Asking, Not Telling

Inspired by Tomas Koolhaas who is documenting his Dad’s life and career, I sat my father, John L. Roman, down for an afternoon interview about making movies.

Why did you get into producing?
I started out in college wanting to be an actor and left college wanting to be a director. Worked for years as an assistant director. During that time, I realized I wanted more control and ownership of the projects than directing would allow.

Years ago, a friend of my parents — VP big muck in the media business — asked me what I wanted to do while I was in college. When I said I wanted to direct, he said “why don’t you direct ten directors?” Strangely enough, I spent the better part of my career doing just that.

You started working in Detroit. What was your first film-related job?
Washing cars for $3.50 an hour to get them ready for photography for a GM announcement show.

What’s an announcement show?
All the car companies each Fall present their new vehicles and their innovations with words from executives. This is all done in a large show shot on film or hi-def over multiple days to make everything look slick. It then gets presented in a big multimedia format in Vegas or New York or LA — wherever the convention is.

How do you go from that to being an AD?
I started the Summer washing cars and ended the Summer as the Assistant Director. Mostly because the kid who was doing the job kinda sucked. I was in the Director’s Guild a year later as an AD.

When I said I wanted to direct, he said “why don’t you direct ten directors?”

Somehow you ended up in Chicago.
Working in Detroit, I met many out of town directors and production companies. While numerous companies urged me to move to LA, Don Carlson, a Chicago director connected me to an interview there. The job was a 2nd AD gig on a TV show for NBC called Chicago Story. After the interview, I didn’t hear from them for six weeks and I packed my boxes for Los Angeles. One day in late August of ‘81, I got a call to be in Chicago in two weeks.

So, I came to Chicago a single 2nd AD and I left 17 years later a married producer with two kids, a dog and a minivan.

A couple years ago, you headed back to Chicago to do Chicago Fire. What was that like?

It was tremendous to reconnect with a number of crew members that I had worked with many years before. Also, there were several kids who worked on my crew who were children of people I’d worked with as a young man. It was very satisfying to create a new show with them years later and make something great happen in Chicago.

What had changed about shooting in Chicago?
The city had gotten bigger — more muffed and buffed. But, they had forgotten a lot of what they had learned about filming in the ‘80s and early ‘90s. The infrastructure of film had fallen down — rental houses were small or non-existent. Skilled local talent like ADs, camera people, other technicians were no longer in town as they had to go to other cities to get work. The town was scrapping for work for a number of years.
Then, the Governor and legislature wisely reinstated a tax incentive that started to bring the work back a couple of years ago. Nick who started up Cinespace in Toronto came to Chicago and created Cinespace there. He was instrumental in bringing the work back.

When Chicago PD started last year, the town was incredibly busy and the infrastructure and crew were rising to met the needs. Very cool.

You’re finally in LA. What took you so long?
I was working all over the country. Spent a lot of time in New York. Ended up back in Chicago. After wrapping up Fire, the time is right for LA.

Do you remember your first trip to LA?
1979. When I got off the plane at Ontario airport, it smelled like film and I was 50 miles from Hollywood. I was here to do a Chrysler car shoot at the old Riverside race track. My great director Frank Garnetti and his producing partner Frank Marra wanted to show me Hollywood. One night, they drove me into town. We had dinner, caught a Comedy Store show and I got my first look at Sunset Boulevard. I really appreciated that and I will never forget it.

You’ve worked with some iconic artists over the years — Harold Ramis, Sammy Davis, Jr., Dolly Parton. Who has left a lasting impression on your work?
Harold Ramis, for sure. It’s not so much the people in front of the camera — it’s the behind the scenes people like Ramis that influenced me the most. Cinematographers like John Toll and Don Burgess who I worked with long before they won their Academy Awards. I was influenced by watching guys like that shoot. John Bailey — on Groundhog Day. Cinematographers who were off the charts impressive and nice people. I took a little piece of each of these great artists.

Also, Don Morgan — who is an excellent cinematographer. We shot some Cadillac commercials in the ‘80s. I learned a ton from him about the mechanics of moviemaking and it wasn’t even that long a shoot. Would be remiss not to mention the original cinematographer of Criminal Intent, Frank Prinzi, who is a true artist who helped make that series what it was. A great partner.

I remember when I was in film school you always had me watching Frank Prinzi light scenes. What about writers or directors?
Rene Balcer, Warren Leight, Matt Olmstead, Mike [Brandt] and Derek [Haas]. But let’s not forget the biggest influence on my entire career is a writer named Dick Wolf. Connecting with him was a gift. We did great work together. He considered me a good filmmaking partner. He is a terrific writer, producer and boss.

There are too many directors to name them all but some of the great ones I worked with have influenced my work and career for years. Guys like Don Scardino, Gus Makris, Jean de Segonzac, Steve Shill, Mike Slovis, Tom DiCillo, and Norberto Barba. I know I’m missing many names but those are some of the ones I still stay in contact with.

What makes a great filmmaker?
Vision, resilience and an unwillingness to do crappy work.

Don’t you mean a commitment to quality work?
No, it’s a different thing.

Why?
Many times you’re pushed to do crappier work because of time and money and the exigencies of the situation. You must always fight against that. And yet, at the end of the day, the film must be in the can. Or the 1s and 0s as it were.

The industry has to walk the line between Gone with the Wind and the cat videos.

Speaking of 1s and 0s, how is digital affecting your work?
Digital is going to allow us see a sliding scale of crews depending on the size the production requires. The lengths of the shoots will no longer be in halves and hours. One could be filming something in a three minute, thirty minute or three hour format. In the near future, a forty to fifty person crew should be able to handle a drama or a comedy using two digital cameras and no more than ten to twelve hour work days. The amount of shooting days will always depend on the economics of the project going forward. Right now, we’re working with an archaic model — if you’re doing a drama for a network, they expect you to shoot an episode in eight days. But if you’re shooting The Sopranos, you may need fourteen days. If you’re shooting Chicago Fire, you will need ten. It’s an agonizing dance of art and commerce trying to fit into the predetermined paradigm the networks budget and plan for. It is becoming an even more difficult struggle.

What we have to sort out is the economics. Kids now are able to make a movie on an iPhone. The industry has to walk the line between Gone with the Wind and the cat videos. Because frankly some of those cat videos got more views than the last blockbuster Michael Bay put out.

What do you think will happen in the next ten years for film and television?
It’s going to require everyone in New York and Hollywood — Unions, film offices, local politicians, technicians — to reinvent themselves and be prepared for different styles of production. More affordable, more doable, more cinéma vérité.

The networks will evolve more into on demand content providers as opposed to appointment couch viewing. And as filmmakers, we have to be ready to morph with the demands of new media and the audiences. The business model of basing same day viewing ratings/ad rates is already gone. If we expect to continue to work in the business, we have to be prepared for new business models. Fees, rates will change. There will be new options, less difficulties creating production, and more opportunities for where we create, present and distribute our TV and movies. At the end of the day, to create good entertainment cinema still requires a story, an actor, a director, a producer and a crew. The expectation is that even though there’s less money per project, there will be more than enough work for everyone from Spielberg to the kid with the cell phone.

“Asking, Not Telling” is a phrase Dad uses often on set from the great filmmaking wisdom of Bobby Hudecek. It refers to not giving orders, just trying to specify the director’s vision. Follow him on Twitter @johnlroman or check out his brand new blog at johnlroman.com