01: The difference between success and wisdom with Ryan Blair

“It’s not where you start, it’s how you adopt tools and values in order to get where you want to go.” — Ryan Blair

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How many of us were running a company at age 23? Not many!

But my guest on this week’s podcast, Ryan Blair, was. Still under fourty, Ryan has already authored two books and a documentary, been Ernst and Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year, and is currently the CEO of ViSalus Sciences.

Ryan’s here to share his experience traveling through all of these projects to get to where he is now, and offering advice to new entrepreneurs.

Ryan’s getting into his story of starting out with little, but finding some strong mentors to help him get his business and his life in order. We’re talking about how to surround yourself with the right people to keep you motivated when you’re down, and to keep your ego in check when you’re doing well.

Ryan’s also digging into his regrets, what he might have done differently, but more importantly, what he’s learned from past experiences and wants you to know also. There’s some great advice in this episode, so get your pens ready to take notes!

Even for those of you have already read both of Ryan’s books, this is an insightful conversation that will make you think about your personal and business timeline, your priorities, and the people you go to for advice.

“You’re going to have ups and downs because you need those things to strengthen you and to wizen you.” — Ryan Blair

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  • Ryan Blair, co-founder and CEO of ViSalus Sciences. He was Ernst & Young’s 2012 Entrepreneur of the Year, and is the author of New York Times bestseller ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain,’ and the documentary of the same name, as well as of a new book, ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’.
  • Find a mentor, someone to support and teach you in your business. As your plans change and work evolves, look for mentors in the direction you want to go.
  • The key to having professional success, even when your personal life isn’t going as smoothly as you might hope, is to compartmentalize. Focus on work at work, on home at home, etc.
  • Show up in person, when it’s possible. Go meet with clients and mentors and investors in person. Face to face communication can build a personal rapport and stronger connection.
  • When things aren’t going how you planned with your business, find an analogy. You might need to let go of one of your goals and pivot, but find a business that is doing something yours could be, and use that to get to your objective.
  • Figure out what the purpose of your company is, not just the product. Once you know why you’re selling what you are, or what it means to you and to your customers, you are better able to orient your product and yourself.
  • Don’t believe your own hype. Be real with yourself, and know that even if you’re on a winning streak right now, eventually it will run out. Plan for a rainy day.
  • Think about the unintended consequences of your actions. Think strategically about the people around you, and how what you’re doing will affect them, intentionally or not.
  • The only way to not believe your own hype and to keep your ego in check is to surround yourself with good people and strong mentors. Have people in your life who will hold to discipline in business and will ask you lots of questions about your decisions.
  • Ask more questions. Do less talking and ask more questions of everyone. Instead of congratulating people on their successes, ask them how they’ve accomplished what they have, and wait for specific answers.
  • Pay attention to your timeline. Use your down time really well, and when you’re making big business decisions, think about where you want to be in the next 10, 20 years.

Advice to entrepreneurs:

  1. Focus on message. Make sure it’s duplicable and memorable.
  2. Test your messaging. Test different messages against each other to see which gets the desired results.
  3. The Path is All Math.


http://www.ryanblair.com/ntl/ (Nothing to Lose)

www.rockbottomtorockstar.com (This is the link he says to go to for his new book but it just reroutes to his home page)

http://www.vi.com/ (ViSalus)

http://www.strengthsfinder.com/home.aspx (Strengths Finder)



Kim Orlesky: Thank you so much for joining us again today. My guest today is Ryan Blair, co-founder and CEO of ViSalus Sciences. Also known for its Body by Vi. He is Ernst & Young’s 2012 Entrepreneur of the Year. He’s also the author of New York Times bestseller ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything o Gain,’ and the documentary of the same name. His newest book, available today, is ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star,’ and available right now for purchase. We’re going to talk to Ryan about some of his wonderful advice he wants to give to entrepreneurs, as well as some of his failures, what he’s learned from them. Thank you so much for Ryan joining us today.

Ryan Blair: Thank you very much, Kim. Thanks for having me, it’s an honor.

Kim Orlesky: Well, thank you. I want to talk to you a little bit about your newest book. What are readers going to learn from this one versus from ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain?’

Ryan Blair: Yeah. Well, just for your readers to understand is–I fashion myself as a writer. I know that there’s a lot of business books out there. My first written document that actually created quite a success for me was a letter that I wrote to a judge. I was asking him for leniency and he told me I should be writing in college, not in prison. So ever since then, I’ve been a writer. And I take the art very seriously. It’s my passion. I use my writing to write business plans, to write agendas, to write goals, to write everything. Most importantly though, is to write books because it’s a way of articulating perhaps what I did right, what I did wrong. It’s a way for me to get clarity and kind of what I need to do next.

So ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain’ dropped off in 2010. Now since 2010, not only did ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain’ become a #1 New York Times bestseller, it became an international bestseller published in many, many countries and many languages. And I received a lot of feedback from my readers, and they wanted specifics about exactly how I did it, exactly how I think so they can do it, too. I guess the short story would be ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain’ was how I did it. ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’ is how you can do it, too. And the subtitle from ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’ is ‘Lessons from the Business School of Hard Knocks.’

I ended up getting into a business school after dropping out of high school and going to a community college. I went to a private university, and I learned a lot there. But the things that I learned–running businesses, doing transactions, selling my company for $792M, buying it back for $148M, and all the things in between, those are the lessons that they will learn. But they won’t only learn exactly how to do those things, they’ll learn how to bootstrap their business, they’ll learn how to set up the right culture, the right values, and all the various things that I’ve learned along the way as well.

Kim Orlesky: Well, that sounds wonderful. Now I know from ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain,’ you were motivated a lot by your history growing up as a–I don’t want to say it for lack of a better term, but as this rough kid. I mean, did the people in your life influence you to change and to become the person that you are today?

Ryan Blair: Yeah. So I’m a product and [inaudible], and one of the things that I talk about in ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star,’ is how to find a mentor and how my mentor has since helped shape me. Just for the audience to–if you haven’t read ‘Nothing to Lose, Everything to Gain’–for the audience to understand–I lost my father at 13 years old, and my family disintegrated. My mother became an alcoholic and I became a ward of the court, which meant I was a foster kid. I was in and out of juvenile hall, I was arrested 10 times. One of my sisters is still on the Most Wanted list in the county I grew up in. She’s heavily involved in gangs. My brothers–one brother went to prison for armed robbery, another did 6 years. My family was set up to be professional criminals.

I shared that story with my readers not because I want to glorify it by any means, but I want to show it’s not where you start. Because a lot of us start from a place perhaps of lesser means or poverty or a bad set of emotional traumas. It’s not where you start, it’s how you adopt tools and you adopt values and you adopt belief systems in order to get to where you want to go. So I’m passionate about that because I’m simply a product of–I’m spiritual. I’m a product of having been tested with a lot of adversities that were–and many times self-imposed, meaning no excuses. Some of these things I did myself, and I take responsibility. But in other times for example, like The Great Recession that almost wiped out my business, ViSalus.

I didn’t have much control over that, I didn’t have participation in it. And I write about exactly how to get through those types of times. And then secondarily on it, after I wrote ‘Nothing to Lose’ and I submitted my manuscript, I had some personal tragedies hit my life. My stepfather passed away who was my first mentor and the person who, in essence, taught me the fundamentals of being an entrepreneur that leads with values, with work ethic, and has principles around doing business with others–that’s Nothing to Lose. But in ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star,’ after writing ‘Nothing to Lose,’ and it becoming a phenomenal success, I also learned my young son had autism. I struggled with that. My relationship with my son’s mother broke up, and that was a big challenge. And then my mother fell down a flight of stairs, had a traumatic brain injury, and was in a coma for 2 years. So I write about how I processed that, how I compartmentalized it, and then how I was still able to have success and be able to manage all these personal adversities and still power through them and have success.

A lot of times, I find that entrepreneurs or people perhaps that are your listeners, many things stop them in their tracks of the pursuit of their goals. And I figured out a way to not let that happen to me. So ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’ is going to be that advice and that prescriptive and that action plan for other people facing adversity. Now some of you listeners might not be, but we’re all soon to face adversity in some way or another, and we need to have the tools to get through it.

Kim Orlesky: Absolutely. I was actually going to mention about the adversity portion of that because you do see a lot of entrepreneurs that experience failure, right? They experience a moment where things just aren’t going their way, and they start to give up. Especially when it comes to businesses and everything. I know one of your histories is–I mean, you went from going from computer repair all the way to broadband Internet, and then to this consumable health product. I mean, what happened in each one of those? How did that transition your entire career?

Ryan Blair: Yeah. One thing I want to tell you guys is I’m a strategic thinker. I do this thing called Strength Finders. I’m in no way of [inaudible] with your organization. I’m just passionate about understanding your strengths. And one of my strengths is strategic thinking. So when I, for example, at 24/7 Technology–it was a 24-hour day computer repair service–I’ve always been pretty good at marketing. Our slogan was, “If your computers are wrecked, call 800–247-TECH.” I was in college. This was at a time when computers were breaking down every single day, and people were having the blue screen of death. If your readers are as old as I am then they can recall it, right?

Kim Orlesky: I remember those, yes.

Ryan Blair: And I would have a pager sitting next to my desk, and it would ring and I would get up at any hour of the night, I go fix a computer. Then I realized that that model was unscalable. It was in the age. I was blessed to had computer science courses and skills. During the age of the Internet–the first Internet, I should say–so this is ’96 timeframe, going on 20 years ago. But during my 24/7 Tech work, I got commissioned by the United States Navy to do an evaluation on commercial broadband wireless availability because they wanted to use it at a local base for ship to shore communications because it was cheaper than helicopters and some of the other ways that they were transmitting data. When I saw the opportunity to create a commercial product that the navy needed, I then bought SkyPipeline, I bought it for $15,000 out of Santa Barbara. And then 2 years’ time, I built it to a $25M exit.

I did so because I found mentors. The way I found mentors at SkyPipeline, and believe it or not, is at that time, broadband wireless was not ubiquitous as it is today, and those mentors were big-time venture capitalists that lived in various neighborhoods in Santa Barbara county, and they needed my product. Everytime someone would call and ask for it, I would research who they were, and I would show up personally to try to get that meeting with the person when I made the install. As a result, I got a guy named Fred Warren who was the founder of Brentwood Associates, a billionaire venture capitalist. Russ Bik, the founder of Sun Microsystems. And a variety of other real, real professional people that were venture capitalists, big-time individuals in the business world. And I asked them to mentor me.

Eventually, they invested in me and then they taught me what I know about structuring business deals and exiting and so forth. The last thing I’ll tell you that when I sold SkyPipeline, I sold it for–I think I was 24, and it was a $25M deal. For round numbers, for hypothetical example, the venture capitalists made $24M to $25M, and I acted like I made all $24M. So I immediately went broke spending that million bucks that I had. After taxes, it wasn’t even that amount. The next thing you know, I’m having to start all over again. As a result to the work, though, that I did at SkyPipeline, I met three entrepreneurs. One named Rich Pala, one named Nick Sarnicola, and the other named Blake Mallen. They presented to me an idea. There was a science-driven product called ViSalus built by a doctor named Dr. Michael Seidman.

I thought to myself–and this is one of the things that I teach in my books and other writings is you have to find an analogy. So if your business isn’t exactly going well or you’re not doing well at it or not loving it, all the things that you’ve learned in it need to be applied to something else to get you there. So you don’t give up on the business, you don’t give up on what you’ve learned, you don’t give up on your people. You might give up on the scalability of the model or the fulfillment of you working directly with your clients–so you need to find an analogy business, or in other terms, it might be a pivot where you can use all that learning and all those assets to something that is going to get you to your objective whether that be lifestyle, fulfillment, or that be billions of dollars or so forth.

It’s a technique that I [inaudible], and I’ll tell you real simply. I’m looking at outside my house in the Hollywood Hills. One of my old SkyPipeline towers, as we speak–and at SkyPipeline, we sent zeroes and ones through the air–that’s how data’s communicated, through the air. And at ViSalus, nutrients into the cell. So for example, one of our products sends nutrients into the mitochondria of the cell. So I thought to myself, “Well, if I can harness God’s airwaves to send zeroes and ones, I can harness the body to send nutrients into the cell.” So I thought as a very similar business model in terms of that product in science.

And then on the capital side of it, I thought to myself, “Well, if an average SkyPipeline customer was paying me $100 a month, and an average ViSalus customer’s paying me $100 a month, well my sales model might slightly different but my capital model was much more advantageous for ViSalus than say for SkyPipeline where I had to deploy assets and so forth. So I just basically thought everything is one and the same, and then once I took that standpoint, then I started working on the unique differentiations of the business models.

Kim Orlesky: I mean, from an outside looking in, right, I mean, to think about going from broadband internet and data transmission all the way to consumable products, I mean, that would seem from an outsider a completely different talk truck and a completely different approach in how you would communicate the value. Did you find that or did you find that once you were able to communicate value, it was just about changing the product of the service?

Ryan Blair: Well, the value of proposition of those two products are unique. But the value of proposition to me, and this is what’s important so I’ll give you a story I don’t think I’ve told. I was at a SkyPipeline Christmas dinner for my staff, and one of my staff members–and [inaudible] we had about 20 employees. Let’s say maybe there’s 40 people there including spouses and kids. One of the staff members brings his son to me and says, “This is daddy’s boss.” And I don’t like being called the boss, but that’s what he said. At this time, I was like 23 years old. I had braces, right. I didn’t even have a child at the time. And I remember sitting there and saying to myself, “Wow. The work that I do puts food on the table for this family.”

And then secondarily, I thought to myself, “At SkyPipeline, how many businesses are being more efficient right now? How many non-profits are able to serve more of their constituents or their donors or their benefiters?” So I took an intangible concept like saying broadband wireless, and I created deep purpose and meaning to it–I’m an indirect basis–but when ViSalus came to me, I saw a direct purpose. Like I could help affect people’s health. An in ViSalus’ case for example, in every day, we get [inaudible] of people that say, “I lost 70 lbs,” or, “I was able to get on the transplant list because I was able to lose the weight necessary for me to get onto [inaudible].” “I fit my wedding dress. Thank you for helping me have the most beautiful day and the most beautiful pictures of the most important day of my life.”

So now I’m a very purpose-driven and mission-driven entrepreneur, but I guess the thing is is I realized at SkyPipeline, there was a deeper meaning behind the work that I did, at ViSalus, I got to see that deep meaning firsthand everyday with every customer and every testimony. That’s when I really became hooked on purpose-driven and cause-driven marketing and cause-driven activities and purpose-driven in a mission-driven companies.

Kim Orlesky: I mean, you come across–there’s so much success with everything that you’ve done, and I imagine like this wasn’t an easy path, right? I mean, it wasn’t a complete overnight success. There must have been a few failures in the process. From your experience, I mean, what would have been your biggest failure, and what did you learn from it to help drive you to where you are today?

Ryan Blair: Yeah. Oh gosh, biggest failure. One thing is I choose to [inaudible] transparent as a–it’s a value system of mind. The reason why is because the way I was raised, my dad was a liar, everybody was a liar around me. And so I said, “You know what? I’m going to be transparent. I’m just going to put the good and the bad and the ugly.” In fact, in ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’–I say, you got to show your thorns, using that rose as a metaphor. You got to show your thorns. In ‘Nothing to Lose,’ I wrote a chapter called “Million Dollar Mistakes,” which is in 2010, a million dollar mistake was a big amount. In ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star,’ I talked about $100M mistakes. Now that’s measuring them on failures that’s on a monetary basis, but I can tell you that I’ve had a lot of failures.

The biggest one that I ever had as an entrepreneur was after I sold SkyPipeline, I blew all my money and I went bankrupt. That was a very, very traumatic event for me because I was ashamed of myself. I felt guilty, I felt stupid, irrational. I felt public humiliation. I hated that, and that was a big failure. Outside of that personal failure, I failed to keep my relationship together with my son’s mother which I still–obviously, I’ve reconciled that that wasn’t supposed to work but that was a really difficult failure. And just as a leader, there’re times where I failed to be the leader that I was capable of. As a result of that, good people left my company or good people got left down. So when you’re a young leader rising through the ranks, you’ll learn a lot about yourself.

I guess I failed because perhaps I had insecurities that I hadn’t quite adjusted or didn’t quite become aware of in time that I’ve been working on ever since. Perhaps I failed because of the ego in many occasions. In ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star,’ I said, “Don’t believe your own hype.” That’s one of the things that–I started believing my own hype, I sold my company for $792 million. The fastest going company in all the SEC. I was the 5th highest paid person under 40 in all public companies. Next thing you know, I’m winning trophies and awards, and I’m thinking, “This is just going to compound forever.
 The truth is, what I’ve learned is when you’re on a run–and I’ve been on a few runs, meaning, to use that baseball analogy, a hitting streak. A betting analogy, you just keep getting that blackjack time after time after time. Eventually, the run is going to–you’re not going to be on a hitting streak forever and see you got to prepare for a rainy day and you got to prepare for a downtime.

So I’ve learned a lot. In fact, I talk a lot about looking at your career timeline and then asking yourself how many more years you got, and then what steps are you going to take to get there. So I guess I could tell you all day long about my failures because I write more about them than my success because I think people will learn more about me, engage in a deeper relationship with me. And I think I can teach more from that perspective than just telling you, “Hey, I’m rich and I’m successful. Look at all my nice toys.”

Kim Orlesky: Yeah, absolutely. I know even from my personal experience, I know people would love to hear about the failures because it kind of makes you more of a human. It gives you that sense of humility and this humbleness. I know you mentioned a lot about being the young rising star, right, and your ego kind of gets in the way a little bit. How were you able to kind of pull yourself back now or is there a reminder that you have?

Ryan Blair: Yeah. It’s funny, I hear my language changing. I think the first step is to declare you got a problem and understand it. Now my technique in doing that is writing. As I write something, I’m like, “Do I really want to print this? Why did this mistake happen? What was it, really?” So step #1 is declare you got a problem and take responsibility for it, right? A lot of people just, in this day and age, they don’t take responsibility for their place in life. Step #2 would be get some accountability partners. I used a 360 feedback system. I have people in my life that–in fact, I have a mentor that I’ve hired that’s been more of a spiritual mentor, I should say. We talk a lot when I go spend time with him. I spend about an hour a week with him, and I say, “I make it a decision here, and what do you think that is?” He’ll help me think about it.

Then the last thing I want to talk about on this subject, and I’ve become a recent–like this is my newest word or my newest expression that I’ve been driving home is “unintended consequences.” People don’t realize that their actions may have unintended consequences. You have to think through strategically, all of those unintended consequences are perhaps alienating your audience or not giving a person the time they deserve when they’ve asked for it or not caring enough. And so your ego basically creates all these unintended consequences everywhere around you so you want to reduce those unintended consequences as much as possible.

So you got to figure out how to check that, especially when all of a sudden, I got–I went from 9M sales to 624M sales. $120M in cash in a single year. When that happens, you start to believe your own hype. And that’s not going to happen forever unless you really check your ego, you have a great team around you, and you have a discipline in building your business–which we did not. And so now [inaudible] were instilling those values and making sure that we’re not making the same mistakes twice.

Kim Orlesky: Absolutely, which actually is a great segue into my next question which is what kind of piece of advice would you give your younger self? I know you are quite young. You’re 36 years old, so for–

Ryan Blair: I’m 39 now. I’m 39 now.

Kim Orlesky: 39? Oh, let me keep calling you 36. But incredibly young, right? But I mean, what piece of advice would you give to your younger self about kind of getting to the success or wherever you are?

Ryan Blair: I love this question because–one thing I just [inaudible] to listen is these are great questions. One of the things that your listeners should realize is you need to ask a lot of great questions. You need to think of your life about in the terms of what questions are you asking of whom. And so one, I would give my younger self the advice of ask more questions, right. Ask more questions. Do less talking and ask more questions, right. Ask more questions to your mentors, ask more questions of your employees, ask more questions. Like one simple question that I now ask my potential candidates that come work for my business as employee team or I ask my potential mentors is, “How did you do it?” Like for example, if Dan Gilbert, a mentor of mine, he owns Cleveland Cavaliers and Quicken Loans–when I see him next, I’m going to say, “How did you win the championship?” And I’m going to keep asking how until he tells me the specifics because all too often, it would be like, “Hey, congratulations on winning the championship.”

That doesn’t teach me anything, and that doesn’t give him the opportunity to share much other than thanks back. So ask great questions and become a master to asking great questions. The secondary thing I would say to my younger self, outside of how to structure my day around the questions I ask him and my meetings around that would be pay attention to your timeline. This is something that I write about in ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’ is, I look at my career now over 20 years, and it might look like to you having gone from poverty to wealth, like it was a rocket ship. But there was a lot of downtime. Down once, in some cases, down years. It looks much more like a heart monitor, so to speak, than it does look like a hockey stick because you’re going to have ups and downs because you need those things to strengthen you and to wisen you, to put you in position to ultimately achieve what you’re supposed to achieve on this planet, in my opinion.

So looking back over 20 years, I would not have made a lot of the same short-term decisions that I made back then. Because those decisions, I didn’t realize that’s going to be–I didn’t think to myself, “Well, I’ll be doing this until I’m 40 so why sell my company, right?” I sold my company in 2008 which [inaudible] Math, it was a massive success. But I bought it back. Now in retrospect, I wish I’d never sold it in the first place. I wish I’d just continued building it and had a company that I didn’t have to buy back and do a turnaround and go through the turmoil and all the stuff that I went through. But I sold it because I wanted to make a couple million bucks when I sold it. I eventually sold it, and my earnout made hundreds of millions, but I sold it because I didn’t realize that I was guaranteed to a millionaire, luck was going to be my multiplayer though, right?

So if you put in the hard work over 20 years or 10 years or whatever the number is–Malcom Gladwell has this thesis of 10,000 hours, for example. If you put in your 10,000 hours, you’re going to become a professional entrepreneur. I put in tens of thousands of hours, and I plan to put in tens of thousands more. Just as a pure product of that and the value system of surrounding yourself with great team members and giving credit to the team, I know by the time I’m 50, I’ll have way more than I have now and I’ll be able to give away more than I have now. So I guess the answer is pay attention to your timeline and think not only in terms of how long you’d been at the game, but how long you’re committed to it. For me, that’s still my last working day where I have all–my last ability to actually type an e-mail or conduct a meeting. And I plan for that to be in my ’80s. So looking at that time horizon, what I’m doing today is just the beginning.

Kim Orlesky: Wow. I love your comment earlier about asking more questions. Because we talk a lot with the entrepreneurs that are listening on here, being that genuine interest in your client and understanding them fully, becoming this friend’s relationship. For all the other entrepreneurs listening, what other piece of advice would you give them about when it comes to selling their product or their service?

Ryan Blair: I would say the advice that I would get to the other entrepreneurs would be 1, focus on the message. Make sure that it’s duplicatable and rememorable. Right now, everybody’s being targeted a million times over. So one of the things, there’s nothing to lose, everything to gain–I titled my book that. I did feel because I knew that it was a sentiment in America, and I wanted to meet people where they were at. I also knew that there was a lot of songs that reference [inaudible]. So I would create anchors all over the place. I also had an experience with people and a mindset of having nothing to lose. So there’s a real purpose to how I named the book, how I named the product, the Body-By-Vi Challenge came as a result of Dale Brown challenging me and me seeing that that message was social, it was fun to talk about, and it revolutionized the industry and I signed up 3M+ customers, ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star,’ titling and messaging, and so forth.

Once again, duplicatable. So my goal is for people not only to remember the message but to duplicate it–that’s on the marketing side. I’m going to give you a simple formula, and this is on the sales and marketing. I’ve used this in every class I’ve ever taught on the subject, and I teach at universities on occasion and so forth, or give speeches at corporations. My formula’s simple. It is exposure, which is your awareness, your PR, your advertising–whatever it is that you’re doing. Exposure, right? Time’s your conversion, which is your percentage of conversion. Say for example, an email campaign that might be 2%, but in a one-on-one meeting, that might be 85%, depending on the process [inaudible] equals your result.

If you’re having a sales problem, you need to either fix your awareness or your exposure or you need to fix your conversion or you need to fix both. You need to continue dialing in on both those knobs until you get to your result. It’s a mathematical formula. So you got to use AB testing methods on both, and when I say AB, I mean test this message, test that message. Today, you can buy a $1,000 Facebook ad to test the message and determine whether or not it gets the clicks and the type of clicks that demographics are receiving. On the result side, you can AB test your product pricing and product packaging and whatever you’re selling, or your services, until you actually see which package has the best results for the target demographic. So there’s more tools now than ever.

You got to learn those tools, you got to master them. And then the most important thing–and I say there’s nothing to lose–and this is a mantra on my team for the variety company [inaudible] I’m a part of–is the path is all Math. So you got to figure out the math.

Kim Orlesky: Yeah. Oh, wonderful. I’m a huge, huge Math proponent so I love that. Thank you so much, Ryan. If people want to learn more about you, what’s the best way of them to get in touch?

Ryan Blair: Go to rockbottomtorockstar.com. I really appreciate it. I want everyone to know here. I give the proceeds of my books to charity. The more books that you’re able to buy, the more I’m able to give back. And I’d love for you to see the results. We’re really going to help a lot of people. Get out of those rock bottom moments, we’re going to recognize a lot of people that aren’t getting the recognition that they deserve. So if you go to rockbottomtorockstar, I’d appreciate you joining my pre-sale offer. You can buy it on Amazon or everywhere books are sold.

At least if you do buy my book and you ride in and you find some value in it, send it to me. There’s an email address within it. I love seeing the stories, I love hearing your business plans. I have a venture fund that I just launched called #1 where we made some big investments in companies like Elite Daily and [inaudible] and a variety of others that are doing great. So I’d love to see ideas and perhaps participate with your audience in any way I possibly can. So I thank you for your time today, Kim, it’s been a pleasure.

Kim Orlesky: Thank you so much, Ryan. Everybody go out, go buy ‘Rock Bottom to Rock Star’ by my guest today, Ryan Blair. Thank you.


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