9. Chatting with Dinh Thai, Writer and Director — Part 2
Welcome to Chatting with Asians! This is part 2 of my conversation with writer and director, Dinh Thai. We talk about if Hollywood is ready for more movies about Asian American topics and his advice to those looking to get into filmmaking. So here’s part 2 of our conversation!
Angie: It’s so popular right now to talk about Asian representation. You know, obviously because of Crazy rich Asians and the significance of it. There — a lot of people I feel like are very hopeful that the momentum continues. And I — you know, I also want the momentum continue but at the same time, as a passive moviegoer, I don’t really know that much about the film industry. So you know, in your own opinion, do you think there’s there are multiple things that really need to significantly change in order to bring more diverse stories like, you know, do smaller studios need more funding, do streaming platforms like Netflix or Hulu hurt or help the process in getting greenlit? Like what what are your thoughts about that?
Dinh: Firstly I agree with you that I personally don’t know as much as I should about the film industry. I feel like it’s a giant maze with a lot of gatekeepers and a lot of people — decision makers who may not be so friendly to outsiders. So that in itself is is a giant obstacle. When it comes to buying power, I I strongly believe that Asians as a whole, we are not a whole. Society and the media groups all Asian people as one. That’s unfair because culturally and emotionally and and we’re all different, you know? There there are so many different groups of Asian people. So to get a to get real buying power from our Asian community, that’s tough. It’s tough to get us all together and say, “Hey we’re gonna go and support art together collectively and let our money do the talking.” That’s just not how it works for our community. And I’m not so sure what a good solution is to try to get more money into Asian-American art, cinema, music, anything of that so that executives look at it and see the numbers and go, “Yeah, this is a good reason to finance and distribute and create and get this stuff out there for people to spend more money.” I’m not sure what what that looks like and how that’s going to be accomplished. I feel the momentum. I think it’s a great accomplishment for everyone involved with Crazy Rich Asians but I’m not quite sure that that momentum affects people outside of that train. That is the Crazy Rich Asian trade. So I think the A-list actors, producers, writers, and directors and filmmakers and storytellers involved with that all benefit from that. But I’m not so sure that outsiders such as myself are part of that momentum.
And I totally agree with that too. Just because, at least from my personal experience watching Crazy Rich Asians, you know, I’ve seen it multiple times mostly because, you know groups, of friends want to go. You know I went with my parents, I went with friends who are you know from like Filipino backgrounds or Thai backgrounds, Vietnamese, so more Southeast Asian. I’ve been watching it with other people who are Chinese American like me. And I think you know generally the reaction was kind of similar where we leave the movie theater after watching it and we go, “Yeah you know it was a fun movie but like I don’t — it doesn’t resonate with me. I’m a normal income or low income, you know, generally mentally stable Asian. So where are the stories about that?” You know there’s there’s a quote from Constance Wu I really do love hearing is is that a lot of times people think of Asian culture as some mythical world instead of modern people right? We’re not all just talking about Taoism and kung fu. Some people are just trying to get over their breakup. And tying it back to your film, Monday, I felt like it was really refreshing exactly for that reason, righ? Because it’s about an Asian-American character dealing with a very realistic situation. Do you think Hollywood is ready for more modern stories about Asian-Americans or do you think it’s like a long road ahead of us?
So what I’ve been hearing from a lot of a lot of panels and a lot of open forum discussions, people want authentic stories. I don’t know what the word “authentic” actually means but that’s the word that’s being spread is that people want authentic stories. And so I’m not quite sure if a quote unquote normal story is authentic. I don’t know if the buyers of television and films and the people that are involved with the money aspect of that can look at Monday and go, “Yeah. That’s authentic. I’m not sure. Is it Asian enough, is it Oriental enough?” Probably not. Is it more mainstream? Maybe it is. I’m not so sure what the formula is to address that question. What I like to watch is are things that move me and that’s pretty much it. Whether it’s from it doesn’t matter what culture it’s from as long as it moves me. And it does and it triggers me in the right way when I’m sitting there watching it to experience something impactful. I love stories that are Caucasian, that are black, that are Hispanic, that are red, yellow, purple. It doesn’t matter to me as long as it’s it’s fun, it’s entertaining, and it and it triggers me the right way. So I can only hope that people who are making decisions with their with their budgets and and their finances that they look at art as a as a just from an art standpoint and how it makes people feel.
And I think that’s a really great approach. That’s that’s something I’m personally trying to achieve too. It’s like I want to seek out more not just necessarily indie films but really films that I typically wouldn’t have sought out at first, right? So films like like “BlacKkKlansman”, I really enjoyed. I really enjoyed “Sorry to Bother You”. Those those two films actually really stood out to me. If I think about all the movies I saw last year in 2018, you know, purely really it’s just from a different perspective. It’s a different take on storytelling. And —
Absolutely I love those I love stuff like that. So you know, now that I remember something that I wanted to add to your question about what Hollywood is ready for and how to and how to sort of Jedi mind trick that. What I’ve noticed is that press, PR, and marketing have a lot to do with the with society’s psychology and in determining what we think we want and what we think is cool and what I’ve noticed is that with the right amount of press and with the right amount of marketing, people will get involved and they will start watching things that they deem that the audience deems important to watch or just pleasurable to watch. And so — if it really doesn’t start, I don’t believe that myself as a creator can change what people want to watch. I think that what an institution can do is market it correctly and get enough press out there to sort of tell the audience possibly what I make is something of interest to them. So for instance, some streaming platforms don’t market as well as other streaming platforms or network television or cable premium television and you can see that just as a general broad stroke. You can see what’s popular. It’s stuff that’s been talked about, stuff that’s marketed, stuff that has a ton of billboards around town or a large amount of press. Those are the things that people sort of tell themselves they have to watch right? Because the smaller films, there’s no press. The smaller stories, the smaller TV shows, there’s just minimal press on them and minimal marketing. And so it doesn’t get out to the mainstream enough to sort of support the art itself.
Yeah. Yeah I think you’re really right on the spot about that. I used to work in marketing so — and and I used to work on more of the analytic side so you know it would have to be studying about what people want, how to find the right demographic to send the right kind of messaging. And I think there there is something very powerful about marketing in order to help persuade people. right? Into into discovering something that’s new to them or something that you realize that, you know, they wanted to either watch or have in their lives.
It’s crazy. It’s a crazy thing to talk about. It’s like blasphemy to say that we as a society need to be told what’s good and what isn’t.
It’s weird. I think it’s so weird that there’s a huge industry around it that’s like it’s social and data science too and psychology. It’s surreal. That’s that’s also very surreal.
I’ve sort of made my way through this career as a commercial director and I’ve worked with ad agencies that have creative ideas that are based on numbers of course based on art as well. And what seems to be the common thread is if you, even even as a as a working commercial director, if if the art itself has someone popular in it ,it has a better chance to become successful. Popular meaning an athlete, a comedian, a star, that in itself gives the piece a chance to succeed. That art in my reel in my portfolio gives me a chance to succeed which is oddly crazy to think that a group of art creators and makers who are advertisers still rely on the pop culture to tell them what’s successful, what’s cool, what can be someone to hire. I’ve even had thoughts of changing my name to a — to a more westernised name because I think my name has deterred the evolution of my career. I still think about that at my age, I’m still thinking about that which is crazy.
No I think that’s honestly that’s a very real thing to consider. I think especially for minorities or because — so I have this kind of joke with my with my boyfriend because his last name is Allison. So I’ve always joked like, “Oh you know if we ever get married and if I took on your last name, I would love to like send out two different kinds of resumes, right? One with my actual last name. And then one with like my married last name just to see right? Just to see what that would be like.
Yeah. There was a study done. I’m sorry but I don’t remember all the details but there has been something that experiment has been done and it sort of tells the truth.
I should try it but you know whenever I get married, that’ll be my next highest priority.
Well I wouldn’t say that you have to get married to do the experiment. You could probably do the experiment. You don’t have to you don’t have to bring your boyfriend or your future fiancee.
Yeah that would be very committed to the to the test.
There was a job that I was up for that required the portfolio to show lifestyle footage as well as social media assets so that I have that on my reel. That’s what my reel is and I didn’t get the gig but I looked at the the other gentleman who was up for the gig and that person had the same type of material and portfolio that I have. But that person’s name was a Western name.
Yeah.
And so I’m just saying I’m just putting it out there. I’m not saying it’s truth, fact or anything but that’s just been my experience with my career. And if you look at the if you look at the name Dinh Thai before Ding Tai Fung was popular. You look at Dinh Thai and you’re like, “Can this guy direct black athletes, hip hop, spoken word, sports cars? Like Dinh Thai? Just pick any other western name.” Dinh Thai is probably not going to be the guy to direct this stuff right. You know, it’s just, I don’t know if it’s real. Maybe I’m just making it up right.
But I think enough people are at least thinking about that being like, “Is there is there at least some truth to it a little bit? Even if we can’t like 100% validate it right?” It seems like enough people go through that similar experience where it does make us a little bit skeptical and questioning. I think we’re right to do that. So.
Yeah you’re right. And I would I would just clarify. I’m just putting it out there. I’m not saying that it’s real.
No of course.
It’s all you know we all have random thoughts in our head and they all are either they’re either most of them are meaningless. Some of them are meaningful but but that’s that’s what is going on in my head and I and I look at it from a place where, “Great. That’s what is going on with me emotionally I can write about it. I can tell a story about it. I can do something with it.” Now let’s just say we’re going back to that topic of sitting behind a desk for 40 60 80 hours a week, I have no exhaust for those emotions right? So what happens to me as a person? You know you can you can see what can happen.
Yeah. Yeah. You know what I want to. I always like to bring in kind of like silly questions or whatever. One of the questions I had for you was if you had to pick three people in the film industry that inspire you, you know they don’t have to necessarily be Asian or Asian-American, who would they be and why?
Let’s see there are many storytellers, writers, directors, producers that are inspirational. I can’t say that I know for sure those are the people that changed my lives in an indirect way but what I can say is that there are a handful of films and creators that mean a lot to me. Kathryn Bigelow was is one of them. She directed Point Break and when I was young when I watched Point Break, it was so incredible of a movie and an experience I didn’t know who made it. I didn’t know who directed it and so later on in life I figured out that it was Kathryn Bigelow and obviously she makes incredible films. She just did Detroit and she’s done Hurt Locker and you know some incredible things. Jordan Peele is incredible is amazing and what a great writer and and director and I’m excited to see all the things that that Jordan makes. Going back many decades I would have to say Miyazaki who is the co-founder of Studio Ghibli. I recently watched Totoro again in New York and for I think it’s a ’88. What is that 30 years now? It’s a 30 year old animation and it has so much charm and magic in it and it’s like wow I’m watching I’m watching it as an adult thirty years after it was released I’m just like this is incredible. And obviously he is a writer and animator and director and all his films have that charm and and so I’m not saying those are my direct influences but those those three artists are they have a lot to say and they know what they’re doing and they’re essentially things people that I borrow from. Whether it’s a little moment in their films, a little word or line, or the tone of their films and how they address you know drama. But they’re important to me. I would say that Eddie Murphy and Jamie Foxx as comedians and actors completely changed the way I looked at people and how humor and drama can live together in a very fragile and powerful way. Eddie Murphy my favorite films of his are Beverly Hills Cop 1 and 2. They’re just really fun movies to watch and to see someone perform in such a funny and dramatic way it worked really well for me and obviously the same for Jamie Foxx. I grew up watching his standups and that guy is he got me just laughing uncontrollably and he really changed the way my friends and I spoke to each other because we’d have this weird shorthand of just reciting his punch lines into our conversation.
Yeah.
Yeah. It’s and so incredible stuff. And of course it’s a long list of like early Chris Nolan films, obviously. Goodfellas. Martin Scorsese. Most of Spielberg’s library. Michael Mann. They all have a really strong hold on what I love to watch. Have you — do you know who Chris McQuarrie is? He’s the — he just recently did Mission Impossible Fallout.
Oh no I don’t think I’ve heard of him but I really liked Fallout.
There is an incredible podcast that he’s on. It’s called I think it’s the Jeff Goldsmith Q&A podcast and he talks about how he’s writing and directing the film at the same time. And it’s an incredible journey of what one person and a group of obviously amazing supporters can do together collectively on a huge budget, huge scale and still be writing as they’re shooting.
Oh my God. Well I will have to listen to that episode.
Mind blowing. Mind blowing.
That’s amazing. That’s a fantastic list though. Kind of we’re kind of winding down a little bit. So usually what I like to ask is advice because ideally this podcast is geared either for young Asian or Asian Americans who are still trying to figure out what their next big life steps are or you know to other people who are looking to change up their careers or change their lives in one way or another. So do you have any advice for anyone who’s aspiring to become a filmmaker?
Wow. What’s my advice. How do I make this awesome? My advice. The one thing that I feel there is there’s a moment in my life where my business partner and I started a production company and but that’s that decision stands on the work that we put in years prior individually. So when we came together we were able to reach out to clients and present a new service to them. And that gave us an opportunity to create other content and that obviously we made money doing that. And we made connections and we and our friends came in to help us and it was that foundation the building of something that could support and sustain our lives that allowed me to write and create Monday with my filmmaking friends. And so I think what that story really means is that in trying to pursue anything in this world I realize that it’s not an easy light switch where you can just flip and be like, “I’m a filmmaker, this is happening right now.” It’s taken — I graduated from art center in 2002, I wrote and directed a very terrible short film when I was in college so bad that I didn’t finish it and it scared me to try to do that. And it took me 14 years, almost 15 years t write and direct a narrative again. but in that time I was learning, I was struggling, I was learning, I foreclosed on a home. I was lucky enough to have support of my business partner to get me to start again financially as well as career wise. And so everything has a connecting dot for me. And so as anyone who is a storyteller or anyone who started a career or anyone who wants to restart a career, it’s really about building the foundation, meeting the right people, caring about each other and appreciating each other. And then when the time comes that Voltron will form for you. And you’ll feel like it was overnight, you’ll feel like that light switch really flipped for you. But looking back, there were so many little dots and little steps that led up to that moment of change.
Yeah and I think that that kind of goes for a lot of a lot of things that we see as big accomplishments or big successes right? I mean this is a very random example. I was just thinking of Beyonce actually. I just had brunch and I was talking about how my friend and I went to Coachella last year.
Yeah.
You know what’s incredible about Beyonce though is that she has had a career forever. As far as I can — as far as I can remember like decades and a lot of her successes, you know, wasn’t so instant right? Her parents had to sacrifice a lot to bring her to dance classes or singing classes. She had to go through a lot of different competitions at a really young age and get rejected like many times. But it it only takes kind of like baby steps right? You have to kind of learn how to move forward, hone your craft whatever that may be. And then before you know it, maybe you actually win a competition that that gets the eye of an agent right or puts you on TV for the first time and it builds and builds up.
Yeah it’s definitely it’s definitely building something around yourself to sort of catapult what you want into your life. So one of the one of these quotes that I really love the gentleman’s name is Jim Rohn. It’s spelled Ron, R O H N. And so it’s like John but with an R and it has one of his famous quotes and I’m not sure if it’s going to be word for word but his quote is: You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And it’s so true. It’s so true. And I’m not saying that you should eventually you should just attach yourself to the people you want to become but you do become the people you surround yourself with. And for me when I was young, I surrounded myself with, I was lucky enough to be friends with various cultures. I was lucky enough to pursue filmmaking. I was lucky enough to also surround myself with troublemakers and all those things have eventually allowed me to be who I am today. And so that quote I carry with me it’s in my mind constantly. And I don’t I don’t use it as a motivation to become friends with people but what I use it as is a realization of what’s happening around me. And and if I don’t like what I’m feeling or doing or trying to accomplish then of course I can change myself but I can also easily change my surroundings.
Exactly. Yeah. And you know really the final question I have for you is what’s next for you? Are you working on a short film or are you working on a feature film or you know maybe something else?
It’s everything. What is within my own reach right now is that I’m writing. So I’ve been outlining a feature and I’m trying to turn Monday into a TV series. And so that deck, the Bible, the story arcs. There’s two scripts that have been written for it already. And I’m finishing up a short film with some friends and you know I’m trying to meet as many people as possible and looking for opportunities to help others. I’m still a commercial director. I’m still getting calls to just edit promos. You know it’s it’s a little bit of everything. As a last piece of advice now you I realized something that was helpful. There was a time when I was making content whether I was editing, shooting, or writing content that I didn’t love. Contrary to love would be hate. I was making things that I disliked so much. That it was an annoying time in my life. And I still would say that I still have those experiences and what I’ve learned from those experiences is that. I can learn on someone else’s time. They were paying me to work with them on an edit project and I would be looking at the footage and having a lot of critical analysis of the footage. But with little did I know that that was making me a better director. So I did that for I mean I’ve been doing that my whole career. But those moments in the edit room allowed me to be a better storyteller because I could possibly foresee what was happening when I was directing when I was writing. And so just because I was in a bad space doesn’t mean I wasn’t learning you know and partially to me making a terrible student film was because I didn’t go through any of those experiences. I didn’t know I watched a lot of things but that doesn’t mean it translates to doing great work but going through troubling times in my career helped me become a better whatever I am today.
A whatever you are today?
Whatever or whatever it is.
Well I think that was a really good note to end this episode on. Thank you so much for being on the show today Dinh.
Angie you’re awesome. I love your passion for for what you’re doing and I wish you all the best and I and I know that this is what you’re doing is the right thing. It’s going to and it’s going to be awesome.
Thank you.
I mean it it is awesome.
Is it not?! No I’m just kidding.
No it is. It’s awesome. It’s awesome to listen to your interviews. It’s awesome to hear from the people you’re interviewing. Everything’s so insightful and it’s just it’s a good time for us. I guess that’s what I’d like to say.
Yeah. No it is a good time. And you know we got to support each other right? Yeah. As creative so thank you again for being on the episode.
Thanks Angie. Bye everybody!
Website: https://www.dinhthai.com/
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