Matt Braly on Amphibia — Culture, and Alienation — the Metaphorical and Fantastical
“In my own experience, it took years to understand what I was feeling and what my own mother’s feelings were about being an immigrant. It takes a certain awareness and empathy to even be curious, and I think by the events of [Froggy Little Christmas] Anne was ready to listen.”
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Amphibia creator and executive producer Matt Braly shares with me some emotionally sincere and difficult aspects of his life, and its direct application in Amphibia’s core identity from experiencing America as a Thai-American, and as a child of an immigrant. With Season 3 being essentially a love letter to migrant families, I had the privilege and opportunity to interview him regarding culture and Amphibia’s extended metaphor for alienation, and by extension some details about the formulation of certain characters’ backgrounds.
One detail I personally enjoy about the show and season 3 is that Ms. Boonchuy pronounces “Boonchuy” differently from Anne’s pronunciation, which is anglicized. Marcy Wu also does not pronounce her last name with an upward accent, which would normally be the traditional pronunciation of Wu (吳) in Mandarin. To my surprise, this was concurrent with the source material —
“I think that is a good interpretation. Also, it’s possibly a demonstration of how distant they might feel from their background. They’ve gotten so used to pronouncing their names wrong that it has become pretty normal for them. However, you’ll notice Anne’s mom always pronounces “Boonchuy” correctly.”
Many migrant families and their children are pressured by either immigration offices or social settings to alter the spelling and/or pronunciation of their cultural names, and it is something I personally experience firsthand every day. Via extension of linguistic barriers, I asked another question regarding Marcy’s parents’ voices that we hear towards the end of Season 2, which do not have Taiwanese accents, and the deliberate casting of Mr. and Ms. Boonchuy’s voice actors with audible Thai accents.
“The Boonchuys having accents is to clarify that they are 1st generation immigrants. Marcy’s parents not having accents is to clarify that they are 2nd or 3rd generation [Taiwanese]— so yes, it is to demonstrate that the Boonchuys are less integrated into American culture than Marcy’s folks.”
Regarding the actual immigration processes surrounding the Boonchuys, Matt Braly also had some fun details to share with me —
“I think the Boonchuys immigrated looking for financial autonomy and opportunity. Mrs. Boonchuy was probably sent to the USA at some point for an education, and decided she liked it enough to drag her long-term boyfriend there when they got married.”
Over the course of season 3, I was delightfully surprised with how much Thai culture and the context of the Boonchuys’ immigration to America was ingrained holistically in the episode content, especially since Disney has a long history of orientalism and misrepresentation of all of Asia. I was concerned that there were factors opposing Matt’s vision — whether it was executive meddling or cultural competency barriers within his staff. I was ecstatic to hear this was not the case:
“There was never any push back on this front — the execs were always very supportive of what I wanted to do in terms of getting Thai culture on screen.”
“I think everyone did their best to do some research on the side and ask lots of questions. On the whole, they put their trust in me and I tried to keep things as accurate as possible. There were actually a few Thai-American folks on staff who were also there to double check our work.”
Surrounding the episode “Froggy Little Christmas” that premiered recently, there was a discussion between Ms. Boonchuy and Anne the latter verbally acknowledges the complexities of immigration and its social implications. Anne’s mother relays that her idea of “making it” in America was to have her restaurant recognized at the Los Angeles Christmas parade.
As charming and sincere as this moment was, I could not help but feel poignant because of my own personal experience from an immigrant family from Iran, and how demoralizing it can be to have your acceptance in American society be conditional — based on only what you can provide, on only how society can commodify you. Matt responded with a similar sentiment regarding his mother, On Braly, (who also voices Ms. Boonchuy!) in writing this scene.
“It did make me a little sad because I can only imagine how my mom must have felt, being in a completely different country so far away from her family. She is a very independent person but it must have taken a bit of grit…”
I delved further into the context of this scene — I was astonished at the implication that Anne had never acknowledged her mother’s struggle with alienation and xenophobia in America until experiencing Wartwood, mainly because I was forced to reckon with it at an extremely young age, which of course colored my perception of said scene.
“I think Anne was too self centered before the events of Amphibia to really consider how her parents were feeling. I think she also was not able to identify the xenophobia she might have faced at school. In my own experience it took years to understand what I was feeling and what my own mother’s feelings were about being an immigrant. It takes a certain awareness and empathy to even be curious, and I think by the events of FLX Anne was ready to listen.”
As a strong, emblematic conclusion to this episode and its premise, an original song is performed by Steven Universe creator Rebecca Sugar —the lyrics exemplifying how the concept of Christmas in this day and age can be enjoyed in any way you interpret it, regardless of your culture, and regardless of the religious origins of the holiday. An arbitrary meaning. There’s a poetic irony in Rebecca Sugar themselves being Jewish, which added another layer of authenticity to the message of the song and episode.
“You nailed [the premise], exactly. Rebecca themselves even laughed and commented on how they have always enjoyed Christmas from afar as an aesthetic, despite being raised Jewish. I, myself, was raised pretty non-religiously, but we celebrated X-mas just as a time to spend time with people you love . [Froggy Little Christmas] is my plea for others to accept that the holiday can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different groups.”
I was further intrigued by how Matt Braly got Sugar to compose and perform for Amphibia during pre-production, and I had assumed it was related to Matt Braly’s brief work on Steven Universe. To my surprise, this was his response —
“Rebecca and I have stayed in touch, even after I worked on SU. I have always been an enormous fan of their work and getting them to come in and do the song was honestly just a very generous / kind thing for Rebecca to do. I would say…it’s me who owes a favor now!”
It’s no surprise that discussion, explicit or implicit, of Southeast Asian culture, alienation, and xenophobia are intrinsic to the fibers of Amphibia. I wanted to prod into this metaphorical fabric further, as the scenes with Maggie harassing Anne for her traditional Thai food, and Sasha’s comment towards Anne during Reunion belittling her for “eating bugs” (which are national Thai delicacies) echoed intentional xenophobic undertones in my perspective.
“[Sasha’s comment] possibly on a subconscious level.
On an intentional level I think the scene where Maggie harrasses Anne at the start of Reunion was more a reflection of this xenophobia for me than Sasha’s behaivor. Calling the Thai snack a “puke-bun” was definitely reminiscent of when kids made fun of how my food smelled during lunch in elementary school.”
I was further curious if Sasha’s authority in her friendgroup with Anne and Marcy was implicitly fostered by her proximity to whiteness, or possibly why she was able to defend Anne from xenophobia in the aforementioned instance with Maggie. I knew beforehand that Matt Braly had based the trio on his childhood friendgroup, but I wasn’t aware that there was a direct parallel to sociological ethnic influences as well.
“Again, probably on a subconscious level. Sasha’s authority in the group was mirroring the ethnic dynamics of my own friend group growing up so that does reflect a reality of sorts.”
It’s extremely fascinating to see how much of Amphibia can be contextualized implicitly and explicitly by ethnic dynamics both within and outside of our protagonists’ social circle. As a west Asian child growing up in predominantly white institutions, I deeply connected with the societal influences on power structures seeping into something as commonplace as middleschool friendships, and found the portrayal in Amphibia to be quite authentic.
Further regarding Sasha, her last name, “Waybright”, is an anglicization of the Germanic “Weibrecht” — to which a handful of fans theorized she may be of German descent. I asked if there was any intent in her background, to which Matt puts in perspective:
“Sasha’s background is German/Slavic. Her name is actually a reference to the maiden name of one of our head development execs — Elizabeth Waybright Taylor. She helped develop the show and it quite frankly wouldn’t exist without her.”
A (not-so?) shocking revalation we were provided in Season 3 regarding Sasha’s background was her split-household situation. I personally wasn’t surprised that Amphibia would include the topic of divorce, especially since Matt Braly draws heavy inspiration from the aesthetics of Pepper Ann, a cartoon released in the late 90s that had heavy discussions of divorce, culture, and misogyny, explored through the lens of the titular character’s adventures in middleschool, though progressive for its time, still very stuck on 2nd-wave feminism. ( Matt in our interview even pointed out specific design influences from Tom Warburton’s work on Pepper Ann — “I think the influences can be felt especially in Anne’s body proportions and the swish of her skirt.” and that “Pepper Ann inspired the sort of grounded storytelling we have in S1.”)
I was further surprised to hear that Sasha’s home situation was slightly analogous to Braly’s childhood friendgroup —
“It is mostly from my own friend group’s experience. One of us went through a pretty difficult divorce and I think the three of us felt the ripples of that a bit. I want to clarify though that I do not think Sasha’s home situation is there to excuse her behavior in season 1.”
On the construction of the titular world of Amphibia, which we spent more time in during the earlier seasons, I was previously informed that the setting was based on Matt Braly’s childhood trips to Thailand, though I surmised there was a deeper significance to Wartwood borrowing from southern USA aesthetics. While it’s not common knowledge, many Vietnamese and Thai migrants live in the south and contributed to a lot of “emblematic” southern foods, despite pop culture whitewashsing its history. Here’s a great article about it.
I wondered if this had influenced the setting of Wartwood, though apparently it was just a coincidence with a different intention!
“Wartwood having a Southern feel was mainly just to make Anne feel more out of place, being a very California girl. I think we married Southern flavor with medieval European trappings because it created a nice blend.”
On the other hand, my observation regarding Thai culture and its connection and iconography with frogs was fairly in line with Matt’s vision in crafting the show around a frog motif.
“I picked frogs because they were great metaphors for change…which is the show’s central theme. But since the show was inspired by my trips to Thailand and there are TONS of frogs in Thailand, it also felt very appropriate. I remember after it rained, the streets were full of them.”
Pertaining to the topic of frogs and Thailand, I was curious if Matt had ever acknowledged that frogs are a Thai delicacy in the context of the show’s production, or if the show would acknowledge it for comedy.
“There is a joke coming that references this fact. Also, I took the storyboard artists to a Thai dinner once and we ordered frogs. One or two board artists were too mortified to try the dish, hehe.”
In other South Asian iconography, I had mistakenly interpreted the reveal of Anne’s middle name “Savisa” in season 3 as a reference to the Hindu deities Savitiri/Savitr, and the motif being carried through the flame decal on her shirt. However, the explanation was even more sweet and emotionally significant —
“Anne’s middle name is a reference to my cousin’s name — Savisa Bhumiratana. She is one of my favorite people and I really wanted her name in the show.”
[Anne’s shirt] design is not only a flame but also a lotus, which is very common in Thai iconography. The lotus in Thai culture is very much tied to spiritual awakening, which in turn is a nod to Anne’s blossoming powers. Actually in True Colors, you can see some of the Lotus shape language in her power aura…a wonderful bit of detailing that was conceived by Alex and Lindsay Small Butera (the animators of the scene).
Personally, I can’t wait to see what the latter half of season 3 will have in store for us. Amphibia has been such a treat for viewers, especially us who are from migrant families, in its socially conscious approach to culture and its societal implications in fantasy and reality. I am so honored to have been able to interview Matt Braly before the conclusion of the series, and ecstatic for what’s to come.
Thank you so much for reading this article. I wanted to apologize if any syntax or grammar is clunky in the text, as I am writing this during my finals week in Pharmacy School.
— Darya Baj.
