Interview of Mitch Altman on China.
Can you introduce yourself?
My name is Mitch Altman. I’m most famous for inventing TV-B-Gone universal remote controls, a keychain that turns off TVs in public places. I also co-founded Noisebridge, in San Francisco, one of the early US hackerspaces. I’m also one of the early pioneers of Virtual Reality in the mid-1980s. I travel around the world giving talks, teaching people of all ages electronics, and helping people start and run hackerspaces.
I was in Fab12, in Shenzhen, what do you think about the bring together Fabfondation and China’s Fablabbers ? Makers ?
China, like everywhere, needs supportive communities where people are encouraged to explore and do what they love doing. This creates opportunities for people to learn what they want to learn. It also creates opportunities for people to come up with ideas that can lead to unique, innovative products and services that are good for local economies. Hackerspaces are fantastic for inspiring creativity.
What are your thoughts about how the maker movement is currently unfolding in China ?
I’m excited that there is so much support for hackerspaces in China! As a result of all of the cool spaces opening up in China, there are now many opportunities for people to explore and find projects they really love. This reates a creative environment that empowers everyone to spend more time doing what they really like doing. Some of these projects can grow into products and services that can make a living for their creators, as well as for others who help. Some of these may even grow to be big.
It is important, as things proceed, that the focus is not on making money, and not on growing something big. Although these outcomes are totally fine, the focus needs to be on exploring, and finding things that are personally meaningful for their creators, otherwise there will be no creative environment for worthwhile projects to emerge. Only creative, worthwhile projects will be ones that others will want to pay for. Those are the ones that have a chance of making a living for the creators. Those are the ones that have a chance of growing.
Lots have been said about Shanzhai and Chinese’s Makers. Is it the same thing? Do you think that there is actual relationships ? Have you witness them ?
There is a lot of overlap between Shanzhai and hackers.
One difference is that hackers do not need to turn their projects into products or services. They do it for the sheer joy of exploring and creating.
Quite often, Shanzhai people are focused only on making money. Cool things have emerged from Shanzhai. Some have become popular. But if they explored more, as hackers do, and try things just for the joy of creating things, then they will find even more projects that could turn into even more worthwhile, popular products.
Today, more than ever, China wants badly to get closer of worldwide “makers” and work with them. What do you think about that?
I think this is very positive for everyone! The more people everywhere support and help each other, the better for everyone!
The maker movement is seen as an emancipation movement in the West. What is with the chinese’s economic pragmatism ?
Unfortunately, a focus on making money is limiting the amount of way cool projects that can emerge. This, in turn, makes it less likely that the projects that do emerge will be less exciting for others, making it less likely that others will want to pay for the resultant products or services.
If the focus can be aimed at the joy of exploring, trying, and being creative, then the projects that emerge will be much more innovative. And then the products and services that they turn into will be exciting for others, making it much more likely to make the creators (and those who help them) more money.
When I go to China, I kept being surprised about how vivid the production is there. What makers brings here and how can they participate ?
China is full of amazing resources! It is a paradise for people from China, as well as from all over the world, to create. There are parts for anything anyone would want to make. There are people who are really good at helping bring ideas to reality. There are manufacturers who can help create products out of projects, for those who want to make their projects available for others.
According to you, the Occidental’s and Chinese’s maker movement can go together?
The hacker movement is worldwide. Although all hackerspaces are unique, and some are very different, they all help each other. This is why hackerspaces are so cool and wonderful all over the world.
You are famous worldwide in the Maker Movement. How did you come to china to do the Maker Tour now ?
I’ve been coming to China every year since 2003 to manufacture my TV-B-Gone remote controls. In 2009 I thought it would be interesting for others to come to China with me so that they could see what China has to offer. So, I started organizing my annual Hacker Trips To China. We started by visiting manufacturers, as well as lots of the more normal, though spectacular, tourist places. I also gave many talks about education, economy, and how hackerspaces are fantastic for all this, and more. As people in China became interested in starting hackerspaces, we started visiting them on the trip. We also started visiting schools and universities. We give talks and presentations everywhere we go. We want to share our enthusiasm and our creativity, so that more and more people in China can benefit from exploring their own creativity. We help schools and universities set up hackerspaces as part of their curricula. We help administrators and ministers learn more about hackerspaces so that they can help their local economies and help give more opportunities for the people they serve. It is very exciting to see so many people around China embracing hackerspaces and benefiting from them.
Since 2012, the chinese Government have a global politic about the maker movement, in education and in industries. Did you take part in its creation?
The more I gave talks about hackerspaces, the more I got invited to give more talks. Hackerspaces are such fantastic resources for education, economy, innovation, and for people to have more opportunities to lives they feel are way more worthwhile. Over the last few years, I was invited to give talks to people in large companies, prestigious universities, such as Tsinghua University, as well as for people higher up in government. Others also were doing similar talks about hackerspaces. Eventually the excitement filtered up to the top of the government, when Premier Li visited Chaihuo hackerspace in Shenzhen in 2015, thus making the hackerspace movement really take off in China!
What do you think about STEM education development by Chinese Companies today? I find than the best learning technologies education come from China, and you ?
Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math are all important. But for these subjects (and all subjects) to be meaningful for education and life, and for any lasting and meaningful impact, creativity must be a part of the entirety. The term “STEM” lacks this, which is why most people around the world are now calling it “STEAM”, where the “A” is for Art, a catchall for creativity and innovation in any realm.
As with all subjects, STEAM is best learned through project-based, hands-on, play-based learning. A hackerspace in a school is a great compliment to the traditional classes where students will be highly motivated to learn more of what they need to make their projects better, more creative, and more innovative.
China is one of the few places in the world that is enthusiastically starting to embrace this. I think that as really good results are seen in China, that it will spread to the rest of the world. China is leading the way!
Finally, what do you think of industrials models who change in West — in addition to the Maker’s movement — which tend to relocate production, compared to Chinese industrial models — based on automation and incubation — with the help of Makers world ?
These all compliment each other really well. As people everywhere in the world, including China, explore and work on and play with projects they think are way cool in hackerspaces, some will become popular products that need to be manufactured. China is still a great place for this.
Do not you think it is a paradox in the Maker’s movement : the myth of local craftsmanship which passes to industry, versus the means of production and distribution of industrial relocation?
People exploring and finding projects they really love leads to some people finding realms that they will stay with their whole lives. These people will become experts in their field. They will be sought out by others. Some of these people will be more like craftsmen or artisans. Others will be experts at bringing a project from an idea to manufactured product. This is all fine! And it should all be encouraged.
Not everyone who finds projects they love will want to create a product or service from their project. Some will, some won’t. Of the ones who do, some will be exciting enough for others that they will pay for the products and services, and these will grow. The combination of all of this together is what creates the fertile ground for more exploration, more people finding projects they love, and more people finding opportunities for putting these out into the world as products and services, much of which will rely on Chinese manufacturing.
This is beneficial for everyone — the individuals exploring in hackerspaces, the hackerspace communities, the manufacturers, the customers, the local economies, and the people living those areas. If there is enough of this, the entire country benefits. That is my hope. And it is a big reason I do what I do.
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Analyses et commentaires à venir.
Un grand merci à Clément Renaud pour l’aide, la mise en forme et l’anglais ^^
