A Conversation with Tan Sri Datuk Amar Leo Moggie
What was it like to have been a politician in the early days of Malaysia? A politician (or, as he would say, a former politician) who can enlighten us on the subject is Tan Sri Leo Moggie. Tan Sri is the Chairman of TNB and holds the record as its longest-serving non-Executive Chairman, having served since 2004. Prior to this corporate position, he held several portfolios in government as Local Government Minister, Welfare Services Minister, Minister of Works, Energy, Telecommunications and Posts and the Minister of Communications and Multimedia.
An Iban, Tan Sri has come a long way from his humble beginnings in Kanowit, Sarawak, where his family cultivated hill paddy. He credits education as the biggest factor that enabled him to succeed. His background, education, and observations of Sarawak politics along with some interesting anecdotes were among the subjects discussed during the three-hour long conversation we had with Tan Sri in June 2015. This conversation will be published under our Leadership Conversations series. The audio excerpts of Tan Sri’s responses are online on our website.
In the meantime, we produce excerpts from that dialogue, highlighting Tan Sri’s entry into politics and his experience under two different Prime Ministers.
On his entry into politics as an Opposition candidate
I did not set out to be a politician. I had always been interested in current affairs, history and politics. In the late ’60s and early ’70s, after Sarawak became part and parcel of the Malaysian Federation, the leaders from the rural community, particularly the Iban and Dayak groups, were unhappy about being part of Malaysia. Before the formation of Malaysia, they had been taken to view FELDA developments in the Peninsular and were persuaded that similar developments will take place in Sarawak. So, they had high expectations. When the pace of development failed to match these expectations, they were disappointed. To them, the pace of development was not as rapid as they had expected it to be. Moreover, the community leaders felt that we were not yet ready for an effective role in government. We were not highly educated and so, we were wary that we would be dominated by other people. That was the background.
I was in the civil service at the time — I was the District Officer in Kapit, then I worked in the Chief Minister’s office in Kuching. Again, the Dayak and Iban civil servants felt that the civil service was discriminatory, in that Malay civil servants had a better chance of being promoted compared to non-Malays. These sentiments mushroomed especially among the Iban and the general Dayak communities. A few of us with university education discussed these issues among ourselves. The year was 1974.
When (Tun Datuk Patinggi) Rahman Ya’kub, who was Chief Minister, asked if I would stand for the coming elections under Barisan Nasional, I concluded that I could not. I wrote him a note which also said that if I were to stand, I would stand under the Opposition banner, Sarawak National Party (SNAP). Rahman Ya’kub, being the first-class experienced politician that he was, wrote back to say that he was disappointed but he wished me luck.
After that exchange, I decided to join politics and run for elections as a member of SNAP. I was among the first Iban to have a university degree. A friend of mine, Daniel Tajem, was the first Iban to have a legal degree. And another friend of mine who has passed away now, Dr Jawi Masing, was the first Iban to have a medical degree. The three of us decided we had better join politics; we joined the opposition party because SNAP was seen in those days to be the voice of the Dayak community. We had very idealistic ideas that we had roles to play and that we might be able to change things.
On Tun Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Temenggong Jugah, the Minister for Sarawak Affairs (1963–1974)
I was accompanying him one time on a visit to a particular longhouse. You will remember that before he became a Minister, he was a Penghulu first, then a Temenggong, and therefore he was a highly-respected community leader. When we visited this particular longhouse, the people still looked to him as a penghulu. They brought their small dispute to him for him to mediate. And Jugah being Jugah, he was quite a charismatic person, when he heard the two sides arguing with each other, he only said, “Why don’t you people keep on talking? I will go to the room and sleep. When you are ready with a resolution, call me back.” That stopped them. He knew their psychology. He knew how to keep them in line. He was well respected and had earned the trust of the people. Sometimes, you have to deal with very ordinary, simple matters, not high policy stuff. But even in cases like that, where it touches people directly, in order to solve it, you first need to earn people’s respect and trust.
On serving as a Federal Minister under Tun Hussein Onn and Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad
I’m fortunate in that I had the chance to work directly under Tun Hussein as well as Tun Dr. Mahathir. I only worked briefly with Tun Abdullah, from October 2003 until April 2004, but we had been colleagues in the Cabinet for a number of years when he was Foreign Minister. I owe a lot to Tun Hussein because he appointed me to the Cabinet.
Now, Tun Hussein was a very deliberate person. He was very careful and very meticulous, especially with regard to issues of a very sensitive nature, such as communal, ethnic, or racial issues. In cabinet, for such matters, he would probably ask individual Minsters to express their views before he made a decision. From that point of view, he was more like a Chairman. But his reputation of high integrity is definitely well deserved — I always looked up to him because of his integrity. His leadership style was more consultative and Ministers would have reasonable flexibility in managing their own ministry. His style was aligned to the classic British system of Parliamentary and Cabinet Government — “primus inter pares” (first among equals). However, once his mind was made up, he would stick to his decision. Because he was deliberate, people sometimes say that he was not quick enough. I don’t think that is true. I think he had to be very careful as we are a plural society.
Now (Tun) Mahathir, of course, was a very dynamic Prime Minister who wanted to get things done very quickly. He was very hands on in leadership. So, yes, his style differed from (Tun) Hussein’s who was much less hands-on. You know the story about how he (Tun Dr. Mahathir) carried a little book around and noted tasks to be done in it? It’s a true story. If the electric post was not straight, he would take note of that and bring it up in Cabinet. So he was very detailed. If you didn’t know your role as a Minister, or the portfolio you handled, you had better admit that straight out. If you bluffed, he would have his ways of finding out. He was very decisive as a leader. It did not mean you could not disagree but in principle, once a decision is made in Cabinet, it is also your decision. You can express your reservations before the decision is made but not after. He was very clear about that.
This article was first published in Perdana Magazine Issue 2014–2015.
