‘We’ve been in opposition for a long time and we’ve learnt our lessons’: 23 min with Greg Warren
We talked with the Labor MP for Campbelltown about being in Opposition and where NSW Labor stands on the big issues.
Sebastian LC: Firstly, would you like to tell me a little bit about yourself?
Greg: So, my name is Greg. I’m the member for Campbelltown, in my second term.
I’m the shadow minister for local government, veterans and Western Sydney.
Yeah, I love my job. I think it’s a privilege to represent people. That means they have their faith and trust in you, to do the best for them, to try and make their day a bit better tomorrow than what it is today.
It’s a true privilege. I enjoy campaigns, it’s a challenge of ideas and it gives people choices and options and I think that’s very much what this election is about.
S: You’ve lived in Campbelltown since your discharge from the military over 20 years ago. What initially appealed to you about the area and how do you think Campbelltown has changed since you first arrived?
G: Well, I was born and raised in Dubbo before I joined the army and obviously I relocated and all different places around.
I met my fiancé and then wife. We got married in Campbelltown. Our boys were born in Campbelltown.
I guess what attracted me to Campbelltown most was the people. It reminded me of where I grew up in Dubbo. The culture, the environment, the laid-back atmosphere, the people, kind, caring people, pretty down to earth, pretty laid back. The location of Campbelltown being close to the Illawarra and the beaches, whilst also not being too far away from the city, the affordability of the area. But without any doubt, it was the people in Campbelltown and the way we all are.
S: You’ve engaged in a lot of lines of work throughout your career, as you said, the army, and also truck driving and a lot of locally-focused organisations like the Chamber of Commerce in Campbelltown. So, how do you think those experiences have shaped your understanding of the community and the wider world?
G: It gave me a greater understanding, and you’re right — I had very diverse career before I entered the Parliament.
I left school at Year Ten. I was in the army. I was in the Royal Australian Infantry Corps, and then I got injured while I was in the army, so I went to the Royal Australian Corps of Transport and then moving to Campbelltown, having kids, having a mortgage, wanting to do further studies. So I ended up doing my MBA. That got me involved. Right from being a truck driver around with coal trucks and other kind of truck companies into administration, and then ultimately leading me to a management role within local businesses.
It gave me a good, I guess, broad understanding as to the levels of economies, the level of businesses, and I guess industry as well.
S: How do you think those experiences and as well as other motivations lead to your decision to enter politics first at the local level and then the transition to state Parliament afterwards?
G: Well, yeah, it gave me a broader understanding, I feel — being able to relate and be relatable is something so important for any elected representative. It also gave me an understanding what actually really matters: what are the issues confronting local families and workers, our young people, our seniors on a day-to-day basis?
The things that they’re talking about at the dinner table, at the shopping center, the coffee shops, the pubs and all those kind of things. Whether it’s around cost of living, the environment, affordability, security for the future, all those kind of things, so it gave me that opportunity, I guess, to relate to driving a truck down the Appin Road carting coal at 10:00 at night.
And then from there, sitting in an office or working in a leadership role, being able to relate to those truckers and those workers, as well as understanding the importance of business fundamentals and where that business and where you fit within an economy, where you fit within a community, indeed a society.
Having that capacity to have that understanding also enhanced my role and responsibility, not only as someone in community, whether it’s working in business or driving a truck, but in a leadership role, but particularly in the Parliament and in my elected roles as well.
S: We’d like to ask you about some issues that we see as quite prominent this election. Firstly, we think climate change and loss of biodiversity are issues which are increasingly being felt at home. What actions would a Labor government take to tackle these dual environmental issues?
G: Well, we of course want to have a more progressive and proactive approach to climate change which I think is directly relatable to energy prices.
Broadly, the privatisation of our energy assets is something that I think we’re all feeling the pinch now from.
We’ve announced a whole raft of things from rebates and then financial support. And the NSW Energy Security Corporation to bring all of that together.
How do we invest into the new technologies of the future? What can we do to restrict or bring down energy prices for local families and businesses whilst in the interim providing them with financial support is something so important? But I think the corporation itself and I think why it’s such a good thing is because we hear a lot of conversations and we all believe in it and we all say ‘yeah that’s great’, but how do we do it? I believe our establishment of that corporation will provide us with the mechanisms to do that.
S: As you touched on before, the rising cost of living is consistently being named in polls as the top issue for voters. So what among as well as what you’ve already said, do you think is a solution to this?
G: Well, I think our stamp duty position is something so important. When we look at affordability, when we talk about affordability, I think it’s twofold, because you’ve got again and again, reflecting back to when we first bought, like in the MacArthur region and lived in Campbelltown, first and foremost was, we’re saving for a home, how do we get into that home?
But to a second fold to that, we’re at a stage now where people are working out how they can afford their groceries, their fuel, how they get to and from work.
When they do get to work, do they have to pay for parking and things like that. So we’ve got that great Australian dream that was to own your own home one day. But some people rent and accept they want to rent and that’s a matter of choice.
But it all comes back down to affordability: a fair go for renters. So we don’t see that rental market get bargained off, that sees an inflation of rent prices. But I think having the attention and the political will to address affordability and do everything we can, both in the interim, but then have a plan in the longer term.
And very much this election is about– we’re making announcements, what we’ll do if we win government, this is what we will do, which Chris Minns and my other shadow ministerial colleagues and candidates and colleagues all around New South Wales are talking about. But I think the most important thing is having that understanding as to the seriousness of the issues, how it’s affecting people’s livelihoods, their lifestyle, their families, that certainty and security for the future, but whilst also having some sensible, pragmatic and productive positions in place that provide the outcomes.
And I come back to stamp duty because that is a huge cost to many families and would make a difference as well. Boosting the rental supply out in our regions and around housing supply, particularly in the West and the Southwest, has been somewhat limited. We all want to live in a house, whether we rent it or buy it. That’s what we all want to do.
And with the shortfall of supply, it does affect the market. It inflates it whether you’re buying or renting. So getting the supply issue right, so it’s really not a one size policy that suits all. There’s a whole number of factors I think, that do affect affordability. I think logistics, when it comes to groceries, the essential commodity market, both the essential and the nonessential commodity market, is a daily reality for people and providing them with that opportunity to have that more affordable lifestyle. And we of course want to see people have a good livelihood and a good lifestyle, but affordability goes down to the root cause of that. And without any doubt, rent is huge.
Fuel prices are going up, energy is going up. We’ve got that package we talked about before in terms of energy supply. But getting the housing market, whether it’s for purchases or renting, is something that it has to be addressed. That’s why we put some sensible provisions in place with those announcements.
But that’s only the first step. We understand that we can do and say that now we’re leading into the election, if we’re elected, we can do that. But it’s not going to be something that’s fixed straight away overnight. It’s going to be something that we have to give the focus and attention it needs and deserves, and that will be an ongoing process.
S: On housing affordability, I think Campbelltown is the electorate with the fourth highest number of kind of social housing units. Does Labor have any policy to increase social housing construction? Is that part of the solution to increasing supply of housing?
G: Yeah, and that’s exactly right. That’s why we direct the Greater Sydney Commission to review and rebalance the population and housing growth that’s now being set by the government.
There had been an imbalance in the past which has seen that– we saw the 70–30 mix with social and public housing. And you’re right with Campbelltown, and I’ll give you a real-life experience which people watching this would probably be aware, but when they when they sent the bulldozers into Airds and Claymore and Ambervale and those other areas, that displaced so many families, I mean, it wasn’t just a matter of rebuilding these homes or anything. We lost a whole heap of them. But then a lot of it just got sold off to the private sector, which they’re profiting from. We believe getting those profits and investing back into social housing and the housing market is the key forward. But again, it’s been twelve years of this happening. It’s not a short road to get back to that rebalance, but having that balance where we’re seeing investment back in social housing will directly assist affordability. But in reality, after you’ve had twelve years of it, getting it fixed overnight will be a challenge. But what we are committed to do overnight is give it our priority attention.
S: So, onto another issue. Gambling reform has been a particularly contentious issue in the lead up to this election. What does Labor propose to help solve this issue?
G: Well, we want to see– we’ve been very clear on addressing the issue.
We acknowledge it, it is a problem, we can’t ignore it, we have to do something about it, but we think we have to do it sensibly as well. Having the trial of the card is absolutely vital. The reason is we have to find out if it works or it doesn’t work. It may not work. So if you roll it out, say, no, this is what we’re doing and it doesn’t work– very hard, it may have an adverse effect, very hard to rewind.
It not only may not have an adverse effect, it may have a negative effect as well. So taking a more sensible approach is the position that we’ve taken a ban on all external gaming related signage I think is a positive. Harm- minimisation programs through a 100 million-dollar fund. The introduction of responsible gaming officers is another thing we’ve said, and of course expanded the mandatory gaming cashless gaming trial introduces cash input limits as well.
So, we think they’re sensible steps to see what works and what doesn’t work. We are committed to addressing this issue, which does have a very serious effect in so many ways on the livelihoods of local families, workers and those who do have a gambling addiction.
But when you look at gambling as well, I mean, I don’t gamble, not for any kind of ideological reason or anything like that. Just when I go to the pub or the club with my family and loved ones, I’d rather sit down and have a chat and talk about the week or football or what’s going on with my kids, how’s work, how’s uni or my missus, how’s things going. I’d rather do that than go and gamble, but I bet once a year.
So, I was actually born on Melbourne Cup day, so I always bet on Melbourne Cup day. I really never know what I’m doing. But I got the Tab app because I couldn’t get to the pub to go and put a bet on this one time. So I got a Tab app and I put like $50 on each way on this horse. So I’ve still got the app. But, you know, every Friday afternoon I get an advert to try and tempt me into gambling every time.
So I think it’s broader than just pokies, Sebastian. I think there is a far broader conversation needed. That’s why we’re taking a sensible step to make sure measures we put in place can be tested. And when I say tested, what works, what doesn’t work, and then we can implement what does work and then not implement what doesn’t work. So we don’t have an adverse effect on industry, but whilst also providing problem gamblers and those with gambling addictions, with the support that they need.
S: So trying to get a holistic approach, kind of trying to get as much as possible.
G: Yeah, we do. We have very much a sensible holistic approach because it’s really not being done anywhere else. So it’s got to be something that we have to be careful about because there is an entire industry out there that employs a lot of people.
We have to be very mindful of that. And whatever we do implement, we want to make sure that we don’t impact the livelihoods of those families and work as well. Yes, we need to address problem gambling. We do need to have steps in place. But I think having, like you say, a holistic approach as to the issue, the causes, the effects, the adversities that may create, but most importantly, getting it right. And I think having a trial makes sure that we can do that into the longer term.
S: Last year, Violet Coco became the first person to be jailed under the new anti-protest law, blocking traffic as part of a Fireproof Australia protest. These laws had the support of both the government and the opposition. So, what are your views on these laws and more generally, on the right to peaceful protests?
G: Well, look, I generally in principle support the right to peacefully protest, as you said, like, I was in the army, and then I worked at Sydney Airport, and I was an aircraft refueler when Ansett went broke, and I was a union delegate with the Transport Workers Union as well, so we protested against what transpired and then protested against what was happening to those workers and their families.
So I peacefully protested before myself. So yeah, I certainly do. And the legislation you’re talking about, yes, we had a partisan position on that, I supported the position at that time. I think people being able to peacefully protest is something so important.
But the reality is, too, sometimes there’s those that don’t peacefully protest mate. I think that’s a lot of the problem. So when we see climate rallies, for example, when we see other rallies, whether it’s been around the social issues and the legislative change, like when we saw with marriage equality, we saw a lot of people peacefully protesting, which I certainly welcome and
I think is a beautiful thing, and it’s something so important with anxiety. But as you know, or anyone else who’s been a peaceful protester, there are those that actually don’t. So having mechanisms to apprehend that I think is really important because otherwise people won’t be able to peacefully protest, and they’ll live in silence. And that’s the thing that probably concerned me the most, to be honest.
S: I think you specifically have previously criticised the incumbent state government for an ‘eagerness to sell off public assets’. So, how important do you think privatisation is for this election, and what does Labor intend to do in regards to public asset sales?
G: It’s vital. Going back to some of the things we’ve talked about, whether it’s been in energy, whether it’s been in affordability, whether it’s been taking a more progressive approach to new technologies. The assets that have been sold are up in to towards $100 billion. A lot of those were revenue raising assets. What that means is the government has sold off what is public assets: that’s yours, mine, our mates, our families. They’re not the government’s, whoever’s in government, but this government took it upon themselves to go and sell them, to ultimately build projects, invest in infrastructure. And we all want that. We’ve all seen it. But we’ve always invested in resources and infrastructure before all the sell offs. It does directly affect affordability, particularly when you look at energy. I mean, the government’s refusal to say they’ll sell off Sydney Water, I won’t get into the politics of all that. But, I mean, the record is clear with the Coalition government. They believe in selling off public assets to the private sector, whether it’s a toll road. I’ll give you a more local example. They use taxpayers’ money to build a car park at Campbelltown Hospital so that the private sector can profit from it just does not make sense. I mean, you’ve got people who are working at that hospital, their patients, their carers, their loved ones. They’re taxpayers. Their taxes are paid for that car park. So I philosophically and ideologically am against it, but I’m vehemently politically against it, and, well, it must stop. There are serious economic effects. We know that. That has been proven time and time again. So my opposition to privatisation has never changed and will never change. And that is the position of Chris Minns and the opposition as well.
S: Awesome. So that’s all for the issues that we’ve outlined, are there any other issues that are a priority for you and the community of Campbelltown for this election?
G: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve got the high-level issues that we talked about, but more locally, we need to see that investment in the Appin Road. We need to see investments invested back into our city and our region. I mean, Campbelltown is the regional city for Macarthur, indeed, the gateway to the Southwest. We have very serious shortfall in nurses, clinicians and physicians that’s affecting their capacity at Campbelltown Hospital. Our community and I join with them to fight for the upgrade of Campbelltown Hospital. The reality is, it’s half empty because we are bleeding staff because they’re overworked. We also can’t get enough teachers to educate our children. And I touch on the wage cap debate as well. The conservative side of politics are going to say, oh, we’ll see this– people getting wage rises and they’re blowing out, and we want to do this. No, we don’t. We just don’t think there should be a cap. And when we say, don’t have a cap, why can’t they go and negotiate a wage increase just like anyone else? Why should they be capped? And I mean, when you’ve got senior bureaucrats in the Premier’s own department who got like 200% pay rises, new jobs, some of these people are in the hundreds and thousands of dollars a year, are created in this government’s own departments. Well, good luck to them. I don’t knock anyone for trying to earn a dollar or doing well, but the reality is, why should those frontline workers and other workers have this cap put on them that restricts them from trying to negotiate a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work, which they deserve? That might be one and a half percent, 2%, two and a half, 3%. Who knows? But why should they be restricted where others aren’t? I guess that’s the whole point of the story, mate.
S: And what are your views on the current state of the Labor election campaign?
G: I think we’ve run a very sensible, progressive and pragmatic campaign.
Chris Minns and the leadership and all my shadow ministerial colleagues are not turning up and saying things for the sake of getting elected.
Whatever we say and do is consistent with taking steps towards addressing the many issues that we have after twelve years of the Coalition government.
We’re not misleading people. We’ve been in opposition for a long time and we’ve learned our lessons and we know how important it is to be honest and upfront with local communities, with workers and with businesses. Telling them what we can do based on the issues they confront every day, I think is resonating.
And I think it’s the right thing to do because I believe that the electorates, and indeed the electorate of New South Wales, but most importantly, the families, businesses, our students, our workers, our mums and dads, they want to see real solutions, but they also want the solutions to be honest, realistic and achievable. And I think that’s the outline of our campaign.
S: Now onto slightly more trivial questions. Has anything of note, anything particularly interesting or funny happened on your campaign trails or this campaign in particular?
G: Yeah, it’s funny. I’ve been on pre-poll and there was someone volunteering, (which I always respect, all volunteers) coming out and saying some of the most rhetorical and ridiculous things, but just so frankly, untrue, things like, “we’re going to be invaded”, or “we’re going to provide women with more rights”. God forbid! God forbid that we go and have an equal society where everyone has fair rights. Another one was “they want to give all women pay rises but freeze men’s wages!”. And I never interact with that because something’s only as relevant as the relevance you give it. But that’s probably been the most amusing, yet disappointing as well.
S: And outside of political life, when you’re not really hard at work campaigning and advocating for your community, what sort of hobbies do you enjoy in your spare time?
G: I love bushwalking, I love getting down into the Dharawal National Park. I’ve got a strong personal interest in Aboriginal history, given my own Aboriginal heritage as well. I really enjoy the arts, both at the opera or even just going to the art gallery. But most of all, I enjoy just spending time with my family, my children and my missus and my mum and dad when I get to see them. It’s something I really value and cherish, so they’re very special to me, like I know everyone’s family is and you got to manage your time, so I always love to manage my time and spend it with them, generally just chilling out. I love to cook as well, so cooking a nice meal and I believe that dinner time is family time as well, where you can sit down together and stop and pause and “how’s your week been going” and “what have you been doing, what’s going on in your world?” I get those traditional kinds of things is what I really like to do. I love the beach as well, love to swim anything around. Nature is something I really enjoy.
S: Thank you so much! That’s all the questions I had. Was there anything else you wanted to comment on?
G: I’m very impressed how many young people are actually more engaged these days in the issues and not just the populist fringe-dwelling rubbish that you hear. They actually want to dig down and find out what’s being done now, but they’re not short sighted, they’re looking to the future and hearing those future plans and taking a legitimate interest. And that really impresses me, mate, because, to be honest, I turned 50 this year, when 30 years ago, that wasn’t something that was really thought or talked about from my generation at that age. But not saying that’s everyone, because I certainly was engaged and interested, but there is, without any doubt made a lot more young people taking more interest today, and I find that very heart-warming.
S: Thanks so much for your time.
G: Thank you.
