John Wesley Gaddis
Jul 27, 2017 · 19 min read

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the first automatic program in the back of our minds is are you more like me than not like you see the world the same way I do do you have the same viewpoints and if you do then I can trust you that’s the first one hello sales

nation I will Be the host of the Salesman podcast on today’s episode we have Tom Schrader and we’re talking about rapport how we can build it the importance of building it before we leverage trust or anything else that we need to

close deals and yeah I think it’s an important topic and I’m gonna do a few more episodes and next few weeks to go into it in more detail you can find out more about Tom over at fortune now calm he is a pretty prolific author and is

also a keynote speaker and with that all set let’s dive in today’s episode hey Tom welcome to the salesman podcast thank you you’re more than welcome sir okay so today I want to talk about trust belief influence all these things

rapport that we band around and I want to get your insights on how we can build them faster and and how we can get deeper with these rather than the usual what happens in b2b sales of hey nice to meet you handshake and then

most people just blurt out with a pitch and it’s awkward it’s it’s it’s horrible to watch and it’s not a nice experience to be on the other side of it so let’s get started with this in and hopefully you agree with this I’d be interesting if you

don’t but do you believe that rapport is always the first step in all of this to build trust and to build influence with people you’ve just met I think rapport is just about almost everything if you don’t have rapport they’re not going to

believe anything you say people don’t buy from people they don’t trust and they don’t engage with people they don’t don’t believe so if you don’t have rapport or you don’t even have a ticket into the ballpark so it’s gonna be difficult

and and just to go back on that do people buy from people the perhaps trust but don’t like or do they have to like you as well I think they have to be pretty desperate to buy from somebody they don’t like you have to be really desperate I

think you can really up your chances by having a poor and that’s that happens so quickly though I always did a little demonstration when I’m in the UK there I say to the group trust me I’m an American and that always brings a laugh

and I said well how quick did we make a decision to trust somebody or not and they said well that was really quick or I could say trust me I’m from the tax authorities and I’m here to help you we got a decision already but we don’t

realize as sales people is that people are constantly making decisions about us and the first decision they’re going to make is can I trust you and believe you and that’s over so quick having a handshake and how’s the weather is

probably we waste our chance to get rapport so that’s pretty ugly you’re right let’s go as best as we can step by step through this process where does this start does this start from and I’m talking like the main chunk of rapport rather

than everything stop see you could go into super detail with this but does this all start with that first contact whether it be an email or phone call or an introduction or a people’s decisions still quite open at that point so they’re not set

in their ways does it start really when you meet face-to-face perhaps usually the decision is almost instant in humans for instance if I say the word chocolate chances are people have already made a decision as to four major food groups

or if I were to say Lester City football people already made a decision how they feel about that so if the decision is instant we have to ask ourselves why is it so quick what’s it formed upon and usually the primary program our minds

are saying this or saying do you have the same viewpoint I do if you have the same viewpoint I do well then there’s a pretty good chance that you’re going to see the same facts and make the same decision I do so the first automatic

program people are not aware of it but the first automatic program in the back of our minds is are you more like me

than not like you see the world the same way I do do you have the same viewpoints and if you do then I can trust you that’s the first one well let’s go a bit deeper than that as well because all you you keep using the word make a decision

are we actually making a decision or is the decision be made for words based on kind of as you alluded to then programs or references of important place in the past a good way of looking at it is people store programs in the back

of their mind they store decisions because we can’t figure everything out if you walk down the aisle at Sainsbury grocery store and you see a thousand item you can’t really reason do I want this or not on a thousand items store

decisions would go down there no no no no no no no candy bar yes no no no no no we’ve stored the station so in the back of their mind I would say a lot of people have a store decision about a Salesman so if you come across as a sales

when they might have a store decision saying salesman to be skeptical they’re going to take my money too good to be true what’s the catch being negative competent objections appear not interested so we have to be careful of triggering

these programs on the human mind is mostly a collection of stored decisions based upon our experiences in the past but how do we then predict some of this because the salesmen the salesmen want is an obvious one being people

throughout the years and I’ve never even though always worked in sales I’ve never been called a sales person I’ve been an account manager and I can’t think of the some of the weird titles I’ve been given when I worked in medical

device sales and that consultant and I guess that is precisely that if you were the sales consultant or something yeah someone’s then expecting you to be pitching out them in and trying to suck value in and take their money are there

any other things before we meet the prospect that we should be thinking of along those lines well it depends on the business but if you’re all your pre approached material looks like a TV commercial chances are they’re going to have

their salesmen program triggered and you’re right that’s why people call themselves consultants technicians all kind of different words just so people don’t set up a precondition response I got to be careful I can’t believe you it’s over

yes the stations are stored the best way of putting it that way would be let’s say we’re one years old learning to walk we have our left leg locked hanging on to the crib we look down there’s only one leg left that’s the right leg we swing

it around and after a while after a month or two we form a decision in our mind a program that’s always left foot than the right foot left foot the right foot it’s always that way we don’t even think about it and so now when we meet

people we do certain things we don’t even think about it but it triggers a program in their mind that they’ve accumulated over the past based upon past experiences that’s either good or bad so I tell people if you’re going to try

to trigger a program what trigger a positive one something that’s better than tricking a negative one which almost kills you from from the start this is really your he won’t step ahead of me of every question here I’m finding this

fascinating interview so far so triggering these positive side of things flipping everything we talked about on its head what can we trigger and I guess there’s some laws of influence or things that we can look at and but what should we

be triggering a nun attempting and consciously going out to touch and prod in the prospects mind to build trust perhaps rapport and also this influence as well what do we need to how do we turn ourselves well here’s the easiest

one a major program in people’s brains is are you more likely than not like me I can trust people who are like me and

that’s why people tend to trust and believe people the same religion the same political party the same city the same sports team same activities you know same brand of beer we tend to trust people who are more like us than dislike us

an example I like to give is you go to yearn England so you go to mmm let’s say China billion Chinese people around you and you meet somebody from England now you’re way up in north and Leeds and you say so where are you from

and that person says I’m from South Hampton and you say I’m from Leeds and you both hug each other we’re neighbors and it’s distant report because that person is more like you than the billion Chinese people around you so

the first thing they’re looking for is are you more like me than not like me which brings the obvious question how do you trigger that in somebody’s mind and the easiest way is to start off with one fact in the known universe that they

believe in you believe so if you start off with one fact that they believe in you blue if they say hey you know what you’re more likely than not like me you see the world from the same viewpoint and since you talk business-to-

business if I was talking to a business about advertising I might start off by saying advertising it’s just so expensive and they might be saying oh man you read my mind and then I say and we’d rather have extra money for advertising

by reducing our current expenses they might say yeah you’re right about that and we might say but the best part is if we get our customers bring people and it won’t even cost us anything and they’re saying you’re a genius Vulcan

mind-meld blood brother blood sister and by just talking to them from their viewpoint by saying facts that they believe that makes it pretty easy for certain that’s the easiest way to for most people build rapport almost right away

and I’ve got loads of examples of this one strikes me that happened really recently in that I’ve got a Mazda rx-8 love rotary cars talked about on the show before some guy in garage ones filling up the of day cables our nice cars I you

know thank you because it doesn’t happen very often and it’s it’s always a rotary enthusiast who says nice car because you know it’s not a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or push enter and appreciate that so of course it chatting to him erodes

erodes and Erik Satie races them is really big into it and instantly we were best friends and that just came to mind that little anecdote is you it selling out then and does this scale with if you if you share a fact that is super narrow

focused is that does that build more rapport than perhaps a more general fact about hey we’re both in advertising versa is hey we both drive rotary sports cars that’s where I research comes in if we do our pre approach as

salespeople we should know a lot about our prospect and the deeper and or more narrows you say that would be like beyond awesome so if we need our salespeople to actually focus on the research finding out more about that person

and really dig down deep they can have instant rapport probably one or two sentences and it’s not all it takes is an what will and go with this now is that once you’ve perhaps built that initial bit of rapport is it then the game not to

lose it or do you continually need to build upon it well I would like to look at sales from this viewpoint that most the people we talk to let’s say we have a really great product which we all do and the people we talk to desperately need it

which makes sense so if most of people we talk to is pre-sold absolutely pre solely desperately need what we have to offer and we have to offer and they tell us no that would probably tell us that we lost rapport so if we have this great

product we built rapport all we really have to do is just show them what the product is and they’re pre-sold it wouldn’t take any type of sales manipulation or anything it’s just putting our message inside their brain by passing

all these salesman filters and skepticism that we build up by not having rapport so that’s the real essence is obviously

getting our message inside their head where they believe it and if it’s going to serve them they can figure that out like instantly and it’s not the skill and in the art of sales rather than the science then of you doing building the rapport

ticking all these check boxes and then leaving it to the prospect to make a decision because some people wouldn’t agree with that and some sales experts Avedon would say that no it’s your responsibility if you believe in your

products to get it in their hands should we be letting them make the end decision it seems like a stupid question to ask but I think it’s a valuable one to to take into consideration well they’re always going to make the indecision if we

turn it late pretty tough road I think the easier road is to say they need this we have it how do we communicate that in the easiest ways just to remove the barrier of rapport and once inside their head they can figure out if it’s going to

stir them today or not you know maybe it’s like a server day because they have budgetary problems or maybe the committee won’t meet till next month but it’s inside their head and when the time is right they can choose but to

force it ahead of time but that I’m not sure that might even be a disservice to the customer especially of financing problems or other issues and let’s get into the message in itself then are there any way because and I’ll prerequisite

this in that we’ve had loads people to come show to talk about body language and mirroring and things like that I’m always a bit even though there might be some evidence for it most bit sceptical and generally my thoughts on it are

that and then clearly my thoughts on the the be-all and end-all but my thoughts on it are that you’re probably better just focusing on them being present in the moment asking good questions rather than trying to juggle plates and do

different things at once but the messaging and the wording of things I think that can be important are there any ways to rephrase our conversation to plan beforehand how we’re going to say things to get deeper at ingrain ourselves in

the subconscious of the prospectin and to I guess bypass some of these things that we’re talking about can you do that through language alone I think language helps a lot a body language I give you an example first on body

language babies from the age six weeks can do this or laying on the back they can’t even roll over yet they can’t talk but they can look up at an adult and how do they know which adult to trust the adult smiles and from six weeks the

baby can respond by smiling back so one of the easiest ways to increase rapport or even to build rapport with a simple smile and I tell people if you smile so seems like some sort of stupid program in it from birth it says if

somebody smiles they can’t be trusted I think who made up that program in her mind but if you smile your odds go way up versus just being a serious frown so I tell people oh hey you want increase your odds learn to smile if you’re

kind of a grumpy person y’all accounting is a good career too you know let’s do it going over to your right in about words though right let me give a couple example words if I start off by saying to be perfectly honest with you that

kind of tells people I wasn’t honest with them before but on the inverse of that if you were to say these simple four words well you know how those four words tell them in the back of mind well I know how then it must be true

because what I know is true no further proof needed and apparently when we say well you know how people will not even ask for proof as long as whatever we say is reasonable so if you have a fact by putting well you know how in

front of it it just increases the believability Factory and I think it has something to do with my habits of people if you stand by the coffee machine at work when people want you to believe what they’re saying else the conversation would

be like well you know how it only rains on weekends and well you know how the traffic is terrible on the m62 and well you know how they don’t pay us enough and well you know how we fight traffic to get here and then they expect

just work on top of that you know people just naturally put well you know how in front of stuff and when they do people just want to believe it more so that’s an example of the words brilliant a knock that I use similar to that is that

rather than saying hey my product door has this feature this benefit I owe or I always go down the route of hey this customer which I can introduce you to said this this and this and it’s a similar kind of process of your taking away the

fact that the salesperson is telling you something and now it’s all that why would this customer say this if it wasn’t true and again as you look to them they just accept it Ivan no I’ve had it done to me probably not even purposefully

not in a manipulation standpoint but just from a anecdotal standpoint and I’ve always resonated with that and moving forward I always use that when I speak to customers and I find it always works better than my opinion on

things which they always take with a grain of salt and they should do if you’re trying to sell them something I guess now people are rushed and they’re making constant decisions when we talk so if we say everybody knows the back of

their mind says well if everybody knows that it must be true as long as whatever you stay next is reasonable we can just get on with it we don’t have to look through a whole bunch of testimonials or research reports because everybody

knows whatever you told them that makes it nice something I wasn’t going to talk about but you’ve you’ve demonstrated it in the conversation so far humor how does humor play into all this because yeah I’m enjoying our

conversation and you’ve caught over a couple of jokes that maybe like laughs laugh out loud on the show so far is is humor something that you can develop is it something that people just have because clearly if you’re a funny person

you’re a person that people want to be around and so it’s going to be easier to have business and just conversations in general humor is a great way of building rapport as all I can say some people tend to have better tendencies of doing

it than others I’ve seen people that the chances of developing humor are pretty pretty slim it’s just not in their skill set and they have different skill set so I tell people laughter gonna develop humor I guess you could probably go on

watch stand-up comedy on YouTube for a while but it’s just something that people have like some people just have this charismatic personality and I don’t so you just use your best benefits that you have or your best gifts that you

have naturally but humor is yeah it gives you an advantage sure good stuff well Tom I’ve got a couple of questions ask everyone that comes on the show first one is who do you think is the world’s greatest salesperson I think probably

politicians do a pretty good job they say give me money for your votes and I’m not allowed to give you anything in return that that’s a big sales job okay next one what and go deeper on this rather than there making customers happy

or making other people happy that kind of thing what motivates you to close deals what motivates you to work day to day you just have to enjoy it I tell people if you wake up Saturday morning this weekend and you’re thinking about

work that means you didn’t work all week you just have fun doing it so if you enjoy the profession you’re in it’s not work at all it’s what you do on we can retire when you’re on holidays you just enjoy it so if you can find a career that

you enjoy then you never have to work a day in your life and for salespeople some kind of drudgery and a job and others find it the most fun thing they do and they do it 24 hours a day seven days a week nice that’s a different angle

than what about on the show when I’ve asked that question before and I think there is a weird split between and I don’t know what the percentages are but there’s people who just love sales and there’s a lot of people and that we

people listen to the show that fell into sales forever reason I clearly make great money from it you perhaps don’t need massive koala facials to get started you just need the the will and the drive to hustle and to succeed in it and so I

think there is a lot of miserable salespeople and I’ve talked about this before in that I think a lot of people not necessarily sin to this but because you’d have to person to seek out a sales podcast it wants to get better at it and so

they’re probably dedicated to the career but there’s a lot of other salespeople that they probably shouldn’t be doing it and they’d be much happier as you alluded to then doing something else even if they made less money that would

offset the the global happiness that are going to experience but massively yeah a lot of people are desperately accountants or engineers and ad sales people absolutely good stuff well Tom I’ve got one final question for you it’s a

man ask everyone that comes on the show if you could go back in time and speak to your younger self what be the one piece of advice you’d give him to help him become better at sales probably to read more books in the beginning

we don’t get a very broad sense of this business but I think you read more books you find more in different voices you’re going to find which voices you and if you can find your own voice in sales then it’s fun but if you’re trying to do

stiff sales presentations from other people’s voices that’s not not fun at all so when you can become natural with your own voice by reading some books or listening to podcasts like this hey you’re going to find maybe a way that’s perfect

for you so that’s in my and let’s type that very briefly in that when you say find your own voice you are using the use of them at being authentic and being you or are you saying reading of books and so you almost find a mentor in one

of them and that someone has the same voice as you and that you you understand the resonate with them and then you can learn from replicating what they’ve done well some people their voices with humor other people their voices

all facts and presentations other people it’s about wine and dining and a long long piece of entertainment I think people are going to find their voice their particular way of doing the business that’s within their comfort zone that

they say hey this is me this is the way I like to do business and once you do that well you’re going to be comfortable with how you do it whether the prospect is finite they might have to adjust but if we can find a way that’s really good

for us hey that’s awesome yeah that goes back to the previous point Salman will wrap up with this in the loads of different opportunities within sales it’s the whole beauty of it if you had and as you eluded this event if your example

it says people who were very good at this if your thing is wining and dining talk to people on the Golf Course perhaps you should be selling big complex corporate c-suite sales if your talents and skills lie in the analytical side of things

then maybe you should be selling edge new products or whatever is again it’s it’s worth if you’re in sales having the having the the nuts to just go and experiment and to take that leap into a different industry and that’s really

important and that’s how you’re going to get the best fit and with that Tom always sells and the audience a little bit more about where we can find out about you your books anything that you’re doing as well well the book you alluded

to earlier when we’re visiting how to create the trust reports probably the book that they enjoy the most out of all my books and that just has little micro phrases that people can use to get people to believe them and trust them quicker

and my philosophy is if you don’t have rapport it’s pretty hard to recover the sale if you have rapport at least you can go forward so hand rapport is probably the first step that we cepa’s salespeople because we’re going to the deal or

the offer to quick so that would be the book I’d recommend Tom will link certain show notes over at salesman read and with that genuinely thank you for your time today mate and thanks for joining us on the salesman podcast

thanks for inviting me and there we have it thank you Tom for coming on the show I appreciate your insight sir thank you sales nation as always for tuning in and massively appreciate your time if you are not subscribed and you

listen to this on iTunes or you’re watching this on YouTube make sure you hit those subscribe buttons so we get delivered to you daily and you don’t have to even think about it it just pops up in your inbox on your phone or on

YouTube and with all that set up overdue speak your again tomorrow you

John Wesley Gaddis

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My primary job is a truck driver for Waste Management. My part time job is helping people earn an extra paycheck a month at home. Check out our free coaching.

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