“It is like looking at stats and saying most drug-takers are from lower class backgrounds when it…
Svetlana Voreskova

It may indeed be true that a lot of people from wealthy backgrounds take drugs too; but they are far less likely to deal in them. They are also far less likely to become involved in gang related crime which accounts for more than 80% of murders and shootings in the USA.

This is based on what? Cerainly not all the people who do these things who do NOT get caught and so are NOT in the statistical records? You (or your interpretation of the stats) are taking absence of evidence as positive evidence that something does not happen. This is like saying you know that the pipes upstairs are not leaking because no water is coming through the ceiling — the owner of the flat upstairs might have very logically put in some remedial means of keeping the water coming through to you… in which case your conclusion is wholly incorrect.

People from wealthier backgrounds are much less likely to end up in prison because they are much less likely to commit serious crimes.

Again you seem to be assuming that an accurate measure of who commits crimes is the stats of convicted criminals. What about all the crime that goes undetected? Neither you nor I can answer that, but as I said to another poster, the wealthy have far more means of committing crime and avoiding being counted as a criminal. There are obviously no stats for these things and that is why you should not let the existing stats do your thinking.

That is not racism. That is a reality.

I don’t know about racism, but it’s not reality at all. It’s stats based on what is observed. The outer planets of our solar system all existed long before they were observed. It is stupid to imagine that stats reflect reality when we can only see part of reality and can actually reason how and why other directly related parts of reality are hidden from view.

Studiously ignoring this fact (on the part of groups like BLM) is racism.

Studiously ignoring anything is stupid. But I repeat, stats — especially the ones you have quoted here — present a skewed view of reality.

… the question is why does [a black baby] become statistically more likely to [commit murder] as it grows up. Of course all the evidence suggests it is about poverty and broken families.

For a large part this makes sense… but it is not the full story. When someone wants to kill someone a rich person can find a poor person desperate for the cash and willing to do the deed, whereas the poor man cannot hire the rich man. So although this does not actually contradict your argument, it makes an important distinction which actually covers all sorts of nefarious social acts: registered crime is not the same as social evil.

BTW: if you want to argue with Amber that is obviously fine by me. And involve me by all means. But I don’t find it clever to negatively reference third parties behind their back… just saying.

“Whites commit far more crime than Asians but far less than blacks” etc. etc.

Please see my answer to Shachar Haad on this.

Albeit I do not actually believe that racism is the prime cause of a lot of the shit we are all discussing, it arguably lurks — maybe unrecognised — behind some of your comments. Again, refer to my post to Shachar Haad

Just to fire out stats which are framed by race makes no sense unless one of two things applies:

1 — The person believes race is indeed the cause of what the stats reflect — which most would say qualifies them them as a racist.

2 — The person does not believe race is the cause, and therefore logically must find some other explanation.

I appreciate that as regards point 2 you have made arguments based on identity politics and wealth discrepancies as causes. But if that is where you are coming from, what are your suggestions about how such things are to be tackled? I personally believe many people hold on to identity politics because they have no better framework in order to ‘explain’ matters. So if you believe in these non-racist explanations of Western society, how do you suggest they are addressed? Particularly I am asking about wealth inequality, as identity politics is obviously just a set of ideas.

It seems to many that society will remain messed up unless some of the glaring discrepancies of wealth are cleared up. Is this your view?

That is what all movements and ideologies do: They find a bogeyman to blame everything on so that they do not have to go down the much harder road of self-examination. Far easier just to find someone else to blame and spend the rest of your life being angry and resentful at them.

I agree.

One clap, two clap, three clap, forty?

By clapping more or less, you can signal to us which stories really stand out.