Interview with a Woman in Technology
In the field of technology, there is a big gender gap for women. Women in technology may face difficulties including insufficient job training, biased interview process, wage difference, or even harassment. It is truly inspiring to see leaders in the industry such as Li Fei Fei (Director of the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Lab and the Stanford Vision Lab) and Susan Wojcicki (the CEO of YouTube) to act as role models for young girls. Through the help of a mutual friend, I am honored to get to know a woman in technology in Hong Kong, Justine Leung, who is so kind and generous to agree to have a phone interview with me.
Introduction of interviewee:
Justine Leung has over 10 years of experience in the field of technology. She has been working in this field since graduating from the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology for a BBA degree in Information System.
Can you tell us a bit of your work?
I started work at a digital agency company as a junior programmer, then senior programmer and analyst programmer. My first company required some managing work as well, such as leading a junior. It was rather challenging as I only just joined the company. I did not know how to lead him to do the work. Then I worked in a system integration company and I had to design a rewarding system for a local bank in Hong Kong, targeting mobile users. I was in charge of projects and I had to lead 2–3 teammates, which was quite stressful. Therefore I decided to take a holiday for a few months, during which I reevaluated my decision to be in this field as I was stressed out. Afterwards, I worked in another digital agency company which has a smaller company size, I like my colleagues there because they are very friendly and I enjoyed my work experience very much. My boss trusted me a lot and gave me a lot of opportunities including a chance to build a cloud-based platform solution, which I found very satisfying. I led two junior programmers during this work with more experience.
What drew you to the field of technology in the first place?
When I was in secondary school, I thought computer lessons were very interesting. I found the satisfaction of creating something which is unique and innovative very rewarding. During computer studies lessons, the teacher was teaching us (the programming language) Pascal, where she encouraged me a lot. She also gave us a lot of chances to join inter-school competitions, and this gave me so many memorable experiences.
What did you do to prepare or pave your way into this industry?
I chose Information Systems as my major in college, because at that time I thought a business major alone is not sufficient for me to understand knowledge of technical fields. I know such knowledge will be useful when I come out to society in the future. That includes programing, data base, system design etc. When I was in college, I also did one year of internship, where I became certain that I am capable of taking this as my profession. If I was not sure, I would not choose this career path.
Were there any difficulties, as a woman, to get in such a male-dominated field?
It was difficult because of the heavy workload and I often have to work overnight. Some girls may not choose this job because of this reason. Also there aren’t many female peers at the workplace where I could share my problems with…especially for girls we have a tendency to hang out together. At that time, most of my friends were working at business sectors, and they had leisure time to party. While in the IT industry, the guys prefer working independently and rarely have any interactions while at work. It may take some time to break the ice and get to know them, but it is still different from girl peers.
Are there any particular moments that make you feel rewarding or inspired while working in technology?
There was one time when I worked for a local E-shop, I had to finish the website within a really tight schedule. I worked with my teammates for half a month. I left the office very late every night, so it almost feels like we were fighting for a war. After the “war”, the company ordered a cake for the celebration of the launching of their E-shop. At first I was wondering if it was anyone’s birthday, but it turned out that my colleagues were giving me a surprise — — it was a gift from our client. I was so touched.
Why is that you think there are less girls in the field of technology?
I think there are quite a few reasons. First of all, there is the problem with workload. Girls may find the long working hours too overwhelming and they don’t want to wear themselves out. Also there aren’t many female peers in the workplace, but girls like to communicate with each other and hang out together so this is definitely not an attractive job for them. On the other hand, there are difficulties when it comes to learning technology…this is surely another reason. It is because for technical things, it’s not something people can teach easily, it requires you to really understand it yourself, so you have to face the difficulties and challenges yourself. You cannot rely on other people. Other people may give you guidance and directions but you have to solve it yourself. Girls may be intimidated by this. But I think if there is more support and caring mentors and supervisors to encourage girls, they can definitely do well. My supervisor at that time trusted that I was competent so he did not interfere my work too much and simply delegate the work to me. It is more independent. Girls might feel lonely, like me sometimes as I want someone to give me some advice. A lot of times I have to try on my own. But once you break through this difficulty, you feel more confident and can face the challenge yourself.
What do you think can be done to encourage more women into this industry?
I think internship and mentorship programs can help us spot out talent, so we can encourage more girls. Even upon graduation, the mentor can support them along their career path. This can be done around the time they are in university or when they come out to work. As for internships, I did one during Year 2 of college and I think it is a great way to discover your passion for programming under a stress-free environment. In my opinion, short-term internships can boost confidence. I studied in a girls’ school, speaking from experience, I think during high school, most students who are about to face public exams mostly care about getting the grades for university, and less so on their interests. Therefore, targeting students who are not yet involved in the exam curriculum is more advisable. There are also coding workshops out there, these can help young girls discover their interests in programming, and they may find plain and long scripts and codes less intimidating.
How do you feel about the trend that increasing number of women are entering this field?
It is a good sign. I know there are some technology groups for girls in society right now, these groups can give us more support. We can be more motivated at work. Generally speaking, girls can be better problem solvers in a way because we emphasize more on sharing knowledge and communication. When facing a problem that we had already struck with it for a while, for boys generally, it seems difficulty to seek help from others. While for girls, it seems more comfortable to seek help, we will ask other teammates and probably they know how to solve a problem, or have they experienced similar problems. That saves us a lot of time to struggle individually. Especially during projects where we are required to work as a team, if the teammates are more proactive, the overall working atmosphere would be better.
What advice can you give to young girls aspiring to get in this field?
I think they have to bear in mind that in this field, they are going to have to learn something new every year. Keep learning about different kinds of knowledge, such as art…does not necessarily have to be related to IT. This helps you a lot with designing products for the client, because you can know what they want, and ultimately IT is used for humans, so you need to know what their mindset is. For example if you are designing a product for tourists, you have to know how they think in order to create the best solution. I think it is also important to be open-minded when you work and accepting towards different types of people. Some outsiders think some of the guys who are good at IT are very strange or quirky, but they are actually very nice people once you get to know them, they just don’t know how to express themselves sometimes. As a supervisor, I think it’s important to find different ways to guide the junior, especially if they are female, because normally, male supervisors are hands off. Providing more guidance and feedbacks for female subordinates continuously can really encourage them.
Do you think in the near future, the imbalance of male to female ratio of people working in technology can be improved?
I think for technical work, there are more guys working on that area because it requires more independence. But IT has different areas such as business analyst or project manager, the ratio of women taking such positions is sometimes more than men…so if you take the average, the male to female ratio is about the same. Because there are more people doing testing or marketing of the solution, these are also part of IT. On top of that, the younger generation of male working in IT nowadays are more respectful towards women, probably because they are taught to have manners in school, people used to say the workplace was not very pleasant and the people might be impolite. But I’d say it is improving now in a sense that it is more equal and harmonious.
After a thorough discussion with Justine, I do think the future for women in technology will be brighter. Women who work in the IT field has proved to contribute immensely. Through education on gender equality, the workplace environment has is more harmonious. Also there are organizations that help with promotion, such as AnitaB.org. This interview has certainly enlightened me.
References:
https://ghc.anitab.org/ghc-17-livestream/
https://www.theguardian.com/careers/2017/jul/17/women-working-tech-sector-discrimination