But what if they don’t have any interests…

The age-old question of unschooling (aka, interest-driven learning) // How interests develop

This is part 3 of a series on math learning in unschooling (part 1, part 2)

One of the major reasons why families decide to unschool their kids is to give them freedom to explore their interests. Here’s how that’s phrased on Why Unschool:

“Unschooling is an educational philosophy which holds that all children are born with a natural and insatiable curiosity, and that people learn best in non-coerced, self-directed situations. Unschooled children and teens choose which topics to learn and when, with encouragement from their parents, and without a curriculum. In other words, learning occurs when the child is engaged and interested in a subject that they themselves chose to study.”

A key element here is that students “choose which topics to learn” because they are “interested in a subject”.

But what happens when students struggle to choose a topic to learn or would say that they’re “not interested in anything”?

This post is about how interests are discovered and nurtured.

In grad school, I took a class on informal learning with Dr. Brigid Barron. This course was a bit off the beaten path for me because, at the time, I was much more interested in how learning happens in formal environments like traditional classrooms in college prep schools. But this class introduced me to new ideas about how learning happens in places like robotics teams, Girl Scout troops, museums, and even the grocery store. And now, here I am, years later, in a world far away from traditional college prep classrooms, exploring the wonders of learning in self directed education. (Thanks Brigid :) )

Here are some of the papers we read in that class:

— Seventeen reasons why football is better than high school

— Intrinsic motivation in museums: Why does one want to learn?

— Youth activism as a context for learning and development

Recently, I revisited Dr. Barron’s work by reading a paper she wrote, titled “Interest and Self Sustained Learning as Catalysts of Development”. This paper walks through the interest development process using several case studies of students developing interests in technology and pursuing those interests through self directed learning. These students primarily directed their learning outside of school, but there are clearly applicable lessons for students who self direct all (or the majority of) their learning.

How interests develop

Step 1: The Spark!

Interests develop from some initial enjoyable / meaningful / intriguing spark.

When students have an initial positive experience with a topic, they may be interested to explore that topic more. The positive experience may come from a conversation with a friend, watching a movie or documentary, going on a field trip, watching someone else enjoy something, or trying a short, hands-on activity.

Exposure to lots of different topics, places, ideas, and perspectives is essential. We can never know what will spark a lifelong love in a student.

Recently, a student at my school shared a video on artificial intelligence (AI). He thought it was hilarious that a robot taught itself how to write handwritten notes, convinced its creators to connect it to the Internet, and eventually took over the world. This initial fun introduction led to further group discussion on AI in our world and which students had tried making robots before. It turns out that only a handful of the students had tried either robotics or coding, and a few others (largely girls) had phobias of technology because of past bad experiences. But they were all willing to try a short robotics project, so last week, we started building robots using Hummingbird robotic kits. One girl, who had previously professed her lack of skill with technology, came in the next day exclaiming how much she had enjoyed building the robots and how technology wasn’t so bad after all. She took a chance on an activity and found a new potential interest.

Another example: One day, our school visited another ALC that has younger kids. It was a cultural exchange of sorts. Our teens organized chess lessons and drawing stations, and their students shared their favorite games with us. At some point, we played Taboo, which requires a fair amount of reading, decision making, and acting. I was on a team with a little girl who was maybe 5 or 6 years old and who couldn’t read very well. Needless to say, she was not very much help in playing Taboo and she was keenly aware of this. After the game, she pulled me aside to show me something on a whiteboard. She pointed and said, “Look. I’m practicing my letters. I’m learning how to read and write”. She was motivated to try a new skill because she saw her friends using that skill to have fun.

Note: In the second example, the student provided her own spark. She saw a skill that she wanted to develop and went after it. This sometimes happens and is certainly what we want for self directed students. However, in some cases, like in the first example, teachers/facilitators/coaches can help activate the spark. We initiated the conversation about robotics with students and suggested a possible robotics workshop. While students could have said No, they decided to opt into the experience and some found a new interest and skill.

Sometimes adults in SDE spaces need to help activate the spark in students by making suggestions, e.g. What if we try this? Would you want to read more about that? Have you ever considered learning more about …? I think you might enjoy trying …, would you be open to that? Students can always say No, but sometimes they need adults to pose options they might not have noticed, so they can say Yes.

Here are some resources to spark student math interests:

— Math storybooks (and more) (so students can hear/read fun stories of how others used math to solve problems)

— Math camps have amazing activities to use during group game times

— The ViHart youtube channel (the doodling episodes could be especially intriguing to any artists)

Step 2: Connecting to Self Identity

This point in the paper was a real eye-opener for me. It’s not enough that students are exposed to something or even that they have fun trying it. I’ve had fun doing lots of things that I’d never do again.

So what helps students make the leap from “that was fun” to “I want to explore this further”?

A connection to their identity (i.e. how they see themselves). How does this interest fit into what already interests them? How does this connect to what they already value?

Students decide that a potential interest is worth pursuing because they see how it fits into their existing identity.

In the previous example, the little girl will pursue learning to read not just because she sees her friends having fun but also because she wants to have fun like them and with them, but she can’t until she learns to read better.

The girl who enjoyed trying out robotics could decide that it was a fun activity and not go any further. Some might say that it’s enough that she now believes that she can do “techy stuff”, even if she doesn’t decide to further pursue this activity. On the other hand, she might see how her skills in coding and robotics could help her connect with classmates that enjoy tech or somehow be useful in her future career interests, and decide to pursue robotics further. Time will tell.

In Dr. Barron’s paper, she tells the story of Jamal who saw that learning to make websites could be a lucrative future business venture for him. He likes the idea of himself as a successful businessman, so he decides to build these skills now in order to make this business idea an option for him in the future.

With respect to math, sometimes SDE students are motivated less by having fun or exploring, and more so by feeling “behind” their peers. Maybe they saw a neighbor kid that goes to public school doing a set of math worksheets that they didn’t know how to do, so they get concerned about their math knowledge and decide to pursue learning fractions (or whatever skill) so that they can “catch up” or “keep up” with their peers.

But further exploration of math can be triggered in other (healthier?) ways. In SDE, we often talk about how students naturally practice math when they want to tell time or help with cooking, for example. Some say that this informal math exposure is enough, but let’s say that you (like me) disagree. While you’re in the kitchen cooking with a student and you notice them struggling to scale the fractions in the recipe, you might offer, “Hey, what do you think about us spending some time later to practice with fractions? So that next time we cook together, you can feel more comfortable with them.” Knowing that (a) you all will get to spend more time working together, (b) they’ll be more helpful in the kitchen, and maybe (c ) they’ll improve their math skills so Grandma will stop asking them about it, could be the motivation and identity connection that they need to further develop their math skills in a positive context.

Step 3: Access to Learning Resources & Opportunities

Even when a student decides that they are serious about exploring a new interest, it can still fall dead in the water, if they don’t have access to resources and opportunities to pursue that interest.

Imagine a student that wants to create cool VR experiences but doesn’t have any VR equipment. Or, a student that wants to learn Hindi but doesn’t have anyone to practice with.

While there might be workarounds for these specific examples, the point is that:

Access to resources (human, physical, financial, and digital) and opportunities (time to work, classes, trips, workshops) are essential in nurturing a student’s interests.

Here are some resources that allow students to develop their math knowledge in hands-on, engaging ways. They can be used in any order, which fits with the nonlinear learning approach of unschoolers.

— Montessori math materials (DIY, for purchase — These usually come with a set of problems or you can find sets that align from Education.com)

— Melissa and Doug toys (for numbers, money, time, shapes)

— Natural Math (guidebooks for parents/teachers to do short math puzzles/activities with students plus helpful, mathematical questions to push student thinking)

— Nrich (open ended math problems that are ripe for group discussion. They have problems for all skills and ages. Solutions included.)

Step 4: Having success

The last step (or, perhaps an ongoing step) is that a student has continued success in their pursuit of their interest.

During the initial spark, part of what makes it a positive experience is that they have some amount of success, even if there are struggles along the way. They can read their first letter. They can get the robot to move. They can make something appear on their web page.

There must be something at each stage that shows the student that developing this interest into a real skill is possible for them.

Then, over time, having ongoing success means that they are able to do more and more complex or useful work. They can read sentences and then paragraphs and then books. They can navigate the robot through a maze. They can build their own website.

If they ever hit a wall that is too impenetrable for too long (e.g. for lack of resources or time to pursue it further), they will stop. Maybe they will pick it up again later or maybe they will leave it there and move on.