Original title: Encounter with a Fighting Priest-George Foreman — An Exclusive Interview And Recall Of That Rumble In The Zairean Jungle With Mohammed Ali
Original title: Encounter with a Fighting Priest-George Foreman — An Exclusive Interview And Recall Of That Rumble In The Zairean Jungle With Mohammed Ali
Exclusive By Ben Edokpayi ©
I have had two opportunities to interview George Foreman, two-time World Heavyweight Champion, Olympic Gold Medalist, Ordained Minister, Author, and Entrepreneur; once in Nigeria (Interview was facilitated at his Eko Holiday Inn Room by the State Department through the Lagos Embassy https://www.state.gov/ ) as a very young journalist with Newswatch and in the US for The African Times from Richmond in 1990. Our first interview covered the gamut; his fight with Muhammad Ali, his Olympic Games experience, his toughest opponents and the profound impact Africa has had on him.
Here is our Q&A session (previously unavailable online)
Preface to the Q&A — George Cooney was supposed to be George Foreman’s biggest challenge since the 41-year old (George is now 65) World Heavyweight Champion began his comeback trail. But when both boxers met January 15 at the Atlantic City Convention Center, Cooney was knocked out in the second round of the challenge contest. The victory raised Foreman’s comeback record to 20–0, and increased the chances of the 41-year old’s much-talked about meeting with Mike Tyson, World Heavyweight Champion.
Before he returned to boxing in 1987, Foreman spoke with Ben Edokpayi. This Q&A is a combination of Foreman’s two interviews with Edokpayi.
Edokpayi — When we first met you did not want to make a comment on the problem of apartheid in South Africa. Now, as a role model and a well known figure, a lot of people find that disappointing. Would you want to change your mind about speaking on this issue?
Foreman- Well, let me put it this way. You get reports from South Africa, and then they’d say so many people got killed and that, the idea that people were killed. It’s like they are waiting on certain people to die. And that’s why I’d like the press to admonish them and say these are human beings. We are all created by one God, and that God is looking at us all as people. That’s the way it’s got to be. Human beings are being mistreated. Human beings shouldn’t let anything happen to nobody. Now, I met with Jesus Christ and he told me, he did. You see the color of my complexion? Do I have to tell you anything about that? But the color of my complexion and how I feel are two different things. I feel that all human beings are the same and that they are all brother’s and God’s children. We’ve all got to think that way.
Edokpayi — What were your childhood years like?
Foreman — Oh yeah, I grew up in Houston, Texas. I started drinking and stealing at a very young age. And I dropped out of school. I didn’t want to be educated. All I wanted to do was fight, drink and steal. I remember at the age of 16 I made up my mind that I had to do something about my life: police trying to get me, getting drunk and my mom and dad being disappointed. In 1965, I heard a commercial about Jim Brown, the great football player, and it said: “If you want another chance, join the job corps.” So I joined the Job Corps in order to learn electronics and to further my education. And when I was there I used to get lonesome in the evenings for my parents. While there I had this habit of fighting everybody and one day in 1965 I heard a boxing bout on radio between Muhammed Ali and Floyd Patterson and I started imagining myself on radio too. Everybody looked at me and said George, ‘why don’t you become a boxer?’ I said Okay. In 1967 I went to California to another job corps center and I started boxing and in 1968 I won a gold medal. Can you believe it! I had a good punch. I wasn’t really very skillful, but I could really punch and everybody would come after me and I would knock them out.
Edokpayi — In all your years as a boxer, what do you consider your greatest achievement?
Foreman — Winning that gold medal in the 1968 Olympics was the greatest. I was young, I didn’t believe in myself. I didn’t think I could do it and there I was a boy who had been drinking and in trouble all of his life. All of a sudden my family, my country was proud of me. I had redeemed myself from the curse of drinking.
Edokpayi — Did you turn pro immediately after?
Foreman — I waited awhile and then in 1969 I had my first professional fight with a man by the name Donald Waldheim and that bout went about four rounds before I knocked him out. And of course within three and a half years later I fought Joe Frazier and became Champion of the World.
Edokpayi — In your prime you fought some of the best names in the heavyweight division. Joe Frazier, Mohammed Ali, Ken Norton. Which one of them did you have more respect for in the ring?
Foreman — I think I had more respect for Joe Frazier. Of course, I was scared of Frazier. Man, that fella, I saw him fight Buster Mathews and Muhammad Ali, and I thought he was an animal. When I got into the ring I was scared of him and I remember when the bell sounded for the first round and I went out and he swung a left hook and it sounded like a bullet going past my ear, ‘shuck!’ And boy I realized that I had to fight. And the one fight I went into the ring with over confidence was the one with Mohammed Ali because I thought he was old and over-the-hill. It was a big disappointment for me because he knocked me out. He had the best strategy of all the fighters I had fought. And if even he got hurt Ali will always stick to his strategy. After eight rounds, he saw that I had worn myself out and he came for the kill and knocked me out. And it was all strange because when I looked in my corner, at my manager Dick Saddler, he told me to stay (down) till I got my head cleared. By the time I got up the fight was over!
Edokpayi — Archie Moore was in your corner, too?
Foreman — Right.
Edokpayi — Was it also true you gave Saddler $25,000 to pull you away from Ali if you had him down?
Foreman — Well, you see I had a habit of which I would have been disqualified. I was a mean man, vicious. When I got wound up I couldn’t control myself. If I knocked you down I’d still try to get you. So we wanted extra protection so that I wouldn’t be disqualified because I figured I was going to knock him out, although it turned out the other way.
Edokpayi — How did your spiritual rebirth come about?
Foreman — I did. I actually died in the dressing room after my loss to Jimmy Young in 1977. Though I lost I wasn’t visibly hurt from the match. And as I was cooling off in the dressing room I heard a voice in my head say, “Hey George Foreman, you do not have to worry about boxing. You can win fights. You can even go home and retire and die.” And I was overcome with this feeling of death. And the voice said if you believe in God why are you scared to die. “I did not believe in Christianity, I thought it was junk. I didn’t like the crucifix and I didn’t go for the Bible, but anyway I tried to make a deal with the Voice, and I said: “I could still fight and give money to charity.” The Voice said, “I don’t want your money, I want you.” And man, I felt like a dead man. I could feel my life getting away from me and in a split-second I was in a deep-dull nothing world, just dead! I saw everything I worked for, money, fame just crumble like ashes. And for no reason, I said: “I don’t care if this is death, but I believe in God.” When I said this I was back alive, I felt alive with blood running through my veins. I screamed to my masseur that Jesus Christ has come alive in me. And from that day on I was on God’s side. Of course they put me in the hospital to examine me. They didn’t find anything wrong. But I tried to get it out of my head. I said ‘Man, you’ve been hit too much.’ But things changed, I started telling everybody.
I never intended to retire. No way, I had the chance to get back and make all the money but I had to tell the story of what happened to me. Before that I didn’t believe that there was really a God. I knew it from then around telling everybody about it. And as a rule, I haven’t been a spokesman for boxing. They leave a bad name for a good sport. I still love the sport. It’s not that bad when you retire when you are supposed to, but don’t leave a bad name for the sport. I am trying to leave a good name for the sport.
Edokpayi — How have you seen the Nigerian people during your visit?
Foreman — Well, the people have been great. My first stop here was for 12 days. After so many hours of waiting, the Police got me something to eat, took care of my bags as if I was a baby. And since I came back, I have been invited everywhere, made all sorts of friends, and met people with different ideas. I have written a letter to the Minister of Sports proposing to build a George Foreman Youth Center, like I have in Houston. I want to set it up so that the kids who have some promise can build up themselves in areas like boxing, football, and wrestling plus a library where they will be a chance for specialized teaching. This I hope will promote patriotism and physical fitness in Nigeria, with the theme “Love your country by taking care of your body.”
Edokpayi — Would you want to come back here?
Foreman — Let me tell you something that happened to me three nights ago. I had an experience some time ago when a couple of my kids were taken away from me and I had to go to the West Indies to get them back. The reason I wanted them back was I didn’t want them to grow up without knowing me and my way of life. I didn’t want to meet them down the road someday and they’d be different. And in the process of getting them I almost got killed by the Police. It’s this same kind of feeling that came over me three nights ago when I came back to my hotel room. I broke down and started crying as I looked over the Atlantic ocean from the balcony at Eko Holiday Inn (in Lagos). I cried uncontrollably because I thought somewhere I got a grandfather here who thought the same way I did for my children two years ago and here I am trying to get away from his ways. I broke down and screamed — “Granddad I love you.” It was just like he had fought to keep me. You know, you don’t want your children to go anywhere and not come back. You want them to be part of you.
Edokpayi- How do you relate with Mohammed Ali, now?
Foreman- In our old age, we’ve come to love each other. I can’t forgive him though for knocking me out. Of course, I am trying to convert him to Christianity and he told me, “I would convert you to a Muslim first.” We talk on the phone and visit all the time.
