Did I earn my citizenship?
John the TIB

Wow. I didn’t realize I was talking to a top 1% bigshot. Here, let me doff my cap at your guvner. I suppose you think that since you’re a billionaire that you are right about everything, correct? You simply CANT be wrong, because you were born rich in a society that prizes wealthy aristocrats over everyone else. You are accustomed to being deferred to and that is why you speak in such an insulting way. You aren’t used to having your authority questioned, right? And since you’re such a billionaire, you probably employ a lot of yes-men who will never tell you when you have feces matted in your hair because no yes-man will ever tell you when you’re ate-up.

“We have a country which has defined citizens and defined borders because that’s how a country is defined and that’s how democracy works.”

Hey billionaire: The Soviet Union ALSO had defined citizens and defined borders. They were not a democracy, if you’ve ever looked into that. Tell your yes-men to start telling you when you’re full of crap so you don’t say stupid crap in public.

“The constitution is clear that it doesn’t want foreigners giving money to secretary of states who then transfer 20% of our nuclear stockpiles to Russia.”

Really? Which part? I didn’t know the founders were aware of nuclear weapons. You learn something new every day. I can tell you which part your Trump has been willfully in violation of since day one: the emoluments clause. The purpose of that clause was to prevent a grifter con-man like your Dear Leader from turning us into a fascist dictatorship and also to prevent us from returning to the Feudalism model that Europe was so fond of when we broke away from them. Your party is all about corporate feudalism and electing crotch-grabbers and being racist against immigrants. Oh, and giving all the wealth America creates to billionaires like yourself so you can feel better than everyone else when you trickle down your golden showers from your gold-plated towers.

By the way, if you think your little dig at Hillary is “bothersome” to me, or pushes my buttons you should know that I loathe her for being just as corrupt as your party and making my party look just as much like sell-outs to billionaires like yourself. You won’t win any arguments with me, when I agree with you that Hillary is scum. The difference is that when YOUR party is corrupt, you will pretend they are not. I try to keep my party honest. You use your billions to bribe your party into corruption.

“This is not about earning our right to be Americans.”

Actually, yes, it is. You have not earned anything. Your precious neck has ALWAYS been safe. How many islands have you purchased in case your policies wreck America so badly that you need to escape from here? Is your private jet always kept running like that of most billionaires?

“Why should they get to move here and become citizens if we don’t get to move there and be citizens?”

Because our country has always had as one of its values as the welcoming of the newcomer. This is based upon two things: one, we raped and pillaged the people who lived on these lands for centuries and that is why we are now in charge of it. YOU might be proud of that fact, but most of us non-billionaires are not. The other reason why is because most of our population has traditionally been Christian. Back when that was becoming a national value was an era in which Christians actually read their Bibles and they were aware of things like Matthew 25 where Jesus tells you that he will personally laugh in your face while casting you into the lake of fire permanently if you refuse to welcome strangers into your land. He said this because he as an immigrant. And this punishment is yours even if you have been baptized and undergone every other hazing ritual his churches have invented. He said, “even if you are of my flock” he will laugh right in your face when he tells you that your billions are worth nothing compared to an ounce of compassion.

“logical inconsistency of immigrant supporters…they claim these immigrants are good for America. However, that means they would be good for the country they came from.”

False and magical thinking. They are FLEEING from their countries because the policies of our country have destroyed theirs. China-shop rules: you break it, you own it. Why do you think Syrians want to come here? Because we deliberately destabilized the middle east in an attempt to get control over their oil. Do you think it would be better for Syrians to stay in Syria where they will be murdered? What planet are you from? Planet billionaire?

“My point is that they are not being consistent.” When you deliberately misrepresent our position and then use that as a straw-man you should not be surprised at the conclusion you come up with.

You say we can’t afford immigrants. I say we can’t afford billionaires. Guess which of us is outnumbered, punk. It wasn’t immigrants who destroyed the housing market in 2007. It wasn’t immigrants who deregulated our financial sector, allowing banksters to perform house robberies. It was billionaires; billionaires who do nothing productive for our economy and instead serve as parasites demanding ever greater percentages of our national income and wealth. Self-serving billionaires who rip everyone else off and then claim to be “earning” their money. Billionaires who ship our jobs overseas and only allow them to come back if the job is to be filled by a robot.

“These other countries are shoveling their dissent on us.” Is this a new version of “they’re rapists, they’re murderers”?

“If we allow people to come here just because they want to them hundreds of millions would come.” Absolute baloney. Why do you think I expounded upon what a beautiful country Mexico is? They have PLENTY of reasons to stay. The ONLY reason they would come here is because they have no other choice. Our immigration policy is IRRELEVANT to immigration. They will come here regardless of our official policy. I know that you and the Trump Nazis love the idea of building walls. That is a typically conservative, stone-age reaction and it doesn’t surprise me for a second that some billionaire would suggest such a thing. Its not like billionaires have to actually THINK in order to navigate our complex world (their chauffers might have to, but not the passenger who was born inches from home plate).

“If such a policy was actually a fact half the world would come to get just our social services.” Absolute nonsense. If a person shopped around all the countries of the world for one to emigrate to, and their first criteria was “social programs” they would move to Sweden, Denmark…hell, even Germany. The ONLY reason a person who was not FORCED to move because of their region being destabilized by YOUR PARTY’S POLICIES (such as when Reagan paid death squads to rape nuns to death in El Salvador) would be to move here in order to get free tax subsidies that we give to billionaires for the asking. Why you think the Russian mob is here? It isn’t for the government cheese….

“It’s also RACIST and a form of slavery. All illegal immigrants are second class citizens without the same rights as actual Americans. That is the definition of racism and slavery. The democrats again prove they are the racist and slave owners and are the ones pissed because they lost their slaves. They just want Mexican slaves now.”

Absolutely no clue what you’re going on about here. You provide nothing to back it up. If you’re referring to unfair marketplace activities due to an immigrant’s legal, it is mostly conservative firms who want immigrants to have zero rights and hire them because they want a workforce that has zero rights. You know, like how the Tories who always supported the king of England also wanted to keep slavery going forever and even started a war via sneak attack (the favorite means for fascists of starting wars, from the Confederates to Adolf Hitler who was inspired by them to the Cheney\Bush war-crime and torture regime). Countries that give a damn about their moral reputation formally declare war before attacking. What right do we have to complain about Pearl Harbor when we also have engaged in “preemptive” strikes against countries who have never taken up arms against us? I’m not saying we have no right to complain, I’m saying we should NOT behave like that.

“I have a formula : immigration rate = economic Growth rate — social insurance.”

Your formula is stupid. Have you ever taken a formal economics class? Growth is based on FAR more than just two other variables. Also, social insurance is a net PLUS for an economy because there are much fewer unused resources (that is, unemployed workers) when workers actually have real access to education, nutrition and a chance to live a decent life. Unfortunately, that kind of money isn’t laying around because we give the lions share of income and wealth to billionaires like yourself who simply are NOT productive enough to turn all that wealth into growth. How many yachts do you care to own? Enough to keep the country’s economy running? No way in hell. A well-known conservative, billionaire asskissing argument goes like this: “Even if all of you, and every other billionaire, were stripped of your wealth and it was redistributed it would make very little difference in the lives of those on the receiving end”. So how you could prop up an economy with just your consumption alone baffles me. But for some reason conservative economics expects you to consume so much that you employ the entire country. You better get to it instead of wasting valuable time on the internet arguing with someone beneath your station and not even in your top 1% class.

“Obama grew the economy at 1% / year for 8 years the slowest rate in 100 years.”

Not the slowest rate in 100 years, despite your hyperbole. Like many conservative billionaires, you tend to forget all about the great depression (probably because it was caused by conservative billionaires and likely you guys probably would like to forget, and for everyone else to forget, that episode). Also, you neglect to mention that Obama was handed the sickest economy since Hoover bequeathed the great depression to FDR. Rush Limbaugh’s claims that Obama was “magic” notwithstanding, economies do not turn around overnight. And ours was particularly sick due to all the deregulation and legalized fraud that you billionaires bribed lawmakers into putting into amendments to unrelated bills. That he turned our economy around at all, *especially* when confronted with the most obstructionist congress in history, is nothing short of an economic miracle. Imagine how much better our economy would have been if your party hadn’t lost its shit over Obama’s skin color and demanded of your representatives that they block EVERYTHING.

“Switzerland has a program which based on growth rate ejects or lets in people. Out system should have similar design.”

That sounds like a great idea. Only how about they actually deport the people who had some means of controlling whether the economy grew or not? Like, how about since despite 30+ years of tinkle-down economics, since it has not yet provided even one job, we deport all the billionaires for lying to us and/or buying congressional seats for those who lie to us?

I’d rather have a citizen who walked through hell to get here, than yet another silver-spoon whose most ingenious skill is securing for himself massive tax cuts.

“Democrats are dumb to think they can grow the economy at the slowest rate in 100 years and increase social insurance and then let in millions of immigrants. It’s stupid and suicidal.”

As I pointed out earlier, you forgot about the great depression. You probably got that statistic “slowest rate in 100 years” from either “Breitbart” or “your ass” but you’re full of it. A majority of voters in 2008 wanted that increase in social insurance. Obama actually “ran” on it. And he got it done, with no help from the original architects of the plan, the right, because they did not want their voters to see them in public shaking hands with a black man. It was just too much. It was a bridge too far. Mitt Romney ran against his own plan that he implemented in Massachusetts, because it was more publicly connected to the right and therefore he had to dismiss it as a youthful indiscretion. It was designed at the Heritage Institute, that hotbed of liberals. Obama picked that model, among others to choose from, after having won an election with a mandate to reform our healthcare system. He chose your party’s freaking plan. But picking your own policy was just such a horrible, divisive thing to do that you guys had to have a tea party and demand to see his birth certificate. Absolutely ridiculous to deny that racism had nothing to do with that. Obama chose the GOP model for health reform because he believed it was better than the current policy of “do nothing” which was resulting in medical inflation rates 10% higher than the prime rate which had been going on for several decades. And he also believed that if he tried anything but the GOP model, he would never get any republicans to vote for it and he really wanted it to be a bi-partisan thing. He wanted something that would stick. And congress actually followed suit in that way. Despite tea party and GOP lies of not being included in the decisionmaking, the bill was hashed out in a great number of committees and republicans were allowed to add amendments. Contrast that to Trumperycare where they won’t even tell their own members what is in the bill and only promise them that it’ll be great and then unveil it with just barely enough time for the CBO to score it before voting. That is a truly exclusive process, excluding even their own backbenchers.

And this part is where you just fly off on the deep end:

“Democrats usual hateful stupidity

You see your points are simply the typical democratic HATESPEECH that is completely stupid shit idiocy. You call everyone fucking racist when it is you who are advocating second class slave people. It is you who promote hate by promoting policies that are not in the US interest and are suicidal. Then you call everyone racist that is arguing to restore common sense.

Fuck you and your racist bulllshit. You are the fucking racist asshole. Pay your fucking taxes you cheat and I hope that little girl you had files lawsuit.”

That you have the nerve to call anyone else hateful or stupid is hilarious. You create straw-man arguments in which your opponent is somehow “advocating second class slave people”? I mean, I could see an honest if incorrect argument that secondary effects could result in a raw deal. But you’re claiming that this is the primary effect: the intention of welcoming those who walked through hell to get here, those whom I argue would be the hardest of workers and the most loyal of citizens…as advocating for putting that same person in chains. Holy crap. You are really just full of your own hatred for anyone who disagrees with you. Pointing out the flaws in your arguments is labeled “hate speech”? Is that because I said it and it caused you to feel hate? Could you at least cite something I said? Quote me? Tell me what I said that is so hateful that you made such an accusation? If I am wrong, or was too mean, let me know so I can learn from the experience. Don’t just label what I say “hate speech” and not provide an example. I am correctable. I am not perfect and there is always room to learn. Humility is anti-matter to fascism, and I try to live that. So if I have wronged you let me know so that I can learn from it. I know that I can be abrasive and I try not to be, but this is the internet and its very easy to blast off and click ‘publish’. Many of us could be better about that; I am not alone. For that reason, here on the internet, we try to have thick skins and not go absolute nuts as a way of closing a long, thought out post. Not sure what happened with you but I can get past it.

As for your last few sentences, just put the bottle down, man.