Flan Interview by Ewen LE MOAL
Flan is a talented game creator, artist based in NYC. Today we will talk about experimental games, their critically acclaimed game “Titanic II”, and other stuff. Enjoy !
Itch.io : https://flan.itch.io
Tumblr : https://flans-shape-garden.tumblr.com
What games are you playing right now ? Do you have any favorite games ? Some recommendations ?
Like many are right now, I’m playing Tears of the Kingdom. I’ve also been playing through a PS1 game called Planet Laika, that one is really nuts, I recommend it. Aside from that, just trying out things I come across on itch.io.
Some games that have inspired me as a creator are Oikospiel, Promesa, Memory Card, Noby Noby Boy, and Cosmo D’s work.
If you want some recommendations on games that came out recently, try Queer Man Peering Into a Rock Pool, and Time Bandit. Queer man Peering into a Rock Pool makes great use of glitch in a way that is deeper than just for the aesthetic, and is a really sweet story.
Time Bandit is … a real time Sokoban puzzle Metal Gear life sim… it’s hard to describe, but if you play the first bit of it you’ll understand.
Titanic II, unlike a lot of collages, feels raw, sometimes even un-subtle (it’s of course not a bad thing). This approach to creation can be seen on some of your other games (Putty : The Movie, Terminal 69…). What are your inspirations about that specific way of doing collages ?
I think it’s really something that just came from going on models-resource.com and feeling like I had discovered an endless buffet of great stuff. The first time I used it was in a game jam with Big Bag, where we used assets from there to create Terminal 64.
It makes sense to use those assets to cut time in a jam context, but even outside of that there’s something just so appealing about being able to sift through this catalogue of wonderful 3D models and pick out the ones that are just right for what you’re doing.
I hadn’t played Oikospeil until I was midway through making Titanic II, and had already finished Terminal 64. When I did play, I really loved it, and seeing a bunch of the stuff that I was doing working so well in Oikospiel made me feel more emboldened to keep going down that road.
In previous projects like Museum of the Saved Image, I was also sort of doing collage, but instead of assets from existing games, I was using pictures, text, and various bits and pieces of my real (digital) life.
How would you describe Big Bag ? Do you think the other members of Big Bag have the same view on videogames as you ? How did you make games together ?
I think we do share an approach to games, what that approach is I’m not 100% sure, but we flocked together because of it. We were all in school at the NYU Game Center, and I think we just noticed each other because of what we were making and wanted to collaborate.
As a group we can be very silly, and we sometimes have a tension between our silly and our serious sides. You can see that seriousness in our solo work (Selfless, Despelote, Onto Maiziland Unto Infinity, Butterflowers).
When we come together to do a game jam, we sort of can’t contain the silliness, I think because we are just good at making each other laugh. We often want to tell a serious story but we can’t help being silly.
Making Terminal 64 was a big moment for us and for me I think, because we started off being silly but, without discussing it, pieced together something with a tone that in my opinion balances humor and a deep emotional core.
Right after that is when I started making Titanic II. I wanted to capture that tone again in my own work.
With DK Bathtime, we step in the field of games developed for unusual controllers (The Wii Remote use movement detection, and is not as usual as a classic controller). How did the idea stick out ? What was your role on this game ?
This game was a collaboration with some Babycastles people, Karl Hohn and JP Bruneau, and some sound artists and musicians, Josie Brechner and Toby Do.
It was made to be played at the Babycastles New Year’s Eve party at the end of 2019/start of 2020, and then travel to MAGfest. So, we knew we wanted to make a game for an in-person & event context, hence the physicality of it and the props that go into the setup (the kiddie pool and shower brush).
I think JP suggested the idea of using a Wii-remote since he’d figured out how to get Unity to register the input from one.
As far as the rest, it’s kind of hazy how it all came together, it happened pretty fast over a few brainstorm sessions riffing off of each other’s ideas, which is also how I usually end up working with Big Bag. What starts as a funny image turns into a game.
My role on this was in helping come up with the game design concept and creating the assets + visuals (most importantly, Donkey Kong).
It’s so much fun to show a game like this in an event setting, we ran a tournament for it and everything.
We can feel, in your whole game dev / artist career a recurring presence of Nintendo mascots. What do they mean for you ?
Going back to the earlier question on why I use the collage style, I think it just started with finding a treasure trove of assets more than it was about invoking specific characters or even Nintendo.
But during the process, the characters do make their presence felt. With Terminal 64, which centered Mario, after working on it for a bit suddenly we saw a story about a fallen hero forming. When you use characters with their own backgrounds and associations, those things will find their way into what you’re making.
It feels sort of similar to the way we use symbols in divination. If you know what the archetypes of the astrological signs are, or what each tarot card is, you can create stories and messages from their recombining.
If Mario is the archetypal hero, then we don’t need extra scenes to establish to you that he is a hero, we can just through him into a tragedy and you already understand it’s a fallen hero story.
What I don’t really set out to do is play to nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake. But knowing that we have these characters embedded in our subconscious and they might reappear in our dreams or thoughts to stand in for various things is interesting.
Last but importantly, it’s funny. And humor is important to me.
Do you think experimental games are a step forward for the medium ? Why ?
For sure! I love experimental work in any medium. I don’t think that experimental games are a new thing, you can probably find experimentation as far back as games go. But I am really pleased that these games seem to be stepping more into the light now.
I do enjoy and appreciate “traditional” games too though (just look back at what I said I’m playing right now). I don’t see the two as being in competition.
I guess it’s natural that as games as a whole become mainstream, experimental games would get a chance to share more of the spotlight. I hope that this continues, and that people who play games can also broaden their expectations for what a game should deliver.
I also don’t mind if some of these experiences aren’t considered “games.” I know some creators feel that calling experimental games “experiences” or “interactive software” is exclusionary, but honestly, I’m just in this to make interesting things. If the “games” label no longer makes sense, then that’s ok. It wouldn’t change the fact that these things are still share their DNA with games.
It’s even possible that separating from the “games” label would allow these types of experiences to better find the audiences want them, rather than trying to appeal to gamers who have certain expectations, and could carve out a new space where they could thrive.
Any other pieces of media that inspires you ? Music, movies, paintings ?
There’s so much… I really love 2001: A Space Odyssey. It’s a very big inspiration for Titanic II. I really wanted to achieve its pacing. It’s so gradual in the way it builds up to its moments. So intentional while being so and letting you stew in it.
2001 also found its way into the lighting, sound, spatial design. Long hallways, inky blackness, alien sounding audio, encounters with a higher intelligence, sterile spaces that feel familiar and unfamiliar at the same time, voice chatter audio when there are no people present, the list goes on. And structurally, both Titanic II and 2001 are divided into chapters with different moods.
This may not be shocking, but I’m also a fan of David Lynch. Someone online recently wrote about how Titanic II has “dream logic,” which I think is something you find in a lot of the things I’m inspired by. Some other favorites include the manga series + animated short film Cat Soup, and I just recently got exposed to it, but I fell in love with Cremaster Cycle.
Thanks Flan for your time !
