MSP’s defective blood tests unable to distinguish between THC and CBD cannabinoids
Michigan State Police Toxicology Unit Supervisor, Geoffrey French, has confirmed that his department’s method for testing THC levels in blood samples is unreliable. French also disclosed that MSP’s Forensic Science Division has been using their faulty THC testing process for over 20 years. Below is an excerpt of an interview this author conducted with French on August 25, 2022:
Eric VanDussen: I was wondering if you could give me any information on […] the MSP Crime Lab not being able to distinguish between THC and CBD in their, in your lab tests?
Geoff French: Yes, sir. I, I’m aware of the situation.
Eric VanDussen: Okay. And is there a memo that I could get from you regarding, that […]?
Geoff French: No, sir. There has been only verbal communication to the Prosecuting Attorneys Association of Michigan that went out this morning. The Forensic Science Division is planning on having a formal written memorandum that will also be sent to the Prosecuting Attorneys Association of Michigan, but that has not been approved through proper channels at Michigan State Police at this particular point in time. And it’s not something that I’m involved in the authoring of.
Eric VanDussen: Okay. So, the legal department, basically, is fly-specking that before it gets distributed?
Geoff French: Yeah, I would say so. Yes, sir. It probably might… I mean, my guess is that it probably will go all the way up to the colonel’s office for approval before that becomes disseminated.
Eric VanDussen: Okay. Do you know how long this problem has been going on?
Geoff French: I do- well, it’s, it’s, it’s quite some time. And we’ve been using the same procedures for many, many years.
Eric VanDussen: So this could have implications on prior convictions, as well as pending cases?
Geoff French: It is possible. Yes, sir.
Eric VanDussen: Okay. And who, who is the point person that would be, I would need to contact to get a copy of that finished memo or whatever you’re talking about distributing?
Geoff French: That’s a great question. Probably the division director, Mr. Jeffrey Nye. […] He is the, he is the, Director of the Forensic Science Division for the Michigan State Police […]
Eric VanDussen: So there’s nothing I could even FOIA at this point, is what you’re telling me?
Geoff French: There is no documentation. It is my understanding. I was involved in a meeting this morning with division brass and it’s my understanding that the only information that’s been disseminated, at this point, was verbal.
Eric VanDussen: Okay. To the prosecutors?
Geoff French: That’s my understanding. I mean, it’s a fluid situation. It could change. I’m not, you know, I’m not involved in writing of whatever it is that they’re going to write up to disseminate. So it could go out today. It may have already gone out. I don’t know. But I, I’m not, I’ve not been made aware of it, if it has.
Eric VanDussen: Okay. And you say this problem […] what is the testing mechanism, specifically? Is the mass spectrometer? Or what technology is it that’s being, has been used? And when, how long ago was that implemented by MSP, that testing method?
Geoff French: Oh, we’ve been doing it for at least 20 years.
Eric VanDussen: 20 years. […] What, what is the method? Is it the mass spectrometer? Am I saying that right?
Geoff French: We use a technique known as gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, to do our confirmatory tests for cannabinoids.
Eric VanDussen: Okay, yeah, that-
Geoff French: GCMS.
Eric VanDussen: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve been to some meetings with Dr. [Andreas] Stolz doing presentations on that. I’m sure you’re probably aware of him.
Geoff French: Yes, sir.
Eric VanDussen: How was it that MSP came to the conclusion that they can’t differentiate between THC and CBD after using this method for 20 years?
Geoff French: I would love to be open and forthright with you on this right now, but I probably should not divulge that at this particular point in time since we have not sent out [the] official memorandum.
Eric VanDussen: Okay.
Geoff French: I mean, I’d love to have a discussion about it with you maybe in a week or so when, you know, everybody knows about it. I mean, it’s not like I’m trying to hide anything. It’s just it’s, it’s, clear to, it’s a part of our procedure that worked perfectly fine for analysis for THC and carboxy THC. But unbeknownst to us, there’s an issue if there may also be CBD and carboxy CBD in that blood sample. And we were unaware that some substances may also, be essentially looking like THC and carboxy THC.
Eric VanDussen: You know-
Geoff French: That was something that came to light, honestly, pretty much this week, Monday, is when we figured things out.
Eric VanDussen: And do you know, by chance, whether or not other state crime labs or FBI labs use this same technology that MSP uses?
Geoff French: Well, the problem is specific to the reagents that we’re using. That’s what, that’s where, that’s wherein lies the problem. The extraction and the instrumentation are perfectly fine. It’s just a particular reagent or pair or reagents that we’re using that, causes the issue, essentially. As far as other labs, you know, historically, yes, this probably was a fairly common procedure as far as using that particular derivative or these types of reagents. But a lot of labs have moved on to other technologies. So it probably is a moot point for the testing protocols for many laboratories. And hopefully, it will be very shortly for us as well. Although, there’s nothing we can do about it. 20 years’ worth of tests that you’ve done, I mean, those tests are, you know, we did the tests. We reported the results. And-
Eric VanDussen: And people-
Geoff French: The results are there.
Eric VanDussen: And people went to prison, potentially.
Geoff French: I suppose I couldn’t argue that there could be some situations, particularly when the laws were different when THC was a, per se, you know, situation. It’s a little different now because you have to have impairment in order to substantiate a driving under the influence case. And a laboratory report doesn’t substantiate impairment. It just tells you what’s in the blood.
Eric VanDussen: Yeah. Like I said, I also work for a criminal defense attorney. And we’ve had clients that have, you know, been charged and convicted of moving violations causing death cases, over one nanogram [of THC in their blood] back in the day. So it goes back 20 years, I don’t know what kind of can of worms this issue’s going to open for potential people trying to reverse their convictions based on new, newly discovered evidence.
Geoff French: Sure. Oh, there’s no question there’s going to be, yeah, CBD defense. I guess we’ll call it.
Eric VanDussen: Yeah.
Geoff French: I, I mean, there’s, there’s just no questioning that. The thing that you should probably bear in mind, however, is that the use of CBD, in its raw form, in the absence of THC, is a relatively new phenomenon. So, you know, it’s highly unlikely that somebody would ingest CBD without ingesting THC. I mean, both compounds are in marijuana. So if you smoke marijuana that you grow in your back yard or that you buy from your local drug dealer or whatever, even if you get it from a vape now, you know, at, a-
Eric VanDussen: Provisioning center -
Geoff French: Dispensary or something like that. Yeah. I mean, if it’s, if it’s derived from plants, you know, it’s likely to have both substances in it. The relative percentage of those two substances may vary, depending on the strain of the marijuana and, you know, its potency as far as THC concentration is concerned. But, yeah, you’re going to, you’re going to be ingesting both substances, as well as probably about 100 other substances that are known as cannabinoids. Because anytime you in- you know, smoke plant material, there’s a lot of different things in that material. It’s not just THC. THC is the primary psychoactive substance in marijuana, however.
Eric VanDussen: Yeah, I’m, I’m aware of that. So, all right. Well, I guess, maybe I’ll put on my calendar to contact you as soon as I find out that that letter has been issued. And I’ll contact Mr. Nye, to follow up on that.
Geoff French: All right.
Eric VanDussen: Well, I appreciate your time.
Geoff French: Yeah. It’s not, not a great week for me, as you can well imagine.
Eric VanDussen: So what is your position, right now?
Geoff French: I am one of the two supervisors of the Toxicology Unit, here at the MSP Forensic Lab. And, you know, we essentially do all of the blood alcohol and drug testing for the entire State of Michigan here.
(This transcript of this interview was edited for length and clarity)
