How To Become An Online Game Changer

Mike Wrobel, the National Manager of Learning Services for Royal LePage Canada, joined me in my studio to discuss how to improve communication and leadership skills in the real estate world and beyond. I coached him on how to get started, all the way to creating your own unique podcast. We elaborate on the potential of the value you can provide and how immeasurably beneficial it can be.
Mike: Do you still see a lot of potential in the internet now?
Jas: The internet is pretty young actually. It’s only 25 years old and I think the internet is going to be giving us a lot more in terms of the ability to grow businesses and people just finding out what their niche is. There’s so much more room to grow, especially in places where you or anybody else hasn’t even thought of yet.
Mike: Where do you start in terms of producing content?
Jas: You can start wherever you want or can. You can work off of your phone or you can use high-tech equipment. It also depends on what your desired audience is. Do you want rapid-fire or produced content, or both? When I started the podcast we had one cheap microphone and no cameras. I wanted to get big name guests, so as we got more familiar we splurged on high-quality sound equipment and cameras.
Mike: As a content creator, what’s the most important thing to you about producing content?
Jas: Well, it’s that I enjoy doing it. It really comes through if you have a passion for it. I love doing this: meeting new people, interviewing them, helping guide people to be at the top of their game. This is what I want to do most in the world, and I think that really comes through to my audience. I’m so happy to have all of the subscribers and listeners, but even if it was down to one person enjoying it, I would still be doing this.
Mike: What were the major changes you took in digital marketing?
Jas: I think just major changes were just getting started and figuring out what was going to be the medium that I was most comfortable with. So essentially being self-aware. At the beginning, I was not comfortable with all the cameras. I think we have like four or five cameras running right now, we have lights and webcam mics. We have two mixers. I was definitely not comfortable with all of this at the start. I don’t even actually own a laptop or a desktop. So for the last year and a half to two years I’ve done everything from my phone. I mean this is my computer. I have support staff that help me, but I do everything from my phone. I’ve been in real estate 15 years, sales and service for 25 years, and my whole life within those years I was very comfortable on the phone. I discovered podcasts a couple years back and I just thought that medium makes sense for me because there are no cameras and I don’t have to write anything. I could just speak.
Mike: For those considering starting a podcast, what do you suggest?
Jas: Some of you are probably thinking, “I would love to do audio or video but I might stutter or I can’t get my words out.” That was me. I do have somewhat of a mild stutter at times because thoughts are moving in my head so quickly I can have difficulty articulating them. So I thought that might be a problem. It took me about two weeks to understand that at the end of the day no one really cares about that, they have more important stuff going on in their world. And then it was just a matter of getting out there, making the commitment and consistently doing an episode every week. And so I said I’ve got to come up with an episode once a week. I don’t care if it’s 15 minutes or an hour and 15 minutes, but I’m going to put something out to the world. And at that time it was all real estate related for the first 14–15 episodes. My executive producer said it was starting to get a little mundane speaking about the importance of a home inspection. I trusted her opinion, and I branched out to my other passions, leadership and entrepreneurship. When we got more broad and pushed out more and more content, that’s when we started to build our audience.
Mike: What do you say to people who are too scared to jump into this?
Jas: I would say remove the friction. My mission really is removing friction in people’s lives, going from where they are to where they want to go. There’s always something that’s holding us back. It all comes down to fear, even when we’re talking to real estate investors. Many of them think: “Oh my God, I’m not going to get a tenant or they’re going to ruin the place and all this.” So that’s what we’re gonna remove. Decipher whatever is giving you that mindset and realize that you can actually do what you want to.
Mike: You have quite a large media support staff, how did you acquire this staff? How did you know you were hiring the right people?
Jas: You can use Kijiji, Facebook, Instagram and Craigslist to find them. I first started off with a videographer and graphic designer. They all started as interns. We put postings up on Indeed.com. They were initially unpaid. I know you can’t do an unpaid internship now but at that time you could. This is not taking advantage of them working for free, you need to provide them value. I had the confidence that of my 25 years in sales and service, and the 15 years in real estate that I would bring some value to them. This was not going to be them working 50 hours a week, we started off small. The first two interns that I brought on board worked 8 hours a week. I didn’t need them that much because I wasn’t producing that much content at the time. My copywriter was an unpaid intern when he started as well. He works full time now and gets paid because he brought value. But when we started it was about helping him get his writing out there and assisting in building his portfolio to help him further his career, also through giving him a great reference. I hire real quick. In fact, I don’t read resumes because I just don’t believe them because anybody can make things up. My graphic designer, Stephen, I asked him: “Do you know how to do these two or three things?” His answer was yes, so that would’ve made my life a whole lot easier. What happened with him though, as he got more comfortable, the creative started to come out more in him. He doesn’t really ask for direction. He knows he has the ability to do what he needs to do. So I give them the autonomy to do all that. I hire really quickly and when they are hired I have a sit down and say, “Let’s try this out for a couple of months because you might hate me by the time we’re done with this, and if you do that’s okay. Or I might not just jive with you. So let’s test it out and if it works well we’ll move to the next step.” I find that exciting, it’s actually also how I deal with clients.
Mike: Do you have a lot of people reaching out to you?
Jas: We get a lot of that. The key is to engage. Contact them at their convenience and give them value. Reach out to them in the method that is convenient to them. Make it as easy as possible and make it worth their while as much as possible. Find out where their attention is and give them the attention there. They shouldn’t have to search for it. If they consume on Tik Tok, use that as one of your avenues. If it’s Facebook or Twitter use that. Do all the above if they’re there.
Mike: Do you still use traditional marketing?
Jas: Email marketing has done very well for us. We’ve run the numbers and we get a large sample size in terms of clicks. I do whatever I can to extend my reach.
Mike: A large part of your business must be producing content in the real estate sector.
Jas: For sure. We produce content and put it up quickly. It’s important to put it up quickly and consistently to maintain strong accessibility.
Mike: Since your producing so much content online, negativity must be a factor you deal with. How do you cope with it?
Jas: I just don’t let it bother me. I shut out all of the negative noise. I actually find it funny. I had a podcast with Ryan Serhant and someone commented about me being creepy. I just laughed. I really appreciate any engagement, it means people are listening and spending the time with us.
Mike: How long did it take you to develop your branding?
Jas: Branding is a word I want to take out of our vocabulary. To me, it’s all about your reputation. Can people trust it? That’s what I want most. Early on I understood what I wanted us to provide, and created the content required until we developed that reputation with our community.
Mike: If someone wants to start a podcast, what do you say to them?
Jas: Start as soon as possible. The sooner you start, the easier it is to get into that rhythm. Everyone has a phone, so you have the equipment necessary to start. You can utilize any syndication software, like Lybsin or Anchor. Start off simple, so when you get into the habit of it, it will become that much easier. When you get into it more, then you can get better equipment with a stronger production. The beauty of it is you can talk about whatever topic you want, no matter how broad or niche; there is a market for it. Don’t necessarily worry about how long the show is. If the conversation is flowing and providing value, keep it going. When you start to run out of steam, that’s when you lose your audience and should pull back. I would advise reading the comments. This is a good way to get feedback and great for reverse-engineering what your audience wants from you. Don’t worry about the little details, you’ll figure it out on the way. All those “umms and “aahs” don’t matter and no one actually cares if you stutter; it’s never a big deal.
Mike: You’ve had some high profile guests on your show, how did you get them?
Jas: Getting good equipment is definitely beneficial. If they see that you take your production seriously they will be more inclined to be on your show. It’s also important to reach out consistently. It helps if you’re a little shameless. I send out so many emails. A lot of these people are so busy and don’t have time to read everything they get, so I put my ask in the subject line so they have a higher chance of seeing it.
Mike: For anyone who wants to get into the real estate business or just get a better idea of the market, what do you suggest?
Jas: Podcasts for sure. They are so easy to consume and you can do that anywhere. It’s the vast majority of content that I enjoy from an entertainment and educational perspective. There is so much someone who is brand-new or seasoned in the industry can learn from a podcast.
Mike: How do you find your audience?
Jas: I just kept producing content and my audience found me. If you provide value and your genuine coupled with consistency, your audience will find you.
Mike: I’ve noticed that you have a bunch of small segmented content in different formats, tell me about that.
Jas: I’m a firm believer in micro content. I chop up my podcast or blog posts and I put them all over my social channels. It’s a good way of getting my material to more eyes in ways that’s easier for non-podcast fans to consume. I can turn a bigger post into 25–30 more pieces, getting more eyes on it and spreading out the value even further. I squeeze out every little drop that I can.
Mike: Would you suggest that everyone do a podcast?
Jas: I think people should do what they’re comfortable with. This way you will create your strongest content. If you like to write, create a blog. If graphic design is your specialty, create captivating images. Your passion will come through if that is what you truly enjoy. I would advise people expand into other mediums though. If you’re not comfortable doing it, find someone who is. Partner up with people who have the same vision you do, this way you can produce so much more content and create even more value to your audience.
