Finding herself while shedding the expectations of women and mothers.

Epics Podcast: Episode 07.

Alex: Hello and welcome to the Epics Podcast. This podcast has now been out for a whole month. I can’t thank all of you enough for the support in my first month on this adventure. If you want to take your support to the next level, you can keep listening. Rate and review the pod, if you feel so inclined so that more people can find us easier or join my Patreon campaign, where you can support Epics monthly with your wallet.

But that’s way too much about me already. This week, my wonderful guest is Kimberly Smith. Kimberly is a resilience and life transition coach. And the founder of Encompass Coaching. I got to have a great conversation with her about the life she has led, which includes all the transitions she’s experienced and how she found herself fighting with the pressures of society’s expectations and quote unquote rules.

That are put on women and mothers. She is incredibly insightful, thoughtful, and fun to chat with here on Epics, we’d like to be a part of sharing everyone’s story, and particularly elevate the stories of those who we don’t often hear from and understand. Kimberly’s story as a woman, and as a mother is one that we need to understand better because as she told me, her story is all too common.

Kimberly doesn’t claim to speak for all mothers and their stories. But the insights that we can glean from honoring her story could go a long way towards laying a foundation for honoring the stories and lives of all mothers. So let’s get started.

Well, Kimberly thank you so much for joining me today, I really appreciate you coming on.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah. Thank you. It’s my pleasure to be here.

Alex: Absolutely. would you be able to describe yourself and the environment around you for those of you who are listening with their ears instead of their eyes?

Kimberly Smith: Sure. Sure. Well, I am olive skinned. I’ve got medium length hair. It’s wavy today. I’ve got, blue eyes and I’m wearing a blue tank top sitting in my office chair with a bookshelf and my whiteboard calendar behind me.

Alex: Wonderful. And what would you want listeners to know about you?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, well, I’m a resilience and life transition coach. Basically, I help people who are struggling with chronic stress and exhaustion. I help people get a grip, build that mental stamina and really develop a positive and resilient mindset so that they can increase their energy and overall resilience, of course. Increase their confidence and move through the twists and turns of life with greater ease.

so I mean, that’s what I do and that’s who I am. Um, but I’m also a mother. I’ve got a seven year old daughter. I am a Yogi. I love yoga. It’s one of my favorite pass times. and I live in Houston, Texas. The great city of Houston, Texas.

Alex: I don’t want to dive right into your story a little bit here. I’m assuming that resiliency life coach is not ever someone’s first career.

Kimberly Smith: No, definitely not.

Alex: So where did you start out?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, sure. Well, I knew that I wanted to work with people and I was always really passionate about people. I wanted to understand, what makes us tick, what makes us do the things that we do. you know, so I studied sociology and psychology in school.

That’s what I’m I got my degree in and I worked in insurance sales. I worked in the nonprofit sector. I spent 10 glorious years as a recruiter, both in HR settings and talent acquisition, and other HR functions. And then also in consulting and agency settings. so I’ve been career coaching people for, a decade really, you know, helping them into new opportunities.

And so it, it was a easier transition, I guess, but I had no idea what a life coach was. Actually, I heard about life coaching actually on a podcast. So yeah, it was one of those aha moments. And I was at a point in my career where I was becoming a little disenchanted with, you know, just my everyday work. I needed a new challenge and this kind of lit me up, once I started to learn a little bit more about what it was and how it could actually help people and change people’s lives. I, there was no looking back,

Alex: so. Let’s talk about some of the transitions you’ve gone through in your life. What were some of the things that, that you really went through that you think of when you go back to your transitions?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, of course, and that little summary there that made it seem like it was really clean and easy, but, life is definitely not clean and easy for anybody. I think, oftentimes are lives look really perfect on paper and that’s how my life looked, And, you know, I kind of moved through adulthood kind of checking the boxes.

Right. You know, like get my, go to college, check, find a partner, check, get married, check, we bought a house, I bought my first house at 26, and moved across country. I’m actually originally from upstate New York. right out of the gate, after really about a year or two after getting, My college degree.

I was in all of these big life transitions simultaneously. So I relocated, 1800 miles away from home. So I was kind of a fish out of water in a new city, building a new social networks in a new industry, having a new job. And I was engaged to be married right in the same year,

I started a new job, bought a house and got married all in one year.

Alex: Wow.

Kimberly Smith: it was intense. Yeah. It was really intense. And, I, then it was just, there was nothing slowed down from there. Right. You know, we actually relocated again. about 18 months after we got married, my husband’s job took us to south Florida.

We ended up moving there for his work. And so then I was again, in a new place with no family or friends I was working from home. I was struggling a little bit with that transition and just, who am I in this new place? My husband was overwhelmed with his new job in his new role and was working seven days a week.

So, you know, our new marriage was kind of struggling because we weren’t really getting to enjoy the life that we had really sought after.

Alex: Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: And then shortly after that, we. We bought another home. We still owned our home in Texas and we’re renting that out. Um, so we, you know, now I could, I added property manager to the list of roles that I was playing from, you know, 1200 miles away.

And then we built a house, right? So we, there was just a lot happening. And then shortly after that, we welcomed our daughter into the world. So then I became a mother. So there was so many different, amazing life transitions, but as amazing as they were, they were super duper stressful, and it put a lot of weight on us at a very young age.

You know, we were new in our careers. We were new in the different environments that the cities that we were living in and we just kept loading up our plates taking on more and more responsibility, because we were really. working towards this idea of success that we had both been raised with, subconsciously.

Alex: Right. I have a follow-up question for you, but first I want to ask what’s your daughter’s name?

Kimberly Smith: yeah. Amelia is her name.

Alex: Wonderful. Tell me a little bit about her.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah. Amelia is a gem. She is the light of my life. She was born in Florida. So she’s a little Florida baby and yeah, she just has the most adventurous spirit. She’s a Gemini. she’s just a little wild. she’s also, she has that little split personality, right?

She’s a drama queen. but she has a great sense of humor. She’s so silly and she just has this thirst for life. even now she’s seven years old. She always wants to go and do things and try new things and. She’s kind of fearless, you know, I admire her in so many ways because, she doesn’t have any siblings, she doesn’t have any real older people to really look up to.

but she just beats to her own drums. So, you know, we have a lot of fun together and, she just brings a lot of joy and happiness into my life. And, you know, she kind of reminds me of myself when I was a kid. I think, that’s for any parent that’s one of the many joys of this journey is that we see so much of ourselves in these little humans and, we can really re parent some of the tough areas that maybe we didn’t, get what we exactly needed when we were little.

Right. So

she’s just wonderful.

Alex: Yeah. I think for me being a parent, seeing myself and my children is often wonderful, but it’s often like, oh crap. I say that all the time. Oh man. Anyways, I have more questions about you, but I have to prioritize

Kimberly Smith: Of course.

Alex: you were talking about how, you’re checking all these boxes off. You get married, you have a house, you starting a career, starting a family, you described it as your life was perfect. can you tell me a little bit about what standards you were measuring that by?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, sure. And that’s a great question. You know, my, a little bit more about my background on how I grew up Alex is that, I, my parents were divorced from a very young age. I grew up in a suburb that was very idyllic. and I did not feel like I actually fit into that suburb. Most families were two parent households lived in really great neighborhoods.

just your typical suburb. Right. And my parents were divorced. I saw my dad a couple times a week. We didn’t live in a neighborhood. We lived on like the outskirts of town. and we lived in a duplex, you know, so I had, I had a lot of shame, I think from a young age of that, I didn’t actually fit in with my peers.

Right. Because they had this just perfect life. And mine didn’t look like that, And we struggled financially. You know, my mom was a single mom, three children at the age of 26. My mom was also diagnosed with a degenerative eye disease, which. Basically gave her the diagnosis that she was going to go blind eventually.

And, and today she is blind. And so we had limitations. Right. You know, my mom couldn’t drive at night. you know, so that meant that I always had to carpool with people. Like my mom could not drive me to my chorus concert because she had night blindness at that time. Right. So I always had to hitch a ride with people.

So that also made me feel different and, money was just, other kids could just say, Hey, can I, yeah. If I have $10, can I go have 20 bucks to go to the movies? You know, all this stuff that just was not an option for me. Right. I knew that we were strapped for money. And, from a young age, you know, instead of playing sports, I had a job.

I got my first job other than babysitting from the time I was 13. I had my first job where I like punched a clock at 15 years old. and I remember starting that job. my glasses were broken at that time. I had a piece of tape that was pulling one side together, but, because I lived in this area that kind of showed me what was possible.

That’s the idea and version of success that I became attached to. Right. So I had this idea of success. Okay. Successful people get a college degree, successful people buy a house, successful people get married and stay married. Right. Like, and that was kind of like the goal, like how. Quickly, can I acquire these things, and really just get to a place of security and stability.

That was kind of, my mindset was like, okay, once I get my degree, get married, you know, and I didn’t really have a timeline for the marriage thing. That actually is interesting. Cause I wasn’t somebody who was like, I want to be married by the time I’m 24. Like I just did not have that. It just actually naturally happened. and yeah, and then I thought in my head like, then I’ll be happy. Right. Then I’ll be satisfied and fulfilled and then I’ll feel truly safe. So that’s, that’s where I acquired it.

Alex: What you just said really stood out to me that then you would feel really safe. Was it always about safety and security or the lack thereof?

Kimberly Smith: Yes. I think, and. part of that was, you know, I was the youngest of three. That was also part of the dynamic. And my siblings, as much as I love them. They’re very intense. They’re very intense personalities. And, they were really great athletes. So they were in the sport, they were in sports, they, and they also worked and had jobs and definitely hustled too, for, for their own side cash and things like that.

but I kind of felt like there wasn’t much left for me at the end of the day. Like I was the youngest, they were already taking up so much time and energy. I, in my brain, even as a kid, I was like, well, how is my mom gonna make this work? Like, I didn’t want to put more stress on my mom by being involved in a million extracurricular activities.

Because I knew she just, she already had so much on her plate. She didn’t have the bandwidth for it. And so I kinda, you know, I was the easy going one. I just kinda like chilled and try not to rock the boat much. but at the same time, when I started working and everything and making my own money, got the feeling that, I can rely on myself.

I can’t ask for these things. I can’t actually count on other people, even my parents, sometimes in these situations to provide things that I need or want. Right. I mean, of course my basic needs were mostly met. But, the wants, right? Like there was a PR, there were some pretty big voids and, so I learned to count on myself and that nothing really felt secure or safe.

Right. Like there were holes financially. There was, you know, my relationship with my dad was always strained. I read somewhere that girls specifically get their sense of security and stability from their father. we hear in, in society, right? oh, like she’s got daddy issues. Right. You know, so she’s got this like maybe an attachment style in her relationships or something.

And, luckily I didn’t have that. I have the anxious avoidance style.

Alex: Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: it’s just funny how those things do pan out. Cause you, do you learn that you have to show up for yourself.

Alex: Yeah. And then what was that like for you when you got married? were you looking for the security with him? not to fill that father role, obviously, but to fill that role of this is my person, who’s going to bring the stability and security to my life?

Kimberly Smith: Emotional stability. I think so. Yeah. I think, I looked more towards our partnership as a safe place or what I wanted. I wanted it to be a safe place for me to be seen. Because as a kid, I didn’t so much feel seen and heard of course. And, but as far as financially, I actually always thought I always knew that I would be showing up for myself in that way.

So yes, of course, you know, two incomes are so much stronger than one alone. yeah. Yeah. So I don’t think I looked to him for the financial piece, but definitely emotional side.

Alex: Yeah, definitely. And so then when your life is rolling, according to your childhood description of success and you have the career going, going well, you’ve relocated, bought a house, adding hyphens to your job titles. At what point did you start to not feel as fulfilled by those things?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah. Well, my stress outweighed my fulfillment.

Alex: Hmm.

Kimberly Smith: That was really what was the red flag? You know, motherhood, I think was the icing on the cake. or the straw that broke the camel’s back, whatever you want to say. Um, but it was, and I loved it. I loved being a mother. I stayed home for the full 12 weeks with my daughter and I was lucky that I could do that.

she went to daycare at 12 weeks and did exceptionally well. Mentally, I think I wanted to go back to work and I was ready because I missed that social aspect of work, and I missed my colleagues and things like that. But, was I really ready? I don’t know. You know, so once I went back, I started to experience a level of anxiety and stress and overwhelm that I just had never experienced before.

You know, because now. Instead of just thinking about going to work and what to make for dinner and relaxing at the end of the day. Right. You’ve got an, a human that you need to care for. Right. So you’re, you’ve got daycare drop-offs and pickups and doctor’s appointments. And, within the first year of my daughter’s life, she had 13 ear infections.

So, you know, we were always in the pediatricians and that was me. Right. It fell on me, my husband worked on a trade floor. He’d just, he could not do that. And so, yeah, it was overwhelming. And I had a very busy job I would traveled for work as well. I was a recruiting manager for a luxury hotel and resort and, As much as life was wonderful.

I was exhausted. I was physically exhausted. I was mentally exhausted. I was emotionally exhausted, spiritually exhausted. that is the definition of true burnout is when you have nothing left to give it that day. At the end of the day, you’ve got nothing left to give your family. You’ve got nothing left to give your partner and you’ve got nothing left to give yourself. And that was, that was huge too, because, I consider myself very independent, right. So like, even if my husband prior to having our daughter was caught up with work and stuff, I could go do whatever. Right. I could hit a yoga class or go to the gym or go to the beach or whatever. I was very independent in, in just the way of doing things like that. But now I didn’t have that freedom either. So I couldn’t actually. Nourish myself or care for myself like I did before. So I was always running on empty.

Alex: Yeah. And I think just from witnessing my, my wife’s experience entering motherhood, I think there’s so many times where, like you were saying that you have nothing left for anybody, but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s so much, if not everything still hingeing on you.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah.

Alex: And so you’re just constantly running on empty.

You never filling that tank back up and Burnout is the perfect word for that, I think. I don’t want to speak for you, but for my wife, I’ll speak for her, I guess.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah.

Alex: for Christine,

she had a lot of guilt associated with that because she wanted to be a hundred percent there for her child.

And it’s one of those things that feels awful to say out loud that like, I’m tired. I can’t be there for them right now. I can’t be there for you right now. And I think that’s something that, most of us being either men or not being mothers, we don’t know what that’s like to feel that capacity.

Okay.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, you know society really sends a very strong message to women, right. That, you know, since we really returned, you know, entered the workforce, that it’s not this or that it’s this and that. and many women do feel like they need to choose and they do give up their careers.

Right. I mean, so many women left the workforce in 2020 beacuse we needed to , right? I mean, distance learning, all the things. we saw more women leave. I think over a million women left the workforce was the number that I I saw. And it’s probably more than that now. and it’s, it’s very, it is, it’s tough because, we are passionate about our careers as well, and probably just as much as men are, right.

Like, it’s not, uh, you know, we both have that, but we’re the only ones that can carry babies. We are the only ones that can bring that life into the world. And so, yeah, we feel this enormous pressure to do it all right. To be it all. And. We’re comparing ourselves, right. To people we see in the media, we’re comparing ourselves to our neighbors or our best friend or other people in our life who may have completely different circumstances.

And again, what we see on the outside of people’s lives is not an indicator of what’s actually happening behind closed doors at the end of the day. I mean, there’s so many things that we don’t know about. Even people who are very close to us. so, yeah, it is. It’s very humbling,

I think that’s one of the lessons. There is managing parenthood and a career. You have to have humility. You have to be able to admit and not just admit, but embrace. The fact that you can not do it all, that you are not superhuman, that you have a capacity and that you have your breaking point for, for the BS.

Because we do put up with a lot of BS and when you’re a parent and then you’ve just got you’ve just got way less capacity for it. Right. So, it becomes a whole new game of life after that.

Alex: Absolutely. I’m curious, you know, in your infinite wisdom that you’ve gained since that moment of becoming a mother, what is something that, looking back, if you were having a con having a conversation with yourself as a new mother, what would you be encouraging yourself to advocate for?

maybe even a simple thing that you were trying to take on that you really shouldn’t have that you just didn’t have that capacity for

Kimberly Smith: that’s a great question. I just think I would encourage myself to ask for help, ask for and receive help. I was trying to, I was cleaning even just from the end of pregnancy too. I remember I cleaned my house top to bottom at 37 weeks pregnant. and then I found out. a week later or like a few days later that I was three centimeters dilated, you know, like I was spending for like a month.

And, and it’s, you know, just, you don’t have to do it all right. Like hire a damn cleaning service. get your meals prepped somewhere. Right. and I understand that’s like a luxury, It really is. Or I think a lot of us think it’s a luxury. there’s always creative ways.

Of getting what we want. when we say something like, well, getting a cleaning lady is just what rich people do or getting your meals prepped is just what rich people do. it’s about prioritization, and moving things around. Yeah. You may have to, you know, make some creative cuts or whatever, but if it makes your job, if it makes your life easier, right.

On the other side, if it brings you peace of mind, mental clarity and gives you some space, It is so worth that investment, that temporary investment, maybe. and we do, we want to do it all. We, I wanted to cook and clean, and that was something that I have. So let go of, since being a mother is, I mean, I used to make these elaborate meals and I love to cook and eat, um, after motherhood, I was like, you know what?

I’m keeping it simple. I am. So keeping it simple. I will buy things that are prepped. I will take all the shortcuts in the world. And it doesn’t say anything about me. It doesn’t mean that I am less of an amazing wife or less of amazing mother, because I took those shortcuts.

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I personally, I’ve never been a mother myself, but, I have ADHD and one of the things that I do to kind of, take the edge off of my capacity on some of those other things, is I call it the ADHD tax.

So it’s. could I go and buy the, the raw chicken at the store and then go home and cook it all up or I could, buy something that’s pre-cut or pre prepped And for me, it just makes it that much easier. So that I’ll actually do it as opposed to just letting it stay in the freezer for three months.

And yeah, it costs a little bit more sometimes, but you know, if I need to, just run the kids to McDonald’s one night, because we just have nothing else.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah.

Alex: we have food in the fridge, but we just can’t. I sometimes I’ll just go buy takeout food, because I don’t want to do dishes after making food,

Kimberly Smith: Oh, absolutely. especially now after COVID, I’m so sick of tired. I’m tired of cleaning up after myself.

Alex: Totally.

Kimberly Smith: it just after being home for so long and just like, I mean, seriously, it’s just the dishes piling up throughout the, out the day for, every single day. Yeah.

Enough is enough. Take the path of least resistance. You don’t have to prove anything to anybody.

Alex: definitely. And I’m curious for you when you started to feel, your limits being stretched, reaching the end of your capacity and starting to feel that burnout happening, what did you do to start to regain control? How did, what did you have to realize that you had to change?

Kimberly Smith: well, first off I had to admit that where I was, was not actually a good place. I had to say it out loud. Yeah. I had to say it out loud. Because when you’ve worked so hard and you feel like you have done everything, quote unquote, and then you end up in this place of like, how did I get here?

I thought I did everything, right. You know, like you, yeah. You ha you start to question so much of who you are, but admitting that, like, you know what, right now, like in that place was not making me happy. I was not fulfilling. My health was suffering clearly because I was having panic attacks and I had never had that before.

Right. and I also had to take some what I like to call upfront accountability. And most people think of accountability as something that happens like within a process. within the process of say like, a fitness journey losing weight, or, you know, if they’re building any type of new habit or, you know, just even, how people show up in their, their daily life for the people around them.

But upfront accountability to me is what have I personally done? what decisions have I made? What beliefs have I acquired and attached myself to that landed me here. How did this actually become my world? Right. And. Really had to put that under the microscope. I had to do some soul searching.

Right. And part of that was like, redefining, what does success look like? Because clearly the success that I thought I was going after was not the success that was going to actually bring me the joy and happiness and the peace of mind and the safety and the security that I actually wanted in life. It wasn’t.

So I had to redefine success. I had to also get to know myself on a deeper level. I think that as we move in from adolescents into our college years, and there’s not really a ton of self discovery that goes on, right? Like you’re in this bubble of academia and, still you’ve been, you’re a product of all of the influence that you have been subject to throughout your life, from your family, from your neighborhood, from your religion from, all the different factors. And so it’s really understanding who you are at your core, right? Your authentic self, who are you without all of that BS. if Kimberly or if Alex existed alone in the world, who would he or she be without all of those people?

And so, you know, it was going down the path of self discovery, right. You know, exploring and getting clear on what I wanted, creating a vision for that. and also, coming up with some initial first steps, right? Like, I mean, I definitely didn’t have the whole roadmap yet for sure.

I have a lot of that roadmap now, and that’s what I work on with my clients. Because they’re typically at that stage or that crossroads of life where they’re realizing that wherever they’ve gone or wherever they are, isn’t actually giving them the satisfaction that they’re looking for and they need to pivot.

and that looks a little bit different for everybody, but I’d say, yeah, those are the first initial steps where that self accountability, that self discovery, self exploration, redefining really what life needs to look like for you to feel the way that you want to feel. And that’s not an easy surface level, task or process that can take some time.

It doesn’t come overnight. but it’s definitely possible.

Alex: And I think that as an outsider, looking at your story, one of my first things I think of is I would imagine this is much harder for someone like you to do that than someone like me, for example, because you’re a mother in that situation. And I think that our society has much stronger expectations of what a woman’s life is supposed to look like, what a mother’s life is supposed to look like.

and then when you’re talking about one of the first steps being, finding yourself detached from everybody,

Kimberly Smith: Okay.

Alex: who is Kimberly? I imagine that’s very difficult to do detaching yourself from your child to find your own identity. How hard was that?

Kimberly Smith: Extremely hard. So, another part that made it even more challenging Alex, was that I was a notorious people, pleaser

Alex: Hmm.

Kimberly Smith: and perfectionist as well. So I was wired to be extremely concerned with living up to the expectations of other people

Alex: Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: and also making them happy. Right? Like as from the time I was a very young kid, like I said, I was concerned with not putting stress on my mother’s plate.

I was concerned from the time I was my daughter’s age, you know, 7, 8, 9. I mean, thinking back to like, oh my gosh, what a sweet little girl I was right to even think in that way. And also being aware now, How I conduct myself and what my daughter is even privy to right. Because there’s certain things that like, children just are not ready to know or be a part of, um, in our daily lives or stress or any of that stuff.

Right. And, but it was hard, because I was wired that way. And I had learned along the way that if I just did X, Y, and Z and was “this way” or “that way”, then people would reciprocate the way that I wanted to. They would show up for me, Like, certain friends or, you know, family members or whatever.

Right. You know, and that was tough, right. To detach myself from the response that I would get from people. And to be okay with them really not liking this new version of Kimberly or not loving all parts of her. and that’s just, it we’re very dynamic. We are such layered beings. yeah, it was definitely challenging, but very much worth it.

I know myself better now than I have ever. and it’s something that continue to look forward to right. Is, is getting to know new parts of who I am and my future self as well, like who I want to grow into. it’s really exciting.

Alex: And so let’s talk about where you ended up then. So you go through this process of transitioning out of the life. You think you’re supposed to have, and then chasing the life that you want. What did that end up looking like?

Kimberly Smith: Well it’s, uh,

Alex: To this point.

Kimberly Smith: yeah, it, it definitely led to some realizations. It led to some really big and scary realizations, you know, I’ll be very honest. Um, you know, it was probably, I had been, I had gone to therapy a couple times, once when I first landed in Florida because I was very, you know, a fish out of water with my job and things were going on with my job back in Texas that I wasn’t really thrilled about.

And then I did start to go to therapy after I started to get some of these panic attacks. Right. And, you know, and just so people know the difference between coaching and counseling or therapy is that oftentimes therapy and counseling is focused on the past or the presence. And making sense of what’s happening.

and using those past events or present events to understand who we are, Coaching, is forward focused? Right. So we don’t spend a whole lot of time looking back, we focus more on your vision moving forward and what you really want to create and what results you really want to experience.

Okay. Um, so they often work hand in hand together, but at this point in time, I was really trying to understand, like, why was I so unfulfilled? I had this great life. I feel so guilty. I’ve got this new baby, you know, all the things, right. And one of the big realizations that came out of this was that I was completely unsupported

Alex: Hmm,

Kimberly Smith: that I couldn’t do it all by myself.

My husband was working seven days a week. I handled everything. I was house manager. I was property manager for our property in Texas. He just had to show up.

Alex: right.

Kimberly Smith: And there was a lot of resentment that started to come out because of this. Right? Because then I started to think this is not the partnership that I signed up for.

it’s just not, you know, I, and it was eerily similar to my relationship with my dad.

Alex: Hmm.

Okay.

Kimberly Smith: My dad never came to the things that really mattered. He showed up when it was convenient for him. And it was really this rude awakening of what I had thought I was worthy of what I had settled for.

the fact that I really hadn’t advocated for myself within this relationship or within my marriage. So there was some turning points. Obviously we ended up relocating back to Houston to try and gain some, work life balance because my husband started to realize too that he was just, he was not happy.

we were both on anxiety meds because he lived in fear of getting fired every single day that he went to work. Um, and it was our mental health was not in a good place. Right. So we were kind of a little on this journey together in trying to regain our foothold. But, in my head, I still hadn’t had the courage to come to him and be like, you’re not pulling your weight here.

You know, like, and it was when we came back to Houston and. then I was doing a three hour commute in the morning and, you know, there was a breaking point where I was like, we were about to move back into our house. We lived with his parents. That’s another thing we were, we moved in with his parents temporarily thinking that our house in Florida would sell very easily and it was on the market for over six months.

Alex: Oh my gosh.

Kimberly Smith: So we were living in two rooms, cramping, his parents style, they were cramping our style. Of course, I was doing a three hour commute and all he had to do was pack his gym bag and worry about that. You know, and then, you know, you reached this point where you’re just so pissed off, that somebody doesn’t see how much you’re struggling and how can they not.

I was found another therapist, thank God. And, you know, there was a, there was a reckoning, right. You know, there was a, do you even want to move back in with me and do you even want to stay married? And I was like, you know, some days I don’t, you know, and so we had some of those, come to Jesus conversations and, uh, it was, it was heartbreaking, right.

To look around and know that both of us had really worked very hard in different ways. and throughout this too, realizing that he wasn’t trying to be malicious, he was blinded by his own stress and overwhelm. Right. And. And yeah, where were we, what were we going to do? so, you know, we ended up going through the therapy path and after about a year, it was pretty obvious that just certain things about him were never going to meet my needs.

And I was finally at this, I was at a new place where I could finally advocate for myself and advocate for little Kimberly, right. Who didn’t get her needs met from a very young age. And now I’m, a third, I was a 34 year old woman who I was like, you know what? No, like I, I’m going to decide here.

And now that I get to have all of my needs. Whether I meet them myself or through different means this is not it, this is not the solution. And I can’t live like this. cause you can’t change somebody, you can’t change certain things that are just ingrained in their essence and in their, the core of their being, right.

that’s their own personal work. and I knew it wasn’t my responsibility to do that for him. Right. And so yeah, we made our decision to part ways and I’m very grateful that we were able to do that peacefully.

Alex: And when did you say your parents got divorced? What age were you?

Kimberly Smith: Oh, I was one actually I was one year old and I’m of course my siblings were older, but yeah.

Alex: So as a child from divorce, from as long as you can remember, did you have any, stigma of divorce in your head, going into that thought process that you had to battle with.

Kimberly Smith: Oh, absolutely. I mean, like I said, you know, looking around as a kid, I was the minority, people whose parents were divorced were the minority in the school and in the environment that I went to, and also my parents divorce was not a pleasant one. Like they did not like each other, clearly they were never really in the same room together.

And there was always this tension when say they were going to be in the same place at the same time, like say a school event or something like that. Right. Um, and it was always just really uncomfortable. So, you know, And also there was that strain between my siblings and my dad. And so it was, not pleasant for anybody involved.

And that was my, that was my picture of what divorce actually had to be that. And I think that that’s something that so many people can probably relate to and may even feel for themselves that, you know, when we hear the word “divorce”, we’re not given the warm fuzzies. Like it does not give you a flutter of joy when you hear that it’s usually comes with doom and like terror, because again, we’re what do we see in the media? What do we see in society? Even television and all that stuff, right. Divorce is portrayed as this nasty, terrible experience that is to be avoided and. you either do it and it’s terrible. And you fight about dividing the assets and all the things, and it’s just messy and ugly.

And you hate the other person or you stay married for the sake of the children and you live in misery for the rest of your life. No, nowhere can. I recall seeing a happy divorce

or one that was done peacefully and respectfully and in a way that resulted in people actually being friends on the other side, like that concept was just so foreign.

Um, so yeah, there was absolutely a ton of stigma and I think that’s why it took me so long to actually come to terms with the fact that I wanted a divorce. I remember sitting in my therapist’s office and admitting it for the first time. And I also remember the moment that I told my husband that I wanted a divorce.

And they were, they were separate occasions. And there was a lot of time in between those, because I was still kind of resisting the idea of it and thinking, well, maybe we can make it work and maybe we can mend this, you know? And it just, it just wasn’t possible.

Alex: and that sounds so hard to enter into that space that way, like there’s so much pressure on you. and I can only speak from, from my emotions. I would feel probably really guilty being the person to initiate divorce, being saying out loud that I want that, that I think that’s best for me.

And I think that’s best for my child. I think those would be hard things to say out loud. Once you got through that process, once you said it to your therapist, and once you said it to your husband, what did that do for the process? Does that make it easier or harder?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, and I had to come to terms with some guiding principles and some things to be okay with it myself. And I definitely think that’s worth sharing. Number one, I had to believe that I was worthy of a happy life,

Alex: Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: a truly happy life by my design, That I got to. figure out and put together and not one where I was trying to fit into the mold of being who I thought I needed to be for other people.

So that was number one. I had to know that I was worthy of more. And number two, I I had to remember that my daughter deserved to see a happy mother. She deserved to grow up with a happy mother. I remember, and you know, of course my mother did the best that she could, but I remember my mother being stressed, stressed all the, almost all the time.

There were definitely moments that we, we had a lot of fun as a family growing up. I have some amazing memories from my childhood that I cherish, but the dominating, idea of who my mom was during my childhood was she was stressed out and I didn’t want. that’s be like, I want my daughter to remember me throughout her childhood as somebody who knew how to have fun, who was strong, but also embraced emotions and told the truth and, was just authentic.

Right. And, and just a joy. Right. Happy. And so that also made the decision much easier. But I did feel guilty. I absolutely felt guilty. I felt guilty for even just what my, friends and family would think. I knew that there would be a divide Between his side and my side. Um, you know, my now ex-husband, his parents have been married for years. so they would not understand this. so yeah. did it make it easier once I told him? Yeah, it did because it made it real, and I finally felt like I was speaking the truth as well. that was really the core of it was that I spoke and I owned the truth that I wanted a divorce.

And then I knew that staying in this marriage was not going to be fulfilling for me or for us, like it, wasn’t going to be a healthy environment for anybody.

Alex: And something you said there really stuck with me talking about how you wanted your daughter to see you happy. I know, I know that there’s like the guilt associated with that, but it’s, that’s not selfish because if you look at it from her perspective, she deserves to have a mother who is happy

Kimberly Smith: Definitely.

Alex: and that makes a huge difference.

And I think it’s really important to shift that perspective. Cause we can be such jerks to ourselves talking about our own problems and our own guilt. And we put that on ourselves. But if we were to objectively ask your daughter, I would almost guarantee that she would say she would rather you be happy.

Kimberly Smith: Of course. And there are my stressful days and kids are so in tuned to. Our emotions, right? Just like I was in tuned to what my mom was going through and experiencing when I was a child, she can tell, you know, when she’ll, she’ll, she’ll ask me, you know, why are you sad today? Are you happy today?

Are you happy? she always is. She still checks in, right? Because I’ll tell you as an entrepreneur is this path is definitely filled with many challenges, many hurdles, and sometimes it’s hard as hell. It is. It’s hard as hell, you know? And, um, so, so yeah, she, she definitely, she sees that, but I always, set the record straight too.

And that, what challenges I’m experiencing are, are actually a good thing and that I’m learning through them and that I’m growing and that, you know, I know I’m going to figure it out. It’s just, you know, yeah. I’m a little sad right now, you know, if I’m having a bad day,

Alex: Yeah. And what does that process of divorce done for your family? What has that done for your relationship with your ex-husband and for your guys is joint relationship with your daughter?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, there’s a lot of freedom actually. you know, uh, kind of our mantra throughout that whole process was, Emilia first egos last, and that’s something that I share with other people too, is that it has to be about the kids. It has to be about, them having two whole and happy parents.

And, going after the belongings and fighting over things like, that’s your ego, right? that’s your ego wanting to be. validated and you wanting to win in a way. And it’s really not about winning, like I don’t think nobody wins in divorce, nobody wins. That’s for sure.

what, when you do win is when you can actually approach it through the lens of compassion for each other, compassion for how you got there together, right? The mistakes that maybe both of you made, right? Because it’s not just about one person, it’s not one person’s fault. It’s not about blaming anybody.

It’s about just having compassion for the situation that, Hey, this is going to be hard in many ways, for us both, right? As we feel our way through this unknown path, the least that we can do is actually have compassion for each other. and remember that our child or our children, they need us right. I think we just feel really free to be who we are. I feel like we both feel really accepted. we do feel like the slate has been cleaned in our life, right? Like we’ve had this beautiful, fresh start and this new beginning, you know, we, we have this beautiful friendship now, too, right?

Like we have a daughter together. we shared in this amazing experience of making this magical little human and she is equal parts of us, both. And we get to appreciate that together. We get to still share in the glory of our daughter together for the rest of our life.

Alex: Right.

Kimberly Smith: And nobody will quite understand that experience like us. so we still need each other in ways. Right. And we still support each other in many ways. In fact, we might even be better communicators and, just better at being transparent and direct and, just like orchestrating the moving parts of life together. But separately, if that makes sense. Right.

and we have some time to like recoup our energy. You know, we are on a 50 50 schedule. So she’s with me this week and we do our swaps on Monday. So typically if it was a school year, I would drop prophet school on a Monday in the morning and he would pick her up on Monday and that’s kind of, that goes back and forth.

Right. So she has. A room at his house. She’s got a room here at my place and she gets the best of us both. Right. And then we have, we each have a full week to rest and recuperate and, give back to ourselves. And it’s really amazing.

Alex: and I, I love the way that you’ve re painted the picture of divorce. just in this conversation, the, just the idea of starting with Emiliya first ego second, and the directionality of everything going towards compassion, compassion for the other person. I don’t think divorce is typically thought of as a compassionate act.

It’s like you said, it’s always seems hostile and angry and upsetting and, you know, I think it’s so beautiful the way you’ve painted that. And obviously my goal is not to encourage every married person to get divorced, but you know, we’re not glorifying divorce, but we’re trying,

What I would like people to hear is that we don’t need to demonize it the way we have. We don’t have to put it in this dark category, that it can be this beautiful thing. And I think that, again, something I keep coming back to is, especially for some of these women, some of these mothers that may be in similar positions, there’s a lot of pressure on these women to advocate for themselves.

I don’t think our world is set up for people to self-advocate as well as it should be. I didn’t ask a question there, but I, I, I just wanted to say that I really liked hearing the way that you described that process for you and how that’s not the way we think about divorce.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, I think we really need to rewrite some of our, our, our thoughts and expectations and, dissolve the stigma around it. you’re not going to be branded with this like letter D on your chest that like, there’s not something wrong with you because you couldn’t make it work. Right. you know, we, we talk about or we think about divorces being bad, but how often do you really think get into a conversation or really try and understand, well, why, why do 50% of our marriages end in divorce?

Well, hindsight being 2020, again, you’re growing up. And oftentimes meeting that person that you’re going to be marrying in your twenties, you know, twenties or at some point, right? Like that’s a tough period of time where a lot of people get married.

Not everybody, but a lot of people.

Alex: Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: And I would be interested to know, you know, for first marriages, right? what age they were when they got married. how well do you really know yourself at 22, 23, 24, 25? I mean, most people have this, like, you know, the thirties kind of aha. Like, you know, they used to call it a midlife crisis.

Cause it was like around 40. I think that’s coming actually a decade earlier now in our generation and

Alex: Explains a lot of my past couple of years, then

Kimberly Smith: yes. Yeah. People are kind of like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Right. Because I think we’re hitting, we’re hitting some of those milestones. Earlier. and, that’s just a really deep well of conversation.

Uh, yeah. I mean, how well do we really know ourselves in those early years? Right. And so, yeah, the compassion, in this is for our younger self for, for our partner’s younger self, right? The fact that we were both really inexperienced in life and just doing the best that we could. And, and it’s not, it doesn’t say anything about us.

We don’t have to say that we’re bad or blame anybody. it’s just about, really thinking about the future and thinking about how you want to proceed from this point. Um, and you can still have this. You can still have an amazing life on the other side of divorce. I think most people do have an amazing life on the other side of divorce and that’s something we don’t hear a lot of people talk about.

Um, and, and yeah, I feel very blessed. Me and my ex-husband Sam that’s, his name are our friends and we text daily and we send memes to each other and joke, and he shares probably too much information about his current relationship. So I’m kind of his life coach as well now, but, um, it’s it’s, it’s all good.

Alex: You just have to start charging him. He’ll share

less then.

Kimberly Smith: I totally, I know.

Alex: And

talking about the idea of advocating for ourselves. You talked about how, when you were younger, you picked up on so much from your mother, you knew how stressed she was and you ended up taking on so much responsibility. Like you have to do a lot of the driving because she couldn’t drive at night and you had to do all sorts of things for yourself.

You worked instead of doing sports, you became this really independent person. And not that any of those things are bad, but you then had to later figure out how to self-advocate having been through that process now. And you’ve already said that Amelia is a lot like you. How do you teach her to self-advocate?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah. You know, I think that a lot of it has to do with our core values. And, and also who we identify as being You know, who we believe we are as a unique individual, it’s separating ourselves from the masses and that is challenging, Because we are a very, how do I put this?

our society, we. We commend people when you are like other people, And we have this innate need for connection. And sometimes we don’t even realize how we are assimilating to be like our group of friends or, just going along with the crowd because we’re actually afraid of being cast out.

Right. We, um, and you know, Bernay brown, she’s one of my favorites. She, she talks a lot about this, And, and in her book, right, braving the wilderness, she talks about like, it can be a lonely fricken place, right. When you really self-advocate and you carve your own path and you are out there, encountering these challenges and doing it on your own terms, you know?

And so I think that there’s a lot wrapped up into that, but I do think that to self advocate, we need to know ourselves.

Alex: Okay.

Kimberly Smith: And we need to feel empowered to use our voice. And so that comes with knowing our worth, That we are worthy of being seen and heard, regardless of what other people. May think of us.

Right. Um, obviously we’re talking about respectful things, right? Like, and I, and aside from like you know racism and like some terrible things that exist out there. Right. I think that we could all do better with having tolerance for people who are different than us. even on the most simple terms, right?

Like we may like scoff at our neighbor because they, park on a different side of the driveway or their garage is filled with a bunch of stuff and they don’t park in it. You know, like, you know, we pass judgment about people all the time and we pass judgment about ourselves too. Right. So it’s constantly coming back to who we believe we are.

Who we want to continue to grow into. And it’s kind of this beautiful dance between who, what are my core elements that are really going to be part of who I am throughout my entire life. And what are the things that are kind of kind of shift and move around as I move through different phases of life. Because we do evolve. We’re meant to evolve as people we’re not actually meant to get to this place of being the same and staying stagnant. You know, that’s also a cause for lack of fulfillment and anxiety and overwhelm is that you’re just bored sometimes, you know, and you don’t know what’s wrong, but you’ve got all this built up energy, you know, anxiety, or some anxiety is energy without an outlet.

you can think of it that way sometimes. Is that okay? Well, you come home. You’re just like anxiously pacing and whatever. It’s like, well, what are you doing with that, with that energy? but yeah, knowing ourselves truly, continuing to get to know ourselves throughout different phases of our life and.

Really standing firm in our worth, to be seen and heard in all areas of our life. All situations too, whether that’s at home with our partner, whether that’s at work or whatever it is, Like there are ways to self-advocate and get what you need and get your needs met without mistreating other people. Or stepping on them. Does that make sense?

Alex: Yeah. And I love the idea of tying that to our self-worth. We need to understand ourselves. We have to know what we need and know what we’re worth to advocate for that. so it’s way easier for me to see the worth of my wife and then advocate for her than it is to see the worth of myself.

But we should be able to do the same thing for ourselves as we should for our children, for our partners, for our friends and. Really, you should probably be practicing that with your self first. I’m not the coach, so I’m not gonna give too much advice or anything, but, uh, that’s something that I’m not very good at.

And so that’s the reason I’ve acknowledged that’s something that I feel like you need to improve on.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah. And just to add to that, you know, worth and, and, and somebody might say, well, how do I know my worth? how do I even explore that? You know? And it’s, it’s all the worth is tied to our essence and knowing our essence and knowing ourselves, Well, what is our essence? Our essence or our onlyness is what makes us us, right?

What is unique to Alex? What does unique to Kimberly and. And everybody has unique gifts and talents that they are born with, that they develop. It is our way of showing up in the world that no one else can replicate,

Alex: Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: and it’s based on our unique experiences, our unique lived experiences. and that is the worst.

That’s the worth that you have to understand and see, and believe in that you bring to not only, your partner and the people that are in your life, but the world at large, the collective.

Alex: and I know that’s not an easy equation to start solving what is my worth and to anyone who’s listening, who would like my unprofessional answer, if they have no idea where to get started, just start with the fact that I’m going to tell you right now, you’re worth a damn lot. So start there when you’re figuring it out.

That’s just my, my first thing I want everyone to hear. And I wanted to ask you Kimberly, As we’re hearing your story, the positions you’ve been in, the transitions you’ve gone through in your life and the growth that you’ve done to better understand yourself and better understand where you’re going with your life and what your truest life is to those of us who haven’t experienced that the same, maybe a husband like myself, or like your ex husband, who maybe didn’t even know that you were close to your limits and stretching your capacity, or a friend of yours who may not have seen that because of the portrayal that we’ve given out there, what would you want us to hear from you? Yeah.

Kimberly Smith: I think it’s just, when you hear somebody’s story, that’s vastly different than you’ve experienced. I think it’s a wonderful and beautiful reminder that everybody’s experience is valid. Right. We may not understand it completely, but we have to respect the journey and the experiences of other people.

And I think a lot of times are when we don’t understand something, our go-to response is to reject.

it

Alex: Hm.

Hm.

Kimberly Smith: You know, and, and can we just hold space for somebody? Can we just say, I hear you, you know, and, and absorb it, you know, we don’t have to react right. Then when somebody tells us that they’re having a hard time or that they’re struggling with something, a lot of times when somebody is sharing that, or, you know, maybe you were just hearing about something from the first time in passing or connecting and, you know, whatever it is that we don’t quite understand, maybe we don’t have to understand it right then. Maybe we just need to hear it and give ourselves that time to, to just let it sink in. and, and yeah, having some compassion, I think compassion is a great place to come back to. It’s an emotion that nobody taught me as a kid. Right. You know, like I think we have to really educate ourselves when it comes to different emotions and all of that.

But compassion and then love, something like a go-to mental prompt for myself in these situations is how can I respond with compassion and love? if I’m in a conversation with Sam and he’s pissing me off or getting under my skin, which still happens from time to time.

Right. Um, you know, or whether it’s something else, Or during distance learning. Right. You know, I was, I will admit I was aggravated as hell at some of these teachers, but I kept coming back to the thought of how can I respond with compassion? How can I see this differently? And the fact is that those teachers didn’t have any easier than parents. They just didn’t they were lost, they were ill equipped. They were unsupported by the school districts and the local community, and yes, parents were struggling. Yes. Parents had a hard time, but that doesn’t mean that teachers also weren’t struggling. we think that one experience has to outweigh or negate the others.

And often times it’s not this or that it’s this and that. yeah. How can I respond with compassion and love? when something seems just so different from what you’ve gone through, take some, maybe, maybe a pause. Maybe that’s a good moment to just not respond. Um, we are all very eager to share our opinion, even in situations that we know nothing about.

Alex: Okay. And I love those two really actionable steps that you gave us the first is just hear them. Don’t feel that need to respond right away and then follow that up with how can I respond with loving compassion? I think if we could, if we could all just right now agree to just do that in every conversation that we’re in, we can solve a lot of problems.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah. I mean, think about how conflict would be diffused, Or just avoided altogether.

Alex: And I know that, in my marriage, I want to know what I’m doing or what I’m not doing is probably more often the case that is impacting Christine and through years of therapy, continuous therapy that we’re still in and we’ll always be in. I’ve realized that if I want to hear what I can do for her, I have to be able to listen. She can’t say it unless I’m listening or she can say it and I’m not listening. And it’s the same as not saying it. So that’s something that I personally have had to go through and I’m still going through. and I’m great at it about a couple of days a week and not all the time. And it’s a process the Roe is going through.

Kimberly Smith: Okay.

Alex: but I love the steps again that you said of, hearing first and then how can I respond with love and compassion if there’s anyone listening who has similar experiences to you, who is feeling at the end of their rope, as a new mother or in a new career or in a new marriage, or just, adding hyphens to their titles, what would you want them to hear from your story?

Kimberly Smith: Okay. Yeah, I want, I want people to know who have a similar experience because I know my experience is not unique necessarily. Right. I’ve talked to many women and you know, many of my clients, have experienced some of the very same challenges. Right? I’ve had people say, wow, your website is like reading age off of my own life. because I share a lot about my story on there. And, I would first encourage people who are feeling maybe triggered by this, that holy crap. This is me. is she talking to me? Right. You, you have to choose yourself first. It’s such a tough decision because we are told that’s the selfish choice and it’s really not, it’s not it, the world can only benefit from your own leanness and all of your gifts.

If you prioritize nourishing who you are. And that comes in many forms. but don’t be afraid to use your resources. I think that is also something that has served me really well. Is that. I wasn’t afraid to use my resources. And if that means using your insurance to go to therapy.

Great. If that means that, you want to hire a coach. Great. if that means that you want to go talk to a member of your clergy, great. talking about what’s happening in your life, allowing yourself to be vulnerable is such a gift. It is so opening, right? don’t be afraid of the dark parts,

We all have shadows. We all have areas of who we are that need fine tuning. Right? We are not expecting the idea that we need to show up perfectly throughout our lives is just a big fat lie. And, the sooner you figure that out, the better, right? And the sooner you decide to put yourself first and use your resources.

Alex: Well, thank you so much for, for joining me today and sharing your story and being so vulnerable. And then so encouraging to all of us listening. if anyone wants to follow along with more of what you’re doing and more, from your business, where can we find you?

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, sure. So my website is www.EncompassCoachingServices.com. And I do quite a bit on Instagram as well. My handle is @Kimberly.Brooke.Smith and yeah, those are the two main places that you can find me. if you are feeling like you’re at this crossroads of life, if you’re struggling with kind of the overwhelm, the stress, the anxiety, maybe your relationship, isn’t what it used to be.

Maybe you’re just, you just don’t know what needs to change. I would love to talk to you. I would love to hear your story and, I encourage anybody who wants to book a free discovery call to, click the link in my bio or on my website and jump on my account.

Alex: thank you so much, Kimberly, for everything that you’re doing and for just being a lot of fun to talk to you today, I really appreciate all that.

Kimberly Smith: Yeah, my pleasure being here, Alex. Thanks for having me on.

Alex: Of course, we’ll talk to you later.

Kimberly Smith: All right. Talk soon. Bye-bye

Alex: Thanks for joining me today to listen to the conversation that I had with Kimberley. Again, if you want to follow along with Kimberly’s journey or learn more about Encompass Coaching, you can find the links to do so below in the description of this episode. If you’re new to the Epics Podcast, welcome.

Hope you enjoy it here. Epics is here to share people’s stories and elevate the stories that we don’t often hear so that we can better understand others. And begin to break down the foundations of discrimination that they experienced. Follow us @EpicsPod, wherever you shamelessly scroll, to kindly at our mission to your feed and see whose epic story you’ll hear next week.