We can find open minds…
What follows is the transcript of a discussion in response to the above image, posted by me, on my personal Facebook wall. “Sister Mine” truly is one of my siblings. She is the most extreme of my immediate kin, who are all fundamentalist evangelicals. Most of my Facebook friends who responded to my sister’s egregious white extremism are authors and writers and teachers. The exchange is rather long and often difficult to read in its intensity. However, I hope readers will follow the discussion to its conclusion. I promise, it will reward your perseverance with wisdom, hope. and encouragement.
SISTER MINE: The office of President of the United States should be respected, the world today has no idea of what that world means!
When obama was in office I didn’t like it one bit! HOWEVER, I was taught growing up, it doesn’t matter if you like the man in office HE IS STILL OUR PRESIDENT and you are to RESPECT THE OFFICE AND THE MAN IN THE OFFICE!!!!
I can’t remember EVER people being so disrespectful in my life! Not just to the President to each other, to our country’s history, Disrespect in the highest forms! This country needs to get back to the basics and FIND JESUS!!!
DENISE: Sister mine! How dare you talk about people being disrespectful to a man who brags about pussy grabbing, defends F*CKING NAZIS and demeans everyone in his wake, attacking even his own bootlicking Beauregard! Respect is something earned and he has thrown it away again and again and again, ad nauseam! It’s downright sinful to support an evil racist, sexist, lying fascist who is the antithesis of everything Jesus Christ ever said or did! How very un-Christian of you. Shame on you.
You need to sit down with your Bible, read every word of Jesus life and teachings and actually get to know Jesus yourself! ICYMI, Jesus was born a Middle Eastern Jew; he healed the sick and showed love and empathy for everyone; he also challenged the wealthy and the powerful, and protested corruption.
When did it become a bad thing to stand against white supremacists and nazis? When did you decide to betray the sacrifices of every American who fought and died to defeat the nazis?
ICYMI, an American woman died, on American soil, resisting white supremacists and nazis — murdered by a self-proclaimed, American-born nazi! And that stinkhorn fascist-in-chief said the people standing against NAZIS were equally bad! Anyone who agrees with him, aligns themselves with nazis too!
Pay attention, sister mine! The only people he will defend are Putin and the alt-right supremacists. You are defending a traitor who is culturally and economically brutalizing the nation. For God’s sake, put down that Koolaid! Sadly, I’m certain you’ll delete your comment and demonstrate that you lack the courage of your convictions challenged! Still, I hope you’ll prove me wrong and broaden your mind beyond the mammonite false teachings you’ve swallowed.
THOMAS: Trump is a step back to the 60’s . Making ignorance cool again. What would Jesus do? He would protest against Trump.
DENISE: Well said, Thomas. Most of us Christians understand that the first thing Jesus would do is to protest and stand against white supremacists. Heck, even atheists know that!
Diane: Respect is earned, not just given and #45 has done nothing to earn my respect and need I remind you of the hateful disrespect Donald Trump showed President Obama simply because he was black! If you’re gonna talk the talk, let’s walk the walk! Trumps latest act of pardoning Joe Arpaio a well known racist in AZ, tells us where his head is and I will NEVER recognize that man as my President!
DENISE: Well said, cousin Diane
JENNIE: I was also always taught to respect the office of POTUS if not the man holding it. But to hide your head in the sand and ignore all the signs that this man is misogynist, hate-spewing, racist, creepy slime who is not qualified to hold the office…He has also ruined our credibility throughout the world even with our allies, and I fear he will lead us into war.
DENISE: And will have our sons dying for his wars! Well said, Jennie.
JENNIE: Diane, don’t even get me started on the pardon! That is the kind of thing you do when you want to sweep something under the rug — release an announcement on a Friday evening when the country is concerned with the hurricane. Which should have been his major concern, too. What was being swept under the rug?
DENISE: IKR, Jennie!
DIANE: Jennie, [that was a] despicable act. I think he should move to Russia….be Putins right hand man…he’d fit in perfectly there as the racist, misogynistic horrible person he is! The decent people of AZ did not deserve what he did and to do it in the way he did, no guts! He knew full well he was going to pardon that animal when he was in AZ, but being the chicken & person he is, waited till he left and all he had to say to the people of Texas that were awaiting this hurricane was “Good luck”! Again, nothing but loathing from me!
DENISE: Diane, my sentiments precisely!
SARAH: Patriotism is respect and loyalty to our country and NOT to the president. That is something earned whether or not a person actually voted for them. This president has done nothing to earn respect, and he has actually done everything to lose respect.
DENISE: Sarah, I couldn’t have said better!
GUTHRIE: “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism” Thomas Jefferson. True patriotism means STANDING UP for our AMERICAN VALUES of tolerance, respect and human dignity as Trump tramples on them. History will remember those who RESISTED and PERSISTED!
DENISE: Thank you, Guthrie, for your eloquence. Blessings.
JANE: Trump is disrespected because he is the worst lying, cheating, greedy, ignorant, unqualified person ever to run for president, never mind be elected. All his criminal activities will soon become public knowledge and he will be gone before his term is over.
52,000 mental health professionals have signed a petition for his removal on mental health issues. In other words he is also nuts.
DENISE: Jane, it boggles the mind how anyone cannot see the truth you frame so succinctly. Thank you.
LAURA: I seem to recall a lot of disrespect hurled at Obama including even questioning his birthplace (by Trump actually). Trump has done illegal and unethical things as president that is bordering on fascism. By the logic of just because he’s president, we should respect him, people in Germany should have respected Hitler (including the Jewish people he was exterminating). Also, should be noted: the U.S. is a secular country. It’s always been a secular country and that is part of its history. Jesus should not be injected into politics. Also, BTW — Trump is not really someone who follows in the path of Jesus anyway.
DENISE: Well said, Laura! The outrages that man has perpetrated is brutalizing the world!
RENEA: Having a serial adulterer, racist, reality-game-show host with a string of bankruptcies behind him, who literally has no idea what he is doing AND he his hands on the nuclear codes, as President of the United States is so unbelievable, so unprecedented that I don’t think respecting him is what is called for. I think praying that our American democracy survives it is what we should be worried about.
DENISE: You’re absolutely correct, Renea! How about respecting our constitutional democratic republic? How about respecting every American who laid their lives on the line to fight the kind of bigotry and oppression and cultural brutalization the stinkhorn comrade is now perpetrating agains the nation and the world?!
RENEA: My loyalty lies with the United States of America.
MILLIE: I respect the office of the President…It is my right and every Americans right to protest! Many who voted for him wanted change….They wanted less government interference? Wanted more jobs? Wanted to be safe and secure? You can not run a country like a business! Companies are there to make a profit thus lower wages, more autobots to replace humans, less benefits, hire and fire at will, destroy the environment all for the almighty dollar…..Wake up. Trump is “using” the office of the President to put monies into his own business…..while hurting the innocence…..
DENISE: Millie, you’re 100% correct!
SANDRA: Sister Mine [w/misspelt surname], with any other president in recent history, your reasoning might apply. In this case, what we were taught about the office and occupant does not apply. Our parents and grandparents NEVER conceived of an Oval Office squatter like the current occupant. As such, we have to work out how we feel about, respond to and regard this one ourselves. We’re on our collective own.
You may not have agreed with Former President Obama’s policies. Maybe you even objected to the color of his skin like so many others. That’s fine. You have that Constitutionally guaranteed right as an American. Regardless of how you felt about him, however, Former President Obama comported himself with grace, poise, dignity, calm self-possession, compassion, fairness, decency and an amazing work ethic that is an example to all children. He treated others with the same courtesy, respect, and human decency with which he wanted to be treated, precisely as Christ instructed. Were all of his decisions perfect? Probably not. No president has made the correct decision every time. What he did do was learn all he could, listen to expert advisors and make the best decision he could for ALL of us as a nation. Obama never put the wishes of a foreign adversary before the citizens of this nation, and he never encouraged hatred, bigotry, misogyny, descrimination, oppression or persecution of anyone on the basis of race, culture, nation of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity. He did not place the greed of the superrich above the survival of the poor. He could disagree with politics opponents to his policies without guttersniping insults or despicable behavior regardless of the behavior of those opponents. More simply put, Obama earned the respect of the nation as a man, he lived up to the respect due the office, and he abided by the Oath of Office he took at both inaugurations.
Trump, however, is an entirely different matter. For his entire life, trump has espoused deeply held racist, misogynistic, bigoted beliefs regarding various groups of people because that is who he is and what he believes. His entire campaign was a study in first eliciting, then stoking, the most craven fears and divisive resentments ofthe lowest common denominator of specifically targeted segments of the American population for the purpose of preying on them and using them as a weapon against others because that is who he 8s and what he does. He then went on to make false and impossible promised to people who are truly suffering fully aware that he was lying through his teeth at every turn. Trump made up false statements about the economy and everything else every time he spoke because he’s obsessed with erasing every trace of an African American president, not because he objected to Obama’s policies or actions, with the sole exception of anti-discrimination policies. Half the time he had no idea what he was talking about. If you doubt that, ask yourself what issue or policy he ever spoke at length and in detail about. Name one. He wasn’t concerned about the American people, just dog whistling the ones he needed. Why? Because without them and a victory, he had no chance of lifting sanctions on Russia, the Bank of Cyprus, and Deutsch Bank. That was the goal. He called Hillary Clinton corrupt over a speech to Goldman Sachs executives, then appointed them to his Cabinet, some of the highest positions in the nation. Drain the swamp? No, flooded it with sewage.
He has, by word and deed, made a concerted effort to normalize and legitimize white supremacy. So much so that he betrayed his oath of office to do so. Former Sheriff Arpaio defied the Constitution of the United States and was sanctioned by a Federal Judge charged with enforcing the Constitution. He defied that judge as well. He was charged and convicted according to Federal law for his actions. By pardoning him, Trump acknowledged his guilt, and Arpaio confirmed it by accepting the pardon, despite the fact that the normal process was not followed at all. In doing so, Trump has defied and disregarded the very Constitution that he took a solemn oath to protect and defend! What’s more, he did it when a national disaster was bearing down on the nation to hide from the criticism he knows that his action merited out of cowardice.
Trump has alternated between behaving like a petty, spoiled, ill-mannered juvenile delinquent and a pompous, hateful bigot from the beginning of the campaign. Being inaugurated has not improved him, it has only magnifies who and what he is as a person. Sadly, he has proven to be the humiliating embarrassment to the nation that so many expected him to be. Far from “regaining” world respect for America (which Obama had already done) he as deeply eroded it and made America the laughingstock of the world.
Trump, by his own words, actions, lack of character, integrity, decency or concern for the entire nation rather than just his core base, has poured battery acid on the honor and respect due the office he holds…and he did it with full awareness and disregard.
Finally, Trump raised disrespect for the Oval Office and it’s occupant to an art form, especially during Former President Obama’s tenure. He is now in no position to demand what he would not give or cry over disrespectful treatment he so lavishly dished out. If he couldn’t handle being treated the way he treated Obama, Trump should have thought about that BEFORE be ran for office, and he should do so before every word he speaks and action he takes everyday. He’ll never be free from some criticism because everyone will never agree on everything. He can, however, eliminate the worst of it by simply refraining from behaving like a megalomaniacal, self-serving, incompetent, narcissist with delusions of grandeur and pretensions to dictatorship.
The supporters of a president often follow his lead in behavior and comportment. That has happened, and you don’t like it. I get that, but I think you should take your argument to the source INSTEAD of demanding that people respect the source of it. As long as we have a president who never mastered the basics of respect, courtesy, decency and regard for the Constitution, the rule of law and ALL Americans, getting back to the basics is highly unlikely. He can’t stop lying on a daily basis to everyone and sunder which is the ultimate disrespect of the American people.
As for finding Christ, may I suggest that you read the Gospels again, particularly the teaching and actions of Christ? Christ summarized the ten commandments into two simple instructions: 1) love the LORD with all your mind, body, spirit and strength, and 2) love your neighbor as yourself. Trump only remembers the LORD when HE shows up on the teleprompter. Trump treats others with contempt, disrespect, disregard, carelessness and inhumanity on a daily basis. I would also add that even Christ demonstrated righteous indignation when money changers turned the temple into a shopping mall & currency exchange, and he wasn’t polite about it, either. Christ never hesitated to call out the unacceptable behaviors of the chief priests, Pharisees & Sadducees (religious & political leaders of 1st Century BCE Israel). Christ was consistent and steady in doing so and condemned their behavior when called for. Much of what you call disrespect is expression of outrage and disgust at Trump’s behavior and misuse of the power and position he holds. Just as you are entitled to your opinion of and dislike of Obama by the Constitution, Trump’s critics are entitled to the same. I would also point out that speaking out against hatred, racism, corruption, nepotism and flagrant disregard for the Constitution he promised to defend and protect is not disrespect. It’s called speaking truth to power, and doing so follows Christ’s example.
DENISE: Sandra, thank you so much for your fulsome eloquence!
RICK: Sister Mine, I appreciate your recognition of the idea that the OFFICE of POTUS should be respected. In the military, service people are taught to salute the RANK, not the person. Important distinction. If an officer gives an order that is not respectful (think male officer/female subordinate) or, if the officer’s CONDUCT or INTENTION embarrasses his rank, the officer is not due the respect his rank would otherwise require.
So while in theory what you say is true, IN PRACTICE, if trump’s words or actions denigrate or embarrass THE OFFICE, he loses the cover of your argument.
When he spews hate, supports groups or individuals who represent values contrary to America, or when his PERSONAL ACTIONS insult or embarrass, or are disrespectful of the OFFICE of POTUS, he can’t then say: “YOU must respect me and the office, but I don’t have to.” It doesn’t work that way.
DENISE: Well said, Rick
ROWENA: I am no longer amazed at the “conditioned” mindsets that protect and hold Trump up to a special set of standards that defy & deny what is actually being said and done to other men of a higher character by him and his cabinet. The veil has been removed to reveal this tendency is also seen in many churches across the land where people look at the Pastor as the Savior instead of the Christ. If you don’t read and understand the Bible you will easily miss it to believe and hear something that feeds your temptations. That being said, there are thieves in both temples tonight…so it is to be expected. Look at Trump himself: when you look at his fruits, he was [accused of] sexual charges involving a minor and a host of other egregious crimes & is not fit for that office. In a court of law or public opinion…anything stolen is always supposed to be returned with interest and restitution. If you don’t see him as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, there is definitely something wrong with your view of moral values. A person must be judged according to his fruits and not his title. A true Christian leader is a servant leader, and it is clear Trump serves no one but himself, his family and his “peers”. No amount of brainwashing can make anyone deny they hear and see his vile actions. Last to say no man has ever been as disrespected as the that man, then you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself “How did you miss what they did to Obama and his family and what the treasonous faux president is doing everyday that we live. This would not be tolerated by anyone else especially President Obama. No matter how blind people are about his true character, he will continue to reap what he sows. It is the law of nature and of the spiritual realm.
DENISE: I agree, Rowena.
ROWENA: When you get down to it…it’s the battle between good and evil…you will only see what your heart allows…truth or a lie. life or death
SISTER MINE: my last name is [corrected surname in angry all caps]! Next all of you spouting what Jesus stood for and what you THINK He would do, let me just say this, I know my Lord would LOVE everyone, He would not approve of what you all stand for, and the HATE you represent!
SISTER MINE: DENISE [she employed my full given name plus my maiden name and my actual surname], who are you to say someone is or isn’t a Christian or judge me? My Bible teaches me “ judge lest you be judged” everything your judging people about including our illustrious President you, according to the Bible will be judged on…. also, do you live in the USA? Well guess what? President Donald Trump IS YOUR PRESIDENT, sorry to be the one who tells you this, however he is… if your a citizen of the GOOD OLE USA he IS YOUR PRESIDENT….
He is RIGHT the white supremacist nazis AND the people standing AGAINST Thea groups ARE ALL RACIST AND HATE GROUPS! Stop taking what he said out of context! He was saying that the people who stood against these people were JUST AS BAD AS THEM because they are ALL HATE GROUPS! He is FAR FROM A TRAITOR!
And lastly I want to ask YOU PERSONALLY 2 questions,
1.) We were raised by the same parents, went to the same church with those parents and taught in that same said church that homosexuality is a SIN, an ABOMINATION BEFORE GOD, That Bible you told me to go back and read teaches us that MEN ARE NOT TO DRESS AS WOMEN, A MAN IS NOT TO LAY WITH ANOTHER MAN, and WE ARE NOT TO HATE! So when did YOU start believing anything different???
2.) You have been heard to have said, as did some of the actors in Hollywood “ If Trump becomes the President I’m moving to another country!” I believe you said you were going to Germany, well he’s been elected, so WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? Let me answer the last question for you! BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE YOU CAN EXPRESS YOUR OPINION WITHOUT BEING PERSECUTED THATS WHY!
President Trump won the ELECTION STOP WHINING AND GET OVER IT!!!
SISTER MINE: Teressa [a friend of Sister Mine’s since childhood] would you like to PLEASE Add your feelings on all of this
SISTER MINE: Sandra my last name is spelled [corrected surname in angry all caps]! And you are just as much of an ill informed person as I’ve ever known…. just like a liberal
SISTER MINE: Rick my name is spelt [corrected surname in angry all caps], and while I respect what you have said I have to disagree with you, President Trump has done nothing BUT show his patriotism he always has… then there is obama, who REFUSED to produce his birth certificate showing him to be BORN in this country! The paper he did produce shows him as a Hawaiian bc his mother was Hawaiian, his father however is NOT AMERICAN! Read the facts on this, the VERY same things POTUS Trump has done obama did while in office and no one said a word! Case and point the travel ban….
I will say this, you as an AMERICAN have the right to say and believe whatever you feel is right, and though I do not agree with you, I will defend your right to do so….
SISTER MINE: Renea so let me get this right, you don’t like President Trump because he is an adulterer? Well seems to me that we had that in the office once before under the name of clinton…… HMMMMM I guess bc he is a democrat it’s ok…. HMMMMMM, you also mentioned bankruptcy, let’s see why don’t you look up the MANY MANY MANY SUCCESSFUL men who have filed bankruptcy in the past, J.C. Penny is just one that comes to mind, he filled bankruptcy 5 TIMES before his business took off….. HMMMMM and then there was Ronald Reagan, whom I feel was one for our GREATEST PRESIDENTS EVER was an actor prior to becoming a senator and then PRESIDENT…..HMMMMM and then you have obama who sat for less than a year and ran for president who had NO EXPERIENCE ITHER…… at least none to speak of….. So my dear when you say all you’ve said you must remember everything not just what you want to…..
SISTER MINE: Diane
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
SISTER MINE: Diane
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
DIANE: Sister Mine meanwhile he tweets about how great he is and he’s headed to Missouri! He’s a joke!
SISTER MINE: In response to those of you who say President Trump had no reaction to the Hurricane, 1st when Louisiana flooded during the election campaign where was your “ wonderful killary? And 2nd go look at his twitter account…
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
[Image capture of a Trump Tweet]
DIANE: Sister Mine again, bravo! 👏🏼 👏🏼 he’s still a joke!
DIANE: Sister Mine, here’s a little bedtime story for you about your hero.
DIANE: Sister Mine, where was he Friday when the hurricane hit, oh yeah, he was pardoning a criminal! This is the 3rd day of the hurricane and what these poor people have endured and he’s now tweeting about it Sunday night. What a humanitarian he is!
TERESSA: This is a sad case of seared and hardened hearts here on this thread.
Let me first start by not even mentioning the President Of The United States. I’m going to talk about the decaying of our values and our rotting, putrid corpses of family and faith.
The children being ‘raised’ today and young adults are disrespectful, lazy, self-absorbed little asses! The idea of chores and working for the benefit of the family is beyond them. They are taught to disrespect parents, teachers, authority and anyone who dares to hold them accountable for their actions. For the last 20–25 years we have allowed our children to run roughshod. No longer do we take the word of authority but the word of the child over authority. We are raising spineless, it’s all about me, worthless excuses for humans.
Now here we are a couple decades of psycho babble parenting and the watering down of faith.
The Left has made LGBQrstuv…..whatever….gender fluid, cross dressing, be who you wanna be, boy, girl, man, woman, it, he, she ,they,…..and on and on.
A woman’s lavatory is not sacred anymore. Men can put on a dress and trespass!
Pussy hats, pussy costumes where your head is the clitoris, nasty women…this is your idea of changing what you believe to be an affront to your ideals of who the people of the United States put into office? This is a rhetorical question but if you want to answer go right ahead.
The watering down of our tenets of faith and what the Bible clearly says is an affront to God. His nostrils burn with the garbage of a new type of Christian ‘beliefs’.
The angry cries of ‘oh, lets not vet these people who want to come to the United States’! The war on terrorism will be fought here on our soil in 20 years! Your children’s children will be beheaded for their ‘faith’ whatever that may be …….
Oh, and lest I forget about antifa, BLM and all the other militia type groups springing up for ‘change’! Burning, tearing up universities, beating others that don’t believe as ‘they’…you…believe! You agree with this shit? Go ahead and bring up that idiot that mowed down folks that he didn’t care for their ideology. He’s no better! Far left, far right they are all scum!
I refuse to be force fed your new ideology. First off apply for government positions to affect change. Don’t wear masks and hoodies to beat it into me.
I have worked hard for what I have! I dare anyone to take what I have put my callused hands to to come and say because I’m white I need to apologize!
Start a grassroots effort for scholarships in the poor communities! Open your houses up to single women and their children! Teach children to read! Beat the streets to stop crime whether it be black on black or gang crime!
Just leave me out of your agenda!
DENISE: Teressa, I’m sorry she brought you into this because I know how completely she has disguised her true self from you.
No one here is force feeding you an ideology. As for your “concerns” I will point out that every perspective you shared has been repeated debunked by actual statistics. For example, white on white crime and white on black crime is statistically far and away more prevalent the “black on black” crime.
You don’t seem to realize that what people are demanding is NOT a handout but for an equity of opportunity. My husband works hard for everything we have too. He did everything right. He’s a naturalized citizen. He graduated from college on the National Dean’s list. He worked his way through college, graduating with not one thin dime of debt. He speaks six languages. Yet, he’s relegated to working in the service sector taking all the abuse of people who think he’s not deserving of living wage. As immigrant family, we have a community of hard-working immigrant friends, and I can tell you that my husband’s story is NOT unique.
As for AntiFa — you do realize that “AntiFa” literally means “anti-fascist,” right? When did it become a bad thing to resist fascism?
As for BLM, yes, it means “Black Lives Matter,” but it does NOT mean that white lives don’t. It is a plea, a reminder that “Black lives matter TOO!” Just like Kaepernick kneeling reverently is NOT disrespectful nor unpatriotic. Since when did kneeling in supplication become disrespectful? Don’t you kneel in supplication when you pray?
As for bathroom access — I’ve got news for you. As long as there have been public facilities, you have been sharing them transgenders. We peed in our locked stalls and never cared to know what jiggly bits the person in the locked stall next to us may be sporting. Those transgenders were there to pee. They were never interested in you. No one is trying to force you to make yourself accessible to transgenders. NEWSFLASH: Transgender women are not sexually attracted to cis-gender women (that’s you). The people you’re worried about are CRIMINALS. Criminals do not obey the law. What makes you think another law is suddenly going to make them decide to obey laws they’ve never obeyed before?
As for homosexuals, their lives are not your business. No one wants you to marry a lesbian. No one wants you be friends with a gay couple. No wants you to attend a gay wedding. All gays want is to be left alone to live their lives without your intervention and oppression.
As for the generation you condemn as “disrespectful, lazy, self-absorbed little asses! The idea of chores and working for the benefit of the family is beyond them. They are taught to disrespect parents, teachers, authority and anyone who dares to hold them accountable for their actions.” I’ll point out that they are demanding respect for all people. Far from being “lazy,” they are devoting their activism with their labors, their hearts, their money, their time with a ceaseless dedication, “working for the benefit” of themselves, their families, and for all humanity. They are demanding respect for all of God’s people, wherever and whomever they may be. They are working in their communities and around the world to be the good stewards of God’s creation, fighting the destructive stewardship by corporate America. Open your eyes, Teressa: the generation you condemn is more energized and working harder than any generation since The Greatest Generation. And, they are doing more to uphold and respect the victories that Greatest Generation fought and died for than any generation since.
It saddens me that your own heart is so hardened against the very hopes The Greatest Generation wanted us to respect. ICYMI, The Greatest Generation were the republicans of the 1956 GOP.
DIANE: Teressa, I agree with some of what you’re saying, but when you have a president who thinks and says out loud that grabbing a woman by the pussy is ok and even condones it and he himself is a blatant racist and continually condones it on Twitter. I refuse to go back decades to believe that lesbians, gays and transgenders choose, but will continue to believe they are born the way they are born just like anyone else. I have worked hard my whole life too, but just because my skin is white, I refuse to feel entitled, I choose compassion and love for all people including gays, transgenders and people of different color, race or religion because the god I believe in loves us all and does not consider any of us freaks! Hope you have a wonderful day!
SARAH: Sister Mine and yet you contradict yourself with saying you “know” God would not “approve” of what we are standing for. God is not American, nor does he stand when our national anthem is played, or salute to anyone. You say that your Lord loves everyone. I agree with that, I believe that OUR Lord has joy and pain for ALL his children. You ask who are we to judge. I agree with that. Yet then you say you KNOW that YOUR Lord does not approve of what we stand for and judge our stand as hateful. In this I believe you could not be farther from what I believe to be truth.
SISTER MINE: Sarah if you think OUR Lord approves of lgbt PLEASE go back and reread The Bible….. go ahead we will wait…..
SISTER MINE: Diane Since you apparently don’t know how twitter works, look at the 1D 2D and so forth next to his tweet…. he has been tweeting his concerns SINCE BEFORE THE HURRICANE MADE LAND FALL…. go ahead and look 👀 we will wait….
DIANE: oh boy, you certainly got me there and you’re right, I’m not on Twitter….Happy not to be. You have a wonderful day as well.
TERESSA: Denise, firstly, Sister Mine and I have been friends for 37 years. I know her inside and out. I know her shortcoming and her strengths. I have chastised her many times over the years and she has accepted those chastisements with with grace and self abasement. She has never been hateful or disrespectful even when I was harsh. I never shouted at her during those conversations but was firm but loving. Yes, she has had many personal issues made public by certain people who hold animosity toward her even to this day.
Let me tell you I am very much aware of the prevalence of crime and race. Memphis is indicative with other major cities in the United States. I worked in the correctional setting for many years in the medical field and saw first hand the percentage of race and crime. 90 percent of our inmate population were black with the other percentage white and mixed. A lot were ‘revolving door inmates’. Mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, grandchildren all came in and out of those sally ports. Generations of families following families. I saw neither black nor white when they saw me. Old black woman who killed her own grandchild and hid him under a pile of dirty clothes all the while the cops were searching neighborhoods for this child. A black nurse refused to treat this old woman due to her crime. By the time I found her she was in an extreme emergent state. The officers called the “white nurse” because they knew me and my heart.
Let me tell you this straight up, I do not condemn lesbians, gays and the like. I have family that is gay and let me tell you I love them! What I get angry about is the demand for pissing in a bathroom where I am! To clear this statement up….that law has heralded in an ability for perverts to enter said bathroom and (not transgendered) enjoy their perversion. I.e….child molesters…! Anyone that has an ulterior motive!
Antifa…..oh let me tell you about anti-fascists! They are in fact fascist! What a conundrum! Communism, socialism is in fact what antifa wants. Everyone equal. Take money from the rich and give to the poor. Everyone on an equal footing. Bullshit! Bernie Sanders and George Soros, they’re both damned idiots and need to go to a socialist country and live there! Find out the hard way how socialism works! Bet you can’t speak your mind in those countries huh?
Oh the young adults! Let’s talk about those nuts! Still living in their mommas house, 20 somethings with no drivers licenses, no car, no job….why because they don’t want to start entry level jobs! They want what they want NOW! If I can’t go to this college I’m not going! Staying in their bedrooms and playing video games! Momma and daddy paying for everything! Yes, there are good young folks out there that demand more of themselves than that but you can bet there are loads of others that don’t have the backbone for hard work!
You think I give a rip about Kaepernick? He can do whatever he damn well pleases….it’s a free country isn’t it? You have a right to speak your mind but you also have to think of the repercussions…..
Amazing you even equate the greatest generation with this one!? Damn! It’s an oxymoron to even think it! Demanding respect? Damn right they’re demanding respect! I’ll give them NONE! You don’t go around in masks and hoodies, piss and shit and throw it on people you don’t agree with! You don’t exile family members when their beliefs are not yours! My mom is democrat! I don’t give a rip who my mother voted for! She is my mother and I will damn well respect her!
As for your husband….I have heard nothing but good things about him. I don’t care where he came from! I have met him and he is such a gentleman!
Obama even demanded vetting but no one said trash about him!
What of Clinton? Were you appalled he had his penis sucked in the Oval Office? I don’t hear anything……….
DENISE: Sister Mine, your first concern is to rage over your misspelt name? Really?
As to your egregious and illiterate commentary:
First — I never wrote that you were not Christian. I wrote: “You need to sit down with your Bible, read every word of Jesus life and teachings and actually get to know Jesus yourself! ICYMI, Jesus was born a Middle Eastern Jew; he healed the sick and showed love and empathy for everyone; he also challenged the wealthy and the powerful, and protested corruption. “
However, to the point of your claim “I know my Lord…” Do you? Our Lord did not discriminate and stood against hate Himself. Do you equate his resistance against corrupt leadership unto his own death equal to the powers that killed him? Again, I admonish you to sit down with your Bible and read the words of Jesus’ life and teachings.
Second — Hitler was the duly appointed Führer of Germany, including of the SIX MILLION people his regime murdered, and including the tens of millions of conquered and oppressed peoples over whom his Nazi war machine rolled. The Greatest Generation hated his evil regime of racism and bigotry — they fought and died to defeat him and his regime. Were they equally evil for standing against the Nazis? Did the people of Germany and those conquered lands owe Hitler and his government respect? Would Jesus have fought with the Nazis or the Allies? Will God judge the Nazis and Hitler or the Allies who resisted them?
Third — doubtless you choose to disbelieve the reams of proof that he stole the election with the help of Putin and the Russians. You excuse even the bare bald proof, provided by Don Jr. himself, of Russian willingness to collude and the intent to collude of Don Jr, Manafort, and Kushner. You excuse all the ramifications that led to Flynn’s resignation. You excuse Gorka for wearing a white-supremacist lapel pin in Whitehouse photo-ops. You excuse Miller’s rabid racism and anti-immigrant vitriol. You embrace Bannon’s philosophies, even though he himself claims to be a Leninist out to destroy the institutions of democracy. Doubtless, you’re unbothered by Trump’s own words bragging about sexual assault. I’m sure you blame the more than a dozen women who came out and said he did exactly what those tapes claimed.
You brought up Clinton’s infidelities. NEWSFLASH: No one defended his infidelities then or now. I will also point out that of all the people identified by victims in the Epstein case, Clinton was NOT among them. But, Trump was identified as the rapist of three children between the ages of 12 and 14. The testimony from those children was deemed valid to help convict Epstein — but you probably say those children, accusing him now as women, are lying.
Fourth, that you condemn those resisting racism, bigotry, fascism, and nazis tells all the world where your loyalties stand. When did you decide it was wrong to stand against white supremacists and nazis?
ICYMI, I know your racism, “dear” sister. Or, have you forgotten that your first question to me about my amazing Middle Eastern husband was, “Does he wash?”
Fifth, your selective Biblical literalism is showing. Let me remind you, my most promiscuous of sisters, that the very same passage condemning homosexuality as an “abomination” also likewise condemns sexual immorality such as your own. That same passage also condemns those who divorce to death, my four-times divorced sister. That same passage that says men are not to dress as women also says that women will not dress as men, my pants-wearing “good” woman. It also says you’re not to lay with another woman’s man — don’t try to defend this with lies. That same passage condemns eating seafood, my crab-legs loving sibling. The same Bible you claim condemns abortion actually commands the priest to FORCE an abortion on an adulterous woman in Leviticus 5.
I stand against bigotry, racism, sexism, misogyny, oppression… these things are evil. The Bible is clear that we are to stand against evil. I hate evil. Why don’t you?
As for leaving this country, we are trying to prepare for that eventuality for the safety of our child.
You remember him, yeah? That beautiful black-eyed boy who has been called “terrorist” by middle school bullies. You remember, that little boy who raised more money for the American Heart Association than any other elementary school child in the state? The one who was threatened that Trump will send him and his father to the concentration camps or to the gas chamber by middle school bullies. You remember that church going, community volunteering, technology phenom who committed himself to the Lord five years ago? The one who was assaulted and sent to the emergency room with serious concussion from which it took eight months to recover? Do you remember your nephew, who right now has a schoolmate online calling him a terrorist?
Maybe you remember my hardworking, naturalized citizen husband? The one who graduated on the National Dean’s List? The one who speaks six languages? The one who has always worked long, hard — honest hours. The one who people walk up to and tell him they want someone else to serve them because they won’t “do business with you people?”
Tell me, am I wrong to stand against that hate? Am I as bad as those racist, bigoted haters because I stand against them? Should I remain under a regime that has made it abundantly clear that my family is not wanted? You demand to know why we haven’t gone. We haven’t gone because corporate America has made wage-slaves of our family. The only thing keeping us here is that we cannot financially afford the move — American citizens aren’t on the list of refugees… yet.
Finally, this is not the first time you’ve pulled this. For over thirty years, you’ve put on the mask of revelation and redemption, skeezing your way back into your siblings’ lives, over and over and over, ad nauseam, ad infinitum. You trot your dog and pony show out for our parents who desperately want to believe you. You whine and cry for them about how mean we, your sisters, are being because we won’t let you back in. Our parents convince us to give you another chance. I/we open the door… hoping… praying… “please, Lord, please let her be sincere this time.” Every single time you drop your mask and show the blackness of your heart.
You did it to Dawn again and again and again, ad nauseam. You do it to Deborah. You’ve done it to them on Social Media. You’ve done it me over and over, even when I was the one defending you all those years we grew up together. I will always pray for your true redemption. I genuinely hope for your true salvation.
HOWEVER — Let me be clear. We are through. Never contact me again.
DENISE: Teressa, You do not know her. You do not know her betrayal of you. I will not tell you because it is not mine to tell. She will not tell you because you are her dupe.
Your commentary and refusal of actual recorded statistical facts is a billboard of your own delusions.
TERESSA: Denise then IM me.
TERESSA: Denise IM me
DENISE: Teressa, her betrayal is yours to discover. It is not mine to tell. I have no pictures. I have only what I’ve been told within the family and no reason to doubt them. I cannot send you to the primary source because she is deceased. Neither am I foolish enough to believe you will accept my word. I’m sorry for your delusion. I don’t believe she will ever tell you the truth. I’m not sure she knows how to even recognize truth.
TERESSA: Denise my issue is not with the mainstream folks wanting change. My issue are the subversives on both sides making the ones doing it the right way making all others look bad.
DENISE: Teressa, how can white supremacists and nazis ever be “doing it right?” The issue is with drawing an equivalency between fascists and anti-fascists. AntiFa showed up with clubs and signs and sheets of ply-wood for line barriers to defend themselves against torch-bearing heavily armed white supremacists in riot gear. The alt-right rally attendees showed up with torches, military-grade weapons and ammunition, and their own riot gear. Do you seriously compare that to AntiFa’s clubs and line barriers? Did you realize the catalyst to the violence was an alt-right white nationalist firing one of his guns into the air? Did you realize that the police SEPARATED the groups to different locations. The clash was over. They funneled the alt-right rally members to another park by themselves. They funneled the counter protestors to a downtown pedestrian mall. It was in that pedestrian mall, among ONLY counter protestors that the nazi murderer decided to mow down the peaceful protestors.
There was no equivalency. Nazis are unmitigated, unambiguous evil. Resisting unambiguous evil is the easy part of doing the Lord’s work.
TERESSA: Diane, I haven’t called anyone freaks! And I’m not ashamed of my race either. One thing I won’t do is bend to others beliefs. I remain aloof and away from people because a lot folks are complicated and divisive. I’ll not be a part of it. I am neither for you or against you when it comes to your belief system. What angers me is the insanity I am seeing on tv and elsewhere. I have huge issues with Trump! Huge issues with the Left! I’m appalled at the insanity I’m seeing. …on both sides! Drop the craziness with the last four or five presidents! I have issues with all of them! I see as a devils advocate. The hate and the divide with both sides. So sad yet so infuriating. I think my main issue is the disrespect then the anger come! I have to regroup and see through your eyes. Very difficult but doable. I see your disquiet and the pain of others but don’t shoot an innocent police officer that can’t go home after his shift! Don’t beat up white kids because he’s there! And white! Don’t shoot a black man that’s complying! You see, I see it all and I’m done with it all! Take care lovely lady! You are so kind and you don’t even know me! Thank you!
TERESSA: Denise boy do I agree with you there!
DENISE: Teressa I’m glad you’re open to trying to see our perspectives. Most of us protesting and resisting are doing so because we are living the dangers we’re warning against. We know it’s true because it’s happening to us. I do agree we must get back to the middle because our government by committee (that’s what democracy is) can only function properly by the majority middle. But, we have been conciliatory towards the wrong-headed ideologies for too long. We have not helped them heal the insanity and sin of their racism, misogyny, and bigotry. All we ever did, as a nation, was to quiet them.
It’s been doubly worse since LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. That was when the GOP decided that power was their defining goal and they crafted Nixon’s Southern Strategy to acquire all the old racist, confederacy-loving former KKK-justifying democrats by giving them dog-whistle issues they could rally around. That stratagem is how the republican party of Lincoln became the party of the KKK. That stratagem is why the KKK and the white supremacists left the Democratic Party. That is how the evil of racism was masked.
Those dog whistles opened the door for the bigots to get in bed with the church and to subvert the evangelical movement. It dovetailed so well with the growing trend of “prosperity gospel evangelism” — fancy word-play for mammonites. A whole movement that says if you’re godly enough, you’ll be prosperous if you just do this and give to the ministry; but, you can’t tell folks that they’re still struggling because they didn’t believe hard enough. So, it became and understanding that if you’re not prosperous, it’s because someone else is blocking your prosperity, taking what should be yours. So, the Body of Christ, admonished to take up the cause of those in need, suddenly is helping blame poor people for being poor, for not being godly enough to be prosperous. While the wealthy gain wider and wider income disparity and the corporations report record-breaking profits year after year — as everyone else works harder and becomes poorer.
I don’t have to condone another’s life or beliefs to defend their right to dignity and equity of opportunity. That is the fight. That’s what we’re protesting, what we demand. That is the right of every American, of every person.
SISTER MINE: Denise, I will be sending you a PM because there are things that just shouldn’t be broadcast on social media….
I will say as for my divorces yes I have been divorced many times, however if your going to put personal information on social media pleas put ALL THE INFORMATION…
My divorces were for reasons, as you stated about homosexuals none of anyone’s business!
Please feel free to think or believe whatever you would like about me that’s what so great about America you have that freedom!
Just because you don’t agree with what I believe or vice versa is no reason to throw and sling mud, as I stated I will PM you with my response to this vile answer you have written
DENISE: Sister Mine, I will not answer an IM from you. I told you. We are through. Carry your dog and pony show back to our parents. They are desperate to believe in your sincerity as only self-deluded parents may be.
TERESSA: Denise I think the issues we’ve been talking about are by far so interwoven and utterly intricate it’s hard to even pick one thread before another one changes the pattern.
We, as all Americans want what the United States was founded on. However, it became perverted by covetous and power mongering men. Decade upon decade of money swapping hands and the good ole boy system. It’s never about ‘the people’. It’s about power and perversion. I am not upset about the people rising up and demanding change….on either side. I’m upset that grown folks are being violent about the violence! It makes no sense! There is alway middle ground with peace! I would come and fight for you! I would open my house to you! Color doesn’t matter ever to me! Your fight would be my fight! No beating up others with bats and throwing hazardous waste on folks!
I grew up in Germany and Japan where I never saw color! I came here and was thrown in the lions den of hate!
A black woman working at Fred’s as a cashier heated me because of my color. I slowly befriended her. I was kind in her sneering disregard for me. I remained so with every bit of dislike she had until one day she smiled! She smiled at me!! We actually did it! We were friends! I picked peas and greens for her. I took her a second jar of strawberry jam so her grandchildren could have more for thanksgiving. I wept bitter tears when she died.
You see, I see so much! I know too there needs to be change….only do it the right way…..
DENISE: I agree about the right way to do things… in peace when permitted. We have not been permitted to continue in peace. When the evil shows up armed to the teeth, preaching our destruction, would you have us not be ready to defend our lives? Our children’s lives? I would never advocate that we raise arms. But, I cannot and will not condemn those who do so in defense of the innocent and oppressed. I agree we must always caution peaceful resistance, but when the evil is on your doorstep with military-grade arms, how could I advocate that you just stand before their firing line without defending yourself? I would take a bullet to save you. I would fire one to save my child.
SARAH Sister Mine and yet you say you believe God loves all of us, that includes people of all sexual orientation. Your INTERPRETATION of verses from the bible, what humans wrote, not God, despite saying God spoke to them and through them to write the bible. I don’t believe you have any say in the matter as far as telling anyone else what God does and does not approve of. I think God may be far more disapproving of your condemnation and judgement of others than He ever would be of who people love.
SARAH: Teressa, you really should read and research the beginnings of Antifa in Germany in the 1930’s before condemning. Violence is always bad, yet Antifa(actually includes ALL people that are anti-fascist and is not an official “group”) does go along the theory of whatever it takes. I see people condemning LGBTQ because of bible verses, yet in the same breath condemn movements like Antifa because they condone violence, of which the Bible is full of story upon story of the righteous and oppressed overcoming through violence. Fascists are here, on American soil, ready in a moment to overtake God’s righteous children in a heartbeat with and through acts of violence, and speech in and of itself can be violent in it’s affects. I do not condone violence in any form even when I can understand the source of people’s anger. Antifa is not a fascist movement. There you could not be farther from the truth unless you are on the side of the very fascists Antifa stands against.
RICK: Sarah et al- Isn’t it hilarious that the rightwingnuts don’t like it when we call them “fascists,” yet they belittle us for being “Anti-fascist”!
So if they reject anti-fascism, what does that make them?
DENISE: Rick, sharply pointed question and much to the point of this entire discussion. If you defend fascists by making false equivalencies, while condemning anti-fascists, then you are a fascist. It’s a real simple, clearcut choice: Either you are against the alt-right white supremacists and everything they stand for (i.e.: white nationalists, white supremacists, the KKK, fascists, nazis, et al)… Or you are one of them.
SARAHA: Denise, agreed. Denial is worse than silence.
DENISE: Sarah, I would ask them all, “What greater sin is there than to know what evil is and that it is being done in your name, but to turn a blind eye to it for your own self-interest?”
TERESSA: Rick, interesting when both alt groups are dangerous and a bunch of damn idiots! If you condone violence on either side then all of you deserve each other!
DENISE: Teressa, again, you’re drawing a false equivalency. What you are saying is no different than saying The Greatest Generation’s violence against the nazis is as evil as the nazis’ violence against the Allies. If you cannot see that, you lead yourself down a road to sitting in silence or condoning fascism — just like all those “good people” of Germany who sat back while the nazis killed six million people and oppressed tens of millions more.
In our modern scenario, AntiFa is the French Resistance. Do you believe the French Resistance was as bad as the nazis they resisted?
TERESSA: Ok guys, let me get this straight….you condone your violence while condemning the alt right? What I’m saying is I strongly CONDEMN both! I detest the alt right! They’re a bunch of white trash, interbred racists!
DENISE: Teressa, the alt-right are beyond hate-mongering and even beyond war mongering. They are #EvilMongering. And, while it’s not completely accurate to say we “condone” violence at all, it is equally valid AntiFa is defending our American Ideal and the worth and value of all humanity against the #EvilMongering of the alt-right.
Even Jesus acted in righteous violence against the corruption in the temple surrounds. And, again, you are equating people defending what is right and good and godly to people who are #EvilMongering.
DENISE: Teressa, the president of the United States of America has abrogated the defense of our people and our Constitution, to instead defend the fascists from whom he should be protecting the nation. On top of that, the “leadership” around him are moral cowards and will not step into the breach he abrogated. So, please tell us all, then… Who do you think should take up the defense of life and liberty and equality for all?
TERESSA: Oh no I’m not! Violence is violence and all of it is unacceptable in my eyes! Both sides spew vomit if they accept violence as a way of making a statement to get their point across! I would listen harder and stronger if there was dialogue.
You guys get me completely wrong! I detest both alt left and alt right! If I am beat over the head in order to take up one side or the other then I refuse to even hear any of these folks!
I am a loner! I don’t trust people and never will. They are complicated and divisive! I do better one on one. I will, however, hear and listen hard to what you say! I see your plight! I understand it! I hurt because of it! BUT I WILL NOT ACCEPT VIOLENCE!
Don’t you guys get it? My goodness it’s crazy to go to a designated place to kick ass and burn buildings because they don’t want someone with different ideas than them to speak! I think Milo is a nut! But let him speak!
DENISE: There is no “alt-left,” Teressa. That is the drum-beat propaganda of the alt-right trying to cast themselves as the heroes. They named themselves the “alt-right” through Bannon and Breitbart.
ICYMI: There were plenty of “good people” in Germany who agreed with you and “[refused] to even hear any of [those] folks.” Plenty of “good people” in France heard and listened and saw the plight of nazi oppression and chose to do nothing — some of them even chose to report against the French Resistance, especially in Vichy France; after all, the French Resistance employed violence in answer to nazi violence too. Remember, the violence in Charlottesville broke out when a neo-nazi fired off his gun to make his “free speech” point. I’m sorry, but there is no safe place to sit this out and cast judgement on everyone who resists the #EvilMongering.
Think on this: An American citizen, on American soil, while resisting nazis, was killed by a nazi, and the nazis are right now calling that a “justified kill.”
And yes, Milo is every bit as much of a “nut” as was Hitler. Would you “let him speak” too?
TERESSA: We are not in a declared “war” as in WWII. We are not in the 1940’s. Do not equate the Hitler regime and the Jews with what is happening now. The opposing sides are not combatants in war. Maybe you see a “war”. I, in fact, don’t. I see it differently. There is enough senseless killing going on in the streets. I won’t have a part in it. By my standing back and letting folks kill each other unnecessarily, is not standing by. I choose to let everyone kill each other if that what you guys think you need to do. Count me out.
….and yes, Milos crazy butt has a right to speak!
DENISE: Teressa, America did not exist to have a declaration of war against the British Empire; that didn’t stop them from resisting; neither did it stop those brave Frenchmen who joined our resistance which gave birth to this nation.
The French did not have a declaration of war when they threw off the tyranny of the French Monarchy. The French Resistance had no declaration of war in Vichy France — and “good people” there reported on the Resistance because they fought violent nazi oppression with violence in kind.
The Civil Rights Movement was largely peaceful, but still had its own violent elements who answered their government’s violent oppression with violence.
Yes, we can fully equate the rise of the Trumpian ideologies with the rise of nazism. Read the warnings from people who lived through it. For the last two years, historians and WWII veterans and Holocaust survivors have been telling us that this is exactly how Hitler and the nazis came to power. And that people then, just like you are doing now, made justifications for condemning protestors and resisters. Heck, go to the library and read about the rise of nazism after WWI. As I did, you will see the inescapable correlation for yourself.
And yeah, you’re right. “We are not in the 1940s.” THIS IS SO MUCH WORSE.
This is nazi ideology in the highest echelons of THE MOST POWERFUL nation ever known, with THE most deadly and THE MOST POWERFUL ARSENAL EVER conceived, and with the best trained and THE most powerful army in the world, all in the hands of that lying, cheating, sexist, racist, bigot, fascist, misogynist, #EvilMongering narcissist, psychopath-in-chief who has already demanded to know why we cannot use our nuclear arsenal!
Consider this: An American citizen, on American soil, was killed by a nazi while resisting armed AMERICAN nazis — again, on American soil. And, those same armed AMERICAN nazis are calling her death a “justified kill” in recorded video and audio, and in written articles and commentary all over the place. Those alt-right #EvilMongers have been openly calling for a race war and giving directions on how it “must” be done.
You, in your sheltered white privilege accorded to you by them, have been protected from their #EvilMongering — but only so long as you keep up those false equivalencies against those “not-white” or “not-white-enough resisters.” I am one of those “not-white-enough” because my heart loves a heart that beats in a “not-white” chest. My son is “not-white” at all because his Persian father is “not-white” to the alt-right white supremacists. Just yesterday, my son was called a terrorist and threatened by an online bully.
Concentration camps are already here. Arpaio himself called his tent city prison compound a “concentration camp.” The immigration detention centers amount to internment camps — just like the Japanese Internment Camps in America during the WWII era.
Please open your eyes, Teressa. From what I remember of you, you are too good and too kind not to see the rising tide of evil threatening to sweep over this nation. It will inexorably roll over people like my little family first, but no one will be spared. Yes… WE ARE AT WAR. We must always hope and pray and call for peaceful resistance; but we must not deem resisters drawn into violent defense to be the same evil they defend against. This is a fight for the survival of our democracy, for our lives, our liberty, our human dignity, and equality for all. There are no sidelines.
WE ARE AT WAR for our very survival. This is a fight for our democracy, for the survival of all us — This is a war for not only our own survival, but for the survival of all humanity.
RENEA: Another problem with the false equivalency is that if an anti-fascist is violent towards a Nazi, it is because they only want to stop Nazis, however, the Nazis and White Supremacists want to kill black, brown, and Jewish people. That is SO not the same. So, “let them all kill each other” only works until they are done, then the Nazis are coming after your brown, black and Jewish friends and whoever gives them shelter.
TERESSA: We are in 2017! By God if a damn nazi kills an innocent person then he will pay a heavy price. I hate the alt right as much as you do. That does not excuse you if you kill them. You will go to prison along side his nasty ass.
Bearing arms to protect your life and property is a far different story than going out there marching in the streets, shooting guns, destroying homes and businesses, setting fires,blocking traffic, and beating on their hoods and windows! If I am an innocent person going about my affairs to get a gallon of milk and you or they block my car and beat on it and yell at me scaring me with harm….I will press down on my accelerator and move those folks out of my way! And please don’t bring up that inbred nazi!
I have a right to go about my daily life without the intervention of fools both trying to suppress each other!
A regime is people trying to suppress the free speech of others. I don’t like it anymore than you do. But they can say and do as much as you can say and do.
But to threaten the lives of others and kill is terroristic and I won’t tolerate it!
RICK: Teressa, AntiFa doesn’t counter demonstrate with intentions of violence.
-Which side fired a gun?
-Which side used a car to run down demonstrators?
DEFENDING YOURSELF from violence is called “self defense.”
But I reiterate Denise’s point:
NO ONE WANTS VIOLENCE.
But NOT fighting evil because of the possibility of violence by the fascists is tantamount to being bullied into silence.
Is THAT your position?
DENISE: Teressa, the regime is here. The regime is the party in control of our government. At the self-same time those nazis were given their free speech in Charlottesville, Trump’s own bootlicking Beauregard was sicking the DOJ on an anti-Trump website, demanding their millions of followers’ IPs and personal information. Just before those nazis had their free speech in Charlottesville, the GOP committee chairman, on behalf of that same bootlicking Beauregard, had a woman arrested and jailed for LAUGHING during his confirmation hearing. Around the time those nazis were exercising their protected free speech, that same bootlicking Beauregard said that LGBTQ people are NOT protected by civil liberties legislation.
Those people invaded Charlottesville beginning in early July and kept increasing their numbers in what amounted to an occupation of that AMERICAN city. What happened a month later was the culmination of AMERICANS liberating their city from nazi invaders. Those armed alt-right rioters, in their own riot gear, exercising their protected free speech, were NOT from Charlottesville! What would you have had people do? Should Americans have stood by while fascist invaders took over a free, democratic town?
You condemn some resisters for defending themselves and the majority peaceful protestors with clubs and sheets of plywood in the face of armed-to-the-teeth, torch-wielding nazi invaders who had occupied that town for over a month.
By God, it IS 2017! It’s downright sinful that this country has forgotten how to clearly identify evil. We should have learned to recognize the difference between evil and those fighting evil.
You can sit home in your “safe” delusions and keep silent, enabling that evil, just like all the “good people” in nazi Germany and in Vichy France stayed silent. Just like “good people” of the WWII era said “this is the 20th Century” and convinced themselves the evil before their eyes could not be real. Their delusion did not erase the evil that saw half a million Americans, more than fifty to eighty million allies die exchanging violence with fascists. Their delusion cannot erase the more than six million innocent human beings incinerated like refuse!
That is how Hitler and the Nazis, Mussolini, and Japan were able to grind humanity under their fascist boots. “Good people” said it couldn’t be true, or they drew false equivalencies, and they sat back while the horror raged across the world. Those “good people” may as well have loaded the guns and polished the sights and driven the tanks!
You don’t have to take up arms in this fight. You can let others put their lives on the line for your democracy, your freedoms, your liberty, your equality… for your simple human dignity. But, for heaven’s sake, don’t demonize them for fighting for you!
DENISE: Hear, hear, Rick!
DENISE: Right, Renea
TERESSA: wow! Demonized them!? I am NOT demonizing anyone! Again…..I am saying I will not go out there burning, hitting, punching, fighting! If you feel that need, go right ahead! But I’m telling you this right now….if that is your stance GO FOR IT! Your fight is your fight. Go for it again I say! Respect that as I respect the right for you to do what you’ve got to do!
Then why bring shit and piss in bottles to demonstrations? Why wear masks? Huh? What, just in case?……
Bullied into silence……shit…… I’m not bullied…believe me, I’m not, honey.
DENISE: Teressa, who are you kidding? You personally and repeatedly condemned the violence the resisters used to defend AGAINST the fascist rioters. You personally and repeatedly wrote that the two sides were equally wrong. You personally and repeatedly commented how they were the same. By personally and repeatedly equating people defending against fascism to be the same as the fascists they are resisting is categorically demonizing them. You lower the resisters to the evil of the fascists.
Again, the alt-right fascists have been calling for and doing all in their power to leverage the country into a race war. Again, the alt-right rioters came armed to the teeth and FIRED a gun to scare the resisters. Would you have had the resisters merely flee like frightened children? Or, would have had them surrender to the fascists? What would you do if you were peacefully protesting and the other side started shooting off their guns to scare you?
And yes, they counter protesters were peacefully protesting — that includes exchanging rhetoric even when it’s shouted. And yes, peacefully protesting INCLUDES standing your line when fascists try to push you aside. When the fascists started swinging their own clubs and brandishing their guns, what would you have had the resisters do?
TERESSA: That scumbag that killed that girl deserves the harshest treatment the law can hand down! I damn well know terroristic threats and calls to kill people are not covered under free speech! If you put a video online to kill white folks and cops, you are fair game for imprisonment! ANYONE, ANYONE who makes a statement to bring harm to others deserves what they get!
Did they find the guy that shot that gun?
LAURA: Teressa — not just terroristic threats — face-to-face insults are not covered — and that’s what the group was doing en masse. If you’re marching with the KKK and Nazis, groups whose whole founding was established to systematically annihilate groups of people of certain religion, ethnicity, etc. — that violence is implied. “If you put a video online to kill white folks and cops, you are fair game for imprisonment!” And yet, cops are actually killing unarmed, innocent Black folks in epic numbers and are not going to jail. Maybe you should be more concerned about the people being shot than rap songs you probably actually haven’t heard all the lyrics to? Some of these people include 12 year-olds and 16 year-olds, BTW.
TERESSA: I’m CONDEMNING the VIOLENCE! It’s all militant behavior! WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Whoever perpetrated the first punch! If it was your opponent then I damn well would fight back! I would not have a choice! I’m not saying you’re wrong to fight back! It’s wrong to destroy! I’m saying it’s wrong to start the violence. But when I see a man with a Trump hat on and he gets beaten for it!? For the damn Trump hat or shirt? A man beaten and chased down the street when he was simply walking that street….by black men???? Yes, violence begets violence.
DENISE: Teressa, they have identified the guy who fired the gun and issued a warrant. The last I read, they had not tracked him down yet.
I agree that murderer should prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Yet, I doubt that will happen. The DOJ of this regime is not going throw the book at him, though I expect some token sentence.
You’re correct: hate speech and terroristic threats are NOT covered under free speech. And, that’s the driving truth that the counter protestors were defending. They were trying to shut down an unconstitutional protection of hate speech and sedition which the regime controlling this country will not do — because that sedition element of racists and fascists are the regime’s hard-core, immovable base. Sedition: that is ultimately what the fascists and white supremacists are guilty of.
DENISE: Teressa, PLEASE do not use a Breitbart report to condemn the resisters. Don’t do Bannon’s work for him.
LAURA: Teressa — “A man beaten and chased down the street when he was simply walking that street….by black men????” you saw this? I don’t recall reading this.
DENISE: Teressa, there is not nor can there ever be a comparison between resisters and the alt-right. The alt-right fascists are engaged in a long-game stratagem that specifically intends the absolute extermination of all not-white-not-their-kind-of-Christians and of any and everyone who stands with the not-white-not-their-kind-of-Christians.
DENISE: Laura, I researched it. It appears to have originated on Breitbart. At least, that is the oldest date of the story I could track.
LAURA: hahaha….of course.
TERESSA: Denise, I want to make this perfectly clear to all of you. The harm and violence done to black people is abhorrent to me. It sickens me to see them castigated and beaten and killed for no good reason! Those police that kill children and men are vile in my eyes! I have listened to Fannie, my mother’s friend, talk about the fear perpetuated on black people during her youth. I am sickened. I have a black grandchild that I fear for! He is the light in my eyes.
I understand your complex feelings on everything going on in this country. Please understand me on this. You fight the good fight! You go and demand change! You get it out there and you won’t tolerate the hate anymore! The segregation of education, the plight of all who are trodden down by the boots of bad men!
I have read what all of you have said. Yes, there has been no mincing of words on this thread. I applaud you all! I take what all you have said to heart. Your fears, your disdain, your..I’m not taking it sitting down anymore. I commend all of you! Accept me as I am. Teach those who are watching you. Take your stand and press on. That I can say that I respect it. It’s been a learning experience for me and I welcome it.
DENISE: Teressa, I know you’re heart. I would not have continued this discussion with you otherwise. I understand that you’ve held on through this engagement because you want to understand and because you are worried the violence will spiral out of control — we are all worried about that. We’re not happy about anyone on our side feeling they have no other recourse but to defend themselves by responding to violence with violence. I hope you will read the history of the rise of fascism before WWII. It didn’t just appear on the scene — and the parallels with what’s happening right now in our America are striking. I recommend you also read about Nixon’s Southern Strategy. And the rise of fascism and the resurgence of the KKK, as well as how they coopted swaths of the evangelical movement.
I will add your grandson to my prayer list and pray that you may be able to shield him kind of racist bullying from which I’ve been unable to shield my son. Please IM me his name.
TERESSA: Denise girl, you’re the best! Thanks so much for hanging in there with me! Every one of you, Laura, Renea, Sarah and Rick are saints to keep this going and not delete me. Shows a lot of courage and restraint. I am an old woman seeing the hate and not understanding it. I work hard here to make a home for my husband and family. I want to leave a legacy after I’m dead. For good, for sacrifice, for not seeing the color of people’s skin. It’s such hard work here on this farm. Hours of back breaking labor. I’m tired and then I see all the hate and I’m even more tired.
Bless you guys! Thanks again! ❤️
DENISE: Teressa, thank you for being open to our message. You have always been courageous and kind.
RICK: Teressa, So nice to have an open, intelligent “conversation” with an open-minded person.
This concludes the discussion. I, personally, am comforted by the proofs of Teressa’s open mindedness and willingness to forge through the cognitive dissonance to understand our progressive message and struggle. It also comforts me to know that there are sane and kind people trying to forge lives among sane and kind people.
Teressa, your willingness to be open minded and your wisdom demonstrate that there is hope and comfort in these turbulent times. Thank you, Teressa.