Continuing the Conversation

Thoughts on privilege, male sexuality, “honor,” and some other things too :)

I’m not here to grade people, Elliot Nichols, haha. Hopefully I didn’t give the false impression that I’m the World’s Expert On Consent.

Your response shows that you’ve really thought this through, so thank you for that, and thank you also for sharing your own personal narrative, which I think is one of the most important aspects of these conversations. (My main writing genre outside of Medium is actually fiction, which not many of my followers here know. Storytelling is everything for me.) I think your main “thesis” — that is, “Consent lives at a three way intersection of permission, power and privilege” — is totally on point, not to mention satisfyingly alliterative.

BUT. If I had to grade people, you’d get an Incomplete, and so would every response here, and so would my own piece. We’re all trying to get at something universal and I think it’s impossible for one person to do that. And dialogue won’t complete it, but it certainly helps, so here are some of my thoughts, hopefully presented in a coherent manner:

On Privilege

[excerpt from Elliot’s piece]

She assumed as an attractive woman she had the right to make her advance and that it would be wanted simply because she was who she was. This is the same privilege men assume everyday […] If you go through life assuming the privilege that people will simply want your sexual advances, then you’re predisposed to believing you have consent.

(By the way, in the revised version of this piece on HuffPost, there’s a whole section on inclusivity, which notes among other things that “…the idea that all perpetrators are male and all targets are female is incredibly dangerous and simply wrong.” So I’m glad that we’re getting to look closely at an interaction that is not the dynamic we always see in those consent cartoons etc.)

Being attractive certainly carries an amount of privilege. And the assumption that people always want you (or should always want you) is a dangerous way of thinking in people of all genders. But the idea that “this is the same privilege men assume every day” seems, to repeat my word from earlier, incomplete.

This is going to get super cis/hetero, and also kind of complicated, so bear with me. I’m not really sure how these thoughts might apply in a more universal way.

I think that this woman’s dangerous and misguided assumption of privilege stems from a shallow sense of ego that is not nearly as deep-seated as the male privilege that permeates society. Her ego was hurt by the notion that you didn’t want to sleep with her (and I don’t want to minimize at all how messed up it was the way she treated you) but I don’t think it challenged her sense of identity on a fundamental level in the way that a man’s gender identity seems to be challenged by the refusal of sex. So why is this? I think that for men, the assumption of consent has much deeper roots (you can’t go much deeper than the patriarchy, ha).

Rape culture tells men that it’s right and normal for them to 1) always get what they want and 2) always want sex. I’m not an expert on cis/het male sexuality* BUT I think these two (untrue) tenets are important for understanding not only (some) men’s view of themselves, but also (some) women’s view of men. My main point here is that the male assumption of privilege is actually different from the attractive female’s assumption of privilege. But I also want to discuss how, in a circular sort of way, the former informs the latter. Hopefully I can articulate this clearly:

In the experience you shared, this woman’s cues from society are not only related her own sex appeal and general attractiveness (as you rightly pointed out) but also, we have to consider the way she thinks of male sexuality, which likely follows the two misguided “tenets” I explained above. So when you say “She couldn’t fathom that I didn’t want her,” there’s a lot more to the story. She thinks that as a man, you must always want sex no matter what. Which is, obviously, false. Her mentality is rooted in the dangerous way that rape culture paints male sexuality, even more than it’s rooted in her ego. (Though ego is certainly part of it, can’t deny that.) Your refusal didn’t just insult her, it went against her view of what your sexuality ought to be, and that view of hers comes from (you guessed it!) rape culture. I hope that explanation makes sense — it really is sort of “circular.” But it does go to show that the supposedly empowered view of male sexuality that rape culture propagates can, often, actually harm men.

*OK, OK, I’m more of an expert than I’d like to admit on the internet.

On Permission & Power

(I’ve cherry-picked these paragraphs and bolded stuff just to illustrate a point:)

But at the same time, we need to re-instill the concepts of respect and honor to male vernacular. Is the woman you’re flirting with drunk? Then it’s not it’s wrong to have sex with her even if she lets you. Because you shouldn’t want to be allowed to have sex with her. She should actively desire having sex with you and not just because she’s too drunk to make good decisions. And yes, it is on men to make that call because it’s our honor on the line. Which brings me to the last dynamic. […]

But rape predicates itself on abuse of power. Abuse of physical power is the most obvious and it is a reality we must acknowledge. Then there is abuse of status, whether we’re talking about popular athletes on college campuses or managers at major media companies. Using this power to coerce consent may or may not legally be rape, but it is a violation of honor. It’s not something a real man engages in.

So I agree with basically everything you’ve said about permission and power in these two sections of your response, but there’s one thing that I’m interesting in discussing further. I really like your discussion of how both parties should actively desire sex (resonates with my point about “enthusiastic consent”) — and I’m all for the “respect” bit 100% — but I have a lot of mixed feelings about the whole “honor”/ “real man” thing.

I don’t completely understand this male-gendered honor. It’s weird to me that men have it and women don’t.

Of course there are notions of female “honor” in our culture, but I don’t think it’s quite the same. Female honor tends to be about honoring your family, honoring where you come from, and so on, i.e. not being a disgrace. But the kind of honor you’re talking about seems to be more inward-looking, more self-reflective; it makes the conversation center around the man himself and his view of himself. Maybe you could explain a different perspective on this honor. (or mansplain it) (jk sorry I couldn’t resist, the set-up was right there man)

I’m about to more thoroughly discuss the way I see it, but let me first say this: It’s hard for me to criticize this idea, because I acknowledge that this inward-looking “honor” has probably prevented many rapes.

And yet. On a fundamental level, like a worldview/philosophy standpoint, I think that deciding not to have sex with a drunk person isn’t really about you, it’s about that person. It’s about respecting the full humanity of that person. And I’m not saying that these two mentalities have to be mutually exclusive, but I do think that male honor has a lot of privilege attached to it; it has this mentality of I’m better than this. And when men think that to themselves — I’m better than this — and then decide to back off, that’s a good thing, don’t get me wrong. But the whole approach just makes me feel icky. It’s like when people volunteer just to make themselves feel good instead of volunteering because it’s the right thing to do. You know? Agh, it’s hard to explain.

This perspective — the idea that being a good person shouldn’t actually be about you — is really wrapped up in my faith and it’s hard for me to separate that out. Maybe a woman coming from a different sort of worldview would be totally comfortable with the male honor thing. But me, I struggle with it, and I also struggle with the construction “…it’s not something a real man engages in.” Because that sounds so dangerously close to the come-on-be-a-real-man outlook that harms so many people of all genders. It’s part of the worldview that that woman was going on when she assumed you would have sex with her.

I know that your intent in bringing up honor was totally positive, but I think the impact here is a little more complicated. The implications of defining what “a real man” is and does can be especially harmful to men coming from queer and trans experiences, and other nonbinary folks too. You weren’t trying to be exclusionary in your language, but it’s something to stay aware of.

But I hope this is clear — you’re not wrong. This sense of male honor is real, and the question of whether I’m comfortable with it on a weirdly philosophical/religious/intellectual level might be irrelevant. Maybe it’s just something I have to get over. I have a tendency to intellectualize things. You know this about me, Elliot.

You’ve made me think really hard, but now it’s time for me to sleep. Thanks again for your eloquent response. Even though I sort of tore into “honor” at the end, I do think your response was very insightful, and still way beyond the amount of thought most men bother giving these issues, if any.

Going back to the idea of handing out grades to responses, I have to admit that even though yours was one of the most thoughtful and thorough, my favorite by far was this one, also written by a man (quoted in full):

“You can not end something that only exists in the minds of regressives majoring in underwater lesbian basket weaving.”

GUYS. IT’S NOT TOO LATE FOR ME TO CREATE MY OWN CONCENTRATION AT BROWN. I’M GONNA MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Hehe. Best wishes and good vibes,

Anna