13. Chatting with Vivian Chan, Fashion Entrepreneur

Hey there, welcome to Chatting with Asians.

On this episode, I have a heart-to-heart with Vivian Chan, co-founder of a fashion company called East Meets Dress along with her best friend and co-founder. They design modern Chinese wedding dresses or cheongsams for Asian Americans. We talked about her experiences growing up with a single mother, how coming out to her friends was a totally different experience than with her family and why she decided not to pursue med school after going to Yale for pre-med. So here’s my chat with Vivian.

Angie: Great, well, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Vivian Chan: Thank you so much for having me.

You and I met at a meet up with Lucia from Rock the Boat podcast and we had such a wonderful conversation afterwards. And I feel like we have so much more to talk about because you definitely had an unconventional life both personally and professionally so I would love to start off by talking about your family first because you grew up in a household mainly made up of strong women. In your perspective, where do you see their strengths come from? Do you think it’s from juggling a lot of jobs or supporting the family or being leaders in non-traditional spaces?

Yeah, I think, you know, I think a lot of the strength from them comes from a combination of both necessity and having this immigrant mentality where you need to do whatever it takes to survive and provide for your family and I think throughout history women have had to be very multi-faceted and balance work, life, kids etcetera and then they display the most strength when it comes to sacrificing for their own family and children. For my mom, she’s the strongest and most resilient woman I know and I think her strengths really came from having to raise me by herself as a single mom and she works 2 jobs 16 hours a day just so she could give me a better life and she didn’t really have a choice, you know, when it came to following her passion for her career, job, but rather for her it was just taking advantage of whatever opportunity was out there that she saw and she always had this mindset that yeah, you know your life might not always be fair, might suck at some times but it’s still within your control to make something out of it and do better for yourself as long as you’re willing to work hard and not give up and so I think both that that mentality and her strength from having to just raise me. There’s no other choice really that that’s where it comes from and I’m really really really grateful that I do have my mom and a lot of all these other strong women in my family.

Yeah, and I think the idea that there really isn’t a choice, you just have to do what you need to do to provide for the family, that’s a mentality I feel like a lot of Asian American kids especially of our generation can probably really relate to especially if our parents were immigrants.

Yeah.

Coming to America for the first time like I feel like for my parents that was also the same thing where my parents technically didn’t really live together. It wasn’t because they were having fights or, you know, they were separated by any legal strat. It was just more so because my dad had to work somewhere else than my mom had to, you know, in order to provide for the family. And so yeah, that’s definitely a topic that most Asian American kids I think can definitely relate to.

Yeah, definitely. You just kind of do it out of necessity too. Yeah, so I guess because you’ve had such strong female figures within your family. How do you think that’s shaped you personally as an Asian-American woman yourself?

You know on one hand, I think in Asian culture there is this tendency to really focus on the community rather than the individual and there’s like a larger sense of duty risk aversion. And where is growing up in American culture, I think there’s more of an emphasis on individuality, being unique and following your passions. And for me, I’m sure you can relate to this as well yourself, you know, I’ve always straddle between these two worlds of being Asian and American. I’ve always had a natural curiosity to try new things and experiences and lead an unconventional and non-traditional life, especially now that I started my own company. But I’m still very much shaped by the Asian values that I grew up with it particularly with seeing my mom’s work ethic, you know, her sense of delayed gratification and just her ability to sacrifice her own wants and needs just for the greater good and for her child and those things have always shaped me and everything that I do and even now I think they’re definitely mindsets that I turn to daily as I’m charging my own path to success. So even though I have a very different life and path than my mom did, I’m still very much graceful and have been Inspired by how she’s lived her life and work hard throughout her life. And so I very much like use those skill sets and that mentality in what I’m doing now.

Yeah, and that’s such a beautiful thing to kind of recognize especially for Asian American kids growing up, right, it’s really having that one foot in the Asian culture door and the other foot in the American culture door so to speak. But I think what’s really amazing and each person has their own different experience about this, but we each take away the good and bad parts of each culture and adapt to it in a way that, you know, hopefully fits us in our own lifestyle or in our own daily lives, whatever that may look like.

Yeah, and I love that about you know being Asian-American is really like you said, you can take the best of both worlds and make it your own. I think that that’s kind of how a lot of us live our lives now. It’s influenced by both our parents values, but then also, you know, on the other hand we’re exploring an uncharted territory and doing things our parents never would have thought of it in many cases…might not even approve of.

Yeah, exactly. I think we’ve all been there many times.

Yeah.

So cool. So one of the next questions I had really revolves around the reason why I wanted to bring more diverse Asian-American voices into the podcast including lgbtq voices so when you were growing up, you started noticing girls and feeling differently towards them. For you, was there ever in like a lightning a-ha moment where you began to identify yourself as lesbian or did you feel like it was a slower journey to discovering that part of you?

Yeah, I think for me and everyone’s journey’s very different but I always knew at an early age that I was attracted to girls. I knew it was more than just an objective like, oh, I think she’s pretty kind of thing but really a deeper type of attraction and romantic feeling that I just never had with guys. I remember in 3rd grade that was kind of the aha moment for me, there is this sixth grader who she was like the president of student council at the school and for some reason I just had a huge crush on her and she was super smart and pretty and obviously she was a sixth-grader which was a big deal at that time but I also knew that at that young age this was something that was it normal or acceptable to really tell anyone about so I knew as a girl you were supposed to like and talk about boys not about other girls, and so this was just something that about me that I just hid and kept a secret for a really long time. So, while I always knew I never openly identified as being lesbian, I think back then there was such a huge stigma around being gay and being lesbian that I also never wanted to draw this attention to this part of me and have anyone judge or think less of me and my abilities if I identified myself. It’s really sad to say but I think the environment back then was also just less friendly than it is today and I definitely got bullied in school for even being a tomboy and there weren’t many role models that I can even think of back then or knew about who were openly gay and so it was just something that I discovered early on but hid for most of my entire life.

Yeah, no, I mean I can’t even imagine just how tough that must have been to kind of reconcile with yourself.

Yeah.

And totally understandably in parts are kind of like, protect yourself or protect family or ,you know, and the feeling of just not opening that chapter of your life just yet. But I think it is really amazing and I think when we had our initial conversation, it was really just one of your most forefront like admirable qualities about you is that you’re so willing to share about your story of coming out when you were ready to.

Yeah, thank you for that. I think it’s definitely something that I struggled with for most of my entire life, but once I did come out to friends and family it felt like a weight was lifted off your shoulders and you just feel much more comfortable speaking about it now. And you know, I think my willingness to share also is a part of that like I just feel so much more comfortable. Not afraid, not ashamed anymore, than, you know, I was 5, 10 years ago or even growing up.

Yeah, and it’s, I think it’s so important to be able to share these kinds of stories if it’s within your own comfortable,I don’t know, like comfort level. I think just because we definitely need to have more role models and more examples of people who are dealing with this, you know, if there are any younger people who are listening to this episode and hopefully and they find that your story was very courageous and they want to emulate that, I think it would be such a great thing. Yeah, so I guess talking about like inspirations and at all these things like when you think back to when you first came out to your friends, what really inspired you to do? So like what was that…aas there like a moment where you just thought enough is enough?

So I came out to my friends my senior year of college and I think there were a couple of things that inspired me to do so, one, so this was early 2013 and I think the climate then was just so different than back when I was in middle or high school and we were right on the cusp of same-sex marriage being legalized and so many people had…fought so hard for that. There was I think the shift in climate and people starting to recognize lgbtq stories and people and their lives, you know, are just as important and I was at a liberal college campus where I also felt safe and comfortable to do so and I had a really close group of friends that I just trusted and felt really comfortable around and I knew they would accept me for who I am if I chose to tell them and I think part of any good friendship is that you want that friendship to evolve over time and I didn’t want to hinder that growth with my closest friends, especially if I had to continue to hide this huge part of me. I just thought, you know, man, I’ll never be able to share with my closest friends like a huge part of my identity if I’m in a relationship with anyone or if I’m doing something, I just would always have to hide this if I didn’t come out and part of that also is like just tired of doing that and, you know, lastly I was in a serious relationship at that point with someone that it wasn’t just a fling and I wanted to be able to openly share this with my friends. And so I think a combination of all those factors like really helped in inspired me to just come out and I felt really good to do so. It was scary, for sure, because I was already a senior college and so they’re like, “What? I’ve known you since freshman year and I have no idea.” And it’s like, “Yeah, you know, I’ve always knew but it wasn’t the right time for me, but now it is,” and so, and I’m really grateful that they were so receptive and open to letting me find the right time to tell them. I think you know a lot of times people’s natural reactions like, “Why didn’t you tell me sooner,” and I…”You could have told me so long ago,” but really everyone has a different time where they feel comfortable and so my friends are really great and understanding that I didn’t feel comfortable until now really to tell them and they were super super receptive and loving and accepting and so I’m really grateful for that.

That’s amazing. That’s so amazing that you were able to have that just network and community and friends and just like and now they were so accepting of it. That is amazing. Yeah, I know that coming out to your family was a different situation. So for, like for yourself, how did your mom and the rest of your family take it when you came out?

Yes, so I came out to my mom after I came out to my friends. Like not even immediately, after probably a year or so after in, coming out to my mom was the hardest part. I think one of the most difficult things I’ve ever had to do. And you know, I love my Mom. This is going to be a little emotional but she’s my biggest role model and someone that I really look up to seeing her work so hard to raise me. She didn’t have a lot of money growing up. She didn’t go to college. I always wanted to just do my part and whatever I could to make her proud and you know up until that point I did everything in my life that was in line with that, you know, being valedictorian, going to Yale, being on track to becoming a doctor’s…like check check check, so being gay and coming out I knew would be just letting her down and kind of like rocking her world and disappointing her. So for most of my life, I really thought that I would just hide this part of me from her and not make her sad. I just wanted her to be happy more so than I wanted myself to be happy. So when I first told her it was over the phone and my mom she’s super outgoing, extroverted person and I remember when I came out to her there was just silence, is a kind of like somber, uncomfortable silence that kind of just like sinks to the bottom of your stomach, you know, after it felt like years of silence but really probably was just like five seconds, but she then said very calmly that she always had a feeling that I was gay but never wanted to acknowledge it. It’s kind of like if you don’t say it’s not true and don’t ask don’t tell the type of mentality and I think what hurt. what made me feel the most sad was she asked if it was something that she did or because I never had any good male role models in my life and somehow that was like her faultl which obviously is not and I just felt really sad to know that she felt responsible in any way for me being gay like one there’s nothing wrong with being gay and two there’s nothing, she was like, you know, I love my mom. She was such a great mom. She did everything right to raise me. There’s nothing that you know would have changed that and nothing that she did wrong to make me gay or anything and I think we had a very honest conversation, it was probably one of the most honest conversations I’ve had with my mom. We don’t really share our feelings or emotions with one another that often but since it’s been almost five years since coming out to her and while she’s not openly like talking about or bragging about me being gay or talking about my relationship with my partner with everyone else, I think there’s this like silence acknowledgement and acceptance in Chinese culture that sometimes also the best that you can get in. She’s definitely come around a lot since then and she’s more open to talking about my relationship with my partner and me. It’s kind of like a slow transition from just calling my partner my friend all the time now to like saying her name and inviting her to come back on holiday. So, that is kind of like her subtle way of showing acceptance to me. And I think for the rest of my family, I’m not super close with everyone in my family and I also live in another state so the ones that I am close to and quite important in my life I have come out to but I also know that if I came out to everyone in my entire family and my extended family, a lot of the burden would actually be placed on my mom and I just also part of me doesn’t want that she has to interact with them daily whereas I can remove myself from that, and she can’t. And so I think there’s this great Netflix documentary called All in My Family that…

I just watched it.

Yeah oh my God, amazing! I would love to talk about it with you, yeah, it’s about an Asian man coming out to his family. Its super raw, super emotional, I highly recommended it. At the end of the documentary, I think he said something like that really hit home to me. It’s just, when you’re young, you know, you think that the truth is more important than anything else and as you get older, you realize that while living your truth is very important, there are also other things that are important to consider, like other people’s feelings and as long as you don’t have to live in a lie, and you’re not being denied to live the way you want, you know, sometimes, I think for me, it’s less important to come out to every single person in my family than it is to like preserve, you know, my mom’s feelings while still being able to live my own life, you know elsewhere. So I think that kind of just was a great way to summarize what I feel.

Yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah, you almost made me cry. Because it is such a touching like bittersweet kind of story.

Yeah.

Yeah, same thing for the documentary and like I think it kind of just ties back to the whole being Asian-American, right, having that dual identity of relating to both the Asian culture and the American culture and I think sometimes when we grow up, especially with these two extreme like mentalities of individualism and you know community-driven, I think we, I’m only speaking for on my behalf, I think in an ideal world it would be nice to just like to choose the American version of life or choose the Chinese version of life.

Yeah.

You know, and so I think it would be nice to aim for a future where your parents always happily accept any partner that you have ‘cos like even for myself the last guy that I dated, my last boyfriend, we had been together for over 5 years and I can’t tell you how long it took my dad to like finally just accept that his adult daughter was just dating people like… her boyfriend…what is this? And so ideally I think I would have wished that my dad would have been happy to just call him my boyfriend. It just time and like it still wasn’t very comfortable but maybe that’s the middle ground where the both of us can be and I think maybe Asian American people like especially for our generation have those moments where meeting the middle ground might be just the best thing to happen.

Yeah, yeah definitely. I think it’s very common to have, to like meet in the middle and like compromise and but I think it, there’s also like, there’s beauty in that too. And I think it would be very selfish of me just to do everything I want and not consider my family and my mom’s emotions but at the same time it would totally suck if they didn’t acknowledge who I was in my life. So, yeah, it’s kind of like living in that gray area but that’s kind of just life.

Yeah, and I think it just also makes you appreciate, I would imagine like the friends that have been very accepting and supportive of your journey and just being able to have the chosen family is also, it just reminds you like how much it’s so nice to have your chosen family too.

Yeah, definitely.

Oh boy, lots of emotions here. So I guess the next question I had was from your own personal experience, do you have any opinions or thoughts and like what the most pressing lgbtq issues are like specifically within the Asian American community?

Yeah, I think. I would say visibility and communication. So visibility, I think there’s already a lack of Asian-American representation in media and film and when you just add another layer of lgbtq on top of that, it means there’s even a smaller representation of us out there. I remember when I was in high school growing up, I’m watching this Asian lgbtq movie called Saving Face. I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of it.

I don’t think so.

It’s one of my all-time favorite lgbtq movies and it just meant so much to me that this movie existed because it hit home for me in so many ways. I was in high school, I was dealing with all these emotions being gay, not coming out to anyone and this was a movie that I hardcore like google search, I search everywhere and found on the internet somehow and it was also written by and played by Asian-American actors and this movie was made in 2004. And since then, not to mention before 2004 there just aren’t many other movies out there that are so thoughtful, well-written and speak to the Asian American lgbtq experience. So, I think really visibility is huge for me. I think a lot of people even a lot of young folks out there who are still in the closet and haven’t come out yet, finding these like films, these like sources and other people who they can see who look like them and speaking to them and understand their story is so important just makes you feel normal, you know, that’s…there are others out there who can relate to you and I think we just don’t have enough of that. And communication, I think is another issue. I think in Asian culture it’s very common to suppress or like hide your feelings and emotions, especially hiding anything that’s shameful within the family rather than talk about it openly, you know, like and let’s not talk about this, let’s just sweep it under the rug…how’s your day going really? Where do you want to eat now? Right? Let’s not talk about this awkward thing, let’s just talk about…

Just eat more, eat more.

Yeah, just eat more, eat more, change the topic.

You want another bowl of rice?

Yeah, exactly, so I can’t even imagine watching for example Saving Face with my mom and like having a conversation with it without being open but I think it’s important to be able to do that and it’s really hard to change the dialogue and to improve acceptance of lgbtq issues if we can’t communicate openly about it with our parents or family and our friends. I don’t think these issues are solved overnight, but I think the more visibility we have, the more we’re talking about this openly, like even having a conversation today with you about it hopefully, you know, others are doing the same. That slowly will help change the conversation and hopefully improve things moving forward.

Yeah, those two things that you pointed out are definitely something that are very specific to the Asian-American kind of upbringing too. Yeah, and so I think if you identify as being part of like the lgbtq community then definitely, you know, it’s even more impacted, right?

Yeah, definitely and like we all know it took so long just to have a movie like Crazy Rich Asians.

I know.

Coming to the mainstream, that definitely helps so much with our visibility and I hope we can keep doing that.

I think it’s been amazing. Like kind of sidetracking to the whole Crazy Rich Asians and why it took so long and why it’s been so good now. I, for me, personally I thought the movie was fine. It wasn’t my most favorite movie but I think It was so important because I’ve now been seeing so many other like Initiatives to have Asian voices in media, whether it’s through a bunch of new podcast now or small movies and shorts or writing. I know there’s that like super popular Facebook group called Asian creative Network and that’s been amazing to follow because like every day there’s always someone reaching out, wanting to bring in more Asian voices to more mainstream projects. Yeah, so I think it’s been a really good like starting off point for hopefully more diversity.

Yeah, yeah. Definitely, I agree and I think it’s been so great that even you know like Pixar had that short movie Bao.

Yeah, yeah.

So, like Asian-inspired and that’s just amazing to see that on the mainstream. I think you know as more of these initiatives take place and it becomes more mainstream. I think there will be a much bigger acceptance towards Asian American culture or Asian Americans who are LGBT.

It just occurred to me, I forgot what the name of the new…not the new but the upcoming Awkwafina movie.

I know she was in Ocean’s 8.

The Farewell.

Oh my gosh, I have not seen this trailer. Okay.

Oh my gosh, you need to watch that ‘cos so I was like thinking kind of consuming all from like our last point in the conversation, I think it’s really cool that a film studio like A24 has really been investing in stories that aren’t told by bigger Hollywood production. Yeah, I feel like A24 has been doing a really good job with that. And so The Farewell, that’s a new movie that they’ve been producing with Awkwafina as a lead and it’s very much specifically like she is an Asian-American woman who goes back to China because her…she finds out from her parents and like the rest of the family that her grandma is dying, I guess because of cancer but no one’s told grandma that she has cancer and they feel like the best way to deal with it is just to not tell her and to just like throw a wedding and just like be happy but it definitely looks like it really conflicts with Awkwafina’s like own personal values of like that they were living a lie, and, you know, is it fake and all these things…so it looks so good and I can’t wait till it comes out.

Oh my gosh, I can’t wait till, yeah, and that just sounds so relatable to Asian culture just not talking about it, let’s move on.

And it’s just so important to have those kind of stories ‘cos like you know I think when people think of Asian movies they probably think like Kung Fu or Jackie Chan or just like…okay but not all of us do that and also not all of us are Chinese right.

Exactly.

So yeah, there’s a lot of diversity to explore. It’s a good moment. It’s a good time.

Yeah.

Yeah, the next question I had for yourself or you know for your own opinions, what do you think has been the biggest blessing since coming out?

I think just being able to live my life openly with my partner and not having to lie or make any excuses about my life anymore. I think growing up I was so used to just I’m too busy with work or school to be dating anyone and just always coming up with lies or excuses as to why I’m not dating a guy and now just being able to bring home my partner for the holidays and not have to say she’s just a friend but and that were dating and in a relationship…to get there is just, it is so nice to have and I think that’s definitely been one of the biggest blessing since coming out, is just you’re no longer have to hide that part of your life for yourself.

Yeah, that’s really beautiful and I’m so glad that you’re at a point in your own personal life where you can feel that sense of freedom, right? Especially with your partner. Yeah, I know we’ve talked a lot about your personal life so kinda if you wanna take a breather or a little break we can definitely move into your professional life ‘cos I think that’s definitely also been a very fascinating story that I’ve heard from you especially interesting to me that you went to Yale suppose to pre-med and then decided not to follow through with med school afterwards. What motivated you to come to that decision?

I think and I realize this might not be true of every Asian family’s, I don’t want to overgeneralize but I think there’s a very defined idea of success in Asian families and it’s very limiting. It’s either be a lawyer or a doctor and these are the most respectable and stable professions that make a lot of money. So, I always felt like I have to be one of those in order to be successful. I also didn’t know any other path to success. Other than, that and it happened so that I was better at science and love biology so I just chose pre-med could have gone the other way, but I never really reflected on what I wanted in life and what would surely make me happy and it wasn’t until college that I even realize there were so many other possibilities and career paths out there and traveling, living abroad, meeting diverse people, all of these helped expand my horizons and I think once that happened, you know, I realize like I didn’t want to spend the next ten years going to med school doing residency only to end up doing something that I won’t even be happy with and was something that was more of my naive conception of success growing up and you know definitely for many people medicine is their passion and they’re born to do with and they want to make a huge impact through that and that’s amazing. I have lots of friends who are going to be doctors, but I think for me it was just always that I just had a very very, you know, define limited idea of success and I didn’t know anything else until college open up my eyes and now realizing that I decided well better make the decision to not go to med school now then go and be stuck or…

Exactly.

Yeah.

I also feel very similarly towards like redefining what success looks like just because for myself like it’s so interesting. I’m coming out of stage of my life that I’m turning 30 this year and realizing that I just want to spend more time with my family and my friends in a way that’s not as hanging out or just watching TV, but like traveling with them or exploring new places, and so it’s been interesting ‘cos I have now come to the slow acceptance of like what success means to me nowadays is having the flexibility to spend time with them in a way. That’s like more memorable and more impactful. Yeah, and I think I used to be very certain of success was lots of money and cars and houses and mansions and like…you know all those things and it’s certainly not the case.

Totally resonate with that. I love that.

I can’t even imagine, was it difficult for your family to hear that you weren’t going to follow through with med school afterwards?

Yeah, I think you for my mom she thought this was a phase similar to how my sexuality must be a phase and that I would just kind of get over once I’m older. I’d come around to it and then I would go into med school but it has been quite some time now, so she’s come around to the fact that at this point I’m just not going to be a doctor anymore. I think it’s also harder for Asian parents to even understand professions outside of you know, the typical doctor, lawyer…like what do you do at a startup? What is a startup? You know, is a non-profit just volunteering? So wait, what is your real job? Are you volunteering? And so I think for her, even if I explain to her like the other jobs that I had after college, she never really understood. She was like, okay, well, I don’t quite understand what you’re doing but maybe this is just a phase and you’re going to come back afterwards, but now that I’ve started my own company, she’s, you know, she’s really proud of that but also worried now at the same time that there’s no stable income. It’s risky and anything can happen, you know, at the end of the day, I think like most parents though, she just wants me to be happy and as long as she sees me happy with my life then that’s good for her.

Yeah, it’s so funny ‘cos I feel like I definitely have the same experiences with my parents. I think especially since I’ve jumped around in the corporate world doing accounting and doing marketing and doing analytics and now that I’m temping at a nonprofit and I’m thinking like all I really want to explore nonprofit. I think, I think they’re cool, okay, but we have many questions so…

Yeah.

Yeah, I totally understand that feeling. Yeah, and I think what’s also really super cool about you is that you not only travel but you really truly lived around the world. You’ve lived in Brazil, you lived in Vietnam, South Africa and China and you’ve also worked at nonprofits. So just Teach for American Girls Who Code…so now you’ve co-founded a fashion company called East Meets Dress where you make wedding cheap house and cheongsams for the modern generation, so like what motivated you to just like going to fashion?

Yeah, there’s a method to my madness. I’ve always been a very curious person and I’ve always really enjoyed learning new things, gaining new experiences and I think, you know, everyone should travel and live abroad at some point in their lives because it just opens up your eyes. Just so many things and just makes you a more well-rounded and knowledgeable person. So when I join TFA and Girls Who Code, I really wanted to make an impact on the world and it was a very rewarding experience for me because I felt very close to the mission. Afterwards, I wanted to be more involved in tech given that I was living in the Bay Area. There’s just so much tech around me and also wanted to learn more about what it took to build a startup and a company from scratch. So, I joined a very early-stage startup actually and I learned so much through that experience just about being scrappy and resourceful, building a product that your customers love and I wanted to tie, you know, all of these experiences together. So, wanting to make an impact and do something that was passion driven, but also wanting to build something from scratch and start my own thing, all of these experiences combine and led me to starting East Meets Dress with my best friend. So, we’ve always wanted to tie something back to our cultural heritage in some way and you know building a company that not only I can call my own but also helps me make an impact on Asian American culture and also help other women and Asian Americans like myself was like the best of both worlds for me. It’s been a very fun and exciting journey. Also, you know starting a company is very tiring. It’s kind of like a whirlwind of emotions, you know ups and downs. But yeah, it I’m so glad to have done this, to be on this part of my path at this time in my life.

Yeah, it’s so cool. This is such a weird complete random sidetrack but I was talking to one of my co-workers yesterday…where we were talking about photoshoots. And ‘cos she had gone back to China a number of times and done kind of professional photo shoot where they stage everything, you got to wear pretty dresses and all that and she really convinced me…she was like you should probably do a photoshoot for your 30th birthday just ‘cos like, cos you know a new decade of your life, a new chapter, like you never really get the opportunity to do that unless it’s like graduation or school portraits or weddings, right? And there’s like no in-between unless you like making your own initiative. So, I was actually thinking about what one of the ideas is like just a regular photo shoot like nothing crazy, fancy or anything. But the other idea I had was to kind of dress up in traditional cheongsams like even though I’m not getting married.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. Do it! I will love…we just launched a new collection actually, but yes, let’s let’s make this happen. I will love…

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, I would love to have you wear a cheongsam for your 30th and do your photoshoot.

Oh, that’s so exciting, oh my gosh. Thank you. Yeah, that’s what I was leading towards. I was like, I need to get something from your company ‘cos like I love…I love the mission that you guys have where it’s like cheongsams and cheap house but just you know different-ish.

Yeah, definitely. Oh my gosh, that’s so awesome!

Oh, that’s exciting. Oh my gosh, okay, we’ll definitely follow up after this.

So, are you planning crazy travel plans as well for your 30th?

Honestly, not really. I kind of want to just keep it chill. Keep a little bit local. Yeah, not really. I have my eyes set on bigger traveling plans next year and I travelled a bunch last year and spent quite a bit of money of that so I kinda want this year just be quieter, you know, save up a little bit for my little nest and then go out to the world again.

Yeah.

Well, I know we’re kind of winding things up for this episode. So, the last question I really had was do you have any piece of advice for those who are looking to live an unconventional life? Either professionally or personally?

Yeah, definitely. You know, I would say that the path to success isn’t straightforward. It almost never is. My own path included a bunch of twists and turns, so don’t be afraid to create your own path. And if you’re not out there building your own dream that you’re just busy building someone else’s and, you know, I really think that If you have a dream or a vision just do it and go out there. There might not be a blueprint for you to follow but you will just have to create your own and that’s kind of been a lot of what I’ve done in my own life too, is just putting one and two together and see where one opportunity takes me and going with another opportunity that presents itself and you really, you know, for those out there who are thinking about starting your own company…are doing your own thing, you really don’t need to have all the answers before you start. I think there’s this misconception that you need to have a lot of money to start your own thing. You need to have everything figured out, the perfect solution, the perfect product, but really you build as you go so I would say, you know, focus on figuring out if there is a need first and then work to fill it and everything can be learned. It matters more so that you’re persistent and willing to work hard and not afraid to take risks and fail than it is to be you know like an expert in that industry, I think. Both my co-founder and I, we were by no means experts in the wedding industry or the cheongsam industry. I think, you know, we had a passion, a vision. We had our own struggles and experiences going through finding a modern cheongsam and really just took it from there one step at a time and bootstrap our own company ourselves. Didn’t need a lot. We took $40 over a weekend, built the website on Shopify, and ran a Facebook ad on a basic landing page and that’s how we really got started. So yeah, definitely create your own path, and don’t be afraid to take a risk.

Fantastic advice. Thank you so much again for taking the time to chat with me.

Thank you so much for having me. This is such a great conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Hope you enjoyed listening to my conversation with Vivian.

Music was produced by Paulina Vo. You can follow her on Instagram @vobot spelled v o b o t or on Soundcloud at Paulina Vo.

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