Muse and Metrics S5 EP 13 — Code Speak Teach with Rafna Bash [Guest Bio, Summary, Audio and Transcript]

Guest Bio

Rafna Bash is a seasoned Software Engineer with a remarkable track record in the tech industry. Her expertise extends to leading global cross-functional teams in developing comprehensive tech solutions. As a Technical Team Lead and Founder at Aktibeto since January 2014, Rafna has been instrumental in steering the company’s growth by leading the development of websites, apps, and software.

Prior to founding Aktibeto, Rafna served as an Engineering Manager at Charter BPO Solutions Pvt Ltd for nearly two years. In this role, she led diverse global teams to develop and customize software catering to a varied client base. Her earlier stint as a Software Engineer at the same company saw her developing web applications, integrating distributed applications, and assisting in database design and maintenance.

Rafna’s educational background in Computer Science and Engineering from the Adi Shankara Institute of Engineering and Technology laid a strong foundation for her technical skills. During her academic years, she actively participated in the Infinitz Technical Fest, showcasing her early inclination towards technology and innovation.

Apart from her technical prowess, Rafna is deeply committed to empowering the women’s community in technology. She actively engages in study groups, return-to-work program initiatives, and other social tech events, striving to create more inclusive and diverse spaces in the tech industry.

Rafna’s journey in tech is a blend of technical expertise and community leadership. Her contributions as a Women Techmakers Ambassador highlight her passion for mentoring and supporting women in the tech field. Balancing her role as a tech leader and a mother of two, Rafna also finds solace in gardening, a hobby that helps her unwind and stay connected to nature.

Summary

Key Highlights:

1. Introduction to Rafna Bash:

• Rafna Bash, a Women Techmakers Ambassador from Denver, Colorado, introduces herself.
• She balances her roles as a tech professional and a mother of two.
• Rafna is actively involved in organizing tech and social events, particularly focusing on technology and parenthood.
• Enjoys gardening as a relaxing pastime.

2. Programming Languages and Their Intricacies:

• Rafna discusses her journey with programming languages, starting with Java and its precise syntax.
• She expresses a preference for Python due to its readability and simplicity.
• Rafna delves into understanding the underlying mechanisms of programming languages, particularly C++.

3. Educational Background and Project Experience:

• Holds a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and Engineering.
• Gained comprehensive knowledge in computing during college, including a project on building a compiler.
• Emphasizes the learning and comparison of different programming languages.

4. Professional Evolution and Team Leadership:

• Transitions from C++ projects in college to a Java-based professional role.
• Shares experiences leading diverse global teams and the importance of adapting to various work cultures.
• Highlights the continuous evolution in tech and adapting to new technologies.

5. Multilingualism and Cultural Adaptation:

• Rafna draws parallels between programming languages and human languages, discussing her adaptability to different English accents in international settings.
• Reflects on the complexities of language learning and its implications in professional environments.

6. Advice for Aspiring Tech Professionals:

• Encourages aspiring tech individuals to embrace complex languages like Java.
• Advocates for a strong grasp of fundamental programming concepts.
• Stresses the significance of continuous learning and adaptation in technology.

7. Public Speaking and Effective Communication:

• Discusses her journey in developing public speaking skills.
• Rafna emphasizes the importance of effective communication and audience engagement.
• Shares her strategies for overcoming public speaking challenges.

8. Future Goals and Aspirations:

• Rafna expresses interest in space technology and its advancements.
• She aspires to contribute to space research and climate change initiatives using technology.
• Envisions teaching her children about science and technology, highlighting the importance of preparing the next generation for technological advancements.

Conclusion:

Rafna Bash’s episode on “Muse and Metrics” offers a profound insight into her journey as a Women Techmakers Ambassador, software engineer, and community leader. She delves into the nuances of programming languages, the importance of adaptability, and the evolving landscape of technology. Rafna’s dedication to mentorship, continuous learning, and her vision for future technological contributions make her story both inspiring and instructive for anyone in the tech industry.

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Transcript

(This is a raw transcript — there may be errors)

00;00;06;06–00;00;15;18
Philippa Burgess
Hello and welcome to Muse and Metrics. This is your host Philippa Burgess. This is season five episode 13 and today’s topic is Code Speak Teach.

00;00;15;22–00;00;45;02
Rafna Bash
I’m Rafna Bash. I am a Women Techmakers Ambassador and I’m from Denver, Colorado. I am a mom of two kids, so I get busy. I’m also the author of Women Who Go to Denver. I enjoy being out and being with people, organizing events, talking about it and talking about technology, parenthood, hustling with job and work and life. And I have a small garden.

00;00;45;03–00;01;13;14
Rafna Bash
So, you know, that’s my time spending some time in the garden. So that helps me a lot to relax when it comes to programing languages. There are certain things that you need to write in a certain way, then only process. So I started with Java and it’s very positive being about how to write each and every sentence like the function calls the order of the function calls, the even the semicolon.

00;01;13;14–00;01;47;27
Rafna Bash
We always have a semicolon. We make this in my column that we are getting a call from my work. And then there is like a one time rose followed by it because there’s some virus because of that. So it’s Java, so particular. But when it comes to Python, it’s very comparatively the writing. The code itself has more reading right, read and write format so you don’t have to worry about the syntax and the order and the function calls and the way you’re writing the code.

00;01;47;29–00;02;13;19
Rafna Bash
So that’s something. So for me it’s always like all the code is right, but the syntax is wrong. Although all of the function is normal. That’s the reason that I’m getting that. So why that behaves in a way that programing languages became that. And so starting with Java, I always see the things to do when I see a DOS.

00;02;13;19–00;02;44;08
Rafna Bash
My favorite language. So many people stay at me. It just it’s when compared to modern of recent trending versions of other languages like Python or JavaScript, it’s much more easier than Java in writing the code and it makes beginning that course. But for me, why is it? Why is it my favorite? That’s because it helps me to think about what’s happening in the behind.

00;02;44;11–00;03;17;09
Rafna Bash
Why is it behaving in the way it is? Behaving like my cord in my The logic is correct in my head. It’s got to do with my test manually. It’s all correct then it’s not correct. But I run on an editor, so why it’s happening? So it’s always about thinking about global variable, local variable point does. I think C++ would point to that something I took some time to understand, but each and every languages that I started with help me to think about like behind the scenes.

00;03;17;12–00;03;48;24
Rafna Bash
So when it comes to Python, it was very easy for me to start recording in Python because I’m very good with Davos. So now let’s think about, okay, so there’s all this compared with Java, like why it is different in Python. I mean, like not the beta analysis part, but just the programing as a programing language. So I think about like how okay, so this is working in this way in Python and it should it is going to work in this way in Java.

00;03;49;00–00;04;21;19
Rafna Bash
So in a comparison analysis, I don’t know, like I, I like technology in that I am so passionate about it. Like I just go big and begin to see and make myself in a mess thinking why do I have to do it? What you do. But I spend more time in analyzing what each programing language is about than how they differ each other, how they work, and then behind how it makes sense.

00;04;21;19–00;04;50;04
Rafna Bash
So in that way for me, whenever I learn a new technology, it’s easier for me to understand because I’ve been digging through this a long time. And yeah, in I had bachelors in Computer Science and Engineering, so during my college we were taught all the things, not just the programing languages. So there was network computing database, different programing languages, algorithms.

00;04;50;04–00;05;11;28
Rafna Bash
And then at the end of the course, we had to do a project on our own. So we did this making a compiler so it can happen any code and then the compiler will compile and get the results that you wanted. So it was an interesting choice because we we were taught about the programing languages, but we were the class.

00;05;11;28–00;05;37;04
Rafna Bash
We were not taught by any specific programing languages or what are the basics of life like how would each and now like the inheritance, the polymorphism, all of those basic terms in the in the programing language is how it differs between C++ or Java or Python. We all languages. And then we had to pick our own language for doing a project.

00;05;37;04–00;06;13;05
Rafna Bash
So we did with C++. It was fun. And, and when I think about now of these programing languages, like there’s so much of plugins now that makes our job easier. But back then we have to write each and everything our own. There wasn’t enough plugins available, there was some basic plugins available and, and when it comes to designing a project like a product of your own, there are so many frameworks that we can use at that time.

00;06;13;05–00;06;36;25
Rafna Bash
We have to design our own. So this was kind of like that’s one of the essentials of you have to learn before even try to go the back end. At that time, the switch between. So I got the job in Java, so I learned I did the programing for my project, C++ in C++ by learning by myself. Like what?

00;06;36;26–00;07;00;10
Rafna Bash
So we are a group of people, a group of other friends too. So we all learned together C++. And then I got the job in Java. And so I, I know the basics of Java. That’s the only thing that I knew. So I had to start from scratch. You have to put it in Java. And then so now when I think about it now, it’s does not have changed.

00;07;00;12–00;07;28;04
Rafna Bash
Still very sad the times of like how different programing languages really in different angles. So as I said some are focused on simplifying the syntax, some are focused on simplifying, having as many plugins as you can so that it’s when you write programing, you don’t have to have like a lot of thousands of lines of codes anymore. It’s interesting to see that changed.

00;07;28;06–00;08;01;03
Rafna Bash
So when you talk about learning the languages like Chinese, German and everything. So I’m, I’m from India. We had lived in India in these in the national language, but each and every state has different languages. So so 30 states, 30 different languages, not pretty, but giving back each and every state has their own languages. We studied when I studied, we followed prediction place and I worked worked as an Australian company.

00;08;01;03–00;08;34;11
Rafna Bash
So we had Australian clients and I had to work with the Australian coworkers. So Australian English is different. I mean the accent is different. And then I went, I was promoted as an engineering manager. I had to lead teams from UK, New Zealand and Australia and India. So, so for different accents, even though they are only British, British English, they had different accents.

00;08;34;11–00;09;03;02
Rafna Bash
So and then I moved to the US and it’s completely different English. So now when I met my kids, they learn English in their school and they come by. I mean it’s only three boys now. They are learning the words and letters. I mean, let us through this morning. So different letters have different sounds. And my kids was asking them why, why?

00;09;03;05–00;09;30;27
Rafna Bash
And so I’m realizing that English is the most complex, that language in a way, because that’s like one or one letter. You have like three different pronunciation sounds. So and there’s no reason for that. And there’s no explanation for why this happened like that. It is just the way it to go. And my for my kid always asking why, why is this now and not that?

00;09;30;27–00;10;04;23
Rafna Bash
And especially the C word, it’s like it’s called CAD. And what in some of some words, it’s sound. So why? It’s so I’m learning a lot about English language and saying I was English. That’s worldwide. Most of the countries understand English, so it’s kind of like a world language, but it’s different. I haven’t realized that till I got here in the US and as I said, some people don’t understand me.

00;10;04;23–00;10;30;19
Rafna Bash
Even though I am speaking English, they don’t understand me. And it’s because, like I say, certain what’s British English. And I don’t realize that. So language, even though is in technology. So like everything is a programing. So what they do is like you write the code and then it executes. So that’s the process of I mean, that’s the general process.

00;10;30;21–00;10;59;11
Rafna Bash
And then you mix it with different programing languages, it has different accents. So all these accents and now like, you know, you need to learn and understand these accents, differential accents in these program, everything that’s the same like, you know, you write the code, you get your, you know, according to your input, you’ll get the output and the logic and everything is clear and it performs what it should be.

00;10;59;13–00;11;37;20
Rafna Bash
But when it comes to programing, whether it’s that it’s a common language like English, it has different accents. So those accent has to be understand and then you have to change it. When you’re in the US, you’re speaking in U.S., India and Australia, you’re speaking about Australian accent. So like that you are then you are using Python, then you’re using Python and JavaScript, but they all do the same thing and so it’s about like retracts and you’re comfortable with it to have like Python or JavaScript to accomplish something.

00;11;37;20–00;12;13;00
Rafna Bash
And then there’s like so many other techniques, all of these like what? What do you want to do? What’s your project is about what your product is doing? And so based on that, you get to define like, I’m choosing this language and choosing that right. So choosing this technology for doing this purpose because it is much more capable of doing what I wanted to do languages, technology and every day we are putting new framework, new really release, new versions of technologies, really easy and it all has different things.

00;12;13;00–00;12;53;28
Rafna Bash
That’s new features added to it. So a year ago, if I learned something, it’s not the same this year. So this year it’s doing much more of what cool features added to it that makes it more competitive than the other technologies that’s available alongside that. So it’s always better than making one technology. They all work for improving the performance in a way that it’s the most favorable trending technology that everybody loves, that everybody loves to use, and learning technology.

00;12;54;00–00;13;24;06
Rafna Bash
It’s about like, wow, there’s so many options. So and that’s the beauty of it. Do it has the negative also comes together because so many options you get overwrite them but what you what should I learn when it comes to which technology what I wanted to learn, what would be beneficial for me to get a job or like get a promotion and what what another skill I should after it.

00;13;24;06–00;13;54;02
Rafna Bash
What what should I learn? New or better ideas. And the beauty of that. Like, you don’t have to learn all the skills. You can stick to a few things and get better. I feel a few of those things. Only you can learn all of them and then you can do, you know, work on anything that’s out there, any technology that’s something that’s has it’s bad and good day because you have so many options.

00;13;54;04–00;14;17;15
Rafna Bash
But I like that too, to have that different options so people can choose different ways and mean people are have different skills that supports them. So I like that way that I know all these technology is like I’m, I’m, I’m in that situation that I have to learn it and use it. So c c was never used in my work.

00;14;17;17–00;14;47;04
Rafna Bash
And so, you know, so there wasn’t a part in front of me that was like, I’m put in this situation. So you just got the got the stick and go run. But it was like that. So, but it’s, you know, it’s, it’s 15 years ago. So a lot has changed during this time, right? So when I was graduating the things were different.

00;14;47;04–00;15;17;25
Rafna Bash
But now if I’m graduating now, I have more resources available, more organizations available to help me think about like what which path I have to move forward or what technologies I have to learn. So when I was learning Java, I wasn’t thinking through seeing that better. This will be the one I am focusing on whether this is the technology that I should be learning to have to build my career.

00;15;17;25–00;15;41;07
Rafna Bash
It wasn’t there wasn’t any thought like that at that time. It was like I, I was falling into this group and then I have to do that, do the job. So I have to like I’m forced to do so right now. So that’s that’s what know when I talk to other members of my own. And now we have so many resources, especially after pandemic, everything is online.

00;15;41;07–00;16;27;24
Rafna Bash
So that also helps too. But before pandemic also, we did have this we did this have a group or organization that give that clear idea and path, seeing that if you’re learning this language, all the stick knowledge, then you can learn the related ones like this and then you can have a job like that. So you know, your whether you’re focusing on back and matter, you have to focus on some sort Fullstack or frontend or design or B, that’s why there’s so many roles and pass the point to each and everything.

00;16;28;00–00;16;55;15
Rafna Bash
So it’s, it’s easier much to understand, like I need to learn this, this is my and again like there’s always mentors available seeing that you need to understand your passion. You are trained to decide on which which career you want to choose. I wasn’t there before, so now I advice. So somebody asked me like, What do you would say to your younger self?

00;16;55;18–00;17;24;13
Rafna Bash
That’s always saying, you know, mostly I was thinking at some point I was always able to like I should go with the I’m thinking that I wanted to get into this role or be a senior leader or I need to trust my gut, then see that I should go towards that. But there wasn’t any mentors available. There wasn’t any organization that helps in that way at that time.

00;17;24;20–00;17;52;25
Rafna Bash
So now we have that opportunity. We have that fortunate situation that there’s organizations like Google. I mean, women take me girls, women who go, Everyone help is there to help you ask a question. You get to at least ten replies, responses on your questions and different point of perspective. So different point of views on on that the question that you asked.

00;17;52;25–00;18;28;21
Rafna Bash
So there’s all this help now. So it’s always good to think about what path I wanted to go in and learn that technology associated with it. So it’s it’s much more interesting to learn in that way. And it becomes interesting, exciting to learn that technology because I wanted to become a face like what I do. So my next thing is that I want to call it this milestone, but it’s like there’s so many space related space.

00;18;28;25–00;18;53;02
Rafna Bash
So this so many space related research is ongoing. We are advancing. They’re more focused on space tech than before, like ten years before we did. And there were some, but not like other than now. And for companies, there wasn’t any known companies that’s working on space. And it’s, you know, what technology you that can be associate know related with that.

00;18;53;04–00;19;24;27
Rafna Bash
But now there’s a lot of research is happening in that field. I wanted to try and see like what what would be my path towards it. Like, you know what I’m standing now, what I came from and what could be my next level world, where should I go? So space there and then right now I it’s it’s getting interesting for me to learn like I should and should dig my and find it to see a world that is great to go.

00;19;25;03–00;19;59;17
Rafna Bash
So I’m teaching my kids about science and math and, and now they have they’ve started according to like my oldest is eight years old so is more interested in coding and how gaming especially. So he wanted to design his own game and he wanted to and he’s interested in space. So we watch space X launch and everything, so it’s always so part of that watching and learning.

00;19;59;17–00;20;22;09
Rafna Bash
And I’m also giving him some instructions. And then part of me thinking about like when he grew up, like when I was at his age, there was no space. Like we know we learn that Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. That’s the only space event that we learned or we know of at that age. When I would say consoles.

00;20;22;11–00;20;57;07
Rafna Bash
But now there’s so much going on. And I was like when he grew up and and and he he’d been it’s time for him to decide what to learn or which career to choose. What would be, how much would be our progress in everything, especially in space. And because there’s more data available, more technology, more improved technology that helps in collecting all these data and makes decisions.

00;20;57;10–00;21;32;08
Rafna Bash
And so and with the with the generative II, it’s more it’s more advanced than before. So it’s kind of like it’s predicting something we can we can live in. You know, I don’t have to be an expert to ask Bob or WBB about predicting something for me in the Space Day next super event happening in terms of launching or what technology is using.

00;21;32;11–00;21;54;07
Rafna Bash
How would this use all this information? It’s now more available than before. So it’s kind of like curious. And now like where am I gonna stand in the next ten years and I guess the ten years and how much we have improved in those technology to capture more information, more data, whether the civilization outside us would be possible.

00;21;54;09–00;22;26;18
Rafna Bash
What happens to the climate here with the help of satellites, more satellites have more climate focused satellites out there. And with the technology that we have generating there that we would get have. But the earth has much more air, you know, predictions on climate change and the measures to take measures to help us or make the earth more enjoyable place to live than now.

00;22;26;20–00;22;58;19
Rafna Bash
So that’s that’s my future hope to life technology, how we can improve our climate predictions and make measures to remedy the problems that’s happening right now with climate. And then we can we can make a more enjoyable, more livable earth, like less disease because of the climate, climate changes, ecosystem destroying ecosystem because of the climate, we can produce those.

00;22;58;21–00;23;46;17
Rafna Bash
I’m I don’t think we can completely remove it, but we can reduce the impact of that destroying our ecosystem and make it more strengthening, like how to strengthen our ecosystem, to sustain human life for ever. So that’s something that interesting I wanted to see in terms of like when you said that in world space and then obviously you say there’s always like, you know, exploring other planets and whether with the help of data and analysis and research, whether we would be able to have another habitable planet or not, that’s always like, that’s my I think personally I wanted to pursue my career, to work that direction in the future so that it’s much more and

00;23;46;17–00;24;09;20
Rafna Bash
I think it’s it’s also gives me that pleasure of like giving back to the community to like, you know, learn more stuff. And right now I’m doing so many community work. It helps me with that to like how I can help in that way if I learn some technologies related to that, that’s kind of it’s a it’s not a bad defined.

00;24;09;20–00;24;40;03
Rafna Bash
But again, I’ve been through that. So I think I can handle the heat of the chaos of it. It’s interesting. I’m looking forward to seeing more changes in that field, but I always apply for behind the scenes. I can organize. I can come to that and introduce speakers that I can do that. It’s not as focused over one and I can do that, but it’s always that struggle of like making sure it’s exciting the what I’m talking about.

00;24;40;03–00;25;15;05
Rafna Bash
Then it should be like within that time frame and it should be about this topic and then being stuck to it and organized in what I’m talking about. It gives me that an idea of why I don’t think I’m good with that structure or format. But right now I’m practicing like how to do that. So in different groups of like women in public speaking skill of practicing and networking, there’s so many meetup groups that that focus on public speaking skills.

00;25;15;05–00;25;41;16
Rafna Bash
And I’m going there and when they ask me to introduce and videos, I mean there’s no question why I would say one hour and then say that you don’t need a practice on me, that you’re very good with your public speaking there. And then, and then I’ll start saying that I want good with with these things. That’s where I need improvement.

00;25;41;18–00;26;26;05
Rafna Bash
And now I’m practicing those skills like they’ve given me so many tips and doing how to tackle that issue. But still, like I’m working on it. I’m one day, I’ve been getting better. So part of me is like it should, you know, practice well, practice before so and make it like and stuff like award attendance maybe like maybe that’s like, you know, as I’m talking to somebody else and and make think the situation and pretend that I’m not there yet but I’m still practicing and trying to get better at that.

00;26;26;07–00;26;50;02
Rafna Bash
But I a good but I’m I’m happy to organize events. I’m happy to introduce guests. I can I can go up and I could say something that I’m really good with. And I’m happy to do that, too. When it comes to could you be the speaker of of of does it mean then I hesitate to say yes to prepare.

00;26;50;05–00;27;17;12
Rafna Bash
And another part is like you need to get ready for it. That posture, that mindset, everything has to be aligned to make that step, that talk cool very well. So then when it’s not comfortable, your posture is not going to be good in why being more personable like, you know, and the children are face to face. And so that’s also not enjoyable in that way.

00;27;17;12–00;27;55;17
Rafna Bash
Like when you’re saying something about audience, they are looking at our face and see that the numbers are really inside, and that gives away a lot of things like, so that’s also that fear of that giving away our emotions and that that’s something also like, you know, get used to it, get it’s, I think it’s a work in progress but those would be those people who can face the audience, those not a lot of people like that.

00;27;55;20–00;28;24;03
Rafna Bash
So it’s just a skill that I needed to improve on and understand. You know, as more of my public speaking group member said, like, do you just imagine that this is your house or, you know, a group that you know, all of all of these people and imagine that you’re talking to them on this topic. So it would be much more easier.

00;28;24;06–00;28;53;26
Rafna Bash
It’s always a distraction to keep people for the time and focus on that sometimes. So I’ll always keep up the topics that I’m currently working with. So again, so that’s much more easier and I really like, I don’t have to do a lot of research on it because for the work that I’m doing, I’m doing that research. So I have some experience and I have some data, I have I have some knowledge on what what this topic is about.

00;28;53;29–00;29;24;23
Rafna Bash
That’s, that’s because I’m currently working and so it’s easier to talk about it and prepare the content of what I’m wanted to talk. And then always comes to like, you know, whether I should be having a scripted way of presenting the topic or should I be going like Fremantle. And something that someone also gave me intense, like I’m the only person know that what all of the things that I’m going to be presenting at the state.

00;29;24;26–00;29;43;08
Rafna Bash
So if I miss something, something that’s okay because they don’t know if I’m going to see that or not, or I can, you know, change the order again. If I remember in the middle of like, you know, after seeing all of the that I remember, there was one more point and I can add it to say a forgot.

00;29;43;08–00;30;11;26
Rafna Bash
And it’s okay to say that I forgot to include this point in the middle, whereas we’re supposed to or give us an ADR or a or a story associated with. So that audience get that point. And I really like it’s not that like or she forgot and then the last minute she added it it’s not it won’t seem like you’re telling a story and then you you’re getting to the point that you focus so they won’t remember it.

00;30;11;26–00;30;47;09
Rafna Bash
Just like that’s the forgotten point would be like, that’s a good story. And that’s a good point that in that way. So it will apply to my, my skill set of like improvise in and adding something. But that was the point I have to tell in the presentation. But I missed it and that’s okay. But I improvised and added that attempted by mixing with a story or incident or something like that so that it’s more enjoyable for the audience.

00;30;47;11–00;31;09;20
Rafna Bash
It’s very they remember that point, the point that one, that’s one way to do it. And I find that that’s one helpful to me. And in my case, like, you know, I always think like, you know, I have to go through this. There’s an order, right? So and you missed that point. Then I get I’m like, what? What am I going to do?

00;31;09;21–00;31;41;28
Rafna Bash
Right. So you can improvise in a way. So that puts it in my my character. And then it’s, you know, I don’t have to worry about whether I’m facing and the timing is the one thing. And I think you’re you’re I’m going to do that, you know, having practicing but this time that the timer always set and see how that works for me and again like it’s it’s not used in a work setting, right.

00;31;42;06–00;32;11;17
Rafna Bash
So even though I have this experience, I haven’t got into a situation that I have to misrepresent the topic to the to the team or to the company when it comes to. So it’s not like as technology flows and as a developer, as an engineer, as a mean in minutes, the talking part came into my career. Then I was promoted as an engineering manager.

00;32;11;20–00;32;43;01
Rafna Bash
So till then I’m just a team member just going along and attending the meeting and listening to what my managers are saying and, and work according to the flow. But I never attempted to talk or I didn’t feel like I should be talking about something that comes to my mind. That’s not things in our workplace. So it’s always like taken effort to talk in front of others.

00;32;43;04–00;33;15;08
Rafna Bash
So that’s something, you know, it’s not practice in the work environment. And now when you know, so much experience and so much knowledge and I wanted to share it when it comes to it, then then that that public skills, public speaking skills like that, I stand in that with that skill. Then it is to get tested and it’s it’s you know, I remember that I used to have this, you know, I used to have the skills and I never policies.

00;33;15;08–00;33;48;20
Rafna Bash
It’s there in me but I never promised it and I would never brought that are used it in a way that I wanted to use it as my skill and give that said, the knowledge and experience that I have and then that’s so so you know, one thing that when I meant other women and tech people like don’t wait for opportunity to come and see, you know, you find an opportunity, speak your mind.

00;33;48;22–00;34;17;01
Rafna Bash
That’s that’s reminds me of like how I got into engineering manager leadership or is also like when I started speaking up, I was like invisible team member in the team. But I never spoke up and never said anything. You know, that comes to my mind only when there is my team meeting and when me in that idea phase, there’s all these people talking around across the room and giving more.

00;34;17;01–00;34;42;24
Rafna Bash
I’ll either I will be voting for. I think that this would be a good idea to include in the in our in our connector I that’s the only thing that what I use my voice to see something in the team but I never encourage okay you should talk about it what what do you what do you think that my manager member and great me Do not like me, but like there was that there wasn’t that something?

00;34;42;25–00;35;11;14
Rafna Bash
Everyone talk about something and then you decide the floor delegations. Everything happens in that way that I never thought about. Like, you know, I should be saying something about this, even though I feel like, you know, it’s probably this is not a good idea. Maybe like doing this could be going there. That could be the best way. I mean, I, I never thought that I have to speak about it.

00;35;11;17–00;35;36;28
Rafna Bash
And so when, you know, when others when I’m in casual breaks and everything else, do you think that when I ask about like and I have this idea, do you think that, you know, during the meeting this happened? And then they said, why didn’t you say it like, I don’t think that I have just spoke. And those like always talking like, you know, cross talking would be an appropriate analysis.

00;35;36;28–00;36;10;29
Rafna Bash
So in our workplace we are not thought to like person that thing. And I thought to speak up and improvise and just, you know, talk about something, not just the architectural design meetings, but all about like how the direction the team is going in the performance meeting. Right. You know, performance in meetings also, listen to what are your manager saying and then that’s it.

00;36;11;02–00;36;54;20
Rafna Bash
That’s it. And then they ask about like, do you have something to say about it? I would say, okay, I’ll improve what I wanted to improve. That’s the only thing that we take. And never ask about. Gave me an hour. How? What if I take some, some initiative on something that I think would be nice to our team or something, you know, never encouraged and backed me to speak up in the team or and let me things and press topic so that also decreased you know that also impacted that skill to be developed and it’s now I’m taking an upward I think like most of all of people who work in that industry other than

00;36;54;20–00;37;47;20
Rafna Bash
those same and of team development team most people like there’s no opportunity to talk or there’s no need for talking like that. We are giving in. We have our or instructions are welcome hard work for the tasks assigned to us, just work on it. So that’s the most common attitude. So it’s never it’s hard to understand, like whether I have that skipped so it’s that identifying whether you have that skill or not and whether that’s a skill that need to be, you know, polished and and improved and used in the public space is it’s like it’s an unidentifiable skill.

00;37;47;20–00;38;33;05
Rafna Bash
And inside everyone and it’s like depending on personality is up, the range of that skill will be different. But I think that’s where we are lacking of like that’s why like we I’m seeing more of our community have events that focused on doing events like talk about a topic or something like salary negotiation, how to do that, how do we have to do it, navigate to get a promotion we never ask for because that’s not that from the nature of that work culture that we should talk about something that we want.

00;38;33;07–00;39;04;04
Rafna Bash
So now there are so many communities are encouraging that, like you should be talking about your career growth, be talking about your goals, career goals. This should be talking about methods based measures to get that going, to achieve that, get involved. That’s what now we are encouraging everyone to do it. That’s now that everyone is realizing whether each and everyone has that skill in them to whether it should be a victim.

00;39;04;04–00;39;44;23
Rafna Bash
And you said like that. So yeah. So I’m realizing that skill in me that’s like sleeping and me and, and how to break it up and leave, you know that’s I and use it for the good of our community. So yeah so but, but it’s no, I’m into more, into that leadership boards and this I myself feel like I should be I should be talking about my experience, I should be talking about my knowledge and give that guidance to the people who would listen to me.

00;39;45;00–00;40;09;23
Rafna Bash
And so that is now encouraging, guiding me to just don’t, you know, don’t listen to my fears or anxiety and just go for it. People will love it. People would love it. So that’s always that for different people in terms of like what we’re listening to of will have that sense when taking that risk. I mean, I’ve been doing that for a long time.

00;40;09;23–00;40;55;11
Rafna Bash
So take that risk and, and do it. And that will be always said to see people. I mean, 50% of audience that loves to take you to have something to take away from my talk and they will learn something on that day. So that’s that’s a positive spin I’m I’m I’m taking now when it comes to like attempting to have a conference dog or a presentation on a stage, that’s a positive spin that I’m putting on on my fear and anxiety thing that, you know, I don’t care what I have identified, I need to practice well and practice makes things more perfect.

00;40;55;11–00;41;05;24
Rafna Bash
So. So yeah, so I am more interested in doing more talks than before so I feel like I’m improved.

00;41;05;24–00;41;30;26
Philippa Burgess
So I love that. I think that a couple of things. I mean, I took a voice class and I because I always had it, I don’t know how to say I was like, well, I’ve never been trained in singing, so maybe if I took and I loved the the teacher was the biggest take takeaways were breathe breathing is key smile like the audience hears it They in your voice, your smile.

00;41;30;29–00;41;31;20
Rafna Bash
Yeah.

00;41;31;22–00;41;54;12
Philippa Burgess
And the third one was just love your audience. If you show up with love for your audience, they will feel that. And that love shows up as a respect. That love shows up as passion, enthusiasm. Just, you know, just that that you care about them. And then another friend of mine did a Ph.D., actually in a steam high self esteem and low self esteem.

00;41;54;16–00;42;20;27
Philippa Burgess
And what she found is a high self esteem person will go to an event, see the speaker, take away whatever they can get from it, and be very thankful and very respectful and move on with their lives. A low self esteem person attacks. They’re the ones who will criticize and like come up with the complaint and be like and not kind of get what was the value that was being given to them, but find reasons to like knock people down to make themselves feel better.

00;42;20;29–00;42;53;25
Rafna Bash
So I like how getting critiques because, you know, it’s always been to understand that what I need to improve, I might have not thought about. I’m, you know, whether I’m presenting in a content way, they’re saying they didn’t sound so confident. So then I think yeah I mean I, I’m pretty sure about what I was sending, but it didn’t sound it to me because I have this, you know, I need to make sure that I’m sounding confident because I know the topic.

00;42;53;26–00;43;16;07
Rafna Bash
I’m confident about it. But it’s not sounds as a as an and I know the reason, so I need to work on it. So I always like I like getting so so many people will see that, you know, having a negative feedback is like, you know, that’s discouraging. But for me it’s always an encouraging thing because I didn’t know what’s my fault in, in, in presenting.

00;43;16;07–00;43;39;01
Rafna Bash
I felt afraid. And it’s always me thinking that I’m glad that I’m doing a great something and talking about as they come in. But if I don’t get a feedback, I still think that that would it be for looking at our mistakes and holes and probably like, you know, not research. Well, I don’t know. Like, you know, there will be so many aspects of it.

00;43;39;06–00;44;08;05
Rafna Bash
People are different. People have different opinions, different point of view. I make about that as a human being that we all have different views on a single thing. So every each and every single thing equal, if we are going to sit and talk about it, everyone has different perspective on that, on that topic. So I like about getting that negative feedback to Boston, the same greeting so that I, you know, I can go on.

00;44;08;08–00;44;32;23
Philippa Burgess
I would refer to it as constructive criticism versus negative feedback. Negative feedback is someone saying, I didn’t enjoy that because I have issues or I’m having a bad day. It’s really nothing to do with you. They’re projecting and in the Internet world you’ll lots of that all the time. That’s their problem, not yours. There’s nothing constructive that you can really get out of that particular comments.

00;44;32;26–00;44;55;05
Philippa Burgess
They’re putting their energy somewhere that it doesn’t belong. Constructive criticism is the ones that you resonate with. They’ll something to you. And you should have that idea of like, yeah, you know what? I hadn’t really thought about that time, but of course that makes so much sense that I want to integrate. And usually assertive criticism is in Toastmasters.

00;44;55;05–00;45;00;27
Philippa Burgess
The sandwich you did this great, you could do this better, but don’t forget, you’re still great. Keep going.

00;45;00;29–00;45;01;22
Rafna Bash
Yes.

00;45;01;25–00;45;18;22
Philippa Burgess
So that’s how in how we deliver our criticism or constructive criticism, it should be constructive, loving, supportive and encouraging person to keep going and keep getting better and that they should resonate with the things you’ve said they sort of like. Yeah, I saw that, too.

00;45;18;24–00;45;44;17
Rafna Bash
Yes, that’s that’s yeah, constructive feedback is something, something that helps to improve next time. And also like it’s probably not the angle I thought of delivering so it’s a lot about but I do right. I think about our topic about something that’s great, but when I deliberate it should be the same. We should have the same tone, right?

00;45;44;18–00;46;08;16
Rafna Bash
So that I’m not my my mother is not English. So whenever I talk about something, I think in my mother and then my brain translate into English, and then my brain translates into like that. So. So there’s a lot of process when it comes out of the mouth. It’s not a process that happens to be time to get it right.

00;46;08;16–00;46;36;16
Rafna Bash
So it’s it won’t always work in the way that I want to do. So it’s it’s always a learning point for me, like how to work on my communication skills, my English accent, my thought process, everything from so that, you know, so it’s seven words when I use it in a way I realize that took from that negative feedback that it offends other people because it’s not, it’s not supposed to seem that way.

00;46;36;19–00;47;03;26
Rafna Bash
So seven words probably, you know, when I see that, it’s not clear. Probably, you know, that’s the thing I said some other different words and and that makes them offensive. So, you know, I kind of so in that way, you know, it helps me to information like, you know, how I use that and it’s everything that’s that’s one thing I enjoy about getting feedback.

00;47;03;27–00;47;28;26
Rafna Bash
It’s like, you know, you tell me what’s wrong and I’m willing to accept it and I’m willing to work on it even like I pulls down my expressions, my words, my accent, everything implodes and and not just my thought process, but also how I behave, how I stand, I smile, how my hair things are, all those things, right?

00;47;28;29–00;48;01;06
Rafna Bash
So I take all those things in, you know, like all of them, even if it’s it feels so negative. It’s not talking about my content. It’s about me and how my expressions are. My real fog is not enjoyable for another person. So about like how that affects if one person have it and there will be others who also might have this the same way that they about it.

00;48;01;06–00;48;24;27
Rafna Bash
So how to avoid it? I didn’t blow myself. So that’s one way I think about like all this criticism. But I guess to make sure that I’m improving, I’m learning whenever I do something, I’m getting a feedback and I take it that’s one way. Yeah, Sometimes it’s not like I’m not an agent, so it’s like sometimes it gets into the hot saying that, I spend as much time, I practice day.

00;48;24;29–00;48;59;15
Rafna Bash
I did all these things to make sure that I’m not going wrong and I get all this. I feel I feel sad sometimes and most of the time, so sometimes, most of the time I feel bad. But it’s for one or 2 minutes. And then I think that like, why it happened, You know, they’re saying about this, so I should work on my accent, I should work on making myself clear, talking clear and or a smiling has to understand, go through that translation process.

00;48;59;15–00;49;28;16
Rafna Bash
I might not smile. So, you know, making sure that, you know, when all this happened became in my brain. I should smile. So all those things, you know, it’s all about it’s like, yeah, you know, you need to train your brain to behave in a certain way, in a certain say, said things, you know. So it comes to that like you need to clean a with the data that we’re providing and the output that wanted to get it and making it improved.

00;49;28;18–00;49;53;03
Rafna Bash
So yeah, so I remember in the beginning of our conversation we are talking about like whether the jobs were taken, the jobs were able to take over. So it’s not about I will take over. I need someone to always playing them to be him, and that can be in certain situations and so a certain time and all those things.

00;49;53;03–00;50;28;12
Rafna Bash
So it’s always making our job easy as a technology person. It makes our job easy in a way that we train them to do some of the some of the things for us, like, you know, when we see a problem that’s happening, I need a code that works to solve this problem in Python. Then I is generating that code for us and all we need to do is take that code and improve and change it in the way that we wanted to work for all the things that we wanted to work and add more coded to it.

00;50;28;18–00;51;00;08
Rafna Bash
So yeah, I will make our jobs much more easier than what we are doing right now. From my experience ten years before, without a I coding, a simple program would take like hundreds of codes. Now, with all the plug ins, it will take like 1010 lines of code. So that’s a difference without AA. So I will make that job more easier instead of taking over.

00;51;00;08–00;51;22;21
Rafna Bash
So the thing is like we need to use it effectively to make that happen, to help us make our jobs easier in that way. So I was saying that it’s going to take over and we are going to be controlled by robots.

00;51;22;23–00;51;33;00
Philippa Burgess
I will think is when I give a prompt to barter shop CBT that they don’t like. They’ll simply say I’m an animal model and I don’t this is this is not I don’t I don’t do this.

00;51;33;02–00;51;33;26
Rafna Bash
Yeah.

00;51;33;28–00;51;54;01
Philippa Burgess
So I think the thing is, as humans, we have emotions and we have this sort of if you’re integrating feedback positive, negative, but especially if it feels negative, it feels like hurtful in any way. I think the key is not to have that slow us down, just to be as robotic as okay, I can consider that I can work towards that.

00;51;54;04–00;52;10;25
Philippa Burgess
But I’m still a human being. I’m still I still am who I am. And then I’m going to continue going forward and not have any of that slow us down because, yeah, Barton shot TV. That doesn’t slow them down. You can come right back with the next question. But they were very, very clear about their boundaries and.

00;52;10;25–00;52;12;10
Rafna Bash
Sometimes they spit.

00;52;12;10–00;52;15;21
Philippa Burgess
Out nonsense.

00;52;15;24–00;52;39;18
Rafna Bash
That’s right. I mean, so I’ve seen the you know, in the code itself, like many, when they downgrade from Google, it’s a boilerplate Google. It’s not that code is not working in the exactly the way that we want it. We need to tweak it to make sure that it is working in the way it’s giving, though. It’s working and it’s functioning as it’s supposed to.

00;52;39;20–00;53;10;14
Rafna Bash
But it is giving a boilerplate example of that. Maybe this should work in this way if we are doing this scenario, but if we wanted to use it in our own product or in our development process like it should be, we should be tweaking it, We get a boilerplate and we, you know, it’s helpful. We don’t have to write, spend time in writing all of those sentences, and then you take it to make sure that it’s working in the way that we want it.

00;53;10;14–00;53;59;29
Rafna Bash
It’s not making another, you know, making less spending like our self working, trying to writing it down and changing it and all of that. So just it in that way it’s just thinking bad about it is giving like you know, all it’s the all the best points that an abortion charity is giving us. We should not be taking it as like something that’s that’s given and using it Passages It’s like we should use our analogy to use our brain to, as you said, the emotions and everything combine and see that this is this is what we want.

00;54;00;08–00;54;31;25
Rafna Bash
We should change it and then use it in the appropriate way. So that’s, that’s what it’s, it’s, it’s a it’s a human made machine. Human made language, a human made model that’s working according to our prompts. It doesn’t have the context, full context or the atmosphere or the environment. There are reasons to give us the exact answer or response that we want it.

00;54;31;27–00;54;52;24
Rafna Bash
We we are the person who knows about it. What’s information? Are we in the context of why we are asking this question and all those things are only known to us, doesn’t it just gives that boilerplate. So saying that’s okay if you’re asking me appropriately, this is some of the priorities that I have in my store. So I’m going to give you that.

00;54;52;26–00;55;16;12
Rafna Bash
This is this is what I want. I want some some romance with that. Then I want someone. That’s not why that in our comm that’s not that’s not the mood that I am in and it doesn’t know. So it’s like using the parties that I got and saying that this is my most romantic poetry, but it might not work for the situation.

00;55;16;12–00;55;54;15
Rafna Bash
So it’s, it’s about like how we use the AI tools. It’s important we, we have that logical reasoning, critical thinking ability as a human being. So we need to use those powers to understand what we are getting from AI tools and use it appropriately. So that’s but some of the things that I always tell them. And when we talk about our chats about how AI is dating or those kind of discussions, I always talk about these things.

00;55;54;15–00;56;20;21
Rafna Bash
This is what humans are good at, critical thinking, decision making, logical reasoning. It doesn’t have that. It has to meet in it based on the data that detects and store. It’s and how we train them. That much context is available to them. But it’s not they’re not aware of the whole situation that we are in for asking that question.

00;56;20;23–00;56;50;09
Rafna Bash
So it’s us who needs to use it and not in the way that’s appropriate or that’s effective for that situation. I would say I mean it. Anyone can learn technology. So it’s not like technology’s hard to do of getting a job in. Technology is not hard, hard thing. It’s impossible. But understand a part where we wanted to take it.

00;56;50;11–00;57;20;27
Rafna Bash
I have seen people who, because of all the planning and wise and social media chats and everything they are, they think that technology is a cool place and jump into it. And then the reality of it is different. So and then they are in a position where they are finding its challenging place to survive on. I would say you have a plan.

00;57;20;29–00;57;56;29
Rafna Bash
Technology is not going anywhere. It’s improving. Every day we are getting more and more. It’s evolving. So it’s good to have a take out. Jason all that knowledge in what our jobs and no one is choosing to do. And so especially like women there’s a lot of things that we can do now with daily life if we have some knowledge of technology, how we are using that information, how we are using the data, how we are using all the devices in our homes are smart devices.

00;57;56;29–00;58;29;24
Rafna Bash
So how we are using those devices to help ourselves and our data ask So you are understanding how a knowledge in technology is important in the in this world, in this time and in the future too. So everyone should have some sort of knowledge now and something related technology that would be helpful in their daily task or career that they are choosing to.

00;58;29;27–00;59;09;02
Rafna Bash
It is a good path to move forward. So yes, and it’s important because everything is now related to technology about what are we are doing. It’s related to technology like in medical, in space and mentally defense, governmental procedure. If they want, is is adding on to the technology, different types of technology. So that’s included there. So it’s always better to have in future to us human people that we are improving ourselves.

00;59;09;05–00;59;41;28
Rafna Bash
It’s always have a some sort of technology knowledge to make it useful in your daily task. And it’s always comes in the next generation also has to have that awareness of like in building. So our curriculum doesn’t include that coding or technology history in the in their curriculum. So they should be taught in that way and they are ready for the next upcoming events that’s happening when we are what we are building too.

00;59;41;29–00;59;54;13
Rafna Bash
So next generation also have several minutes of like how this can be informed in the future and how they can choose. They have that option to choose because they have the knowledge.