A Longer Conversation with Jess Galli of Bungalow by Middlebrow

Better Neighbor

When did you first come to Chicago?

Jess

I came here in 2004 and left in 2008 after I graduated from drama school. By 2008, I knew that I didn’t want a career in theater. I had worked at Sweet Mandy B’s for three years and then worked at the Bourgeois Pig, which was my first baking job. After college, a few of my friends were going to teach English in South Korea, so I went over there

Better Neighbor

What drew the energy out of pursuing theater?

Jess

I think I always knew that it wasn’t going to be the path for me. I have a degree in dramaturgy, which is a very specific form of theater studies, very academic based. In order to succeed in that area you need to continue on in academia. I had thought I might be interested in education or radio, but no longer dramaturgy

Better Neighbor

Why did you decide to go to South Korea?

Jess

It was because I didn’t know what else to do. And, I had the safety net of knowing a few friends who were there. There are very few opportunities in your life where you can be totally untethered and feel free to do anything and go anywhere. That was one of those moments for me

Better Neighbor

What was your experience like in South Korea?

Jess

It sort of felt like an extension of college. I was living in Busan, which is the second largest city in South Korea. There is a huge Western population. All the bars stay open until 6am, so it felt like more of the same. I would teach English in the daytime and then go out and party at night

Better Neighbor

Looking back on that time, do you have a feeling for what kind of experience you were craving?

Jess

Well, I did end up having a lot of fun cooking food in South Korea. My apartment had two, small, electric burners and no oven. Most of my shopping was done at the open-air market. I had the opportunity to learn how to scale and gut a fish, shuck scallops, and taste Korea’s fermentations, which are next level. I ate fresh tofu that was still warm.

And then there are the traditions that they have at the table: how you serve people, the ways you have to be mindful of where your chopsticks are, those extra levels of respect that are passed down. It’s all very interesting to me. That was certainly the immersive experience that I had been craving, but it wasn’t how I had initially envisioned my time there

Better Neighbor

Did you realize that the food was meaningful to you while you were there or was it more in retrospect?

Jess

I think it was meaningful to me at the time. Cooking for my friends and sharing meals with people I love has always been a part of my life. In college, cooking was a big way that I took care of people. The day before our last year of college, we lost one of our very good friends. While we were at the hospital, I told everyone that they had to come over and that I was going to cook food and we should all be together.

Growing up, my father was a chef. He is a very problematic man and had a really hard time showing genuine love other than when he was cooking for us. So, the intention that you put into a meal has become the love language that I understand most deeply. There are so many times where you can be walking down a street or just be in a single moment and the sense-memory of food can be either warm or jarring.

Growing up, I was forced to try a lot of things. I think that there were a lot of new sense-memories that were being created in Korea. I was being exposed to a lot of things that I had never tried before

Better Neighbor

How did you respond to being forced to try new things as a kid?

Jess

You couldn’t really say no. But certainly between my siblings, I was more adventurous and had the largest appetite. So, I would always try something once. Usually, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I did liked things.

On Christmas Eve one time, my Dad cooked eel. I remember the live eel swimming in a bucket in the garage and I didn’t understand that that was what we were going to be having for dinner. I was initially grossed out, but then I tried it and found it was sweet and good. Eel is fucking good

Better Neighbor

So, you are in Korea tasting all of these new things. Did any particular food grab you and stick with you as you moved away from there?

Jess

I think I dialed into all of the things that were sweet. Sweetness doesn’t necessarily just come from candy or fruit. There is also a sweetness that can come from something like dried fish. I dialed into things that were bright. The way fermentation can dance on your tongue and add lift.

My first time in a Korean restaurant was a month or so before I went there. We were jet-lagged the morning that we landed and were offered a mussel and seaweed soup, kimchi, and tea for breakfast. I think being exposed to all sorts of tastes and smells and practices that felt very new to me helped open up my world.

My father is from Italy and we traveled there often. He is Roman Catholic and is also very superstitious. I myself don’t feel religious, but I follow superstitions as well.

In Korean culture, there are a lot of foods that are associated with particularities. For instance, if it’s raining, you should have a certain soup. If it’s your birthday or you are pregnant, something else is suggested. I always liked that practice because I enjoy attaching certain memories and traditions with the things that I’m eating

Better Neighbor

That sounds very intentional, having food traditions be almost prescriptive. Are there flavors that evoke childhood memories that you enjoy recreating for other people?

Jess

There are two things that come to mind. On rainy days, when I was a kid, I loved sitting in my living room with all the lights off and eating a pack of graham crackers and drinking hot cocoa. The other feeling I love recreating is that feeling of waiting on the couch, either watching tv or just being bored. Then, smelling dinner coming from the kitchen, and feeling uncertain of when it’s going to be ready, but feeling hungry and ready to eat… the anticipation, the warmth, the knowledge that it’s going to be good

Better Neighbor

When you were a kid waiting on that couch, what did you hope dinner was going to be?

Jess

My Dad made a potato leek soup with rice that I loved. I think about that soup a lot. I wonder if I’ll ever be able to recreate it. My Mom would make chicken thighs seared in brown butter and served with white rice. To me, it’s just so good

Better Neighbor

You mentioned going to Italy growing up. How often would you visit?

Jess

We went every other year until I was twenty or so. It was a lot. It wasn’t a vacation. My Dad would go there during the summertime and was always busy doing something. So, my sister and I were left under the care of my cousin or our stepmother.

Until I was eight or nine, my aunt and uncle owned a cafe in a town somewhat near where my father and his family grew up. I always enjoyed bussing tables. They had Coca-Cola on draft, gelato, candy, and anything we wanted. It was all available to us. All I wanted to do was work behind the counter, but I didn’t speak Italian.

So, I have a lot of wonderful memories from being around the cafe. We were given a lot of freedom to explore the land and the town.

Better Neighbor

What seemed so great about being behind the counter?

Jess

I think it all led up to working the cash register. As a kid, there’s just something magical about pushing a button and having money come out. I also really liked the dishwasher. I just liked to feel useful and I loved the environment of that cafe

Better Neighbor

How did you know it was time to leave South Korea

Jess

Well, it was a funny time to be over there. It was 2008. I had left the states a few months before Obama was elected and the economy crashed. I felt like I was sidelined from a lot of things that were going on in the U.S.

Better Neighbor

So, it just felt important to come home?

Jess

Yeah, I knew that teaching abroad wasn’t the thing I was going to do. I was mostly trying it out. I am very grateful for my time there, but one year was long enough

Better Neighbor

How did you decide where to come back to?

Jess

I had wanted to come back to the Bay Area and experience what it would be like to live there as an adult. Plus, the person I had been seeing in Chicago was moving there. So, the decision was personal as well as personal-plus

Better Neighbor

Did you work in kitchens once you got back to San Francisco?

Jess

I did. I knew the easiest way to get quick employment would be to find a job as a baker. I didn’t have a ton of experience, just a small lick of common sense. I started working at Batter Bakery. It was run by a young woman and I worked in the kitchen with a bunch of young women. The kitchen space was communal, shared by us, someone who did private dinners, someone who did catering, and a fine dining pop-up that is now a three-starred Michelin restaurant in San Francisco.

It was wild. It was really interesting to see the differences of kitchen culture

Better Neighbor

So, you’re right there seeing how that pop-up runs things. And, you don’t even have to get hired, you can just watch

Jess

Well, I wouldn’t have wanted to be hired over there, just watching them. The people who worked there were very focused and dedicated and sweet, but there are a couple of sides to the coin. The egos that came off the head chef and sous chefs… you would only really garner their respect or attention as a female baker if you were cute enough for it. And, there were certainly some times when I would have tense run-ins with the head chef. I didn’t really respect him very much.

I heard how the cooks were being paid and found it astonishing. For a while, the head chef was collecting all of the tips for his own personal pocket and the cooks were getting shift pay, which didn’t seem enough for what they were working for. We were together in this incubator space, kind of percolating and going in our different directions. Ultimately, they ended up taking over the entire space and we had to move to another shared kitchen

Better Neighbor

What was the experience of getting pushed out like for you all?

Jess

I think there was a sense of uncertainty with moving as well as slowly being affected by the pop-up’s encroaching construction. They were excited about their growth and took up the space. We ended up at a place called La Cocina, which creates opportunities for female entrepreneurs and chefs. It was at La Cocina that I met Richie Nakano, which was the beginning of me connecting with more people in the restaurant scene in San Francisco.

I met people at that time that I still have lasting friendships with and was able to witness practices that I respected. Then, also seeing the dark side of the ways that people abuse their branding, or make shortcuts, or make food that I’m not particularly stoked on.

We worked in shared kitchens for three years before moving into our own brick and mortar. It was there that I received my foundational experience by becoming a manager and helping run the place. All of that stuff was really valuable. But, what I appreciated about that time was having the opportunity to meet people just by sharing space

Better Neighbor

Were you identifying yourself as a baker from the time you moved back to San Francisco?

Jess

I think I identified as a baker from the beginning. I always liked to cook at home, but even as a kid, I wanted to open up a bakery

Better Neighbor

How is the emotion of baking different from the emotion of cooking?

Jess

I think it is a little slower, more project based. Your day is structured much differently than it would be working in a restaurant where you’re coming in, prepping the line, and then there is this whole other part of your day. I have always loved being very efficient with what I’m doing and have the opportunity to do the same thing every single day with production baking.

Certainly, it’s more female-driven. There’s more female energy in bakeries. I guess because the restaurant industry always seemed so volatile and temperamental, I always knew it would not be the environment for me. If I were to do that, it would suck the joy out of something that I enjoy. I really love cooking, but I don’t want to cook in a restaurant

Better Neighbor

I think that’s fair. I think restaurants have earned their reputation. There is certainly an intensity to it… a tendency not to see people and see how those people are faring on a daily basis. What does the structure of baking afford you, having an end to your workday?

Jess

I really love having ownership over the thing that I’m doing, which has made it hard when people compliment bread that I didn’t actually bake. I want to tell them, ‘That was actually Deric, or Marissa, or Bill that baked that bread!’

So, I think that there is so much to be learned from seeing a project all the way through. Having the opportunity, the space, and the support to take a risk and do something a little bit different out of curiosity, just to see what happens. And then, to share it with everybody else.

I wouldn’t say that all baking does this. When I was working at Craftsman and Wolves in San Francisco, recipes had to be dialed in to the gram, the bake time was to-the-second, the process was very robotic. There was no sense of deviance. You would put your initials on things just in case something went wrong

Better Neighbor

That’s interesting. When you say that you like structure, I would think of that as being robotic. How do you feel that your approach is not?

Jess

I would only say that it’s not robotic anymore because of the products that I’m working with. Because my ingredients are alive, they have their own temperament: the bacteria in the dough itself, the starter, the grains that we work with being non-commodity and varying in their performance from crop to crop and season to season.

It’s all something that you have to be attuned to. The day itself. How you are feeling. Those factors turn something that is very routine into a conversation between yourself and what you’re making. That’s why I love bread specifically. Everything that goes into it is alive.

I think that same watchfulness informs how I try to lead the kitchen at Middlebrow: being attentive and empathic to everyone that I’m working with, myself included

Better Neighbor

That’s no easy task

Jess

It’s not

Better Neighbor

To be at the top of the call sheet in a restaurant and still ask yourself, ‘How do I get what I need in order to give what I’d like to give?’

Is your form of leadership modeled after someone who used to manage you?

Jess

Yes, absolutely. Josey Baker. Working at The Mill at Josey Baker Bread was my first experience with naturally leavened dough. So much of the value structure that I try to emulate now is based off of Josey’s leadership. He only wants to grow as much as is sustainable. That really means valuing your yes’s and no’s.

He made sure all of his employees had a sustainable wage and health benefits that they needed in order to live healthy lives. There was levity and lightness to the working environment. He would say, ‘If something goes wrong, blame me for it. But, if something goes right, you should take full credit.’

Josey is a very magnetic person and has cultivated a very wonderful presence. But also, I saw the work he did on himself in order to have the capacity to hold space for his employees and the people around him.

That was really important for me to see. It’s always on days when I haven’t taken care of myself that I am not a great leader in the kitchen. I’m trying to become more aware of that. But, it’s a never-ending process.

I learned a lot about sustainability while working at The Mill. I saw that there was a way to build a business without needing to infinitely say ‘yes’ to everything. That’s something that I’m curious about, now being a part of an opening team for a restaurant. How do I become someone who also says ‘no’ for the sake of making sure the work is sustainable for myself

Better Neighbor

It’s one thing to say, ‘I want to be sustainable!’ Opening a restaurant, you’re investing so much excitement and goodness at first. But then, your ego can get attached and suddenly you realize how deeply entrenched you are in making it work

Jess

Yes. You ask yourself, ‘How did I get here?’

Better Neighbor

How do you check in with yourself now that you are a decision-maker? How do you maintain awareness?

Jess

Sometimes it just hits me. This weekend, it just fucking punched me in the face. I got sick and I felt awful. This last January was really weird for me. It’s the first time where people have fed my ego and I’ve been recognized as the person who is doing ‘the thing’.

It feels weird because so much of what I wanted to do was to create a kitchen full of autonomous people who could see themselves reflected in the menu and feel a sense of ownership. And, it felt strange to get recognition for the work that we are collectively doing. But, it also feels good

Better Neighbor

Yeah, of course! It tastes sweet

Jess

Getting the Jean Banchet Award was really fucking wild. I got an award for ‘Rising Chef’. But, I’m not a chef, I’m a baker. And rising? I’ve been working in this industry for the last ten years.

I think I feel conflicted about being identified as something that I… When I think of a ‘chef’, I think of my volatile father. I think of people who are ego driven. I think of it as masculine. So, a thing that helped me feel excited about winning was that ‘Chef’ is just the title of this award, but what I exhibited was rising excellence in leadership. I want to be a good leader, whether or not I’m baking or cooking

Better Neighbor

From the outside, Middlebrow is representing a different way of operating within this industry. I think it takes a ton of courage to actually pave a new road. Especially with a new restaurant, there is no shortage of outside people telling you who they think you are. How do you remind the staff of your continued vision for the team?

Jess

I continue to have conversations with them and am transparent about the way the restaurant is growing, changing, or staying the same. If things veer off course, I want to acknowledge, apologize, and take ownership for how I could have handled the situation or communicated better.

I want them to understand that this whole thing is still a work in progress, that everyone’s collective experiences are really important to how we function as a whole. I hope that everyone who works there feels they have someone who is safe and comfortable for them to talk to and will hear what they have to say.

For example, we are growing the bread program. It has been a continual conversation and when there are lulls in communication, it inspires anxiety amongst the bakers. So, I decided to start sending out a weekly update, telling them everything I know about what’s going on. I invite them to share any concerns about how changes in the bread program will affect their lives because it has to work for all of us.

So much of what we do is personal. So, to expect people to come to work and leave it all at the door is not realistic

Better Neighbor

Being in Chicago for a year and a half now, where do you see open opportunities for you to share your industry values with the city?

Jess

I love having conversations with others who are leading and opening restaurants. Not that I’m an expert, but I believe there is a better way of treating people and restructuring how kitchens are run. I want to align myself and the company with other like-minded businesses.

I think about how we share space and food. Would I want to sell bread to a business that treats their employees poorly? Does my bread have that much power? I don’t know. But, personally, I want to support and be aligned with restaurants that are challenging archaic systems.

When I was still in San Francisco, I had talked about a code of conduct that could be put on a poster and visually remind us that we pledge to not yell at our cooks, to pay for all hours worked, to provide a schedule two weeks in advance. These sorts of things seem like a no brainer to the average person, but in restaurants can be hard to come by.

I’m also very curious about Tartine and how they unionized. There are huge restaurant groups that still count as small businesses so the employees can’t form a union. But, what would it look like if employees from those big groups could unionize?

Better Neighbor

I think checks and balances are important. It seems like a misnomer that any flattening of the old guard hierarchy would mean eliminating the need for leadership. How do you maintain direction while reimagining leadership?

Jess

It was a struggle. People felt that there was no direction after our head chef left Middlebrow. Part of that was because I wasn’t quite sure of what was going on. I invited people to come to me with questions, but sometimes the answer was that I just didn’t know. I think you can be a leader simply by being the person who solves people’s problems.

What I have found is that people view me as a leader because I usually have an answer or the capacity to help them work through a problem. I usually work three to five days where I’m just baking. I am not going to be right next to them, but they know where to find me.

I also try to check in with myself. For example, a cook came up to me this week and I was feeling sick. They asked me if there was anything they could do for me. I told them to be as self-sustaining as possible. I knew I didn’t have as much to give and told them that I would be available, but that I also knew they could do their work just fine. And, I think it’s okay to be in that place

Better Neighbor

As what kind of person would you like to be remembered in this industry?

Jess

I try to be intentional with everything. I want people who work with me to think that the place where we worked was a good place. I want them to have adjusted the way they value themselves in the kitchen and seek to create those kinds of spaces moving forward.

I want them to see that there is potential for a sustainable life in this industry. I hope that the people who make the pizza feel that they are gaining something as much as the people that make the dough. I want to create safe spaces for people to explore the limitless potential of their own creative minds.

I just want them to think that they had a good job