7. Chatting with Cassandra Lam & Karen Mok, Cofounders of The Cosmos — Part 2

Hey there! You’re listening to Chatting with Asians. This is part two of my conversation with Cassandra Lam and Karen Mok, cofounders of The Cosmos. In this episode, we talk more about their crowdfunding project for The Cosmos Summit! They’re looking to raise $75k this month to create a historical gathering of 500 Asian women creators, coming to NYC in late summer 2019. They talk about their vision for the event and why we need this to happen! So here’s part two of my chat with Cassandra and Karen.

Angie:
It’s — it’s really awesome that you guys are — are — you’re taking the ego out of it, right? You — you are really thinking about what kind of environment would best serve the women but not just to facilitate like like, “Here’s a gathering,” but like like — going into my third question, you know, one of the other pillars you guys have within your mission is kind of providing a space for creation or collaboration. So you guys are really trying to not just gather women together but really empower and help them realize their potential as creators.

Karen:
Can I — can I give you a story?

Angie:
Yeah of course!

Karen:
So at our retreat in New York, Bianca our creative director facilitated a zine-making workshop about parents and parents are like really a thorny — yeah, that is a topic for Asian women. And it’s hard to talk about that, especially if, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of the privilege that some of us had to go to therapy, to go to training, to gain vocabulary. We don’t assume everyone has that. And we definitely know that somatic language and like creating with our hands is a big part of how we express ourselves. And so that workshop was like everyone brought magazines from the drug store and we’re like cutting things out and like pasting them on paper and then there was like — there’s a lot of like silent reflection time because we honor the introvert and we honor the introspection. I mean we got everyone — and everyone to form pairs and they started sharing with each other like their zines. And their zines became this like platform to talk about their relationship with their parents. And I don’t think we would have gone to the depth and vulnerability without first creating together. And then at the end everyone laid out their zines on the floor. And it was like this beautiful collage. I think it reminded — you know like when you’re a kid and you’re just like cutting things out. And it was fine. And it was like really — you could see the differences. Even though the magazines are all kind of like, you know, the standard magazines.

Angie:
Sure.

Karen:
And it was so beautiful because I think everyone was like taking photos and just like looking at like, “Wow we made that.” And that is an expression of our relationship with our parents that we can visually see. So we’re always thinking about — and I really credit to Bianca and the members of our team. Another example would be Caroline who leads our book club. Our book club has been very successful because we’ve learned and observed that most — a lot of us read growing up because we didn’t know how to express how we felt from like our parents generation not really being the most like, “Here’s how you talk about your emotions.” And that — I don’t even think most people get that today. Right? And so that book becomes a reference point for people to talk about their own stories. So we’re always like, “OK how do we think — how do we think about all the different parts of the Asian woman’s life as different starting points for her story.”

Angie:
Yeah. For you, Cassandra, do you have like kind of moments of of a Cosmos event where, you know, these kinds of creations that you’re seeing from from the community of women gathering together, was there any that have really impacted you or resonated with you?

Cassandra:
I am always overwhelmed by, you know, the power of community. And I think one really special one for me was honestly when — when Karen and I, you know, when we first started, we were really unsure if anybody would care about this. And I think going back to something we talked about, you know, earlier, imposter syndrome is — is very real. And so I think the most impactful thing for me is not even necessarily like a certain tangible accomplishment but it’s a feeling that I have now been lucky to feel so often that I truly cannot imagine my life without it. And it’s the little things like being seen at a book club gathering, having somebody to talk to, you know, like when when we might not be getting along with our parents and need some help overcoming a communication block, being able to go like talk about how to find a therapist with other women or even, you know, doing something new like like making a zine. Like all of these little things that or have now been made possible by The Cosmos have created a feeling that I still struggle to truly articulate but it’s completely changed my life and it’s completely changed my outlook not only on like what’s possible for me on a personal level but what’s now possible for all of us because we are connected now, you know, by these different shared experiences and shared kind of struggles and in our journey as we’re working to overcome and explore and unpack. So for me, it’s it’s just trusting, you know, that I am — I have multiple touch points in my life now where I can get more of this feeling, where I can be much more bold and be more vulnerable as well as more confident in my own life because I’m seeing other women practice that every day that they show up for themselves and for each other in our community. So it truly makes me emotional and, you know, thinking about this Slack group now, I just am like a fly on the wall just watching women amplify each other and talk about their work and their portfolios and like wins as well as like challenges that they’ve been facing. And I know it doesn’t sound necessarily, you know, meaningful because it’s like, “Oh they’re just sharing in a community.” But it truly is for a community that is still learning how to put words to their experiences. So that for me is the most resonant of all.

Karen:
Yeah today we were just watching like the women introduce themselves in our introductions channel. And then these women like started shouting out themselves, and Cassandra and I were texting. We’re like, “That is so incredible!” Like the energy is amazing because it’s still so rare to see an Asian woman and put her — say like, “Hey like I’m celebrating me and my work,” and that’s changing. It’s already changing. And so the war — the other women in the community are seeing that, like they see that, “Oh I can also do that!” without feeling guilty about feeling like, “I’m taking up too much space.” And that has been like — it’s not anything we do anymore. Like we’re not even facilitating anymore. It’s just happening and that’s like the next level is when like Cassandra and I can just like despair or be flies on the wall. And so that like — when you start to see the community interacting in a way that has nothing to do with us, which is our goal, it’s it’s been surreal. And like mindblowing.

Angie:
I think that’s such a beautiful thing too. To kind of reflect on what it means to create, right? Because it sounds like for you guys, that definition — it it doesn’t have to be a tangible thing. It can be creating like an emotion or a community. Right? Facilitating that. Or it could be creating a bond. It could be creating things that are artistic, things that aren’t artistic, maybe more entrepreneurial. I love that you guys are really trying to help foster that kind of motivation within everyone. Like you said, like, I think a lot of Asian women haven’t felt that kind of support they’ve found, whether it’s within their family or small group of friends, whatever it is, to really go out and be like, “Hey look at what I’ve done. I’m so proud of this. Like let me show you.” Right? Like how often do you get to hear that?

Karen:
Yeah it sounded weird. Like that sounds new!

Angie:
What is happening within this group?

Karen:
Wow! But that’s awesome, yeah.

Angie:
Yeah. I mean even for me I do get feedback from people who are telling me that the podcast is resonating with them, you know, more — Yeah it does feel good but I think I think — that’s also something I’m still trying to learn is to celebrate my creation. Through all the good and bad things that I’ve experienced since launching the podcast or even producing the podcast. This is something that’s that’s purely a passion project of mine. Like I — when I started this it was purely just to just see what it’s like and see what the reception would be kind of and see if I can connect with other people and it’s been such a beautiful kind of evolution. So I’m sure you guys are going through that except like you guys have started this for like over a year now. Right? Has it been over a year?

Karen:
Yeah it’s almost a year.

Cassandra:
Yeah. March —

Karen:
March 8th.

Cassandra:
Yeah.

Karen:
International Women’s Day.

Angie:
Oh, oh!

Cassandra:
That’s our one year anniversary.

Karen:
Yeah.

Angie:
Oh my gosh. That’s that’s —

Cassandra:
It’s literally a month away, guys. It’s February 8th.

Angie:
I mean did you guys specifically choose —

Karen:
Yeah

Angie:
— that because of that?

Karen:
Yeah.

Angie:
That’s so beautiful.

Karen:
I never celebrated International Women’s Day from an Asian women perspective. And so when we did it, we were also like — and this is kind of the timing, right? The women’s movement, #MeToo movement, a lot of cultural shifts have happened in America such that we feel there’s a place for the women part of our identity. But you asked before, you know, where were we before we started The Cosmos and I think we were trying to figure out where we fit in that larger American narrative. And we didn’t see a type of conversation that we could plug into that also was a space to talk about how the Asian part of ourselves influences our views as women. And that’s been really enriching. And you know Asians get criticized for being pacifist, for being inactive, and I think it’s actually we haven’t found a space where we can be active in a way that’s authentic to us because it doesn’t look like necessarily for all of us marching but doesn’t mean we don’t care.

Angie:
Right.

Karen:
And right now we’ve been living that like bifurcated narrative. And so we are starting to see like this new way that Asian women are supporting each other and showing up for each other and going to each other’s events and like clapping back on, you know, against haters on Instagram and just being there for each other and discovering what that looks like means, like, I think any Asian woman can start to see like, “I can be active on these issues in this way that’s real to me. And so that’s been also really fulfilling to see.

Angie:
Yeah that’s amazing.

Cassandra:
And I think also like having community is what makes it possible to begin really like shirking our sometimes innate perfectionists like meet — like our fear of saying something because we might not have the perfect answer or we might not know all the pieces. And I think this is where going back to like how we really insist on living the question and living our values. It’s not about having the right answer. It’s about being willing to confront, you know, the things that are not working for us in our community and it really starts with I think developing the capacity to do that in your individual life. And oftentimes, you know, that work is really challenging because it’s forcing you to face a lot of parts of your identity that are confusing or perhaps difficult or scary. And so if you can be surrounded by other women who are committed to doing that, it makes it easier for you. And you also have examples to look to when you feel stuck or cornered or, you know, unable to go on. So I really think that, you know, it’s going to look different for everybody what being quote unquote active or engaged or part of a larger movement, you know, we all had different interests to pursue but the most important thing is I think that we are creating a space for where women can feel like they can start and once they’ve started, I think that it’s it’s really hard to stop especially if you especially if you find that one thing that really fires you up and gets you going and you start to see the results of you starting that journey and when you look around and realize, “Oh we’re all in this together,” you know, it’s a really powerful and magnetic kind of feeling into, you know, seeing the seeds of that being planted all throughout last year in Asian America in general. I’m really excited that, you know, The Cosmos has been doing this work and learning and growing and experimenting so that we can best serve like our communities’ needs as we continue to ask questions that I think deserve to be answered.

Angie:
What I really love with your guys’ like hosting the events, producing events. The retreats sound like they have been an amazing kind of journey for everybody like both as, you know, the creators and people who attend. You guys have now held three retreats? Seattle, New York, and Joshua Tree.

Karen:
Yes.

Angie:
Seems to me that you guys focus a lot on well-being, all aspects of well-being, whether that’s emotional or physical or mental. But now you guys are kind of like trying out a new thing called The Cosmos Summit. Right?

Karen:
Yay!

Angie:
And you guys are going to be crowdfunding it. By the time that this podcast or this episode releases, your crowdfunding page will be live. Maybe? Is that a whole different story?

Karen:
Maybe, yeah. It will be there. We don’t know what it’ll look like.

Angie:
Well you guys are gonna be crowdfunding for the one day Cosmos Summit. What’s interesting to me, I’m kind of curious about what your viewpoints are on this: what is it about having a summit that you guys felt the need to produce that a retreat can’t like address?

Karen:
Our mission from the beginning is to reach every Asian woman and we want, by reach, for her to know she’s not alone and that her community is there. She doesn’t necessarily have to be the most active, you know, talking every day in the community. Just knowing that’s there for her. And we realize that our retreats are limited to 30 women at a time and we want to be able to reach more women because of the self-awareness that we have that there’s so many more narratives and it’s really challenging to continue to live in a world where yours isn’t seen or heard.

Angie:
Right.

Karen:
And so we thought about, “OK what is a medium by which we can take a lot of the programming that we’ve developed for the retreat and share that with more women at a time?” And the summit became the manifestation of that and in a way it’s a bit circular because when Cassandra and I first met, that was actually our first idea.

Cassandra:
Just a little ambitious, you know?

Karen:
And like that just seemed really hard when no one knew who we were. We didn’t have a name and it was it was a little bit like, “Okay, small steps,” and we’ve taken the steps we’ve called like last year our R&D year where we’re just learning and now we feel that we have at least a framework by which we want to explore this at a much bigger scale. We also believe very strongly that Asian women deserve a one day experience that is completely about them and is celebratory and positive and also like unconferencey. So no panels and like you — hold us accountable to that please. But really this — like a reimagining what a summit experience can even be like just as we’ve done for all of our experiences. So that’s been really exciting to take on. It’s terrifying. I mean we don’t know if five hundred are going to show up. We have no idea. We have — the size and scale of the operation is a lot bigger than we’ve taken on before. And yet that feels like what we need to keep doing. Pushing the envelope of what’s possible and continuing to imagine and that’s the internal theme for our community. You’re hearing it here first for the Summit is imagination and our creative director won’t let us call it imagination because it’s a little bit cheesy which I agree with. But that’s me. We want to make that summit about each woman, when she leaves that day, that she is able to visualize and see a world where she’s flourishing and thriving and she’s able to have 499 other women that she can reach out to so she doesn’t feel alone in that. Cassandra do you want to add more?

Cassandra:
Yeah I’m going to take this one step further. It’s really important that we ask not only for what we think we deserve but more as a community. I think that too often, particularly this inflicts women, but we’re afraid, you know, to put it out there. Whatever price tag, whatever, you know, prominence that we we feel we deserve, we always stifle and doubt ourselves. And so to me this crowdfund, the fact that we’re asking for $75,000, which is by and far the largest that I have seen so far out of any of my friends’ campaigns like on Kickstarter or iFundwomen, which is the platform we’re gonna be using. Yeah it’s really freaking scary. When Karen and I backed into that number from doing the budget, we were really having serious conversations about like, “Should we lower it to $50k because that feels really way more feasible and approachable and palatable?” But the more that we, you know, marinated on that, I was like, “No! Hell no.” We deserve to ask for $75k because by doing so we’re signaling to the world, “Hey, you know, we did — we matter. We deserve to be on a stage that’s beautiful and grand. Not just a little like wooden soapbox but truly a stage. And, you know, some lights.” Sorry. That’s like a bad joke because we’re really talking to A.V. folks.

Karen:
But that’s like seriously.

Angie:
No but really, you guys, we need to see you guys.

Cassandra:
I do think the bold ask is important because it’s not even — I mean it is about the money but it’s like what message are we sending out to our community, both Asians and non-Asians, our allies that, of course, are really important in our success here. But what message can we send by being so bold and unapologetic about our ask. And so it’s not only — it’s like the money is bold but also like the summit, like, we are asserting that we’re going to create a historic gathering for 500 Asian women creators from around the world to come together for this one day experience to collectively imagine what it looks like for us to flourish and thrive. And doing that through art, through workshops, through lightning talks, and dialogue and food and you know, like, all of these things matter. And I think we — to me, this is us putting a huge frickin footprint in the American like fabric of society saying, “We are here. We are not leaving. We have a lot to say. Listen up.” And I think that’s that’s something that you really need numbers for. And so for us, you know, the numbers are the $75k, the 500 women, and the thousands of other people that are gonna be impacted, you know, by virtue of the opportunities that this will lead to. So we’re really optimistic. You know, it’s it’s frightening of course. I’m really terrified but at the same time I’ve been really intentional about even when Karen and I talk about the crowdfund, it’s not like, “If we’re gonna make it.” I literally say, “When we make $75k,” and, you know, I’m trying to manifest this but also we’ve been working really hard and we we feel that this is something that culturally, you know, thanks to Crazy Rich Asians and Asian August as well as Sandra Oh, you know, winning the award that she won this year, like there’s a lot going on culturally that’s laying a really solid foundation that I think is giving an opening for Asian women creators to really use their voice. I don’t like to say it like, “Get a voice.” We’ve had a voice. But finally I think there’s a there’s an arena where we can be heard and we’re deciding to build the stage versus waiting for someone else to build the stage for us.

Angie:
Yeah, yeah that’s super important to emphasize like to to really build on the voice we already have. Right? And to learn how to amplify that within ourselves, within our community, within everyone. So I know it’s like still super early in the planning stages and I’m sure you guys are still trying to figure out the programming and everything. So you’re not going to have a panel. Are you’re gonna have speakers?

Karen:
Yes and I’ll give you some ideas that we have —

Angie:
Oh sure.

Karen:
— for what- and this is all imaginative and we talk about it in our crowdfund video. Like yes, we would love to see like Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, who was a very strong voice in the #MeToo movement, you know, and a conversation with Constance Wu who has been also a very strong voice in the Hollywood and media representation. And to put like two types of narratives together, right? Political and Hollywood. And to have them in dialogue with each other in a way that is really breaking that third wall between the stage and the audience because there’s something that happens when you like sit in a stage and you face in like a panel, it’s just like, “I’m not part of that.” And so we’ve been thinking a lot, “Ok, how do we structure the actual like dialogue between, you know, two individuals or multiple such that, you know, it’s a conversation with the whole crowd. And so it’s not that like the panel itself, like, there are parts of panels are valuable, it’s the voices, it’s multiple perspectives. Right? But there are other ways we can structure it so that people that are in the audience are actually part of the conversation. Another concept that we’re really excited about is an art installation that is going to be curated by Asian women artists and creators in our community and our creative team and creating an immersive experience where, again, going back to what we’ve observed about women creating the way they’re expressing their identity versus necessarily just speaking and having a specific part of the summit be about — maybe it doesn’t work for you to speak up and ask a question in a dialogue but it makes sense for you to make this zine or make this public art that is going to express a part of your identity. Food, of course, is like very much on top of our mind and we’ve been experimenting a lot with what this looks like this weekend. The weekend of February 9th, we are launching The Cosmos New Year Market which Cassandra can speak more about and it’s an opportunity to create this micro economy for Asian women. Because a lot of it is, “How do we buy Asian. How do we end the stereotypes that like things made in Asia are cheap and value — like valueless, right?” Because that keeps our economic power low, that keeps pride in our culture low, and we want to create more of this like, “OK when we buy Asian, we are supporting the women in our community who often have been doing a lot of the mental and emotional and physical labor in history and yet we’re not recognized and largely erased from history. So how do we create space where they are front and center like the night market?” Like that’s been a concept that’s been reinvented by this new generation of Asian-Americans and we want to pull from that and create like a market experience that helps us celebrate each other as well. Cassandra?

Cassandra:
Yeah I want to just take a second and really like honor the black feminists that have really inspired me and Karen to have the language to articulate this. So when I first heard of buy black, bank black, support black, that was when I realized like, “Oh like they’re being so intentional about where their money goes because they know that if they are reinvesting it in their community, that’s going to like pay dividends and that’s going to support the next generation.” And so when we were thinking about like Asian women creators, right, like who are struggling to value themselves, who live in a world where a lot of people say it’s hard to discover Asian stuff that’s cool, that’s good, we were like, “OK well how can we utilize this platform and do what we love to do which is bringing people together to not only help our Asian creators make money, you know, and really have what they need to continue creating the art and the work that they’re doing at the same time while also creating a dialogue within the community?” So the market is going to be open to all identities, so not just Asian folks. And we’re excited for people of all different backgrounds to come and see the incredible talent and the rich diversity of experiences there are — there are in our diaspora. So this this market, it’s happening tomorrow. I’m really excited for that to see like these connections and the connective tissue within our community and even outside of our community. Like how do we relate to creators of other backgrounds, you know, and how can we — how can we develop a conversation around what it really means to say like, “I support you.” Right? And I think something Karen and I are really adamant about is like you’ve got to put money into your community if you want to see your community grow. And that’s so I know it’s a taboo topic for a lot of Asians but that’s something that we’re really trying to create more comfort in more — in more I think awareness around through this market.

Karen:
And another fun element of the summit. Again a lot of our ideas are actually like versions of our retreat programming that we’re trying to do at a larger scale. So every retreat, we’ve done something called the creator studio and it’s where — it comes right after a workshop that we do on representation and it’s like a Shark Tank style where we like put up a bunch of Asian brands and we each — every person has like a sticky note and it’s like they know about it or they don’t. And we really interrogate like what are the brands that are out there for us and which ones resonate and which ones don’t. And then we identify where the gaps still are in the representation that’s available to us. And then we go and make it. And that’s something which we’ve done. At our first retreat, we did a photo shoot which was super fun and we like reinvented the like Vanity Fair like Hollywood montage. And then we did a video shoot on the L.A. retreat that was done with a Asian women-owned production company called Rebel Motion. Super fun. And then at the summit, we want to do another creative studio where when we leave like it’s it’s really important for us that people don’t just leave the summit was just like a goody bag. We want them to leave with something they can go on and, you know, put on their walls or like keep like with them and have a tangible reference point. And so, you know, what that is going to look like at the summit level, we’re super curious to explore. We want to work with Asian creators. You know, we’re not going to wait for someone who doesn’t see our community to create us that space. We’re going to make our own representation the way we want to. And then we we very much think about the beginning and end and we think about what do we want that Asian woman to feel when she leaves. And my personal litmus test for like, “Did I succeed in this networking event?” is from before it was like, “Did I make one connection that’s going to last?” And a lot of the women have asked at the end of the retreat like, “How does this go on? I don’t want to lose the intimacy of these friendships that I’ve made in this three day weekend.” And so at 500 women, it’s not — it’s gonna look different, right? But if I can — if we can create something where every woman leaves that summit with at least one other friend or connection that lasts beyond the summit, that is a success.

Angie:
Yeah.

Karen:
And we want to create a world where those connections don’t just feel like a one day experience but actually like something that continues with you. And so a lot of that is done when you think about like one of those moments where you felt you really bonded with people. It was like when you like made something together, right? Or you played a game or like you like had this crazy experience. And so that’s the type of like — I was like pulling from study abroad experiences or like, you know, like really meaningful things like, “How do we put that into like a summit?” So that’s some of the thinking we’re we’re doing to make it both meaningful but also not just like one blip in time but rather just a start or continuation of a longer journey.

Angie:
Yeah this is amazing. I, unfortunately, I think we’re starting to run out of time. So I just wanted to reiterate some of the main points about the summit. For those who are interested in learning more about it. So it sounds like the goal is to raise $75k within a month. The summit will invite ideally 500 women creators to New York City, late summer of this year. Is that right?

Karen:
Yes.

Angie:
OK. Is there a link like an easy URL that people can visit if they want to learn more?

Cassandra:
Yeah, we can actually provide it to you in the show notes but it’s going to be on iFundWomen and our campaign should be on the home page by the time that this podcast drops.

Karen:
It’ll be called The Cosmo Summit.

Angie:
The Cosmo Summit. Cool! Got a few few more minutes so maybe a couple more questions. Hopefully they’re not too open ended but I don’t know. My my questions haven’t really been —

Karen:
We love your questions.

Angie:
Thank you, thank you. So a couple more questions. First one is what has been the proudest moment since launching The Cosmos and what do you hope to achieve in the next five years within The Cosmos? And as I was saying as I know that’s very open ended so I’m so sorry.

Karen:
I don’t know if there’s one. I think it comes down to seeing the team grow. Seeing Cassandra grow.

Cassandra:
Please stop, I’m gonna cry!

Karen:
Seeing the women in our community grow. Like I mean it’s it’s crazy like when we think back to some of the women who we started with. And then even the ones we’ve met, you know, a few months even weeks ago, and seeing that transformation and especially that — I think the ones that are most meaningful to me are again are the ones where I’m not doing anything. And it’s our vision was always like about just creating a space where this starts to happen organically because that is when you know the culture change is happening. Not forcing anything, right? And going back to our whole principle of this not being about our ego, about being — about being, you know, the Cassandra and Karen show, it’s about like neutral space. A room that you walk into that feels like home, that feels safe and authentic, and really have an organic belief in that support. And so when I’m starting to see that, especially in the online community where it’s even harder, right? Like you don’t know these people. Like this morning, I had a whole conversation with someone I’ve never met about sneakers. And we talked for like 30 minutes and it was amazing. I was like, “I’ve never met you. I don’t know when I’ll meet you but I think we’re friends.” And so that’s that’s been moments where I feel like, “OK this work will live beyond me and Cassandra.” And that is beautiful.

Cassandra:
I think my proudest moment is probably the series of like really difficult and honest conversations that Karen and I have had together. You know as both as friends we — like I think what’s really unique is that we became friends and co-founders at the exact same time, which I think could cause a lot of problems if we weren’t, you know, so open and direct with each other and that’s always been a value that I appreciate in our relationship. And what’s hard about this work is your identity is inextricably linked to what you’re putting out there. And so the the challenge has been like, “How can we grow into the people that we need to be, not just to serve this community and to lead but to, you know, really show the community that like what like the impact of this work? Right? And I think you have this moment where like, “Am I going to stay the same or am I going to grow into like the opportunity here?” And so through all of the the hard conversations and the long nights, like I’ve just been able to really feel so proud of how Karen and I have continued to hold space for each other. And I like — something that I really value is whenever I’m part of a community and I want to get an understanding of what the community is going to be like, I always look at the leadership. Who is — who is running the show? Because their values are going to be what bleeds throughout and really emanates in that community. And so, you know, the humility that Karen and I want to infuse in each other is really something that’s so special. I mean it definitely make us — makes us work really hard but I think at the end product is incredible. And to know that — to know that we’re together in this trying to be as ego-less as possible, is eager to learn and as open to feedback and, you know, honestly any ideas that our community has. We’re totally open to it. I think that really matters because we’ve seen a lot of communities where people at the top try to push something down and that doesn’t work very well. So the whole idea of this being grassroots and being co-create and collaborative as well as like honest has truly changed my life.

Angie:
So beautiful you guys. Well I think we might be out of time now but thank you so much for being vulnerable, being honest, sharing your thoughts and dreams and everything. I’m really proud of The Cosmos, what it’s gone through. I mean it’s only been a year in operation really. I’m so excited for the future. So thank you again for being on the show.

Karen:
In five years, I hope that we are talking to you and you are so famous that you can barely us squeeze in.

Angie:
No!

Karen:
We are like, “We were on your show in the very beginning!”

Angie:
No!

Karen:
That to me would be awesome! Whatever like your dream is in five years, we hope we get to be a part of it and that is something we feel a lot of Asian women in our community is — just seeing like your growth and hopefully you know that you’re feeling supported. I hope that’s still there in five years.

Angie:
Yeah. Same for you guys. I feel like we just have to keep this going.

Karen:
Yeah.

Cassandra:
We’re just getting started guys! It’s going to be a great five years.

Angie:
Very true, very true. Yeah, no thank you again.

Karen:
Thank you for the work you do! Really it matters.

Angie:
Oh no thank you guys. I know we can continue on this thing.

Karen:
Tune in next time where we thank each other for an hour!

Cassandra:
That’s the most Asian thing we can possibly do.

Angie:
I know! I’m gonna press the stop button.

Thanks for listening to part 2! A friendly reminder: if the mission of The Cosmos resonates with you, check out their website at jointhecosmos.com. If you’d like to donate to The Cosmos Summit, you can check out the show notes for the link or go to ifundwomen.com and search for “The Cosmos Summit”. Hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did! New episodes drop every other Monday, so be on the lookout on March 4 for the next one. See ya!

More details here: https://ifundwomen.com/projects/cosmos-summit

Website: https://www.jointhecosmos.com/

Instagram: @jointhecosmos

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jointhecosmos/

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