Muse and Metrics S5 EP 12 — Dedicated to Learn with Joy Agbo [Guest Bio, Summary, Audio and Transcript]

Guest Bio

Joy Agbo is an enterprising Back-End Software Developer with a focus on Node.js and a talent for copywriting. She hails from Nigeria, where she balances her tech career with freelance writing endeavors. Joy’s journey into the tech world began in earnest after her national service in Nigeria, where, despite holding a degree in Psychology, she faced the common post-graduate challenge of finding a job. This period of uncertainty, however, paved the way for her to discover her passion for technology.

Driven by curiosity and a desire for continuous learning, Joy self-initiated her foray into the tech industry. Her tenacity paid off when she was accepted into the prestigious Women Techsters Fellowship, a program dedicated to bridging the gender gap in technology. Through this fellowship, she honed her skills in Node.js, Express.js, and database management with MySQL and MongoDB, alongside developing robust RESTful APIs and server-side scripting.

In tandem with her development work, Joy has cultivated a successful freelance copywriting career, showcasing her versatility and commitment to effective communication. Her writing proficiency has earned her a notable reputation on platforms like Upwork, where she has been recognized for creating impactful content that enhances online visibility and engagement.

As a Women Techmakers Ambassador, Joy extends her influence by mentoring and advocating for women in tech, emphasizing the importance of inclusion, diversity, and empowerment in the industry. Her dedication to this cause is evident in her volunteer work with organizations like the Atlassian Community Lagos and Google Developer Group (GDG) Lafia.

Joy’s educational background in Psychology adds a unique perspective to her technical prowess, allowing her to approach problem-solving with a holistic understanding of human behavior and cognitive processes. Her journey from psychology to tech exemplifies her adaptability and eagerness to embrace new challenges, making her a valuable asset to any team seeking innovative backend solutions with a human-centered approach. Joy is actively seeking opportunities that align with her skills and passions, ready to contribute to and grow with a forward-thinking organization.

Summary

Key Highlights:

1. Transition from Psychology to Tech:

• Joy Agbo’s journey into tech began after completing her National Youth Service in Nigeria, a period marked by difficulty in finding a job with her psychology degree.
• Her exploration into tech started with self-learning JavaScript through mobile apps and progressed with various online resources.

2. Women Techsters Fellowship and Becoming a Techmaker Ambassador:

• Joy’s tech journey was significantly shaped by the Women Techsters Fellowship, which she joined after overcoming initial rejections.
• Her involvement with Women Techmakers as an ambassador started in 2021, emphasizing her dedication to fostering women’s participation in tech.

3. Challenges and Resilience in Tech Learning:

• Faced challenges like inadequate equipment, which she overcame by securing a loan for a new laptop, underscoring her commitment to her tech journey.
• Advocates for continuous learning and applying theoretical knowledge to practical projects in tech.

4. National Youth Service and Community Engagement:

• Reflects on her time in the National Youth Service, emphasizing its role in fostering community engagement and cultural understanding.

5. Empowering Women in Tech:

• Passionate about mentoring and supporting other women entering the tech field, Joy shares her story to inspire and empower.
• Highlights the importance of skill over connections in securing tech opportunities.

6. Personal Growth and Development in Tech:

• Discusses her growth from a non-technical background to becoming proficient in software development.
• Encourages newcomers to tech to start with basics and not be intimidated by the complexity of programming languages.

7. Advocacy for Learning and Building in Tech:

• Emphasizes the importance of building a portfolio and not just learning theoretically.
• Suggests using platforms like Free Code Camp and W3Schools for foundational learning in programming.

Conclusion:

In this episode, Joy Agbo shares her transformative journey from psychology to technology, highlighting the challenges she faced and overcame. As a Women Techmakers Ambassador, she is dedicated to encouraging women’s participation in tech and emphasizes the importance of practical skills and continuous learning. Joy’s story is a powerful example of resilience and adaptability, demonstrating how a non-technical background can evolve into a successful career in tech.

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Transcript

(This is a raw transcript — there may be errors)

00:00:06:11–00:00:16:16
Philippa Burgess
Hello and welcome to Muse and Metrics. This is your host Philippa Burgess. This is season five episode 12 and today’s topic is dedicated to learn.

00:00:16:18–00:00:57:08
Joy Agbo
Hello, my name is so I will. I am a developer and a back end developer on my tech stock with no no. I work with Node and the Express and Express. I am also a woman. The mentor make us ambassador to the government x. Mr. Ambassador, I got in the tech sometimes around 2019. I did late 2019 after my National Youth Service because of activities, no service in Nigeria.

00:00:57:08–00:01:35:12
Joy Agbo
I saw your university. You go for a compulsory national youth service. So after minus nine service, I think I finished it in November. So I came back home. I was looking for a job. I couldn’t find a job. I read psychology at the university. I am a degree psychology, so studied the service. I couldn’t get so, so tired of looking for work to do something out of the Seychelles.

00:01:35:14–00:02:08:20
Joy Agbo
And I wasn’t getting a response. I think from home on Long Island, I came across the country so I just think me. So I like to take on social. Like I read an article on somebody that said that what it was about, what it’s all about. I decided to day. I said that I just left. I left the then 2020 came on.

00:02:08:25–00:02:40:00
Joy Agbo
I was also is waiting for your best in my field of psychology. So I remember traveling for a scholarship. That was in February 15th. I came back from the fellowship and not not for scholarship exam. I immediately I came back from that exam that that was in the COVID 19 pandemic through Stop it. But that was the period, the the lockdown that was locked down.

00:02:40:00–00:03:06:23
Joy Agbo
The just I think you like it, but not for long. They said everywhere Nigeria, this lockdown, no going now go back home everything. So I was but he was like I felt somehow that I was not really happy being asked to stay at home. Why not not doing anything? So then I think that was like, is this place for me?

00:03:06:23–00:03:30:27
Joy Agbo
I was only then, so I was thinking of breaking up. So I decided to. Okay, let me let me said the state in the ABC interview. Everybody’s talking about it. So then I just picked interest. I said, okay, first of all, I downloaded an app on my phone. So I was I think the first language I saw was Devil Script.

00:03:30:27–00:03:52:21
Joy Agbo
I was like, let me check JavaScript. What’s so swift? Let me check. I was checking it, I was looking shaky. And then all of a sudden I’m like, I was filming. So I think he saw on my head that what is this in Nigeria system that can be this one to do? Had you know, well what’s this?

00:03:52:24–00:04:23:25
Joy Agbo
I was not understanding what I was doing. It was somehow I felt so I couldn’t understand. I wasn’t getting anything. I was just like, okay, I will just leave this thing. I forgot about it. I left that. I left it. I left. So I kept of searching for a job because I must work, I have to pay. So I then in 2021, I think basically what would be my interest if you like.

00:04:23:28–00:04:53:23
Joy Agbo
Yeah, in life that I dedicated my time. I came across a nonprofit organization that’s the Women Access Fellowship in 2021. I think some around much. I saw an advert on Twitter from them, so they were like, The program is just all about women and trying to bridge the gap, the gender gap in the tech space and all that.

00:04:53:29–00:05:19:27
Joy Agbo
So I decided to apply. That was in 2021 and this is what I applied. I didn’t get it. When I got it. I felt somehow I felt bad. I was like, I felt bad at first, but I, I just left and I decided to look for other opportunities. I think I came across an opportunity also. I signed off.

00:05:19:29–00:05:44:05
Joy Agbo
I started learning Urdu. Then I was already learning on free could come. That was I was learning history and I had to go back again. I did some research. Then I came. I heard that I learned that you have to, you know, start from the beginning. Estamos Yes. So I said to start is still male. And this then I was using a very, very terrible computer.

00:05:44:06–00:06:07:12
Joy Agbo
My, my PC was just to dig it up. I didn’t know anything about it. I really didn’t know what the specification I needed. I was just, I was just like, this tech tactic is it? It does God do it? I didn’t know that there are certain criterias you have to meet. There are some things you have to your your system has to be a certain spec.

00:06:07:15–00:06:35:21
Joy Agbo
So I was using it to grab a laptop and it was terrible. It’s also terrible. I was doing that. I was afraid. I know that program, that’s a program decided Google was big enough and I was doing it. I was doing well, but I later discovered that it was not it was not really big enough. And like they said, so I couldn’t complete the program.

00:06:35:28–00:06:57:14
Joy Agbo
I had to drop out and above do. Another reason why I had to drop out. My laptop was so bad. Like terrible. Very, very, very bad. I had to drop out. My laptop got spoiled and fix this. It’s white again. I don’t know what to do anymore. I didn’t know what to do anymore, so I just left laptop.

00:06:57:17–00:07:26:19
Joy Agbo
I left an electric. That’s for you. I just took anything that has to do with tech left take. I was searching for job, actually, so I. I later signed up for a writing course. I took a copywriting course. So I decided to start writing. Do I love writing? I used to write when I was in secondary school, even when I was in the universities to write the do not professional.

00:07:26:23–00:08:02:06
Joy Agbo
I was just writing for fun. And then I decided. So I decided to continue writing. So I signed up for the writing course and I finished the course. I signed up on o’clock o’clock as a freelance platform. So I got I signed up, I got a gig, I was writing for a and a blog. Then this year I didn’t officially launch again in the tech space to see it again.

00:08:02:08–00:08:32:04
Joy Agbo
So this year, no, no. Last year, sorry that was 2022. Last year, the Women Texas Fellowship. Again, I stick for the tech for the busy social nonprofit organizations. The tech for them puts out another advert for new intakes for the Fellowship, the Women Texas Fellowship. So this time I didn’t. I was more prepared and I applied. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:32:04–00:09:02:29
Joy Agbo
Because our process is not that easy. But I took my time. This time I wrote the application because there are some questions you answer. I took my time, I wrote the application, I, I submitted. Okay. And when the posted your definition, I got an email for them or that I got into the second stage. And the second stage is you make it in like a motivational video.

00:09:03:05–00:09:29:24
Joy Agbo
Or why do you want to get into the Women Texas Fellowship? And I did the video. I did much of this for a video. Then I sent to stay. The sense in message. congratulations. You take your assessment. I took the assessment, although to confess, as I was kind of scared, but I still went ahead. I took the assessment after the assessment.

00:09:29:27–00:10:10:03
Joy Agbo
Then finally I got the commercial. All Congratulations. You’ve got into the Women Texas Fellowship Class of 2023. And I led. I screamed because we had an evacuated interview during the veterans. Have you? I thought maybe I didn’t do very well because I felt I didn’t really give my all during the course of the interview. And so when I got the congratulation knew I was so happy, like my heart was so full of joy because I said, finally, what I have, I’ve always wanted, I’ve gotten it.

00:10:10:03–00:10:34:03
Joy Agbo
I want to go into this next office and I’m going to fix this with women like me because what tech for the what romantics the fellowship stands for is is something I love to stand in for. To bridge the gap is talking about inclusion, diversity, you know, about women, women getting into tech, getting more women, women picked up in years.

00:10:34:06–00:11:06:02
Joy Agbo
You know, they are all about networking, the network mentorship, the training. The training was not easy. It really was for six months, it was a six month training. We had them classes every day, Monday to Friday, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Thank you. All times. I had fellows, fellows in my class from other African countries. I even had a fellow that was joining us from New York then does.

00:11:06:02–00:11:31:26
Joy Agbo
She’s from Ghana, but she was joining us from New York then. And I knew I knew how easy for her the training was, was good outside the training, the technical training that we were taught. We were also giving them the soft skills training, soft skills on how to the workplace, how to navigate the workplace, because this is not only about your technical skills.

00:11:31:26–00:11:57:03
Joy Agbo
Without soft skills, you can stay in the company, you can work with it too, because you need to have social skills to be able to work. And so did my journey to the expected, let me say, officially last year when I joined the Women Texas Fellowship, the journey was not really been easy, but I’m grateful how far I’ve come now.

00:11:57:05–00:12:41:20
Joy Agbo
And although I didn’t go back to front end anymore because I discover I was not really I had I was lonely. Do colorful kind of person. So I think I think more I do so to the has to do more abstract and thinking so I had to go for the back end now so I work as a duck and I, I do back development and for the fellowship and that was much this year I successfully graduated and I successfully graduated the fellowship this year, although, well, we’re going into the fellowship.

00:12:41:20–00:13:16:17
Joy Agbo
We were of 1400 fellows, but graduates, we were 800 plus, then graduated out of 1400. And I’m super excited because I’m one of two that graduated. It wasn’t really easy, you know, six months for most of us. So most of us, it was our first time away from the with fields for a very long time. So the after the fellowship you go for intensive or do have not yet been placed an internship.

00:13:16:17–00:13:58:22
Joy Agbo
I’m also looking for myself. I say the internship. I have been participating in hackathons I have participated in over three or four hackathons. Now I have no one anyway. Yes, I hoped going on soon. And then my journey into the romantic Ambassador program. I came out cosmetics makers, ambassador program from the Romantic Fellowship. Also, we have an alumni group, so it was posted on our alumni group, the record that it’s we should register and you know and you know that’s a good platform.

00:13:58:28–00:14:20:29
Joy Agbo
You know you get to meet you network and you know get learn. And so when I checked so we went to make us ambassador program and I saw what it’s all about I think I love I love what the ambassador’s all about you know trying to bridge the gap just like what’s and the next best fellowship is all about it.

00:14:20:29–00:14:43:18
Joy Agbo
It is the same thing also and I’m super excited. I got into the program, you know, when I went back and I checked what I wrote for the Women that Make US Ambassadors program, I think one of the reason why I got it was my journey. I wrote I wrote my journey, how I got into the tech space.

00:14:43:20–00:15:10:04
Joy Agbo
And I’m someone that is always advocating for women to be independent, for women to be able to have something to do, get into. There’s not you as a woman because it doesn’t mean you should be limited on the text. This is not only for men, because I’ve seen I think I remember there was a time I asked someone to help me out.

00:15:10:06–00:15:51:06
Joy Agbo
He was a guy. He the response I got was not was not something I like and I felt harassed by guys did because I was that soon. Question Instead of you to respond, you were saying something those, you know, kind of attacking. I attacking does it go the way he tried to attack people? I don’t really want to delve into that because it’s something that’s past because at that period, I felt I felt bad because I told my siblings about the legacy I was actually by some things that are going to just affect me what I want, he said.

00:15:51:08–00:16:19:28
Joy Agbo
The first thing I just left that I didn’t put, so stuff like that made me to say no. I was and was. Even if I do know what I am doing, I will continue this stick I was getting and I was doing. I must do it. I was comma and I was helped. And we help other women because comment like Uncle Sam in non-technical background, non-technical background coming into tech and being good at it.

00:16:20:03–00:16:52:19
Joy Agbo
And I’m happy because I that’s last year during the course of the romantic fellowship we then we usually go for a book that was doing The Girl Child. The world went to the Ritual of the Girl Child. So I remember last year we went to three and three facilities, so we went to secondary schools and it said, So we went and we said we took the gospel of tech and sent them.

00:16:52:22–00:17:19:08
Joy Agbo
So we went there and the responses we got was was wonderful. I think I yesterday somebody called my my sister and told her that one of the students that we went to the school that you go to has been disturbing him that all he was that she was then that she should call the quote quote unquote them and that he also wants his wife to join.

00:17:19:10–00:17:39:24
Joy Agbo
And any rag. I always talk about tech. I think since this I’ve been talking about sex because I went to school, I spoke to my friends. I do I have two people that I knew personally. I reached out to me to help them. I helped them. Two of them got into the we this this fellowship, this the class of 10% to four.

00:17:39:27–00:18:05:18
Joy Agbo
I helped I helped the both of them. They got in and they were other women and some alumni. We came together that we were able to get into this this fellowship. Why not help other ladies who have interest to get into the fellowship also? So we spoke to we we puts out a form like a Google form, so that people that wants to join do.

00:18:05:20–00:18:29:10
Joy Agbo
I expressed interest we got over 200 response to this. And so from that 200 responses, we had these criteria. So I like to streamline them. When we streamline them, we can blend them 200. So the hundred we told them to go ahead and apply we to there was a fellowship. We had them in Google meets, meeting with them.

00:18:29:12–00:19:05:15
Joy Agbo
We explained what the fellowship is all about. We told them that, okay, this is what is is this is this is this is how you’re supposed to fill your application form out of all of them. So, you know, not everybody, some applied, some did not like. And when do results and when the time came for the application, when they submitted those that got into the assessments stage, I think we had over 50 got into the assessment stage.

00:19:05:17–00:19:38:21
Joy Agbo
And after the assessments, I think 35 of them got to the Bachelor interview and they just get the admission recently. So out of that that if I think 23 got into the fellowship and that’s the three, that’s for the four, that’s for the group I’m with fellow alumni, is that organized? Does that’s just part of what’s trying to help our community Then since three plus the two I knew personally that I helped No I did.

00:19:38:21–00:19:58:01
Joy Agbo
I have five, I had two. I had a friend, I think most definitely not in two to does. And that’s that’s it. 28. So I think I was able to help it, ladies, to get to take this thing to

00:19:58:03–00:20:27:06
Philippa Burgess
That’s phenomenal And I, I love your story of just kind of keeping even if you need a rest, even if you need a break, just keep coming at it. And sometimes it’s not us, it’s the external things. Like you said, your computer just kind of there were real limitations there that So it’s firing. I love that. And I love how you’ve turned it around and just brought it back to others because I believe these opportunities are so important.

00:20:27:09–00:21:01:24
Philippa Burgess
And and they just they’re they’re literally life changing. Yes. And just Trent, I mean, when we talk about transformation and opportunity and community and all of those things, I’m so excited to hear that. I love that. And and I think that you’re not the only one that I’ve interviewed who’s said my background is in psychology or sociology. I personally studied international relations, and yet at the same time, for me, I always gravitated to tech, but I never defined it as tech.

00:21:01:26–00:21:21:23
Philippa Burgess
I did like, for example, I went to college many, many years ago, decades in fact. And it was the early nineties that I learned about HTML and that I could prop up a website. And at that time, that was the only way you built a website. And it was an I just but I did it because I just naturally gravitated to it.

00:21:21:23–00:21:46:25
Philippa Burgess
I was like, this is really cool and this is how you write it. And same thing with I stayed professionally in digital marketing, digital media, a lot of entertainment, communications media, which is why I have a podcast. It’s so natural to me and I think that giving a voice, giving a platform to other people in tech who don’t have maybe those soft skills as up and as as developed as I do in those areas.

00:21:46:27–00:22:11:01
Philippa Burgess
But I’ve always like learned. Yes, that’s I learned so many things, Drupal and just many things along the way. But nobody ever encouraged me in technology as far outside of the role model that my own parents played. And my dad was a huge tech early adopter and all things, and I kind of have that instinct to be an early adopter and I’m always willing to learn.

00:22:11:03–00:22:37:11
Philippa Burgess
But professionally, I was in the creative arts, I was in the marketing. I was always kind of pushed to administration or marketing departments. Nobody ever said, come into our technical team. And for me, I when I went back to school for graduate school, I actually went back for urban planning and it was the geographic information science, the data science that absolutely I got so excited about.

00:22:37:16–00:23:00:03
Philippa Burgess
And I could see myself relative to my classmates that they just had little interest in learning our studio and Python and GIs. And I was all about it. I was like, Tell me more like, where do I start? Where do I sign up? Where do I learn this? And then I realized there was another program I needed to start in, and that was a geographic information, science and technology.

00:23:00:05–00:23:31:24
Philippa Burgess
And so that’s a whole other world that I’ve discovered of geospatial, which is its own niche. It’s separate of just people who study data analysis, data science. So my goal is to become a spatial data scientist, and with that I extended to a full second master’s, which I’m in right now in human security and geospatial intelligence, because I see a lot of need related to disaster resilience, disaster response and every week we’re seeing things in the news that are, you know, another place that’s been hit by an earthquake, hit by a flood, hit by a firestorm.

00:23:31:26–00:23:51:15
Philippa Burgess
And so that’s kind of the work that I want to do. But when I was just starting in my program, I was getting a like a cert was the very first beginning in what they called this geographic information science and technology. And that’s when I started scanning the horizons because I was like, Now I’m a woman in tech, now I am a woman in STEM.

00:23:51:15–00:24:15:03
Philippa Burgess
I can own this identity. I’m in my forties and I can own this identity that I’ve never been allowed to own before, even though I’ve been in and around doing tech for decades. But this was now my time that I was like, I now have a degree I’m in. And so when I saw the application for women in tech makers and I saw a couple other scholarships and opportunities, I just went for them.

00:24:15:05–00:24:36:02
Philippa Burgess
And like you said, you don’t always get everything joyful about the ones that I did get. But I was also, you know, some things I just but I’ve learned and I think like you did, too, you just kind of keep raising your hand and you invite all these other women and girls to continue to raise their hand, and you had to choose from you narrowed it down to a hundred.

00:24:36:09–00:24:56:05
Philippa Burgess
Not everybody, you know, did what needed to be done, and it got whittled and whittled and ultimately 25 got through. So I think you kind of don’t want people to take it too personally. It’s a process. We all do the best that we can. And so, yeah, this is I am so inspired by your journey and your story.

00:24:56:07–00:25:18:18
Philippa Burgess
So tell me a little bit more about where you see change about the back end and getting really excited about the back end. And I think if you’re anything like me, you learn that tech is a learning journey. There’s so there’s things that you’re doing and then there’s levels that you want to get to to go next. So what do you see on the back end?

00:25:18:18–00:25:45:11
Philippa Burgess
So the thing that’s really exciting for me is like I’m learning databases and I want to learn how to use Google Earth Engine, which I don’t know how to use that. It’s not a software we use in school, but in what I’ve but actually one of my class assignments is to compare the software we use and I’ve chosen Google Earth Engine is kind of comparing it to it and it says that basically Google Earth Engine, you need to use JavaScript to write it.

00:25:45:13–00:26:01:18
Philippa Burgess
So learning JavaScript is not something I know yet, but I’m sure that that will be like the next thing that I need to get into and pick up. So advice do you have for people starting out and or starting out in JavaScript specifically? My personal question.

00:26:03:00–00:26:32:05
Joy Agbo
that was cute. my JavaScript. Every developer would tell you that JavaScript is kind of hard and it’s very broad, though it’s not hard and it’s not that broad. Yes, very broad. I remember during the fellowship where we wanted to do something that has to do with JavaScript. Our facilitator had just paused and he was like, So tell me, what has been your greatest fear?

00:26:32:05–00:27:02:01
Joy Agbo
He says he knows that every developer is kind of scared of JavaScript. Everybody’s in JavaScript is is good. You cannot, you know, you can do it all. And and I remember that I voice that. I’m like, okay, I learned his demo and this is for JavaScript. The things I heard about JavaScript made me scared. So I couldn’t I just instead of just telling our pushback, I would just like, you know, pushback.

00:27:02:03–00:27:29:23
Joy Agbo
And so he he took that fire away from us. He told us that JavaScript is not difficult, is not that we should be scared that JavaScript is a very good language, that in fact almost everything they use JavaScript, almost everything. Now, you know, before it was basically used on the browser, but now it is used you can use it only server side back end, which is what I’m doing.

00:27:29:25–00:27:58:16
Joy Agbo
And so I think if you’re just going in for JavaScript, you’re just putting out those allow other developers, I think, is too broad, is hard. Is this No. First of all, learn the basics. The basics very important. If you know the basics of JavaScript, it’s it would be easy for you knowing the basic is very important because when even if you you start using a framework, you c have no idea.

00:27:58:18–00:28:37:03
Joy Agbo
If you don’t know the basics, you can use a framework like mujeres like, and you can’t use a framework, but you have to know the basics. So if you are just passing out in, in Davos, I advice you learn the basics, know the and that stuff, and then so the that’s a type and a boolean of those that’s a save the lenders basic stuff from the basic before you dive into using framework the way you say the framework is a little bit easier, but knowing the busy is very important.

00:28:37:06–00:29:09:27
Philippa Burgess
You know well, I do think one thing that I’m learning is because I’m and I’m doing some of it through university and I’m doing it, some of it self-study, and even our university points to resources like LinkedIn learning or free data camp or data or free free coach, free coaching people. Can we map? They point to things like free code camp or did camp or other things to actually help us get started because they don’t know what level all of us are at, who are in the class and they want to just make sure we all have a baseline.

00:29:10:04–00:29:36:27
Philippa Burgess
So they point us to these resources to get started. So I didn’t ask you out. Of course, over the summer I’m doing a python course right now, but I know that I’m in the Women Developers Academy and I want to go kind of further. And my goal is to become a Google development expert and in this geospatial world, and I can’t do that without knowing and being functional and an expert in Google Earth engine.

00:29:37:01–00:30:07:11
Philippa Burgess
And so when I was kind of one of my like I said, my current assignment, I specifically picked the task as we were supposed to compare to tools and and I actually need to do like a tool within these broader systems. And when I was kind of getting my my first kind of run at it, it was like JavaScript I but what you’re saying is about the, you know, boolean and the data types without what I’m getting is that once you know them, they’re applicable across all software, all the platforms.

00:30:07:11–00:30:17:10
Philippa Burgess
So the idea is that it might be a bit harder when you’re beginning since so many of these things are new to you. But once you get going, you see them again and again and again. Yeah.

00:30:17:12–00:30:44:12
Joy Agbo
Yes, yes, yes. You’re correct. If you if you not if you know the basics, if you know the data types, you know, you just know the basics about it and constant like continuous learning because every day I’m still learning. I’m still even me. I’m still learning every day because everything you get, you know, you learn every day in this textbooks, you just constantly you can’t stop learning every day, new new technologies.

00:30:44:14–00:31:03:26
Joy Agbo
And you have to you know, just get to know it. You have to learn it in the act to, like, follow the trend. So it’s important also, you know, the basic was, you know, the basics is is I think across programing languages. I think the basics I think it’s almost the same thing that it says almost the same thing.

00:31:03:26–00:31:36:18
Joy Agbo
So, you know, the basics of of of a programing language, I think knowing the fundamentals, the basics will help you more. And so it’s good you start you look for course that easier and that easy for you. Some courses are kind of advanced. Well, you might not know, they might tell you, this is a beginner friendly, but once you get in, you may get confused because I’ve faced such things before me myself, two, of course, and I’m teaching.

00:31:36:21–00:32:14:02
Joy Agbo
I’m like, this just this is not a beginner course. This is for people that, you know, advanced people have no doubt in the game already, like they know it very well. Maybe for me, intermediate advanced. Well, so is as a beginner, go for the go for basic, like I said, the fundamentals and also I think our best people to go for and to pre-code camp it’s their resources are very good and it’s beginner I’m also I also I’m also taking courses on through boot camp I’m still learning or three could come myself.

00:32:14:04–00:32:43:17
Joy Agbo
So I think our advice also you go to camp for good camp is beginner friendly. Then there’s the W-2s course also. That’s also that’s also a friendly the also and I think there was a course I took on Udacity and a JavaScript course too. It’s also good somebody recommended screen back to me. I do have really good I’ve never gotten recommended screen back to me.

00:32:43:17–00:32:50:00
Joy Agbo
And so I think also that is also good.

00:32:50:03–00:33:10:07
Philippa Burgess
I yeah, I know there’s a lot out there. I think that’s probably some of what is it is is it can be so overwhelming There’s just so many different places. There’s no lack of places to learn this. And I find I, I am not a linear learner. I have known that about myself. I like to take in a little bit like I’ll finish a course, but it’s not the only thing.

00:33:10:07–00:33:30:02
Philippa Burgess
I’m also reading a book. I’m also have an audiobook going. I’ll look for a video on YouTube and then it just kind of comes together. But I tend to like gathering different resources and kind of going through them. You know, I’ll go from start to finish, but I’m doing a couple at the same time and it sort of they all sort of feed and ultimately I get there.

00:33:30:04–00:33:53:22
Philippa Burgess
And the other thing that’s absolutely changed my life, it really changed my life is I can ask Chatty Betty. I can ask Barbara. And it is it it gives me so much more comfort to know that I don’t have to dig through the resource. I don’t have to go through, even if we have a companion book or a reading, I have to dig in to like, find the specific answer to my question.

00:33:53:24–00:34:06:02
Philippa Burgess
I can just that good. It’s really good at coding and I’m able to answer all sorts of questions that I couldn’t otherwise if that tool didn’t exist.

00:34:06:04–00:34:26:00
Joy Agbo
Yeah, yeah. And also, yes, I forgot to mention that there are lots of resources out there that can, you know, you just want to look, you tick this particular resource so you do not finish the day. You go to that one. There are lots of resources out there. That’s why I say you should look for the one day.

00:34:26:00–00:34:48:14
Joy Agbo
You know that you, you, you can do like you enjoy, you know, learning that does. I recommended if you could come because of the way it is structured do it is and those those that you got you to you take this course you take this course you take this course take this course. Just there are lots of information out there.

00:34:48:14–00:35:09:14
Joy Agbo
There are lots of resources out there. So you just take on, you know, streamline it. And also, as you are learning, you should also be building. I think I learned that one when I started. I just said it’s not about learning even after learn. If you don’t build, you can’t do anything. You what you learn is not just is not just it, that’s all.

00:35:09:14–00:35:40:01
Joy Agbo
Because even if you are learning, you can take all the courses and everything, have all the certificates. If there is no project to show, if there is nothing to show, then your learning is just as good as not learning anything because when it when the recruits are, maybe when you’re looking for a job and they say, okay, so maybe your portfolio should do what it does and the only thing you can show them is just the bunch of certificates that you’ve got nothing to show.

00:35:40:01–00:36:02:17
Joy Agbo
There was this is bull. And also when you learn online, when you take those courses or you tool on because I know that when you learn how you build, you are also like you because you are good, you become an expert also because learning and building is what makes you develop because there’s no point learning anything, you know?

00:36:02:19–00:36:24:16
Joy Agbo
So it’s good. You build, you build and you use what you’ve learned. You you, you learn and you use what you’ve learned to build projects. There are lots of beginner friendly projects you can build and you can you can use what you’ve learned to build. So that is the all This idea is not about learning. I think is somebody on LinkedIn.

00:36:24:16–00:36:49:18
Joy Agbo
I love Danny Thompson. I remember he said, Just don’t lend those Donlin, Those don’t watch videos. Take the serious without building because it is what you beautiful what you learn that you would show to recruiters that you should that yes what you’ve learned what you’ve learned you’ve you use yeah using what you’ve learned to build something.

00:36:49:20–00:37:17:18
Philippa Burgess
I think that is yes so important and that’s interested like on the map siting, we build maps. So my deliverable is a map and I gave a talk on women in Greece. It was a lightning talk and the topic was education. And they were talking about how we are, you know, I just shared my growth in a year and explaining how I had not heard of these different platforms or tools a year ago and then showed what I had learned.

00:37:17:21–00:37:43:08
Philippa Burgess
And my examples were and here are the maps, so I could sort of show how my portfolio was coming together in terms of how to create these data maps. And yet the this software is so challenging to learn. It’s taken me a while that even one of the most basic functions, which is how do you create features? And that’s a project we’re learning about right now in our in our Python customization class.

00:37:43:10–00:38:16:18
Philippa Burgess
And we had to put 20 points on a map and I realized I was like, Wow, I don’t even know how to do this one function in a simple, clean. I’ve always done it either complicated or didn’t quite do it or imported data. And in so I love what you’re saying about create data maps. And as I get more into tech and tech development, I mean, part of Google Earth Engine, why do I want to learn JavaScript is so I can create data and mapping project through that platform and say, okay, here’s here’s what we could do with this tool.

00:38:16:21–00:38:38:04
Philippa Burgess
And so I love that what you’re saying is like, make sure that your your, your building, your portfolio. I think that is I have another 18 months of school and that is absolutely the goal is to come out of school with a very rich and something I’m really proud of in terms of a tech portfolio, but also a creative portfolio.

00:38:38:12–00:39:09:12
Joy Agbo
So like I said, I was just I had issues first of all with my laptop, plus I was coming from in non-tech background learning JavaScript and I was new to the field. But when I decided it’s going to take I know my laptop, I didn’t like I said everything didn’t know the spec that was needed. So I, I was learning JavaScript I scope, I downloaded an app on my phone.

00:39:09:14–00:39:37:18
Joy Agbo
I was learning, I was writing. I didn’t know what I was doing. I so I left it totally like I left them like is not I don’t I just left. But in 2021, I’ve got the COVID 19. No wonder, you know, the lockdown was not that like the way it was before everybody else in 2021. That was that the pivot.

00:39:37:18–00:40:08:09
Joy Agbo
I came across the Romantic fellowship. I decided to I said, okay, let me think about this. I think this thing is good because then I think I have and I’ve personally so like more understanding of what this is all about. I think I, I felt were one of the reason why, I think was because there is this freedom to give to you.

00:40:08:12–00:40:37:15
Joy Agbo
I do know there’s this freedom like you can be anywhere. You can do anything, anywhere in the world. You can connect with people, you know, anywhere. I saw when I came to understand what this is all about, I went back, I said, No, I will finish this thing. I will get into this fellowship. I must do this fellowship.

00:40:37:17–00:41:01:05
Joy Agbo
That was that was what I said. I said, I must get I was getting this fellowship right The first time I did not get in, I went back to review. I went back to review everything and my application. I went back to review my responses. I went and I understood what they wanted. I thought I did I did my research on what they wanted.

00:41:01:05–00:41:33:02
Joy Agbo
And that was and I now have a reason why I was getting this piece and so when this school and the Phase three cohort three class came out, I applied and I got in getting into the fellowship. I knew I didn’t really know how to fellowship thing. It was I have never experienced conflict, but even when I was in the university, I do not go to class.

00:41:33:04–00:42:00:29
Joy Agbo
Therefore I like I don’t have just a few minutes. I do good class. I’ll sit like I high is just as I go. Reflectors. Are you good? But I know that. But this fellowship was very tough. I would like especially going back and fucking the thing. You know this email because in the back end we have to start from the beginning the most.

00:42:00:29–00:42:26:19
Joy Agbo
This is where we got into Know Diaz itself. It was not easy. There were days I said, I’m tired. I feel I put my services. That’s exercise. I remember I always used to say why did that evil to think why I do that? Those people psychology up there are psychologists. Easy. It does. You know, you have to suck the people.

00:42:26:25–00:42:48:21
Joy Agbo
You you have people that have meant that you miss. You know, you look at the hospital, you sit, you talk to people, you help people. Well, why did I feel sick on there? When I look back and I almost look back and I said, no, I have a mistake. People die in that case. They do not had people dying that they didn’t have to had.

00:42:48:24–00:42:51:01
Joy Agbo
That was what they said.

00:42:51:03–00:42:59:27
Philippa Burgess
And I want to also go back to a bit of just asking a question about we get sometimes get in our own way because we.

00:43:00:00–00:43:25:08
Joy Agbo
I, I was like, okay, why did I choose this take? Why why psychologist is like, let me say this. This psychology would say, look, we do coma and that takes us in endurance and we think I’m a good take. Well, no, just to my psychology. I’m like, where did I st right invested. Well if I had to go?

00:43:25:15–00:44:02:27
Joy Agbo
And then one of my goals is to see that I think I’ve always had to have a hope. It took Hubble where I teach people we are we may come home and be vulnerable. You know, we are to help more women to get into tech and help moments to see the opportunities they take. Because I notice that intake of you don’t have to know how to you don’t need to have maybe it goes but that something to get to and gets a job.

00:44:02:27–00:44:23:24
Joy Agbo
You don’t need to know somebody because I’ve had issues where you once you apply for a job, you don’t have one person at the top, you will not get the job. And it’s saying take what will help you get a job is your skills, is your skill, is what you can do, not who you know, but what you can’t do.

00:44:23:27–00:44:47:15
Joy Agbo
That was one of the reason why I said I won’t give up because I don’t need to pay anybody to get a job here. I can get was I know what I’m doing. I can a job. And so well, so that was the reason why I didn’t give up, because I believe it is your and it is your skill that would get you the job because you know somebody.

00:44:47:18–00:45:11:08
Joy Agbo
And so I believe that if you I don’t know what it is, if you put your mind to something, you can achieve it no matter what. My bad laptop ideas were mentioned it. I got I had to get a loan from my mom to buy a new laptop. I go to the lab. That was because I was determined I was getting to the state.

00:45:11:08–00:45:31:28
Joy Agbo
By all means. I took out a loan with my mom and got in a new laptop so that just because I want to be able to do the romantic stuff, fellowship because I really needed to, part of the solution. So I took us alone and I got a new laptop for my mom. I took out looking and I got a new laptop, which was what I used throughout the course of the fellowship.

00:45:31:28–00:45:55:25
Joy Agbo
And I’m still using I still using the laptop of now. So I think taking out a loan is also saying that I was determined enough and I’m happy I got into the tech because today when people once asked me to sit down now like do like you, you know, always give me some of this is in fact my first cousin.

00:45:55:25–00:46:24:19
Joy Agbo
When they have issues it maybe they have some issues they were just let me or they didn’t They have technical issues. They just had me. They have technical issues. And the first person is me. They’ll call me and call that, she’s having issues. She can register for this. You can. Can I help unlicensed. I would just like well, I’m happy that they can reach out to me and I’m getting although I’m not where I want to be yet but I knew I would check on.

00:46:24:24–00:46:39:02
Joy Agbo
I don’t think I’m giving up anything because I will get to that. Their goal of becoming a woman in tech, a woman in tech, helping other women get into the text piece, I will achieve this.

00:46:39:04–00:47:03:15
Philippa Burgess
I love it. I don’t know. So it’s such an inspiring story and not only how you’ve helped yourself, how you help others, how these there are these global organizations that have these programs, they create these opportunities I think is amazing and that a lot of these resources that we’re talking about are global. From three to day camp, Rico camp, like they’re all, you know, available.

00:47:03:15–00:47:22:03
Philippa Burgess
And I think that that’s, you know, so inspiring to sort of that this education is out there. I’m on a lot of Facebook groups. There’s a lot of people on LinkedIn I follow. So once you kind of get into it, you start gravitating to finding the people who speak about the things that you want to learn and building community.

00:47:22:10–00:47:23:17
Philippa Burgess
So when did you become a tech maker?

00:47:23:17–00:47:44:04
Joy Agbo
Ambassador I got in this year and this my first time of applying. I’ve read stories of ladies applying some policies they have applied. This is not the first time, but I was surprised I applied. This is my first time of applying for the women that make us Ambassador program and I got this and this.

00:47:44:04–00:47:45:19
Philippa Burgess
So I’m a year.

00:47:45:21–00:47:45:26
Joy Agbo
All.

00:47:46:03–00:48:07:16
Philippa Burgess
Welcome this year. I heard they had a lot of applications and I know a lot of I heard of a lot of people who didn’t get in the first year. I’d never heard of it before I applied. I got in. They didn’t think much of it, but I think they’ve also grown significantly. I remember last year, I believe they were saying there were 1000 global women tech makers and now there are 3000 global women tech makers.

00:48:07:18–00:48:32:04
Philippa Burgess
And so our community is growing and it’s a small number, but to me it’s impactful in the fact that I’ve been doing. I started with this audio summit, so I did one for International Women’s Day and I interviewed eight women tech maker ambassadors. And that was the first time I got to just see how powerful and inspiring these women are and how collaborative.

00:48:32:06–00:49:17:24
Philippa Burgess
And then I did another audio summit for Google IO. And then this fall I basically opened the stage and we’ve been doing these interviews. So you’re one of 18 interviews that I’m just so pleased to share because we get to put this message out to others about these journeys and that these journeys, they all start somewhere. They all started from being kind of an outsider to an insider and they all took a fair amount of resilience and grit and determination, and they all end in giving back to the community and helping others and then continuing to grow their voices and their ability to inspire others, which is just so amazing.

00:49:17:26–00:49:36:27
Philippa Burgess
So As we wrap this up, what advice do you have for people? And take as long as you want to just, you know, share it, share that advice and maybe some of the things you saw in the women that you’ve mentored and and helped into these programs, that sort of transformation that you’ve seen, they’re like.

00:49:37:11–00:50:13:28
Joy Agbo
okay. So what I have is that I don’t be scared. Don’t be scared to do it. Just don’t just start and don’t be scared as do. Yes, the women in the tech space, they are no much, but still don’t scared to relax them. Don’t allow anybody make you feel you are not good at Don’t don’t don’t don’t allow what they’re seeing get to you because you are you are bigger than what they are seeing.

00:50:14:01–00:50:35:17
Joy Agbo
You are not what they say you are. Because when I look back, I was going to ask that guy question the way he responded and the way he was behaving. I didn’t know if it was if then was now, I don’t think I would have reached out to him because now I have a community of women that I can reach out to.

00:50:35:20–00:50:58:27
Joy Agbo
So if if you were looking for a look for which there are lots of opportunities, especially for women, don’t give up. Go for it. You can do that. Maybe get less that you want to leave. You can leave it. It’s possible they said take and and STEM is not it? Women’s for them is for everybody. No matter your gender.

00:50:58:27–00:51:22:18
Joy Agbo
Don’t allow your gender to limit you don’t say because Because you are a woman, you can’t do what you want. You can be whoever whatever you want to be. Don’t allow anybody. But you do allow what the what they are allowed distractions, noise. AS yeah. WOMAN You can’t get to that level. You can’t do that. Then you can’t be who you want.

00:51:22:20–00:51:50:12
Joy Agbo
You can become that. And that’s top in your, in your developer. You can become that in your executive. No, you can be whoever you set your mind to the you can do with you can go from psychology into software development. No technical background, no sense, cause I’m not being looked at background. I can come from psychology tech. Then you guys, I can do it, you can do it.

00:51:50:14–00:52:15:08
Joy Agbo
Don’t give up this light at the end of this, on this Invite people keep on. Then you keep on being the woman you are. I’m going to let anybody to make you feel less like yourself. Yes, you might. You might have imposter syndrome at the beginning, but with consistency, dedication of festival, you will get to the top. Thank you.

00:52:15:10–00:52:38:03
Philippa Burgess
But I was going to say with that, you know, that idea of imposter syndrome. I think part of it also is like when you are aligned with these organizations and you become a member. I feel like that to me eliminates imposter syndrome because it’s like I belong. I’m part of this group. And so, for example, I’ve taken an interest lately in cybersecurity.

00:52:38:05–00:53:03:09
Philippa Burgess
I joined the Women in Cybersecurity organization. I’m in the conversation. I have now put together a chat with some of our other women talk makers, and they’re at all levels of cybersecurity. So I may just be at the beginning, but I don’t feel a sense of imposter because I feel like I’m in the group, I’m in the club, I’m in the conversation.

00:53:03:11–00:53:31:26
Philippa Burgess
And so I think that aligning ourselves with groups and especially a lot of the groups, I’m finding myself even I’m like I mentioned, cybersecurity is a women in cybersecurity. I’m part of an Armed Forces communications and electronics association, and I have completely connected with the women and they have been so welcoming. And when to talk about like my studies in AI and machine learning, they they have immediately said, come to our stage, come share that with us.

00:53:31:28–00:53:46:19
Philippa Burgess
And and so even though I’ve never served in the armed forces, I’m not military. You obviously in your country you were saying like you had that year of of of service give me a little bit more about that just because that’s new for me.

00:53:46:22–00:53:48:28
Joy Agbo
Okay. Create a question, please.

00:53:49:10–00:53:58:27
Philippa Burgess
so you just I’m just going to circling back to the beginning. You talked about a year of national service and that’s not something we do. Can you just give me a little bit more about what you do there?

00:53:59:08–00:54:28:25
Joy Agbo
okay. So the National Youth Service is a one year long program. You spend three weeks in a camp, you can call it nights camp. So in that three weeks, it’s just like you do like immunity and drilling and all of that. But you spend three weeks there, then two weeks you live and then you go, you’ll be posted to a PPA that’s in place of assignments.

00:54:28:29–00:55:08:10
Joy Agbo
And so during my National Youth Service, I was posted to a secondary school of as a teacher. So some people were posted to your doctor. Will you be posted to a hospital? Nurses and they requested different offices. Some were posted to military, some work with the military in their barracks. So that’s one year is the essence of the whole National Youth Service is just like getting to know the cultures and the cultures.

00:55:08:10–00:55:35:26
Joy Agbo
I believe of all the other tribes and all and all because I am from and I am from Benue State. I was born in Niger State. I grew up I did my secondary school, my primary school in Niger State. And I, I came back to businesses for my university. So now doing this now you service, you will be posted to another state entirely.

00:55:35:26–00:56:01:00
Joy Agbo
I was posted to Kwara. So so my younger sister was posted to Bayelsa State and I and some of my friends were posted to other regions in Nigeria. So that’s the essence of the national service. You go there just to foster unity and for unity to foster unity there you get then new things. You know, you learn, you languages, you learn, it’s new food.

00:56:01:03–00:56:26:25
Joy Agbo
You know, new culture. And you know, you try to integrate with the community. And so doing that national service, you have the opportunity to do this for record and kids. That’s community development service. So the kids, you go for it every week once a week. And in that is you before the end of your service, there’s a project you carry out for your community.

00:56:26:25–00:56:48:27
Joy Agbo
Sometimes we go for sensitization, we go for community service, we go for like we clean, we go to schools, talk about different topics to synthesize these students, go to the community, we go to the markets, we clean, you know, we clean the community and all that. We we try to bond with the community. You know, you learn something new.

00:56:49:03–00:57:11:00
Joy Agbo
I think I, I really enjoyed my national service because I got to meet lots of new people. Most of the people I know now and some friends I have now was there not my National Youth Service. I met them because I’m someone that already traveled, so I don’t visit the families. I do the job a lot like that.

00:57:11:00–00:57:34:26
Joy Agbo
So so most of the friends I have now, I met them through my National Youth Service and I, I think I learned a in language. I learn another language apart from mine. I, I met a lot of people from different parts of Nigeria, different cultures. And, you know, you tend to stick together for a Yeah, because this school I said, we’re giving it up in this school.

00:57:34:26–00:57:57:29
Joy Agbo
I lived inside the school, so I needed other class. We had an accommodation where we had other members there. We lived together like a family. Everybody, you each have your own, but you feel like a family. You know, we are grateful seeds. We go together, we laugh, you know, you joke, you play, you, you talk. You learn a lot from them.

00:57:58:01–00:58:15:23
Joy Agbo
Some people actually after the is from the service, some people do get married. You know, they meet their husbands in the service and they get married. Some people get jobs through, you know through that save you some of them some people get retained in their place of family. I so you don’t need to go back home again. You just continue.

00:58:15:23–00:58:40:19
Joy Agbo
So I so that’s the situation about nationalities. I think the minister is important. I think I was best one of the best time of my life because I had a lot of fun. I met a lot of new people and I think that was the first time I left home free for the first time whole year. No mom, no dad, no sisters and brothers myself.

00:58:40:22–00:59:03:13
Joy Agbo
So I know that people and it was also a period of learning for me. It was I think that’s also a part of learning for me too, because I tend to I discovered I can stay with people. Or do I went to boarding school, do my secondary school or boarding school. You are being you know, people are guiding.

00:59:03:14–00:59:19:03
Joy Agbo
But this one, I was alone, nobody to guide me or anything. And I was able to live with people, you know, learn from them. And it was fun. And it was also a learning process for me to.

00:59:19:06–00:59:41:12
Philippa Burgess
I thank you for sharing that, because it’s not something that we do in America. We have more of a men register for the draft and if there’s a draft, then they will go. But there’s nothing. I mean, they have programs but nothing that sort of required. So I appreciate you kind of giving us a a view into that, since that’s a new thing that I’m hearing about for the first time.

00:59:41:12–00:59:54:14
Philippa Burgess
And I think that it I can see the value and I can see all of the ways that that makes a lot of sense and ultimately serves the country and the individuals and helps in that growth and that transition out of home.