The following is a transcript of a conversation between myself and a student learning about the Vedic constellations called the Lunar Nakshatras.
(The student)B: What do the words like “Purva” and “Uttara” mean before the names of some of the (lunar nakshatra) signs?
Me: In Sanskrit every word has many meanings. Let me grab each of these and post them. (Definition from Barbara Pijan Lama’s website)
being before or in front fore; the fore part eastern, to the east of former, prior, preceding, previous to, earlier than first (in a series), initial, lowest foregoing, aforesaid, mentioned before preceding the number `” eight “’ i.e. seven, the seventh earlier by a month formerly or before; hitherto, previously preceded or accompanied by, attended with Ancient, old, customary, traditional ; an ancient tradition An ancestor, forefather (pl. the ancients, ancestors); an elder brother Of the Nakshatra Purva-phalguni, Purvazadha and Purvabhadrapada collectively A partic. high number (applied to a period of years) Name of the most ancient of Jaina writings (of which 14 are enumerated); Name of a Tantra
upper, higher, superior northern (because the northern part of India is high) left (as opposed to dakshina “southern” or “right”) because in praying the face is turned to the east, the north would be on the left hand later, following, followed by, subsequent, latter, concluding, posterior, future time; a following speech, answer, reply subsequent result, future consequence, in future years superior, chief, excellent, dominant, predominant, more powerful better, more excellent; superiority, excellence, competency; chiefly characterized by virtue each of the Nakshatra that contain the word “uttara” upper surface or cover Opposed to; answer, contradiction, reply; (in law) a defense, rejoinder, a defensive measure; gaining a cause (in law) Attended with danger, having danger as the result result, the chief or prevalent result or characteristic, what remains or is left, conclusion, remainder, excess, over and above; remainder, difference (in arithmetic), at the conclusion, at the end “
Me: The roots for words like “Perverted” may stem from “Purva”… In most of the purva/uttara pairs the purva one is the “baser” and less evolved version of a relationship’s energy exchange. So, in most cases that means the “purva” stands for the carnal physical expression, and the “uttara” stands for the spiritual or conceptual expression.
In my Jyotish studies I have stumbled across many examples of Sanskrit words which sound similar to English terms attributed to Greek or Latin roots. The similarity of their definitions, and some research into Linguistics History, has led me to the conclusion that a considerable portion of the scientific and mathematical terms attributed to ancient Greek may actually have originated in Sanskrit.
Me: Uttara also seems similar to “Uttama” (exalted) which may be part of a kind of “phonetic” root for words like “Ultimate.” This is just my thought regarding your question. There are some much better examples.
It seems that scientific works written in Sanskrit were mostly studied after the science of etymology had already labeled the roots of most words. So etymologists are just beginning to catch onto the Sanskrit origins. The true Indus Valley and Indian origins of many modern concepts and sciences are only just being discovered by the Western world.
Me: I found this part of an article (below) which seems to show the source of a lot of the confusion surrounding the origins of things like the word यह शब्द “jyomit”/”geometry”. Basically, what happened was that Greeks were publishing texts about their astrological concepts and this Vedic astrologer, Yavanesvara, took one of these Greek manuscripts and rewrote it. Presumably he was comparing and correcting the Greek concepts, as well as modernizing the descriptors for some of the Vedic concepts, which are largely represented as deities although there is an understanding that they are actually energetic phenomenon. An example is the the Sanskrit word for planet, “graha”, which means grasp. This means that the planet is a symbol for a grouping of concepts within it’s “grasp”. Not that it is, in itself, a being.
The fact that the manuscript was translated into Sanskrit, and that many of the more commonly used Greek names were adopted, made it appear that the concepts moved from Greece into India. In fact, there is a lot of evidence of the usage of these concepts and principles in India long before this translation. (as discussed at the beginning of the same article quoted below: — http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/HistTopics/Indian_mathematics.html)
After this translation was made it really muddied that waters as far as determining the true origins of many of the concepts. I’m still compiling sources, but this certainly explains why it’s so confusing. The matter is further confused by interpretation by people knowledgeable about the Sanskrit definitions, and the mathematical concepts, but NOT in the astrological meanings of the words. The example below shows Rahu described only as a pair of demons, when Rahu is actually a metaphor describing the energetic behavior of the “shadow” of the Earth that causes eclipses at the ascending node.
“Yavanesvara, in the second century AD, played an important role in popularising astrology when he translated a Greek astrology text dating from 120 BC. If he had made a literal translation it is doubtful whether it would have been of interest to more than a few academically minded people. He popularised the text, however, by resetting the whole work into Indian culture using Hindu images with the Indian caste system integrated into his text.
By about 500 AD the classical era of Indian mathematics began with the work of Aryabhata. His work was both a summary of Jaina mathematics and the beginning of new era for astronomy and mathematics. His ideas of astronomy were truly remarkable. He replaced the two demons Rahu, the Dhruva Rahu which causes the phases of the Moon and the Parva Rahu which causes an eclipse by covering the Moon or Sun or their light, with a modern theory of eclipses. He introduced trigonometry in order to make his astronomical calculations, based on the Greek epicycle theory, and he solved with integer solutions indeterminate equations which arose in astronomical theories.”
Indian mathematics www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk
Me: I believe that Yavanaesvara was not replacing the “demons” called Rahu. I think he was replacing the term “Rahu” with the Greek terms referring to purely astronomical concepts without the metaphorical context from Vedic mythology. Calculations of the behaviors of the astronomical nodes in Sanskrit works that predated these demonstrated that they were likely aware that the nodes were shadows, and not demons.
Yavanaesvara had some good reasons to drop astronomical terms named for deities in order to make the science more translatable. The value of the mythological names is in their metaphorical qualities. A theorist or researcher familiar with Vedanta would instantly grasp certain characteristics of the subject matter, simply by learning the terms.
Foreigners would have no knowledge of this context. To them it would sound like a fairytale.
Also, Sanskrit could be considered imprecise because each word has many possible meanings. However, having studied Jyotish myself, I can say with certainty that many astronomical concepts can be described with incredible concise detail in Sanskrit.
I often find myself translating a two or three word long Sanskrit statement, for a student, into an entire paragraph of English explanation.
Another interesting example of the issue:
This excerpt from “Baudhayan Sulv Sutra (1000 BC) describes what is now known as the Pythagorean Theorum:
“In a Deerghchatursh (Rectangle) the Chetra (Square) of Rajju (hypotenuse) is equal to sum of squares of Parshvamani (base) and Triyangmani (perpendicular).”
We see a Sanskrit word “triyangmani” which would appear from context and phonetics to be an origin of the word “triangle”. However, this word is credited to Latin:
triangle (n.) late 14c., from Old French triangle (13c.), from Latin triangulum “triangle,” from neuter of adj. triangulus “three-cornered,” from tri- “three” (see tri-) + angulus “corner, angle” (see angle (n.)).
I am curious how many scholars have spent time comparing Sanskrit, Greek and Latin scientific and mathematical terminology from different time periods. Considering the proven usage of these formulas in construction of altars in the Harrapan civilization, it would make sense to deduce that the words are native to Sanskrit, not Latin.
Anyway. . . . I anticipate hearing more about this in the future as people look more closely and openly at Indus civilization and the texts that come from it.
I wrote this article on the topic: http://www.hari-and-avatar.com/what-is-ayurvedic-astrology/
This is the main relevant quote form the article: “If the word “Veda” is familiar at all, it is likely to evoke images of Hindu mythology. Or it might remind you of the word “Ayurveda,” referring to a system of healing based on elemental energies. The Western concept of a magical and superstitious India might be why I was surprised to see India pop up in the BBC documentary “The History of Mathematics” which explained that Vedic scholars set forth advanced mathematical treatises 1,000 — 3,000 years ago. They described the concept of zero, the 10-based value method, the techniques of algebra and algorithm, and square root and cube root, for the first time in recorded history. Sanskrit words contextually and phonetically similar to “geometry” and “trigonometry” appear in mathematical texts dating from before India’s contact with Greece and the word “Algebra” comes form the title of the first foreign book describing Indian methods of calculation. There is evidence that concepts such as “Pythagorean Theorum”, attributed to Greek or European scholars, were in common use during the construction of the ancient Harappan civilizations over 6000 years ago.
European scholars overlooked evidence of advanced mathematical knowledge in India for so long that these fields were slowly and gruelingly re-invented in the West over millennia before their existence in India was re-discovered. Perhaps Europeans believed that a land so full of ritual and faith based belief systems, where people wear turbans and select their foods for their “energetic” qualities, could not possibly possess the the tools for such precise logical analysis of reality. It is only very recently that the field of quantum mechanics brings conventional wisdom full circle to concepts described in the Vedas.”
B: I did see your article on your site. It’s interesting to me how closely aligned math and astronomy are to astrology. I always feel superstitious about the things I believe or study, but then I feel like they are legit at the same time.
Me: Yes, Jyotish (the science of Light,) is actually the root science that Jyomit (math) is derived from. In the Vedas Jyotish is the most important “arm” of the (seven) sciences, which all the sciences are derived from. Jyotish does include math, but it’s more than calculation… it includes astronomy, which is not a science in it’s own right, but a field of observation in which we can literally observe mathematical principles at work.
Me: If you think about it, we have existed in some form for billions of years within the cycles of repeating movements of our solar system. It’s more absurd to think that we are unaffected by it than to say that, of course, we are both aware of it and influenced by it on some level. Every atom of our beings have been subject to these cycles for as long as our solar system has existed.
In many ancient sciences they believed that all reality was a reflected manifestation of the collective consciousness or point of perspective. If that is true, then looking at the movements of the cycles of astronomy is the same as checking pulses in Traditional Chinese Medicine. It’s just a repetitive system of our “external” body, like a heartbeat, that we cannot consciously control but can utilize to discern things about our state of being. Jyotish sees the entire solar system as a single organism with a certain orientation to the center of the galaxy.
B: Hmmm that’s a good way to put it. In Vedic astrology it seems like you look at specific times — like a birth day, or specific days have different traits. How do people look at something like a whole year? Do they just observe how the planets and such will move that year, in relation to the signs of that person? Like if you wanted to see how your next year would unfold?
Me: Yes, let me find the word for that. In Western Astrology it’s called a “solar return” chart.
Oh yes. It’s called a Varshaphal chart. I don’t know how to do one. It’s pretty advanced in Vedic astrology, because you can’t just plug in the birth time… you have to find the time when the sun is at the exact degree it was in at the person’s birth… and since the Western calendar is based on tropical, not sidereal time, it’s screwed.. It takes some calculating.
I like to stick to learning the concepts and the metaphors instead of doing predictive “readings.” Mostly I like to tinker with ways to depict the ideas instead of doing calculations for this type of “horoscope” which is not interesting to me.
B: That does sound quite advanced. It’s interesting thinking through things like that. Like there is a set pattern, or destiny of what will happen. But then we have free will layered on top.
Me: I like to think of it the way it is described in many ancient belief systems: The set pattern was pre-selected by us with the Creator… so, yeah, there is free will. Everything is free will actually, but not the way we think. It’s the will power we executed in full knowledge, before this universe even existed. It’s the path we chose to walk for all of Creation.
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