diploma, but in fact it is no reason. What to do with the machines?

When there is no automatic way to check something, the blockchain won’t work. It will be impossible to apply. In other cases, It’s a matter of trust. There are currencies that grow well, such as Bitcoin, because people know that it is impossible to gain in an unfair way. There are currencies that do not grow because they have a less scope, and the defense is worse. With the tests it is the same. There are tests that show something. You could theoretically get the sensors attached to use biometrics.

And how the blockchain is applicable to the study of man?

This is what we are doing now. With GetCource we are looking for different projects that can work. Now we have 6 schools: The largest school of drawing by Veronica Kalacheva, online school “Will Power”, a project by Pavel Volya and Laysan Utyasheva. For example, this year we see that the projects connected with self-knowledge grow very well. The most obvious example is an IQ test or a test of temperament.

And why do you need blockchain here? There are plenty of tests which have long been automated. There are plenty of sites. Please, go to the Internet, get tested…

There is a lot of research. The main problem of the methods is weakly confirmed data. Very small data sets, where something was tested. For example, if you collect a huge number of temperament tests and check compliance with person’s profession, we can conclude that the cholerics are more suitable for work in sales or phlegmatic for programming. Now people conduct researches, make statements, but most often they do not have statistically confirmed results. The role of the blockchain is in order to gather data independently from each other and independently of the decision-making center and to connect as many people as possible, that one man could collect data from psychological tests, the other astrological, the third geometry. And then they could act independently one of another, these data were checked, correlation tested. Someone can connect and use the data. Blockchain is also a means of payments. Someone offers test and said that the cost of the test issuing the IQ level is 5 rubles. And anyone who wants to use this test by submitting a set of answers to the questions has to pay 5 rubles. It’s a way to connect more people. An IQ test can be used for students, IQ-test can be used in HR, almost anywhere. Temperament test can be used in Dating.

You are telling terrible things. Everyone is afraid for the confidentiality of personal information and passport data. And now, thanks to the tests succeed, the more accurate they issue, the more we know about a person. Expelling the person through some basic tests in an explicit or implicit form, you can obtain information, to predict his behavior and decision-making.

You are absolutely right.

Plus, you can get his personal details somewhere, place of residence, place of study, place of work, personal characteristics. Actually people will be quite under control and manupulation.

Not quite like that. We make the blockchain, which will store a large number of de-identified data.

Of course, but the tests will show more accurate information. And about every person, expelling it through the test, we will understand a lot. The accuracy of the test results will not 50/50 as it is now, but about 90%. We will have a portrait of a man fairly complete, adding information from other sources we will have a more complete picture.

Moreover, the person should know more about himself. You are right, it would be more available information. Is it good or bad — it is a big question. But blockchain is about how to collect this information throughout the world, and that it would not belong to any company. It must be open, non-identifiable, and it is very important. Everyone can connect it now. If some data is stored within a Corporation, sooner or later, these data will be associated with personal. And then the point of no return happens, when a company wants this data to be used in personal purposes. To show ads, phone calls and offer to buy something, very precisely hitting the target. We are talking about the fact that these tests will be created sooner or later, but we want to make them opened and in a way that is not linked to any particular company, even with ours.

And how fast will them take place, blockchains are really slow…

The specific blockchains are slow — especially associated with finances. Here we need to check data quickly and record the result, to be able to store large amounts of methodics. Technologically, the structure should be different. We do not need a large number of nodes, but a small number of sufficiently powerful computers, that are fast enough to communicate with each other.

In what areas do you think this will be popular first?

We are testing different projects. A new project is called Human Discovery Platform. We conducted the test in the field of Dating, based on one methodology — the Design of Man, which gives the date, time and place of birth information about his identity.

Often, these tests give very positive characteristics. Such psychological trickery is known…

The main indicator of the project is that people are willing to pay and make the conversion. This methodology is not always saying well about the person. At also says what’s bad. In compatibility tests people requested numbers — how this man is compatible with me from 0 to 100. But this is impossible. In some cases the compatibility is intellectual, in some others — emotional. It’s not even a question of our confidence in the methodology. We examined the interest of the audience. We just took a sample of 15 thousand people, looked at their reaction. It was very interesting, because we assumed that they will look for compatible people in the town. But that didn’t work out. They tested themselves, their relatives, children, colleagues and just reading the description. We also see applications in spheres from HR to Dating. In the States there are tests that are used in large companies to recruit people. In 93 or 200 questions about person they discover one of the 16 types. In Russia it is called socionics.

And how relevant these tests how do they work?

88% of Fortune 500 companies use MBTI testing, according to Wikipedia. They also have the problem with the accumulation of empirical data. But we know that there are people who take the decision on the basis of — hire the person or not to hire. For example, in India the market of astrology is about $10 billion a year, while online is growing every year two times. We expect that by 2020 it will be about 3 billion. There are people who use it. The problem is that the market is very fragmented, and with the people who provide these services. There is no one whom they trust, and no one has evidence that his methods are right or wrong. Our task is just to give statistical tools to collect and study these things.

How accurately these methodics can be applied for kids? Now the flow of information is very large, the educational programs are enhanced and it is impossible to cover everything. They are asking what you want to be and asking to choose items that are well worth exploring, leaving the other for common development, that is just nice to know, but no more. There are also specialized classes, specialized schools. How it can be applied accurately?

This system will provide an infrastructure. How will specific tests and projects will succeed? We don’t know. We will give people the opportunity to connect and test their hypothesis, collect data and verify.It you have sent those kids to the math class and 80% of them then entered some UNIVERSITY or work in the specialty. It’s quite a long study, because many years will pass from the beginning until the results.

How sociologists, psychologists and astrologers participate in your research?

It’s funny, but we know that many people believe in astrology. Personally, I never believed — I’m a techie. But when I heard my description from the astrologer, I was surprised. It works. I didn’t understand the relationship between inputs and outputs. How can you make such conclusions? But I have seen people as surprised not once. Psychologists, sociologists, and astrologers — they all fit this system.

But are people themselves ready to pass the test with their results remained? Most often we write the tests, and nothing is saved.

Why do you think that they are not saved? There is a teaser network, which preserve the page where you clicked, and then shows you very relevant ads. If you say, that tests never leaves your data, you are not quite right. People will take tests in the same places as now. And if they’re ready to leave these astrologers now, they will leave them. It is a question of their confidence in the service provided. The question is will this service not share their personal data? And it is very important. We provide only the infrastructure. We’re nerds in our system, you can create these things.

Today Facebook, where everybody is infected with tests, analyses your profile. It turns out that the personal information is leaked. We have passed some tests and is already being used plus your personal data is already linked.

It’s already being used for the Facebook company. This is a very big problem if this thing will belong to the only one particular company. We want to avoid having this happen, including ourselves. We believe that if the system is open, it will do much more than specific companies.

Can it get any worse? Everyone sits there and saves their data, maintaining the server. And here it is free and accessible. Just get your information and process it. For example, Facebook will not need to process this information anymore. It can just download.

Shake research data of those inputs and outputs are laid. For example, the fact that lefties are better programmers. Or that people, since such growth is more susceptible to insomnia. This is the research data that we collect only and others will handle it. They should be open.

But it will not be too comfortable forfraudsters? Let’s say this is the most accurate test. Now we invite people pass them and we know what to sell them. Like the ones old people who occasionally bought a placebo for a fortune. They are also psychologically treated for the most part. And here we get a more precise instrument.

Yes, it will be more accurate. And it can be done by people who want to use it for their own purposes. We just to do everything openly. If these things are exposed, people will know that such methods exist. Sooner or later it will come to us. Now machine learning is developing rapidly.

How this might affect people psychologically? People will trust each other and strangers no more? Everyone will be afraid that someone finds out something about him and will use it…

And now people are afraid that someone will take a picture, find the profile by picture on the Internet and learn something. The whole world is moving toward greater openness and availability of information.

Are similar projects started somewhere else?

There are a lot of projects. For example, finances also have a lot of questions: if there is no control, whether it will be used for tax evasion? There are different problems, and it is a question of infrastructure, which is built around. The issue is in final services, that people trust or not. That is, the same as bitcoin is traded on the exchange, but there are people who trust the exchanges, and there are who not. This is not a problem of bitcoin, it gives the infrastructure, the ability to accumulate and process information about transactions without middleman, not as a mediator.

Are there today more special educational courses today for safety on the Internet, which teach what is right to do, what information to keep?.

Not really. The problem is not in the availability of courses, but in the demand. There are people who want to take courses in information security. Such people are very few. From the fact that there will be more courses on information security, people will not become more conscious in this matter. This Issue should be addressed at another level. Technologically, we have to give people an understanding of what data they provide, where they can lose their money. The blockchain is a young field. It all worked out, and a lot of problems is in the absence of regulation. Different countries have different attitudes.

If there are any results, what methodics help people improving something? Perhaps from the point of wage growth, when a person really begins to understand himself better. Their problems, pros/cons. Does it help?

Now we can only judge by feedback. We do not have enough data sets to accurately say that it helps. But we clearly see that people are working on themselves, leaving good feedback. It’s not always related to salary, but often they begin enjoying life.

What today’s psychologists, sociologists and astrologers say about the emergence of such techniques?

They are preparing for this and want to know what awaits them in the future because digitization changes a lot in all professions.

For example, there is sometimes rejection. They say: you are trying to take away our job, give information more easily than we do. But in general, those astrologers who are not about money, but about to make people’s life better, they are willing to work with us. The system need the most help from them in terms of interpretation. We can give some numerical data, but the text interpretation is needed to say, what is good for man or bad. In the end, there will be less people who just lead with hands and create something out of the head. The demand will flow to those who can conclusively say that we have tested it on some data and got these results.

And psychologists? Will a bunch of test that says a particular interpretation on the poll of million people will be shown that the accuracy is about 99%. Then why do we need a psychologist? Many HRs are doing just tests, got the result, took the book looked strings 0–10, 10–20 and so on. Will they remain?

If a person earns only on the fact that he can open the booklet and find a suppression of the two lines and read what is written there — this profession needs to go. They should be automated. But not all tests can be digitized. People’s feedback is important, the part of a living person. Giving the initial analysis we drop the opportunity to speak directly to the person.

That is, the individual approach remains?

Yes, many things even in combinatorics create a number of options that only a real psychologist can see. It is difficult to put it immediately into the system. We will not replace the man completely soon. And now it is very profitable to work with us.

Some new research may be done or you will use the old system tests, that already exist?

Any research can be carried out, for example to interview 10 thousand people, to know their feet size and diseases and to make a correlation. It is a question of hypotheses.

As far as today we live in terms of sanctions, can such systems become international? Still, the mentality affects people very much, not only the date of birth. Italians are different from Americans, Spaniards and so on. All the things in blockchain are apolitical.

But all of them are on the Internet — and it’s a website, an address, and you can always say “this we do not allow”

In bitcoin it is not. There is an address where you can download client source codes, but from the fact that America’s tomorrow will ban bitcoin, it will not stop working in Russia and China. You can prevent people from exchanging them. But technically, they will always find a way. All things that are associated with Blockchain, they will not have a center of decision-making, which depends on someone’s narrow interests, including political.

Such platforms will be able to create a rather large sociological questions. States will not be able to retain this data for themselves, they will be made public

This system should not store personal data. If someone holds personal data, it is a question for the jurisdiction in which he collects them.

Well, it may not be personal data and identity. I live in Russia and willing to fill out such a survey, not to mention from what city, how many years. It turns almost impersonal. Roughly speaking, we can discover, the Americans are 90% bad for Russia, or roughly 80% of the French like cheese. Some of these surveys, not of a political nature.

This is just the opportunity offered by the blockchain, and it does not depend on someone’s very narrow interests. If you take the world of business, all these sanctions — they interfere. It is unnecessary, even in the scientific field someone get blocked at conferences because of the policy. The blockchain helps the world to get away from these boundaries.

But what about government regulation? The blockchain wants to get away from the boundaries, but countries have their own borders, they will protect it.

Each Country has its’ own regulation. Now there is a lot of questions with bitcoin. Is likely to be regulation on the level of those services which put the data. But the system is good, because it has no specific affiliation to a certain country, a particular company or group of people. It allows you to store data.

But on the other hand, this is a good tool for manipulation, if we say that we live in the era of information war, the era of sanctions. Opinion polls show some picture of an area and show you how you can play very well. It’s also a weapon.

Weapons, that are accumulated in one place. A huge amount of information is accumulated in Facebook — what people think, including Russia, some polls results. Facebook data is now available to a narrow group of people who can use them for certain purposes, and they will do it. And when people find out what data they collect, there are always scandals. Now at Facebook there’s a scandal about Russian hackers that are trying to use dta. This problem is because of the closeness.

The openness will make the world easier?

It must lead to an improvement, about easier — I don’t know. That’s what I believe.

And what about the difference, the mentality and culture? Over time, this openness will erase it?

The difference in mentality with every year becomes less. Look back at 100 years ago.

That is, people are becoming more cosmopolitan?

My guess is Yes.

But 50 years ago we wrote letters by hand…and they went a couple of weeks

Was classified information in the USSR not so many people knew how to live in other countries. You could say that in America, people are hanged on poles — you can say anything. Openness makes the world a better place. But when openness goes from one center, for example, the same Facebook, it seems to be open, but these data can be manipulated, for example for revolutions. Any government is trying to block media — Telegraph was the first that captured, then it was a newspaper. The problem is that Facebook is controlled from one place. It has interested parties. I assume that the information in the future will be more reliable and less prone to manipulation due to the blockchain. It is unchanged, and if the data got there, there they are. No one can erase and say that Gorbachev did not exist. For example, 100 years ago it was possible to say that some never happened. The blockchain leads to the fact that even on a smaller scale this can’t be done. For example, we can say that the Bank now owes nothing, just because someone had access to the database, and it was lost.

In the end of our conversation, could you give some wishes to our audience?

First, I would recommend everyone to go to our website and check GetCourse for Human Discovery Platform. We are now conducting the ICO and it helps attracting people to the system, start tokens distribution. There you can try to explore yourself, learn about your wishes, and what you do not want. The most important thing, it helps each person to become better. So just try it.