Ok I respect your point of view. But some of it alarms me. I am too busy undoing the harm done to me as a baby, to be concerned about forgiving anyone, and especially those who criminally and violently attacked me. In my case both my parents are dead. That does not mean I am bound up in revenge. That does not mean that I object to someone else helping those criminals from healing. In fact I hope that someone can help those criminals heal so that they stop hurting others. Nor does it mean that I object to someone else offering forgiveness to those healed criminals. However I find the automatic assumption that if I am not focusing on forgiving those criminals, then I must be consumed with bitterness and revenge. I am not. I am too busy trying to sort my own sorry self out. All I want is recognition that what was done to me was totally wrong, was unforgivable and for the continual hurt to stop. I also find that assuming that people want to continue in bitterness or want to re-traumatise themselves quite insulting as well. There are those who may do this, but if they as an organism have dissociated they are probably not even aware of it. So that it is not a case of conscious choice but of unconscious repetition. In my case it was my mother who was the main perpetrator but throughout my life there have been many men who assume they have a right to fondle my breasts, or touch me intimately, and that I should not complain or make a fuss. I would note here that I have never been ‘touched up’ by any woman ever. It would be interesting to hear if men in general have been subjected to this behaviour and regularly. The people who do this are not traumatised — they come from a culture that allows this kind of behaviour so that they feel entitled to behave this way. The people who are reacting badly to men in general need help too. That does not forgive them for reacting. It certainly does not forgive any kind of trolling behaviour. And I apologise to all good men that are on the receiving end of this kind of behaviour. Not all abused people go on to abuse. We all have choice. We all make mistakes. And I am sorry that Seth was on the receiving end, he does not deserve it. But blanket generalising as ascribing actual choice where none may be available is not on either.