Interview with Hui Fan: AlphaGo may already have found a different beauty of GO that beyond human’s imagination （2）
Google DeepMind’s AlphaGo program triumphed in its final game against South Korean Go grandmaster Lee Sedol to win with final score 4: 1 on March 15th. This was the fifth game in seven days, in what was a draining, emotional battle for Lee. AlphaGo had won the first three, but Lee took the fourth game on Sunday. AlphaGo beat European Go champion Fan Hui in October 2015, but Lee was expected to be a tougher challenge. However, this beautiful and historical competition is significant because it marks the first time an artificial intelligence program has beaten a top-ranked Go professional.
Synced is proud to present this special interview with Hui Fan. In the interview, Hui Fan took us back to revisit the game he played with AlphaGo, as well as shared his perspectives on Artificial Intelligence and reflection on the meaning of life with the game of Go .
Synced: Have you ever played GO with computer program?
Hui Fan: Yes, it was about 10 years ago. A French team had developed a program called MOGO Go using Monte Carlo method, however, it was not advanced. At that time, a computer with Lyon server played against me based on a 9 x 9 board. It seemed that MOGO could “think” because the program began to run faster when we entered the critical moment. Unfortunately I lost one, during the first 3 or 4 games, at the very beginning, I was not familiar with the smaller version of the board, but such as human nature, I quickly figured out the rules after the first two games. Thus, I pushed back and reign supreme.
Synced: Magnus Carlsen, a genius Norwegian Chess player once said that computer has its own decision-making program when it plays Chess. Do you feel the same way when you play GO with AlphaGo?
Hui Fan: To some extent, yes. Since I have already known AlphaGo is a computer, I have a sense of substitution that try to explain its every move as a computer’s calculating. However, there is less “tricks” (computer’s strategy) than I thought when I review the entire game. In fact, it is not a calculated move, sometimes it is just a mistake or bad move. Certainly, computer can also make mistakes.
Synced: Magnus Carlsen didn’t speak highly of computer’s playing style. From your perspective, do you think AlphaGo has its own playing style? Can you feel the beauty of GO from its playing?
Hui Fan: To answer this question, we need to understand the essence of GO first. For the past years, I have taught GO in different countries, and at the same time, communicated the Asian culture behind the GO as well as the oriental philosophy. In China, GO is a sport competition, a wisdom for devising strategies. Go is an ancient board game which takes simple elements such as line and circle, black and white, combines them with simple rules and generates subtleties which have enthralled players for millennia. Thus, from my opinion, GO itself is a simple game, simple but beauty. Because GO lends itself to a uniquely reliable system of handicaps, players of widely disparate strengths can enjoy relatively even contests. So what is beauty? The definition may vary from individual to individual. AlphaGo may already have found a different beauty of GO that beyond human’s imagination.
Synced: Do you think AlphaGo will make a significant change in the GO world?
Hui Fan: Yes and No. As a GO player, I think GO is a discovery rather than invention. It has been existed in the universe as always and you just happen to find it. We see it, explore it and try to understand it. AlphaGo can’t change the GO but may help people finding a better way to study it.
Synced: The significant difference between human beings and computers is that people have emotions. During the interview with Nature, you mentioned that the main problem is that human beings could make mistakes, could be tired, and could be distracted by the desire to win or the pressure from competitors. Do you think, in some cases, it will be an advantage someway?
Hui Fan: The two sides are engaged in a fight of spiritual strength, no matter it is a computer program or human intelligence. Human players may bear a lot of pressure during the competition, but sometime, the spiritual strength may also inspire your desire and confidence. The instantaneous power is unexpected.
Synced: AlphaGo is trained based on the big data which includes thousand games integrated with variable playing styles. It seems to be a teamwork. As a human player, do you think it is possible to have multi-players playing GO at one game?
Hui Fan: There is a GO game called League Game, which allows two players against another two at one game, or even three to three. Its sways makes the GO game fun to watch. However, since every players have their own styles and strengths, cooperation seems to be unrealistic and challenge.
Synced: During the interview with Nature, you stated that you are what you play. GO game is a portrayal of life. At this point, do you think AlphaGo has its 「Life 」?
Hui Fan: This is an interesting question. The performance you provided in the game is unintentionally impacted by your daily experience, your failure and desires. If AlphaGo has its life, it is likely a 「Wall」. What is the 「Wall」? It does not move. Everything will bounce to yourself evenly when you try to chase it or stress it, no matter it is bless or curse. No feeling is the description I feel about AlphaGo’s life.
Synced: If one day AlphaGo might go public, any amateurs of Go game could play with it, would you also want to try again?
Hui Fan: Certainly I do. It is not just me, every amateurs or professional players urge to play with AlphaGo. At that time, AlphaGo might look like the character Sai in Japanese comics Hikaru no Go . While exploring his grandfather’s shed, Hikaru stumbles across a Go board haunted by the spirit of Sai, a Go master from Heian era. Hikaru is apparently the only person who can perceive him, Sai inhabits a part of Hikaru; s mind as a separate personality, coexisting, and starts to play Go again. Urged by Sai, Hikaru begins playing Go despite an initial lack of interest in the game. He begins by simply executing the moves Sai dictates to him, but Sai tells him to try to understand each move. In the final, Hikaru turns to be a truly Go master. At the end of the story, someone asks Hikaru for his reason for playing Go. His answer is to link the far past with the far future. The Go spirit between Sai and Hikaru impresses me most. In the future, AlphaGo could belong to everyone. When you want to play GO, AlphaGo can always company with you, just as Sai is always behind Hikaru.
Synced : Assuming there will be a technology to connect human with robot by embedding chips into human’s skin (like some description in science fictions) , are you willing to equip yourself with it for faster calculating and advanced memory ?
Hui Fan: I might treat such technology with a more conservative attitude. I have read many novels and similar research progress, but I am not that into this concept. Players have a basic quality called control-ability, which means we tend to do things more controllable, not likely to do things beyond our control-ability such as trusting an uncertain chips.
Synced: After the competition between you and AlphaGo , the secretary of International Go Federation stated that rather than devalue the GO, there were more valuable aspects can be discovered in the future. Do you agree with that?
Hui Fan: I agree with her, actually I do hear some negative concerns recently. But I insist that the development of AI will be helpful to us rather than devaluing the GO game.
To Be Continue….
Original article from Synced China www.jiqizhixin.com | Author: Wei Zhao, Yunfeng Zhao| Localized by Synced Global Team | Localization: Angulia Chao, Bifei Liu, Rita Chen
