KitchenKnifeForums: A Boulevard of Broken BST
For several years, if asked what online forum represented the largest, most authoritative resource on kitchen knives, there was some debate between Reddit’s r/chefknives and KitchenKnifeForums (KKF). Since July 2023, the latter reigns supreme.
Perhaps my favorite quote about KKF comes from the user DrEriksson:
On KKF you can buy second-hand knives at retail price. The only knives that are sold are the sellers’ favorite knives, and the edges are always original.
Anybody who spends long enough on the Buy/Sell/Trade subforum (usually shortened to BST) is aware of the duplicity Dr. Eriksson describes. Seemingly nobody doubts the truthfulness of any claim made on BST. No, that knife has never left the box — a real miracle, given how much they brag about using it on Instagram. Yes, the knife is in excellent condition — unless, of course, you happen to see a massive warp in it when it arrives, in which case that definitely happened during shipping.
Quietly, just about every veteran knife nerd admits that BST’s greatest use is for clearing disappointments and developing their taste in knives without shouldering as much risk
Why is BST so notoriously bad?
Simply put, KKF has always had financial conflicts of interest — BST is the most heavily trafficked subforum on the site by a long shot and the users drawn to it are a significant source of their funding.
- The way KKF makes money is through forum sponsorships (professional craftspeople and vendors) and premium memberships (everybody else). Alienating those financial backers would result in an intolerable loss of income for KKF. Criticisms against current or future sponsors could impact their bottom line.
- The sentiment at the heart of KKF favors sellers over buyers. Furthermore, established cliques have few compunctions about deceiving newcomers in order to secure favorable selling conditions. This policy is never spoken outright, but several forum rules make it apparent: (1) no critical remarks are allowed about knives in a BST thread and (2) KKF washes its hands of backroom dealing in PayPal Friends & Family payments categorizations to avoid buyer protections.
- Any comment that a seller may be deceitful or artificially inflating a knife’s price is required by KKF rules to be posted in a thread outside BST. Since many such abuses are difficult to prove or are detectable only after-the-fact, most knowledgeable buyers stay quiet, leaving naïve newcomers to pay the price. The sole allowance of positive comments on BST posts allows friend groups to hype up one another’s knives to the point of lunacy.
- The situation has gotten so bad that it’s developed a shorthand in BST: GLWS, or “good luck with sale”. This is coded sarcasm for a knife that should never reasonably sell given the assumed condition/price.
A short historical overview of BST abuse
The DIY Toyama Saga — KKF user ma_sha1 made major waves with various modification projects to other knives. After one especially ill-advised project saw a Shigefusa cut open using a table saw, ma_sha1 returned shortly thereafter with a grander symptom of psychosis.
Starting with a damascus blank of unreported origin, the so-called “DIY Toyama” was born. Some called it irresponsible and others called it a blatant attempt at cheap profit. Critics, however, were less kind.
Matters came to a head after ma_sha1 listed the abomination for sale as a Toyama “project” without clarifying that the knife was, in fact, not a Toyama. The original BST sale thread is now gone, but moderators left it up for days before finally shutting it down. ma_sha1 was never banned for these antics; the account was active as recently as early 2023.
In fact, the only bans issued by KKF site admins were to those who protested the deceitful BST sale, among them industry professionals and veteran experts.
The Tansu Honyaki — A 2023 sale of a secondhand Mert Tansu honyaki gyuto made splashes after the buyer received the knife. The original sale thread (again, deleted in the aftermath) used a mix of Tansu’s original product photos with poor quality cell phone snapshots that hid the current condition.
Tansu himself detailed the restoration process on Instagram, showing especially the extensive damage and how much the blade had differed from its represented state. Again, the original seller never had action taken against their account for their duplicity.
The Not-so-New-ham — perhaps the most recent case of bald-face lying saw the KKF user Tekkz purchase a secondhand Newham gyuto. The seller’s description of condition was short and to the point: very little use almost new. I have never sharpened.
An astonishing claim, considering the user had elsewhere shown usage over months in a commercial kitchen and even sent the blade back to the maker after removing a significant amount of height due to gross negligence while sharpening with a powered belt. An interesting interpretation of very little use, almost new. Though “never sharpened” sounds fair given that the only thing he managed to do to the edge was destroy it.
Credit to the administrators of KKF here — after Tekkz gathered evidence including corroborating evidence from other makers — the seller was banned.
The “retiring chef” scheme — this one has too many instances for me to list, but every few months it seems to crop up. A new user joins KKF, claims to be an industry professional retiring, and offers to sell their arsenal at a discount.
Of course, when the prices are inevitably posted, it turns out that these knives are not discounted at all. Instead, dime-a-dozen Kurosakis and Nenox are being posted for 10% over MSRP — and of course, the chef refuses to take PayPal Goods & Services payments.
What can KKF do to fix its BST?
I’ve been harsh on KKF’s seller-centric culture in this piece. While it’s true that there are serious issues with the forum’s BST, I’d like to end by suggesting that the administrators are clearly bothered by these abuses and would like them to end.
Allow me to suggest several key changes that could accomplish this.
1. Allow critical comments in BST threads.
This rule change would prevent friends and conspirators from hyping up bad knives; it furthermore provides potential warning for otherwise naïve buyers who may not recognize red flags themselves.
2. Prosecute flipping, market manipulation, and deception more seriously.
It’s all too common to see KKF users post glowing reviews of a knife, add it to the “knife finds” megathread, and do all manner of public marketing before conveniently — and of course spontaneously — deciding to sell that knife at a markup.
KKF must also reconcile its legacy of hype marketing with regard to historic and current vendors. One former sponsor perpetuated the myth of Togo Reigo steel largely to sell more knives at a higher price. A currently listed sponsor hypes up their own personal knives before listing them as BNIB on their site. KKF administrators owe users more transparency of such practices.
3. Actively protect newcomers through G&S and prosecuting sellers who solicit against buyer protections.
One common pushback I hear against these criticisms is “yeah, but c’mon this seller has a horrible reputation” or “everybody knows that BNIB has a flexible meaning.” Tacitly accepting these facts is a self-perpetuating legacy. It’s also admitting hostility against any newcomer.
While KKF need not require specific platform payments such as PayPal, they should change their BST rules to require sellers to accept good and services (G&S) type payments. Sellers who discourage G&S or actively solicit for F&F payments should be at risk of having their accounts banned or restricted from ever selling again on the site.
Correction Nov 22, 2023 1:01PM — the final point of this article implies KKF does not require G&S type payments. This is incorrect, caused by a misreading of BST and PayPal Rules:
The full text of the original rule is found in Guidelines for B/S/T and is as follows:
Price is to be determined using the “Goods and Services” Paypal (or other) option. Sellers are forbidden to request, or require, “Personal Payments” (aka “Gift” or “Friends and Family” option) for items being sold.
