Keith Huddleston
Jul 20, 2017 · 7 min read

Kindness in Regards to the Ill and Dying. . . A Debate?

I keep trying to stay away from politics. I see it as very nasty habit, but I keep getting pulled back in.

I was shocked to see that John McCain had brain cancer. But then I was even more shocked to see someone I know retweet the following from Holly Wood Ph D, :

Holly wood PhD has since doubled down with the following:

The person who re-tweeted the message is someone I know and love, so I felt the need to express why I felt this was not really okay. We had a long discussion about this over twitter DM. With his permission, I have lightly edited our conversation and published it below. [Note, there is lot’s of bad language, in particular the F word here]

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Him: I don’t hope he dies but I won’t really be sad if he does, if that makes sense

Me: There is a big difference between not hitting like for someone’s glorification tweet (silence) and actively being like “fuck that guy.” I would even be bummed if Assad or someone that level of genocidal had cancer.

Him: Yeah, but, “fuck that guy” I wouldn’t really be bummed I guess, considering the atrocities. I guess my stance is “sucks that they’re dying but, like, having cancer doesn’t exempt you from being a shitty person”. I really don’t like the idea that just because someone is dead/dying their shittyness should be forgiven/ignored Meanwhile, John McCain is remembered as a hero and a “great person” while POC’s get character attacked after being murdered by police officers. I think we just fundamentally think about this differently /shrug

Me: Well, just wanted you to know how I felt. haha. This really goes to core of my spirituality. Every life matters, no matter the mistakes. . . Whether a drug addict, or a politician who, because they were embedded in the Washington elite, went in for the war culture. Thought experiment: Will you feel bad when Obama is sick and/or dying? I think he is a war criminal, for example.

Him: I think there’s fundamental character differences that differentiate the two beyond being mutual war criminals. Will I feel bad? Probably not. Will I say “fuck that guy”? Also probably not. I think the difference is that, while Obama wasn’t particularly good, McCain is an honest to god piece of shit. I think there’s fundamentally less stuff for people to “forgive/forget” when he’s sick/dying, when compared to McCain. I don’t particularly like Obama that much, but I like him more than McCain, and I won’t deny a personal bias. I’m probably more likely to forgive people (for instance, illegal acts committed during a socialist uprising) if they align with my political orientation, but I won’t ask others to “respect them” because they’re dead. That last bit hits closer to what I’m trying to say. Sure it sucks that McCain is sick, but actively ignoring his problems and demanding that everyone flip a switch and “respect” him is bad. I don’t want him to die (preferably no one would ever die of preventable causes), but dying doesn’t give people a get out of jail free card. I probably would’ve been “sad” if I was alive when Stalin died, but I wouldn’t want people to “respect” him solely because he’s dying. I’m not really sure if I’m being clear

Me: You’re fine. Here’s where I stand though: nothing anything anyone says about McCain will change any policy. Both the tribe-R and tribe-D (or even this tribe-S [for socialist] splinter thing-y that would have been unimaginable when I was in college) are posturing in terms of signals to their tribe. But nothing in the material world changes by any statement. . . no magic powers here. (Also, no persuasion between tribes is really possible here). Your speech-acts can’t do anything about policy. They can only show manners or respect.

Him: I mean sure, I’d also agree with that to a degree. But I’d argue showing manners and respect is equally pointless in the face of the laundry list of problems with McCains character (or any person’s character)

Me: But that’s the point. We don’t deserve respect when we’re dying based on a list. And I don’t think that human worth is based on that kind of moral score-keeping. Here is my real question: what is your socialism based on other than a belief in the essential equality of human worth? I base my political philosophy, my actions in public, and my former 9 year career as a public school teacher on that basic belief in equal human worth. My specific thought on the matter is that we all have 24 hours in a day. Someone can be 1,000 times richer than someone else (keeping adding zeros), and likewise someone can be 100 times more moral. . . still you don’t get to have even 3 times more time in a day. Pain for equal injuries isn’t going to be 100 times more, etc. McCain is a person. He has held children. He has smiled at people. I want to see his life go on.

Him: I agree with you, I think? I don’t think he, or anyone, deserves to die/get cancer. But I also don’t think saying “fuck that guy” implies that.

Me: Sure it does. How charitable would you be with someone going “fuck that guy” to either your inner circle (family or friends) or like Bernie in the same situation.

Him:

A) not care/ignore/block the person if the medium is non-personal (like social media)

B) debate civilly about the issue if it’s related to policy

C) specific to my inner circle, if the issue is valid (aka: your dads an asshole and here’s why), I wouldn’t take personal offense to it.

Or if it’s invalid I would just ignore it. I’d also argue that social media situations and real life situations function differently in this regard. In real life, I’d be (and am, I believe) equally charitable to anyone I interact with, regardless of political affiliation. However, I may refuse to associate myself or interact with those I deem incompatible with my views. But I’m not going to go up to McCain and take a shit on his porch because I don’t like him. I’ll post a few tweets about how he’s a shitty person and I don’t feel particularly bad he’s sick. I don’t think socialism’s “all humans have value” is rooted in interpersonal relationships between individuals. Do I have to be charitable with a person who thinks blacks should be eradicated off the face of the earth? Should i be charitable with someone who murders people? I don’t think so. Should society at large? Yeah, under the law I think genociders, racists, and murderers should be treated equally, but I don’t think people shouldn’t dislike that individual after they get sick/die. If my dad beat me when I was a kid, I wouldn’t feel bad if he got brain cancer. I wouldn’t give a eulogy about how great of a person he was. I would go to the funeral, sure. But I’d also probably post on social media that he was a real piece of shit. Hell, I would do that in person if it came up in conversation. (None of this is true, just a hypothetical). Do I hypothetically wish my dad has/got cancer? No. But having cancer doesn’t excuse someone from being a shitty person. And I’ll treat him like a human when/if I interact with them.

Me: I think the only bright line you got on who deserves to live on not is a servant of the billionaire class. He’s not really a direct murderer or advocate for the extermination of races. My bright line is not one many people have, in practice, but it is that all people deserve to live.

Him: That was meant to be hyperbole and not directed s McCain but a person in general. And I too, think all people deserve to live.

Me: It seems like a mirror version of you could argue why a drug addict who, I dunno, steals, doesn’t deserve universal basic income,or healthcare, for example.I really think it’s the same mental contortion: “that person’s not in my tribe, fuck that person. . . I’ll come up with a reason grounded in my moral system if pressed to.”

Him: The key difference, though, is that I don’t/wouldn’t apply my moral individualistic and interpersonal feelings in a governmental standpoint. I think Nazis and racists should get healthcare. I don’t think Nazis and racists deserve to have a positive interpersonal relationship with everyone they come in contact with. Governmental action =\= personal beliefs. Sure the logic is the same, but a governmental body and a random individual should not and do not behave the same way/under the same rules. I hate John McCain. I also hope he survives. I don’t think those are mutually exclusive I think Nazis are horrible people, but they also deserve livable wages and healthcare just like everyone else.

While our conversation was going on I also had some action on twitter:

And

(That is not to be construed as Holly Wood replying to my tweet. She was not). And, lastly,

I wrote How to Respond when the Leftist You Love Accuses You of Policing Them as a companion piece.

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Keith Huddleston

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Truth, beauty, agape, and the dao. Seeking to do more with less requires understanding.

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