Interview with John McCain on the Flipside

Richard Martini
Jan 16, 2019 · 19 min read

This is an excerpt from our next book; “Backstage Pass to the Flipside; Talking to the Afterlife with Jennifer Shaffer” BOOK THREE. (It will be out sometime this year.)

Thumbs up.

This past week, during my filming a discussion with Jennifer (a medium who works with law enforcement on missing person cases) we got a “message from the flipside” that was a request to “pass along some information” to a person’s daughter.

I don’t know the daughter of this person, I didn’t know the father either, but I am going to post this information because well… a fellow on the flipside asked me to. He also said to Jennifer, “you remind me of my daughter.”

Jennifer Shaffer does look like his daughter.

This is a post for @MeghanMcCain daughter of #JohnMcCain. In light of her father making the request, I am going to post it on my website, as I can’t think of any other way for her to stumble across it. (Apologies to anyone this might offend, but if you follow this blog, or have read “Flipside” “It’s a Wonderful Afterlife,” “Hacking the Afterlife” or “Backstage Pass to the Flipside: Talking to the Afterlife with Jennifer Shaffer” they will understand the following “edited” transcript.)

Senator John McCain and daughter Meghan

Jennifer and I meet once a week to “talk to the flipside.” It’s casual, but I put our meetings on film. I set up a camera in the restaurant we normally go to, and on the way to meet her I’ll ask “aloud” for a few people to come forward. Sometimes she says their names instantly, sometimes it takes a few tries.

When Senator McCain had passed a couple of weeks earlier, I was curious if it was possible with talk to someone we had zero connection with. Generally we focus on people we have met, or folks on the flipside that our “group” has met during their lifetime. (My only connection to the Senator was interviewing his chief of staff as background for my script “Three For the Road” in the 1980’s. She spoke highly of him even then.)

Jennifer’s replies are in normal font, my questions are in italics.

Young John

Jennifer: I just got an image of John McCain.

Rich: Okay that was a person I invited today. (She got it without any guesses — just said “I see him” and I had said his name aloud to myself while driving to her office in Manhattan Beach) I have a bunch of questions for him. Should we talk to John or (the other person I had in mind) first?


Okay. Well, John, I heard your voice in my head two weeks ago, after you passed. Might have been my imagination, but I had the impression you said “I understand you’re the guy I need to speak with.” I recognized your voice before I could figure out it was you. So at that time I just said “Reach out to Luana, and you can join us in our class.”

Luana by Monte Hellman

(Luana Anders is an actress whom I knew for 20 years, who passed in 1996. She started appearing in dreams or visions and eventually take me on trips around the universe. I wondered “if she was able to visit me,” how I could visit her.

I ran across the books of Michael Newton where people under deep hypnosis claim to be able to see people no longer on the planet, so I began a documentary about his work (“Flipside” on Gaia). Since then, I’ve filmed 45 deep hypnosis sessions where people all say the same basic things about the afterlife, and I’ve done 5 sessions myself (and seen and heard the same things as well as visiting Luana.)

In my books I compare these accounts with the thousands done by Dr. Helen Wambach and Michael Newton over their careers studying these cases. They all say the same thing; “we don’t die.” (“We aren’t gone, we just aren’t here anymore.” They claim we “return home” (their words).

They claim “We still exist, but no one believes we do.” When I began to work with the medium Jennifer, she observed Luana was helping facilitate our conversations with people who’d crossed over. (Mutual friends of Luana and me; Bill Paxton, Harry Dean Stanton and others.) It was during one of these interviews where Tom Petty said Luana was the “holder of the backstage pass” — like the people who wanted to speak to us had to get in line, and get her permission to do so. Hence the title of the books.)

Luana Rockefeller plaza circa 1985

Jennifer: “I’m the host,” Luana said. “Yeah.”

Rich: John, who told you I was the guy to speak with? Or were they talking about our class over there on the flipside?

They’re talking me about New York city, one of your relatives — feels like a guy.

Someone in my family who was in the Navy? I’m curious, because my grandfather was assistant to the Secretary of the Navy during World War II; maybe he knew John’s father.

It’s your dad.

Oh, okay. Well, my dad was in the Navy as well, a Lt. during World War II. (Graduated from midshipmans school in NYC, lived in DC where he met my mom) So John what do you know about our class so far?

“I know that we can talk to you this way.”

Okay. Who was there to greet you when you crossed over?

He said “his first love.” He’s showing me a woman around 30; she had a bouffant hair, her hair is blonde…

Someone who crossed over before him?

It felt like a grandmother at first… maybe his first love was his mom… hold on.

John with mom and dad (Mom’s 106, her identical twin sister

Rowena passed in 2011)

(His mother had an identical blonde twin sister Rowena who passed away in 2011. His mother is still alive at 106.)

Was John close to Ronald Reagan? I just felt Ronald Reagan…

So Ronnie was there to greet you?

It’s like they’re all over there… He says, “There’s a time limit in terms of our ability to help our country, to help what’s going on with Trump.”

Well, I prefer to not focus on that fellow right now; we’ll get there, but I want to be specific about your journey. Who was there to greet you? This blonde woman and Ron?

Reagan was later. (Then) He was greeted by his regiment… I see the number 51 — number on his plane, or something?

(When this was recorded, it was 51 years since he had been shot down over Vietnam).

He was shot down as a pilot a couple of times.

I didn’t know that.

That’s why I’m here for odd confirmation. Are some of these people you were greeted by… were they people you…


People that you were in prison with? He spent 5 years in prison in Hanoi… I’m asking if some of those people are with you now.


Are some of your captors with you now?

“Not yet.”

Why not?

“They’re learning… it’s a process of learning, they’re still learning… about the whole process.”

You were a warrior and some of the people you killed were part of your journey as well. And your victims, people you killed in Vietnam also participated in your journey or path… as I understand it. Are any of your victims there that you’ve met? Luana help me with this, please, or is that a tough question?

“It’s not a tough question.” He showed me his life review — the people he killed were part of that life review; like he didn’t party at first… When he went back (home), the life review for him happened instantly.

Did you recognize the people in your life review? Who was your guide?

I’m seeing a picture of Abraham Lincoln.

Mid debate

Somebody like Abraham Lincoln? Or is that a joke? He does have a sense of humor. John are you joking about Abe Lincoln being one of your guides?

“It is true, yes, I’m joking but it’s true.”

You mean “Yes it’s funny, but it’s accurate?”

Jennifer taps her nose.

(Note: People often report about “life reviews” in both near death experience research (see for details) and in the deep hypnosis sessions. (“Councils” in Michael Newton’s research) We all have guides, sometimes our guides “look just like so and so.” In this case, we’re hearing that he actually is “so and so.”

As I’ve reported in the books, part of our work is not judging whatever “comes forward.” We might not understand it at first, or we might have to spend some time breaking it down or “unpacking” what she is seeing, but in this case, we had begun “interviewing” whoever showed up as a visual during a session.

I have no way of knowing if what these historical figures are saying is accurate, but sometimes a casual detail leads to a larger truth. In that vein, the following should be filtered though that “needs to be further examined” frame. Later we interview this fellow, who he says was his guide.)

So, hey, can you bring Abe forward?

Jennifer shakes her head in wonder… — “Yes.” (Jennifer aside) I’m trying to not judge it; I read something about the White House being haunted today.

It is haunted… Especially the Lincoln bedroom. I’ve heard many of those stories… so John, before you invite Abe to join us, do you recognize anyone here in our class?

He showed me… Tom Petty.

Did you know Tom? You knew him from before?

“Yes.” There’s got to be a song or something connecting them.

(The song is “I Won’t Back Down” which Senator McCain used during the 2008 campaign, but Tom stopped Bush from using in the 2004 campaign. I’ve edited out the conversation we had with Abe Lincoln, it will be in the book version. Unusual to say the least.)


So John, the funeral for you was pretty dramatic; two Presidents spoke.

“Yes.” (Jennifer: aside) I loved how his daughter said “America has always been great.” I was trying to follow all of her words, it was like … I’m asking him; “Was it fun planning your funeral?” He said “I like to have control of everything.”

Did you like their rendition of “Danny Boy?”

“It was off key.”

I read that you used to play that for people on your ranch.

Jennifer taps her nose (meaning “spot on.”) He says “That person (singing at his funeral) was very nervous.”

Anything you want us to pass along to your family?

His wife has a lot more to say. “My daughter’s going to be fine,” he says. “They’re so much alike…” He says he’s worried about his wife.

John you weren’t able to lift your arms or comb your hair… I know you got through that, but is there anything you want to say about that?

“It made me stronger.”

A diamond in the rough; a piece of coal that turned into a diamond later?

He says “He wanted to help people on a bigger playing field.”

The rest of his life he fought torture and helped the reconciliation in Vietnam… and helped people worldwide. Speaking of torture, what do you want to say about the current president? From your current perspective?

He just left. He walked away… and Luana came in.

What does that mean Lu? It’s ok if he doesn’t want to talk about it.

He does — he went back and brought back a contract, or a scroll.

From his akashic library? Is this John’s scroll or Trump’s?

Okay, I’m getting a lot of information, I have to make sure I’m not…

Don’t worry, just say it and I’ll ask questions about it.


Is this a scroll from John’s lives?

He showed me that he needed to feel the pain and torture and he needed to feel the bonding… so when I say he has the same energetic pattern (as someone who suffered for compassion) he showed me Gandhi — it wasn’t that he was Gandhi — but the end point would be the same for both of them.

(The term “Akashic record” is a loose term; it’s just a sanskrit word for “library.” Michael Newton reported them in his cases, I’ve filmed many people under hypnosis describing a “library” where they could access their life histories (or in this case a “contract.”)

My grandfather, National Commander of the American

Legion (center) waiting to meet the King of England

Rich: So John, your choice for choosing a difficult lifetime… that choice was about your choosing a difficult lifetime to learn those lessons — so you could turn those coals into diamonds?

Jennifer: He just showed me the same stripe or medal that Tony Stockwell showed you… the star medal.

(During an interview with the medium Tony Stockwell, we visited his council (a group of guides or teachers that help evaluate lifetimes). In Tony’s case, I asked if his guide was wearing anything; he said a “star.” I asked if he meant badge, he said “It’s a literal star, made of light. Something I’ve earned.” Tony remembered a tragic lifetime in Victorian England (details of which I was later able to verify.)

The medal he earned; the star?

John says he has 3 of them now…

So what do the other two represent, different lifetimes? Or did they all come from this life?

“They all came from this lifetime.” Because he felt the torture, he then tried to correct it, and then he tried to stop it. Three different medals.

(Interesting detail to note and not something Jennifer is familiar with in her day to day work. I’ve been to many councils and interviewed them about various journeys, but have never run across anyone who earned medals for “three levels of difficulty” in one lifetime.)

Anyone in class want to comment about what John is saying?

They all started clapping. I think they’re clapping because I got it, or because we understand it.

So John, you’ve had other lifetimes where you were a soldier in war?

A general.

Were you part of that energy of wartime?

“We’re all lights right?” He showed me — when you said “that energy” — all the lights lit up — so they can find each other.

(Note: As we’ve heard; musicians tend to hang out with musicians on the flipside, people from politics hang out with others who’ve done that kind of work, doctors, lawyers, healers, etc. They “gravitate” (funny word to use) to others who’ve done the same kind of work, who radiate on the same frequency. Often what bonds them is compassionate work, or healing work, or in this case, military and politics.)

So they find the frequencies. Okay, thanks for explaining that!


(Another day, another session.)

Jennifer: I just saw Ronald Reagan. Why did Ronald Reagan just stop by?

Rich: Well, let’s talk to him.

And Nancy is here as well. (Listens) What did Nancy call him?

(Nancy made a comment about her being the “one with the psychics” and said she “should have been the first person we sought out.” I told her she’d have to speak with Luana about when we could interview her.)

“Ronnie.” I think he came forward because earlier we were taking to John McCain, you were one of the people who greeted him when he crossed over. Let me ask; how does Ron look now — old or young?

Young, he looks like a cross between — like when he was an actor; there’s a photo with smoke in the room from a black and white photograph.

I know you and Nancy got married in the little brown chapel in Studio City near to where Luana lived.

“It was so simple, just very few people, a lot of people on her side but not on his,” he says.

(Note: Married for 52 years, the team started their life together as husband and wife on March 4, 1952 at the Little Brown Church in Studio City… the Reagans’ was a simple wedding, witnessed by best man actor William Holden and his wife. The ceremony was followed with a cake cutting in the chapel’s anteroom. From the Church website)

What’s your opinion about what’s going on in politics now?

He’s having me look up (in the sky) — I’m trying to understand… I saw all of them, like a collective answering that question, about “what’s going on now,” or “what do they think about now?” I got “checks and balances” — I got the scales… that it will take years to rebalance. I asked if its “right or wrong”… (They’re saying) “It will take years to rebalance.”

Monty Python. Waiting for change..

Are you planning your next incarnation yet, Ronnie?

“No. Just taking it easy.”

You had Alzheimers, tell us, what you are doing now?

He loves horses; he’s with horses.

He likes to ride around?

“It’s a different kind of riding. It’s safer.”

(Note: We often ask what people are up to on the flipside. They reply that “doing something” is a mental construct, that if “you’re good at math” you can create the object that you remember from being on the planet. We’ve heard people describe visiting white sandy beaches, going to racetrack and “playing golf.” When we asked Garry Shandling “How many holes do you play? 36?” He said “Two. The tees are just very far apart.”)

What horse do you ride…

Her name is Delilah… sounds like.

Anything you want us to tell your kids Patty and Ron jr.?

“Thank you .. for taking care of the animals.”



Another day…. another session. This one from last Tuesday.

Rich: Anyone else who needs to speak to us, Luana? Who else wants to come through?

Jennifer: “Maverick.” I can’t think of his name; I’m just going to call him Maverick.

John McCain?


(This is 2 1/2 months after his passing. 2 months since he “showed up.”)

What does John want to tell us?

He just grabbed a chair and sat down. He says he “Won’t waste his time talking even talking about Trump; he’s way beyond that.” (She listens, laughs) He says, “It’s waking up a lot of people (however), he’s doing us a great service… People that never considered going into politics are now very involved, so he’s done us a favor. But it should end soon.” (Listens) He’s talking about you Rich, he showed me you in my mind’s eye. (Jennifer listens) He says, “You need to figure out a way to get these excerpts (of our conversation) to his daughter, she’s having dreams or something with that as well.

His daughter Meghan?

The one on TV. He says “The one that likes Trump.. but don’t mention Trump.”

Okay. I’m not a fan, but I’ll do that. I’m happy to post these online, if it’s the only way to try to reach out.

He says he likes me calling him Maverick. You know me (Jennifer speaking), I’m not going to tell you to send it to her… But he’s tried to butt-in a number of times (while you’re speaking).

It’s a good name for him… so Mr. Maverick… so you want me to reach out to Meghan, what do you want me to say to her? Give her a sign for her to observe to look for, to validate that you’re there?

I’m talking to him at the same time as you’re talking… he’s showing me serious things. He says she’s trying to decide if she’s going into politics. (Pauses) He’s encouraging her to go into politics.

How can we show her it’s you telling her to do that?

She had a dream about him and wrote it down — information that seemed like it came from him and she wrote it down.

Okay, what’s a way to tell her that?

He’s going to connect with her again tonight.

So you want me to say “You’re father came through and said the following…” But what’s a code word so that she knows it’s coming from you and not some nutball on the net? What did she call you?

“Dad.” (Jennifer listens) Something with a teddy bear. I just got shown a little teddy bear, don’t know if there’s a connection there… it’s light brown. Felt like it had pinkish overtones.

Something that you gave to her?

Either something he gave to her… I see her looking like a little kid. Feels like whenever he traveled, she had that around. Either a bear or a bunny.

A bear or bunny, pick one.

“A bear.”

That’s proof to her that you’re still around?


She still has it?

“At least in her mind… I don’t know if she still has it.”

How about your favorite song you used to play off your balcony on your ranch?

I’m hearing “You’ve Lost that Loving Feeling.” And then I’m hearing Neil Diamond too; “Coming to America.” Hold on. Who’s the one that um… who’s the daughter that would sing the same song as her dad?

Natalie Cole. “Unforgettable?”

Look up “Unforgettable” for his daughter.

(John had eclectic tastes in music, he was a fan of Neil Diamond (who isn’t?) but I couldn’t find any specific reference to these tunes. However, if Meghan reads this at some point, perhaps she will.)

Okay, I will pass it along. Class was that okay for Maverick to butt in the way he did? Jump the line?

Luana is saying “He had special clearances.” She’s showing me it’s very orchestrated over there.

Not sure how I can tell this to Meghan… what’s she going to run for?


Of Arizona? Okay, well, from a flipside perspective Meghan might be a great politician.

I asked him if his daughter was going to be the first woman president, and he said “No” and showed me someone else. That’s weird.

(I won’t repeat this prediction because we all have free will to change our minds, or screw things up. It might be a likely outcome for the person that came to mind for Jennifer, but to avoid being in the prediction business, let’s just say that his choice was a logical one.)

She’s struggling with giving up her freedom to do that (run for President).

I can’t blame her. Okay, you heard it here first; John McCain says his daughter should run for Governor, and says he’s predicting (who) will run and win the Presidency. (Even though we’ve learned time and time again that the future is not predictable, there are only “likely events.” But for an odd endorsement, doesn’t get any better than “John McCain is rooting for you from the flipside!”) Okay thanks everyone.


Note: As Jennifer says often “It’s not my job to make people believe there is an afterlife, my job is to just report accurately what I’m seeing or sensing.” In my case, one could argue that I’m diametrically opposed to what the GOP has come to stand for, and am posting this only because 1. John McCain asked us to. 2. Did I mention that John McCain asked us to? “Sorry dude, I didn’t like your politics on this side” doesn’t fly in light of this research.

It’s interesting to note; we know how much John McCain hated the current resident of the White House, we know that he loathed everything about him, but it’s also accurate what he says about “how many people have responded and decided to run for office based on him.” So that’s worth noting. Sometimes the events that occur in front of us, are inspiration for us to change them.

I have no idea if Meghan McCain has any designs to run for office. I thought it was pretty interesting how specific he was about what office she should run for (Governor of Arizona). I do know that it’s important to realize that our loved ones are not gone; they just aren’t here. She may find zero, nada, nothing about this report that is accurate — including the teddy bear that he cites and proof that it’s him, and that “she’ll understand that.”

That may be a future reference — that some teddy bear will appear in the future to her, a gift, a toy, or it could be a distant memory. I don’t know. I didn’t come up with it, and it’s what Jennifer saw.

What I do know is that this research “isn’t for everybody.” Not everyone signs up to have a lifetime where they know how it ends. So if this post offends anyone, everyone, my apologies — if it inspires someone to speak to their loved ones, I can offer that we hear the same things often: “We know we still exist even though you don’t believe we do.”

As noted in previous posts, we’ve been told from someone on the flipside that it’s not hard to communicate with loved ones no longer here: 1. Say their name. 2. Ask them questions. 3. When you hear a response before you can form the question, then you’ll know you’re in contact. Simple, elegant. Didn’t come from me or Jennifer, but now you know.

As I’ve noted before, I’ve verified a number of details of things that Jennifer has reported from the flipside, including “new information” from people over there that no one here knows, but after being made aware of it, I am able to forensically prove it to be accurate. (And I do so in my books “Hacking the Afterlife” “It’s a Wonderful Afterlife” “Flipside” and “Backstage Pass to the Flipside: Talking to the Afterlife with Jennifer Shaffer.”

We were at the end of a two hour filming session, when she said she saw “Maverick,” and he had something to say. This is not a theory, belief or opinion about the afterlife; I’m filming what people say under deep hypnosis or through a medium and reporting that; in this case filming an interview with a medium who works with law enforcement nationwide on missing person cases. So I hope Meghan sees it, but it’s okay if she doesn’t. As for Maverick:

Mission accomplished.

Thumbs up.

Richard Martini

Written by

Best selling author (kindle) “Flipside” “Its a Wonderful Afterlife” “Hacking the Afterlife” “Backstage Pass to the Flipside” writer/director of 8 feature films

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