Interesting how all the replies adhere to the classic (and only) feminist retort to every situation…

Parap I don’t need to read feminist theory I am bombarded with it every day from women and the media. Clearly simply calling societies “Paternalistic” is saying “it is all the fault of the penis” and while you may claim that is not the message, on your very best day you simply mean “ok it isn’t ALL the fault of the penis”.

“Paternalistic Society” itself is just a bit of propoganda whose better days have been seen; if a society could in fact be called that it would have to be a) outside the norm or b) in contrast to another prevalent societal structure. However it is not, and, other than a few exception-proves-the-rule societies you can remember from your gender studies course, almost every human civilization form/ed/s the same way. If we were bombed into the stone age they would again.

Just because you write off female participation as “even if they ARE in many cases supported by [women]” and ascribe the ills as being the provenance of men doesn’t give the argument any weight. I’ve said to you in other threads “Own it All” and I’m damn sure you don’t discuss things like The Constitution, Western Civilization, Planes, Trains and Automobiles by writing off women’s contributions similarly (“even if there WERE mothers and wives and grandmothers supporting the Bill of Rights”).

If mothers and wives and sisters and girlfriends and women we don’t even know expect us to protect them on demand, then you bet that the root of the problem is not “the penis”.

As I’ve said to you in other threads; if you want to claim ownership of it all, then own it all; this means the root of circumcision, violence, war and even rape is not “men”; it is mankind i.e humankind, i.e. men and women.

BTW men don’t speak out about their circumcision, they don’t speak out about and march about their prostate cancer, they don’t speak out about being scared to walk home at night, they don’t speak out against being objectified (I’m sorry, successified), they don’t speak out about the pressures of the OBLIGATION to work and the fact that unlike women it is not a right but the sole determination of both their standard of living and their ability and access to sex, love, marriage and children, they don’t point out that they never “had it all” that they just worked 80 hours a week (and not as CEOs or POTUS, jut backbreaking soul-killing work) to support families and/or were enslaved and sent to kill and die, they just do it. It is deceitful to pretend that speaking out should be the motivation to include men in your objection to circumcision. Men don’t stand around watching women get raped and say “heck if they complained we would have done something”. Please, tell me something that you actually blame the vagina for because I sure the list is small if not empty and, if not, has asterisks all over the place that says “See Men”.

I am not an anti-feminist, I was actually, if the term could be applied, a feminist, having grown up with sisters and a strong mother and mostly female women and was a knee-jerk supporter of all female causes big and small. Over the years I’ve become discouraged by what I first thought was myopia and have come to see as being endemic chauvinism that dwarfs anything I’ve ever experience from or as a man. Just because you get to use words like “Paternalism” to make it sound like science doesn’t change that a whit.

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