INTERVIEW: MICHAEL GIACCHINO

An abridged version of this interview previously appeared in SciFiNow magazine.

Charlie Brigden: Alright. So it’s a long way from Maui Mallard.

Michael Giacchino: Yeah. Well, that was a long time ago. I can still remember sitting in the little studio that I built over at Disney, writing that. You know, they had asked me. Some of that I wrote at home, some of it I wrote at Disney. But that was…it was a long time ago [laughs]. A long time ago.

CB: So where did your interest in music start?

MG: You know, I watched…as a kid I was obsessed with monster movies. So every Saturday morning we would watch this show called Creature Double Feature and it was out of Philadelphia. And it was at one o’ clock on Saturdays. And you would get two monster movies. And it was sort of an obsession me and my brother would do it, watch Ultraman, Godzilla, King Kong, The Thing, The Hand, you know, all of these different crazy movies. And I always loved the music from them. And the ones I loved the most were the Ray Harryhausen films. You know, the Sinbad movies, a lot of those. Music by Bernard Herrmann in them. So I was just always just fascinated and I loved the music that was behind these things. But not so much in order to write music, I didn’t know anything about that. I just liked it. And I started listening to more and more instrumental music, grabbing records from my dad’s library. And then when I saw Star Wars of course, then I was like “oh. Soundtracks, I can buy soundtracks.” And I started just buying soundtracks endlessly.

So I just…I loved just the way that they could fill your mind with a story, or take you I back to whatever film that that was a part of, because as a kid could couldn’t watch it on TV again, or you couldn’t there were no DVDs or VHS. If it was out of the theatre, it was gone. So the only way to relive that movie was by listening to its score. And back then, from years prior, film scores were so great at just bringing you right back to either a theme or a melody that is associated with that particular film or character. And it was just a, it was just sort of a fun time, being a kid and growing up with all that, just exploring with no real idea of where it would ever take me.

CB: So from what I understand as a producer, you could hire yourself to compose?

MG: Yeah, that was basically how it worked. Once I was working, out of school I was working at Disney in their marketing department. And I’d been there for a little while. And the position opened up for an assistant producer in the interactive department. So I went over and interviewed and got the job. And I was there and making these games with them, and I was into this and making these games with them, I started realising that “oh wait a minute, I should really think about trying to hire myself to write the music for these games.” Because I remembered I’d learned in marketing, you know, I learned an awful lot about the film business during my time in marketing.

And one of the things I knew was that the producer was the guy who hired everyone. And I thought “well, if I’m a producer, then I can hire myself for work.” [laughter] And as I spent time there they got to know me better, and they knew that I was interested in writing music and that I had a small studio at home, and they asked “could you put one here?” And I did, and it just kinda grew from there. And it’s just one of those examples of just being on the inside of something, when the opportunity was available to do…you know, when the need arose and the needed music quickly, “doesn’t Michael do music? Why don’t we talk to him?” So it all sort of worked together, the fact that I was pushing to do that, and the fact that they then needed something, and it just kind of grew organically out of just being there.

CB: And I guess the big milestone was The Lost World?

MG: Yeah, I mean that video game was something I hadn’t really counted on being a part of, because I was working on a completely different project at DreamWorks at the time. And I was working in their interactive division. And, you know, they had just started up back then. I mean, Steven, Jeffrey and David Geffen had just got together basically and made that company, so I was there from day one when it was formed. And it was an incredibly exciting time to see that sort of thing happen. Up until then it was like Universal and all these big studios and the fact that these guys, who, we all love what they’ve done got together to say “hey, let’s do our own company.” That felt like very much the kind of stuff we would do as kids, when you’re just like “hey, let’s all make a movie together!” And there was something exciting about that.

And it was almost as if it was said before they were ready to even do it. And then it’s like “okay, we have our film division. Now we want an interactive division, we want a TV division.” They were going to just do everything. And to be there at the time was being put together was really amazing. So when The Lost World came around, they were going to do that on Playstation. And Sega Saturn I think too. And the intention at the time was just to do a MIDI score for it, because the company didn’t want to spend money on a real orchestra. But Steven would come in and check in on all of the animation, and the game, and he was very interested and fascinated by games at the time.
And while he was making The Lost World over at the Universal lot, he would stop over at the office on his way home, and check out what was happening. So they had a review with him one day and one of the producers of course said “we should have music for this thing. Maybe Michael could write something.” The meeting was tomorrow morning, Steven was going to stop by on his way to the set. And so he asked me “would you just write something for this animation?” I think they were doing something for the very first level. And I said “sure.” So I went home that night, wrote a piece of music, brought it in, gave it to him and forgot about it.

And a couple of hours later, my phone rings up in my office. And it was the producer Patrick, “Steven wants to talk to you, and could you come down and meet with him?” So I talked to Steven and Steven said “hey, I love this music. You’ll do the music for the whole game, right?” And I was like “sure.” And he was the one who also said…”well, we have to do it with a live orchestra.” Now if it wasn’t for him saying that, I don’t know what I’d be doing now, today, who knows. But the fact that he gave me that shot, and I went to Seattle and used a lot of players from the Seattle Symphony to record it. And he was so complimentary and very supportive, and just kept saying…giving me more and more opportunities, you know, whether it be DVD or other video games or just kind of sprang off from there.

And then those games that I worked on, The Lost World, Medal of Honor, a guy named Jesse Alexander who was one of JJ Abram’s best friends, he had all those soundtracks and he kept giving them to JJ. “Listen to this, listen to this!” And then when it became time for JJ to do Alias, JJ just called me and said “hey, do you want to work on this with me? I’ve been listening to all your soundtracks and I love them. So what do you say?” And it just sort of…one thing just kind of led to the other, and it was all about the work. Once you did the work, it went out into the world, someone there hears it, and then you connect with a new person. And it just kept happening. And that’s the way it happened for The Incredibles as well, because he had heard from different people that Disney, without me, and he had also listening to the music on Alias. So you just never know what’s going to happen to the work you put out into the world, and it was just one of those things. It just kept sort of…like the domino effect. [laughter]

CB: So obviously you did Jurassic World later. Did you sneak anything from The Lost World in there?

MG: Oh yeah yeah, I put The Raptor’s Theme in there during the chase when the motorcycle and the truck, during that whole section. And it was fun to see on Twitter how many fans of the original Lost World called it out. You know, I thought “no-one’s going to notice this. That’s just fun for me to do.” But a lot of people mentioned it. And I was like “well that’s kinda cool. That’s fun.”

CB: Is there any kind of film genre that you haven’t tackled yet that you’d like to?

MG: I don’t know. That’s a good question. I think…it would be nice to do a serious World War II film. Even though I thought “oh, I’m never going to write World War II music again” because I’ve written so much of it over the years in the video game realm that I thought “okay, that’s there, I did it.” [laughs] But I think that would be interesting to do something that’s more dramatic, more of a drama like that. But look, the truth is, I tend to work on all the films I enjoy working on. I work on the types of movies that I would have loved watching as a kid. And for me, it’s just still fun to do that. So I don’t think too much about any other genres, more about “okay, what is my friend Matt Reeves directing now?” Do you know what I mean? It’s been more turned into a group of friends making stuff, and we all kind of help each other. And that’s kind of where it is, and I like that. It’s gotten to a place where it feels like “oh yes, that’s what it was like when I was younger.”

CB: Excellent. Going on from games and films, what’s the kind of…is there many differences between writing for films and writing for games?

MG: No, not really, to be honest with you. I mean, look, it’s been a while since I’ve done games so games are probably very different now too as well. But you’re dealing with picture and story. So you have to, as far as the writing goes, the writing is always the same. Now some video games may have ways of changing the music depending on what you’re doing within the game. And we did a little bit of that. I remember on Metal of Honour: Frontline and some of the Call Of Duty games. So I’ve done that. And that, it feels very much just like writing a story in the way that you would for a film, you know. And it’s the same thing between animation and film, it’s no difference whatsoever. You’re always worried about the tone and the story and the emotions and those are the things that you have to concentrate on whether it’s a game or TV show or animated film or live action, it doesn’t matter. You’re always…you have the same goals in mind for all of them.

CB: Would you like to go writing back for games at all?

MG: It would really depend on who I would be working with, and what the game was, you know. It’s not something that I actively pursue at the moment, because I’ve been just back to back with the films that I can’t even imagine where the time would come from to do it. But I’m not against it, it’s just a [interruption in interview] Yeah, but I don’t know. Like I say I’m not against it but it would take something special. [laughs]

CB: Okay, I’m going to play a little word association. I’m going to say a couple of scores and films that you’ve done and I just want you to tell me the first thing that comes to mind about them.

MG: Alright.

CB: Ratatouille.

MG: Standing on the driveway outside of my old house when Brad calls me, and told me we are not going to do what he said we were going to do next, but instead do a film about a rat who wants to cook and I was kind of like “what?” [laughs]

CB: How did you come up with writing music for food?

MG: Oh, you know what, that was something Brad and I had a lot of conversations about. About what would certain kinds of food sound like. I remember there was a scene where Remy’s brother is talking about food, and Remy is trying to explain to him what it tastes like, and there was this whole conversation about “how do we describe that with music? How do you describe a sense of taste in music?” So there was a lot of talk about that. And it’s a very small little moment in the film, but we probably talked more about that than anything else in the movie. Because it was so abstract and so strange and the idea of okay, rounder sounds would maybe be grapes. You know, it got a little esoteric after a while. But it was fun. It was fun.

CB: Was it nice to be able to write the song as well?

MG: Oh, yeah, that was great, that was a blast. And to work with Camille was a dream, she’s fantastic. And an incredible singer, so talented. She brought a lot to the thing and the harmonies and all of the experimentation we did when we recorded it, she was a lot of fun. And I loved doing that. It’s always a lot of fun to write a song, it’s a very different thing than when you’re dealing with score.

CB: Okay. So going to another Pixar, which is Up.

MG: Oh, let’s see, Up. I remember playing the theme for Pete, the theme that I felt like would be the one that we did, because there was a couple of iterations where we weren’t really super…it’s like anything else, you iterate, you come up with a version of it, and then you try and make it stronger and stronger. And I remember the first time when we started this process and we were up in San Francisco and I started playing…we were at dinner with a bunch of people from the film, and he was putting on headphones, listening to the different versions and we were talking about it and it was really loud in the restaurant. And he had to kind of lean down under the table with his headphones and push them into his ear so he could hear. But really, that was how we first started listening to ideas for Up, was in this crowded restaurant. That was very funny.

CB: What was the point when you realised that the “married life” sequence was going to be I guess what it came to be, which is the kind of signature scene of that film?

MG: I mean, I always knew it was an important scene in the film, because it really laid the groundwork for the entire story. But I didn’t realise how it would affect people or what would come of it until after the film was released, and people just kept talking about it and how much they love that scene, you know. And now…when people come up to randomly, it’ll be one of two things. It’ll either be to talk about Lost, or it will be to talk about Married Life. And those are the two things that everyone seems to have found a place for in their own life. And it’s kinda interesting, it’s not something that I thought or even imagined would happen. It was just about, at the time, “alright, we’ve got to finish this movie. We’ve got to get this done [laughs] and do it the best we can.”

And you know, when we recorded the piece, I remember we all sat there and when it was over, everyone’s crying. So I definitely knew people were affected, but again, to me it’s all one, it’s all part…it’s all together. The story and the music and the images, they all work together. So it wasn’t like I was sitting there going “look what I did!” It just was more of “oh my God, look at what we did. This is really cool.” So I think that the response has been surprising for me, because up until then I was just sort of living the production aspect of it, you know. And you don’t think too much about it once it goes out into the world, what’s going to happen to it then. So it’s always a nice surprise when it goes out into the world and you find “hey wait, people like that, that was cool.” So…

CB: And you won the Oscar.

MG: Uh, yeah. That too. [laughter] Yes, yes, yes. That was…you know. Never a bad thing.

CB: Absolutely not. Okay, so Lost.

MG: Yes. Lost. Well, I remember sitting with JJ…we were going to have a spotting session, which is where you both watch the cut of the film together before you score it. And we got through about, I don’t know, twenty minutes of it, and JJ and I were talking back and forth about what would be cool this and that, and we’re supposed to watch the whole thing together, but then he goes “okay, you got it. We’re both on the same page. Let’s just go ahead and do it.” And I remember just being “okay, okay, here we go.” And I went off and did it. But he’s always been very trusting and he’s an incredible collaborator and someone who’s great to bounce ideas off of and get honest feedback. And I sort of treasure that relationship, it’s a fun working thing. And we’re always pushing each other to do the best we can. And it’s fun, you know, because he’s very much like a brother to me in the fact that we will just argue with each other about the way things should be and…but it’s always about just getting the best. And it’s always fun working with him, it’s just great.

CB: Okay. John Carter.

MG: John Carter. I remember going to the set in London while they were shooting, with my son Mick and we got to go visit them and the sets were incredible, this big cave. And there was another set in one of the palaces that took place. And I always love visiting sets, I always love visiting when they’re shooting. It’s really great. So yeah, I remember that day on set and visiting and meeting everyone and just kind of hanging out and watching Andrew shoot. And Andrew looked like he was having so much fun doing it, and the crew was great. So yeah, that was the first thing that popped into my mind.

CB: And then Rogue One.

MG: Rogue One, well, I remember trying to book a vacation, and the phone ringing, and then having to cancel that vacation, you know? I hadn’t been away for a long time, and we were planning on doing something, and I was just about to book all the hotels and everything and then the phone rang and that came and it was kind of like “oh well, I guess that’s going to have to wait.” [laughs] So it was…And then to find out on top of all that there was only four and a half weeks to get it done, I mean, that was just a little nuts. So that whole thing went from zero to a hundred in a matter of no time at all.

CB: So what happened when you first heard those two words “Star Wars”?

MG: Ohhh, well, it was more…my mind was like “okay, how can I get this done?” I’d like immediately started to just think about the logistics. “What do I need to do to get this done, I mean, do I have to”…I had to go to London first, I met with everyone. I got back…I was still finishing recording Doctor Strange. I was finishing up another film when that call came. So there was a lot of…there was just a lot of logistics going through my head. It was more about “alright, if I’m going to do this, how can I best get it done for them and make sure…”

It wasn’t…my head didn’t immediately go “yeah, I get to work on Star Wars!” or anything like that. It was just a very sort of, you know, it was a serious job that I needed to make sure I didn’t mess up. That was like a big, big thing in my head. The fan side of me is one thing and it’s fine, and that’s all fun. But these things are…but there’s an enormous amount of work that goes into one of these things once you say yes. That’s immediately where my head goes. And it’s not until after it’s all done and over with that you can really sort of enjoy the other aspect of it, which is the “that was really fun, working on a Star Wars film.” But prior to that, it’s really, you just want to do the right thing and get it done in the best way you can.

CB: Did you hear anything from John Williams about it?

MG: You know, John was off, and still…John was working on The Last Jedi at the time, and just getting themes ready for that. And he had some other film as well that he was doing. So he was so busy himself. But he and I have had a great relationship over the years, you know, he’s been very, very positive and supportive and sending me notes and things like that, or call me when he hears something that he likes. He’s been great. And I know that…I’m sure if he had all the time in the world he would have loved to have been in there doing it too, you know. It’s just one of those things of we’re only human, you only have so much time to be able to pull something off, so…

CB: You seem quite a bit of a character in I guess the enthusiast’s circles, I think because you have as much enthusiasm for film music as we do. And also there’s your sense of humour. But also a real kind of humbleness there. Is that important to you?

MG: Oh yeah, those are always fun. Look, I go to Comic Con every year, I go to comic books stores, you know. I enjoy all of this stuff in the same way that everyone else does, you know. And I enjoy kind of sharing that experience when I go to things like D23 or whatever, it’s nice. It’s nice to meet people. That the work that I’ve done has affected them in some way, that’s pretty amazing, and I can’t even imagine. Like I said, the world is huge and you sort of forget what happens once you put something out there, you know. And it’s a nice reminder when you’re working on something, like you’re frustrated and tired, “this means something to people.” And so it always kind of refocuses me and makes me get back to doing the best I can and figuring out a new, fun…take the approach of “how would I want it done if it was a movie I was a kid about to go see?” Or “this was a movie when I was a kid that I was going to go see.”

I would like to…I remember that enthusiasm about going to the movies and all of that. I really do carry that into the projects I work on. And I try to work with people who feel the same way too, as far as directors and producers go. I like the producers that feel like “this is really fun to do.” And Frank Marshall, who produced pretty much all my favourite movies, he’s still that way. Working with him on Jurassic World was an incredible experience. The guy still gets really excited about what they shot that day or what they did or where they’re going or… It’s amazing to see. And I love that this business allows for us to be that enthusiastic and incredibly invested in the things that we do, it makes it a lot of fun. And then to put that out into the world and share it with people makes it even more fun.

CB: You’ve had a couple of films that have just come out. First, War of the Planet of the Apes. What did you take from Caesar’s character for his theme?

MG: Well, I mean, there was a melody from Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. But we don’t use it that much in the new one because I think the new film really takes him to a new, darker, more challenging place than the last one did. And so there was a lot of opportunities to write new ideas and new themes for the film and really it was all…how do you deal with loss? How do you deal with that? What do you do in order to sort of get past it? And he was a character who was having a real tough time getting past the idea of loss, after having patience, more patience than anyone can imagine over the last couple of films. He really then just lost it and ended up going on this revenge journey. So for me, it was all about “what would that feel like inside?” Because I think behind a lot of anger, is always sadness. There’s a disappointment that triggers this anger. And what are you going to do with that? That’s the question. And for me is was just about exploring those ideas within the character of Caesar.

CB: And Spider-Man as well. One thing a lot of people have loved is the use of the original, the sixties theme for the logos. Was that kind of chosen as an intent on your part and the producer’s?

MG: Yeah. No, that actually happened two years ago. Keven Feige who runs Marvel and I, we were walking back to my car after a meeting one day. We just were talking about it and Kevin said, “what do you think of the old Spider-Man theme?” And I was like “oh my God, I love the old Spider-Man theme.” I said “in fact, I’ve been dying to do a giant orchestral version of it. I think it would be so fun.” And he was like “let’s do it for Comic Con! Let’s do it, let’s do it!” So we did it for Comic Con. Not this past Comic Con, but the one prior to that. And they had Spider-Man and they showed a bunch of clips from it and all of this. We had that playing when…that was the introduction to the Spider-Man segment of the Hall H panel.

And it just got everyone so excited. It was so crazy to watch that hall just explode when that theme came on. And it was really just fun. And again, that just came out of Kevin and me being two geeky nerds who were just like “wouldn’t it be awesome if we did this? It would be so fun!” And so then we decided let’s just take out my logo that I did for Marvel and put it in the Spider-Man one that I did for the Spider-Man movie. It would be a lot of fun to see that against the Marvel logo. Sort of like a “welcome home Spider-Man” type of thing. Putting Spidey back where he belongs.

CB: So with your albums, do you enjoy producing them?

MG: Yeah, I do, I do. I mean it’s always a rush and it’s always…as the film is being finished they’re always banding “we need the files if we put the soundtrack out” and that always happens at the last second. So it’s sort of a process that you kina go through, you know, and there’s not a whole lot of sitting around and being creative about things. It’s just like “alright, get them on the album, get them in order. How many minutes can we fit on this? Alright, let’s figure out which tracks do we want on here.” It’s a little more rushed than probably you would imagine. And it’s just something that needs to get done, so you do it. And then afterwards you’re always like “oh, well, we should have done this or that”, because you just don’t have time to spend on it…to truly think it through. So you do the best you can.

And sometimes things get lost in the mix. I mean, one of the things on the War of the Planet of the Apes album, we ended up calling the end credits just End Credits. I was like “what? What were we thinking? We just called that End Credits? How did that happen?” It was just like a paperwork mishap. Somebody didn’t get a certain title and it ended up just as End Credits. And it was just sort of like “uh, that’s humiliating. That’s not good.” So, you do the best you can.

CB: So just on a quick tangent from there about listening for a second, what are some of your personal favourite scores of other composers?

MG: Well, probably anything by Bernard Herrmann right off the bat, you know. Again, starting my exposure to him started with the Harryhausen movies. So from there on, then it became the Hitchcock films and all of that. Of course, King Kong was probably one of my first loves, by Max Steiner. That is an incredible score which I go back to. I don’t listen to a lot of stuff in recent years because when I’m done working the last thing I want to do is hear music. But King Kong is something that I will put on once in a while because it’s amazing and I love that movie. But I remember both Poltergeist and Planet of the Apes had a huge impact on me, those scores. I love them both but Jerry Goldsmith. and I think, you know, Star Wars of course. John Williams. But Bruce Broughton is another composer, Silverado is one of the best scores ever. There’s so many guys that are incredible, incredibly sort of inspirational to me. As I grew up too, I mean, James Howard, I listened to his albums. And it just goes on and on. It’s a never-ending sorta thing. And it spills way past film music, it goes into jazz with Benny Goodman and Louis Prima and it goes into…it’s just about any kind of music you can imagine, I like. And so the ranges are far and wide.

CB: So with the type of music you write, and going back to people like Herrmann and Steiner and Waxman and things like that, do you feel any responsibility to keep that kind of music current in the film-scoring world?

MG: I like to think that it’s important to, just for me, you know…look, it’s more about just what I like. I prefer that style of storytelling music. I love themes, I love when themes get applied to characters and situations, I love that operatic approach, that sort of Max Steiner with King Kong all those years ago, and it help true all the way to today. now there are a lot of scores out there now that are more either effect-driven or rhythm-driven or just sort of droney. And sometimes, depending on the film, that can work amazingly. That can be great. But I always prefer when there’s a big ensemble, an orchestral thing that’s happening or some melody that you can latch onto and remember that really associates the story with the film and…That’s just my preference. I sort of grew up listening to that style of storytelling and it just never left me.

Thanks to Michael and Maria Giacchino.