F*** You, I Quit — Hiring Is Broken
Disclaimer: This is a story about my interview experience in the tech industry. No personal names will be used to preserve anonymity. The title refers to the industry as a whole, not to any particular company.
Who am I? My name is Sahat (@EvNowAndForever on Twitter), but you may know me better from my open-source projects and tutorials:
- Hackathon Starter
- Create a character voting app using React, Node.js, MongoDB and Socket.IO
- Build an Instagram clone with AngularJS, Satellizer, Node.js and MongoDB
- Create a TV Show Tracker using AngularJS, Node.js and MongoDB
I wrote this story to share my tech interview experience during past several months and why I’ve decided to stop looking for a job.
Scroll down to the end for post updates.
October 29, 2015 — a recruiter from Google reached out to me, asking if I would be interested in interviewing with them. Sure, why not. Unfortunately I was busy with personal matters at the time and asked to postpone the interview until January 22, 2016.
January 22, 2016. I am not sure why I even bothered to do this interview. Google is notorious for their interview process, I mean they have books written on how to pass a Google Interview. I don’t remember what the phone screen problem was about — some string manipulation algorithm problem — but it was neither interesting, nor memorable. No, I still didn’t understand the question, even after hanging up the phone. At no point was the interviewer interested in me as a potential candidate, or has asked me anything about my open-source work on GitHub and previous work experience. To be fair, I already knew about Google’s interview process that is optimized for hiring book-smart academic candidates who know their algorithms and data structures cold, so my expectations weren’t very high to begin with. There was a very popular post on Hacker News a while back called
Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but you can’t invert a binary tree on a whiteboard so fuck off. As much as I hate this style of interview, Google is in a unique position where they can use any hiring practices they want, because for every rejected candidate, they will have a hundred more lined up for an interview.
During this time period I was already in the process of talking to multiple recruiters, so instead of cancelling all my interview appointments (which I really wanted to do), I decided to just go with it, although I had less hope now after my BigCorp A interview. A recruiter from BigCorp B reached out to me on February 12, 2016. I sent him my resume, we had a brief chat (didn’t sound like the friendliest recruiter), never heard from him again. If that’s any indication of their work culture, maybe I really dodged a bullet there. And I am not the only one who shared that experience in regards to their poor communication, if Glassdoor reviews are any indication.
Well, ironically, that day there was a post on Hacker News — How to Pass a Programming Interview. This particular comment really hits the nail on the head:
“Being a good programmer has a surprisingly small role in passing programming interviews.”
And that just says it all, doesn’t it? I agree that interviews should test candidates on certain basic skills, including (time/space) complexity analysis. But do you really learn anything by asking the candidate if they can recite the time complexity of a moving window average algorithm (as I was asked to do by an interviewer yesterday)? What does the candidate’s ability to code a palindrome checker that can handle punctuation and spaces tell you about their ability to deliver robust, maintainable code?
I don’t have the answer, but I just don’t see how the questions typically asked in programming interviews give you a good picture of the candidate’s actual programming ability. I much prefer “homework” projects, even if they involve me working “for free”, because I feel like they ask for actual programming skills rather than the “guess the algorithm” lottery of phone screens and whiteboard coding.
Another comment (abridged) in the same thread really hits it close to home. It was like a reflection of my interview experience on that day:
“You need to be able to write a BFS cold, and you need to understand how a hash table is implemented.”
While this is great advice, it also demonstrates why people eventually develop interview fatigue over a career. I’m not talking about fatigue from your third interview this week, I mean, I mean fatigue that sets in over decades.
I don’t have an easy solution, since I actually do completely understand why tech employers rely on these exams. But I do think they take a serious toll on the field, and are a major contributing factor to attrition (as well as aversion among people who never go into the field at all). We, as developers, really do have to re-load complicated undergraduate coursework into exam ready memory over, and over, and over.
I’ll finish the way I always do: if you interview like this, that is your choice, and you should feel free do do so — I really mean this. But why then do these employers act mystified that there is a “shortage” of developers? It seems to me that aversion and/or attrition is a very natural outcome for the way we do things in software. “No thanks, I’ll do something else” seems like a very reasonable response to an industry that hires like this.
I know someone who is in a similar position as me, with whom I worked personally and can vouch for being an excellent programmer:
I have to say I’ve had really similar feelings, I’ve been preparing for job interviews by studying all the algorithms things I haven’t looked at for years. And I’ve thought about changing careers a number of times too, just because of how crazy the interview process is. It’s so stressful and so exhausting. I’ve done technical phone interviews almost every day for the past 2 weeks, sometimes companies want 2 technical phone interviews before proceeding, and that’s not including the phone interview with the recruiter! Then I have take-home assignments to do — one of which has taken over 1.5 weeks so far, it’s crazy, and so stressful.
After my interview experience with BigCorp C, I told the external recruiter not to message me again and that I was no longer interested in any further interviews with other companies.
One month earlier, a recruiter from Startup D based out of Brooklyn has reached out to me, praising me for my impressive GitHub contributions and showed a great interest in hiring me (take note BigCorp C). A few weeks later, I had a 1-on-1 meeting with a recruiter at a coffee shop which went pleasantly well. It was a refreshing change of pace after all those shitty corporate interviews. They decided to invite me directly for an on-site interview, without having to do a phone screen first.
I did not get an offer. Although my interview experience with Startup D was mostly positive, I really wish companies would be more transparent about their candidate rejection reasons. From this day on, I was even more disappointed — both with myself and tech hiring process — rejection, rejection, rejection. It honestly feels as if I am a complete failure and an unhirable candidate. How is this possible — I have received emails from people all over the world, who praise and give me thanks for the work I’ve done on my open-source projects and tutorials (and I say this as humbly as I can); people who see me as an expert on Hackhands; co-workers, friends and acquaintances from meetups, hackathons, conferences who apparently think I am a decent programmer—but I cannot pass a single tech interview. How? It doesn’t matter anymore. I am getting really tired of doing these interviews. What’s the point? I started to consider that maybe working in tech is not for me, and perhaps I got hired at Yahoo by some miracle or just pure luck.
At this point I was pretty much done with further interviews that haven’t been initiated already and had to reject a few companies, which I would consider under normal circumstances. Failing an interview — it’s not just a loss of precious time that I will never get back— but it takes a huge toll on me personally.
A week earlier, a recruiter from Startup E reached out to me, asking if I would be interested to work there. March 10, 2016 — I had an initial phone conversation with two senior engineers, they gave me a take-home project. I was able to finish it over a weekend. This was one of the rare cases where I actually enjoyed working on it. Afterwards, they invited me for an on-site interview at Startup E. Given my previous interview experiences, I was a little hesitant to do another one. I agreed, but only if I didn’t have to do all rounds at once.
March 23, 2016 — the second part of my Startup E on-site interview. Both rounds were 2-on-1 and were mostly conversational interviews with little to no coding. I prefer these interview formats because they do not put as much stress on a candidate as doing whiteboard problems under a time limit. During my second round, I once again confirmed that they are looking for an experienced engineer with video streaming and related technologies. All in all, if I had to rate my Startup E interview process, I would rate it very highly, a complete opposite of my interview experience with BigCorp C. But one thing I do not understand is — why did they reach out to me in the first place, because nowhere does it say on my resume that I have any experience with video. No offer, because they needed someone with more video experience.
March 30, 2016 — Startup E wanted me to come for another interview with a different team that deals less with video player/video streaming and more with front-end technologies — which is perfect for me! One of their products in particular is essentially a dashboard with charts, similar to what I have previously built at Yahoo for internal use using React and Flux. After considering it for two weeks, I decided to come for another interview after all. I didn’t have anything to lose at that point anyway. If it doesn’t work out, then I will probably just stop— I thought.
April 20, 2016 — No offer, no reason given, they decided to move forward with another candidate. When I asked the Startup E’s recruiter for a feedback — no reply. Feedback is too much to ask for these days, apparently. And this is not even half as bad as experience of some people who submit their take-home projects that they’ve worked on for days, or even weeks, that never got as much as a reply from a recruiter. And then you wonder why people get an interview fatigue.
I wish there was a word to describe how I feel right now…but nothing comes to mind. I have an urge to write an angry reply to a dozen of emails that I get from recruiters on a weekly basis, but instead — I just delete those emails nowadays, without feeling any remorse like I used to in the past.
It is really unfortunate it has to come to this, because I love coding, it is one of my greatest passions. If a 960+ days GitHub commit streak doesn’t prove it, then I don’t know what will. Don’t misunderstand, I do not consider myself to be an excellent programmer, maybe an average at best (who can’t even pass a single tech interview), and a GitHub commit streak has absolutely nothing to do with one’s competence, skill or ability to code. As I have said — I enjoy writing code and that’s the reason why I do it. We, engineers, are so fortunate because we get paid to do work that most of the time doesn’t feel like work at all, in contrast to the work my parents do every day. As for me, my job at Yahoo was my first and will likely be my last one. Enough is enough. I’ve hit my limit with this broken hiring bullshit in tech. No more.
As much as I would like, I don’t believe this story will change anything at all — things will just continue business as usual tomorrow. I am not the first, and I will not be the last one to write about “hiring is broken” stories. Give it a few weeks, and you will see a similar article on the front page of Hacker News. You have to adapt and deal with these frustrating tech interviews or you go do something else instead. I choose the latter, even if only out of the principle.
So, to end this story on a positive note, I will continue working on my GitHub side-projects — both maintaining existing ones and releasing new projects. In fact, I am working on a really awesome and exciting web tool that I plan to announce in late May! Additionally, I have some big plans for Satellizer — 1.0 release, React port and Angular 2.0 support. As for my source of income — I will figure something out. There is always consulting and freelancing, or switch careers while I am still in my 20’s. Or perhaps I will follow in TJ Holowaychuk’s footsteps and start my own company. Sky is the limit, if you’ve got time, money and motivation!
Thanks for reading!
There is so much negativity surrounding this story — I am getting attacked left and right, not by hiring managers and recruiters, but by my fellow programmers. Many comments are just personal insults directed at me, rather than the article or the hiring process in tech. But for all the hate and criticism, there seems to be just as many supporters who wholeheartedly agree with me on the issue.
If you haven’t noticed already, there is a massive divide in the community. Regardless of your personal opinion about me, there is a problem in the industry, otherwise this article wouldn’t have generated over 600+ comments on Reddit, 600+ comments on Hacker News and 100,000 views on Medium in the first 24 hours.
Instead of launching personal attacks at me or at each other, let’s work together and try to make this industry a better place to work at, starting with hiring.
Company names have been anonymized (with two exceptions). Why? I feel that I’ve made my point clear and said what I wanted to say. A few companies mentioned in this article have already reached out to me as a result of this post. But wait, isn’t it a little too late? Yes and no. Again, my point has been made and the story has been heard. I may have burned a lot of bridges by putting these companies on the spot and I have received a lot of judgement and criticism by putting myself on the spot, however, their further involvement with the story has no real benefit to me or to them.
I have never seen a Hacker News discussion so divided, thank you for all your responses, however, I feel that I should clear a few things up here.
I was told that I am already antagonistic, annoyed, and planning for failure before going into an interview. Some people have expressed an issue with my attitude, or at least the way it comes off in this post. Someone assumed I am the type of person to “rage quit” and have tantrums. If you read the HN discussion (link above), you will find plenty of people having similar feelings and aversion to tech interviews. I just happened to openly blog about it with full transparency. Also, keep in mind, this is a recollection of my interview experiences, some as far as 3 months ago, which may or may not accurately depict my mood, attitude and outlook — before, during and after the interview.
Some people have also expressed an issue with my rant about algorithms. For the record, I do have a degree in Computer Science, and I have read a fair amount of Introduction to Algorithms, 3rd Edition during my college years. Do I remember how to implement those algorithms? No. Do I need to? (on a daily basis) No. When I am building something that requires the use of those algorithms, I will go look it up. My point is — asking to implement something like a BFS on a whiteboard (however simple and trivial it may be) has absolutely no relevance for the majority of open software engineering positions (especially front-end), neither does it test problem-solving skills if a candidate has memorized a bunch of algorithms one day before an interview.
Lastly, I may have made it look like recruiters are these terrible, evil people, but my frustration was not directed at them, but rather at the interview process.
Thanks again for all your comments, feedback and support!