Breaking Ceilings — A Closer Look at the Asian-American Woman Experience
As part of The Ohio State University’s program, Second-Year Transformational Experience Program (STEP), we had the opportunity to create a project on something that we were passionate about. Three of us decided to work together to highlight the challenges that Asian-American women faced in their life, school, and careers.
Here‘s a bit about us.
As Asian-American women, there was no question that we were bound to challenges due to our appearances.
At times, it felt as if we had to prove our worth and right to be in a space dominated by people who thought of us as foreigners. On more than one occasion, we’ve been asked how our English was so good despite the fact that we were born and raised in the United States. We’ve been pressured to keep up with the model minority stereotype, getting raised eyebrows when we aren’t the smartest person in the room. We’ve been asked to translate foreign languages that we have no idea how to read, only because people think that all Asians can read Chinese or any Asian language in general.
The barriers in being a woman were not new to us either.
We were taught in schools that women, on average, received less pay than men. We grew up in a society where women had impossible beauty standards to live up to. We lived in communities where we were chided for not acting like proper ladies.
And when you looked at the intersection of being both an Asian-American as well as a woman, we had an additional layer of problems that became a part of our lives. For instance, some of us were asked uncomfortable questions regarding our bodies, a result of the hyper-sexualized image of Asian women that some men had. Often, there were cultural clashes and confusion over understanding what it meant to be a woman in America and how to reconcile that image with how our parents thought a woman should act like. Or worse, the suspecting idea that our parents would have preferred a son over a daughter. The list goes on.
These were issues that we grew up with, that impacted both our social and academic lives. But as we started to think about life outside of college, we started to wonder if additional struggles and barriers would await our future.
Would life be harder after college? Does our identity as female, Asian American women make us better/worse off than that of Asian-American men or even other women?
These questions weren’t necessarily novel — women and minorities before us have considered how their identities prohibited them from certain opportunities by exploring the term, “the glass ceiling.”
Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the glass ceiling as “an intangible barrier within a hierarchy that prevents women or minorities from obtaining upper-level positions.”
The term was coined over 40 years ago, when Marilyn Loden mentioned how there seemed to be “an invisible barrier to advancement that people didn’t recognize.” Her words highlighted the subtle bias and barriers that women faced when trying to prove their worth in the working world.
Since the glass ceiling became a recognized concept, more understanding of the glass ceiling and how that related to different minorities started to surface. And the awareness that ceilings exist for specific minorities showed when terms like “the bamboo ceiling” started being discussed.
The bamboo ceiling, as implied by its name, is a more specific application for the glass ceiling that is focused on barriers for Asians and Asian-Americans. Coined in 2005, Jane Hyun, author of Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling, defines it as “a combination of individual, cultural, and organizational factors that impede Asian-Americans’ career progress inside organizations.”
Indeed, in comparison to other minorities, Asian and Asian-American representation in executive positions is low despite the fact that Asians are seen as the hard-working, model minority. According to an L.A. Times article by Karthick Ramakrishnan and Jennifer Lee, “Asian Americans are the group least likely to be promoted into managerial and executive ranks. Whites are twice as likely as Asians to hold executive positions. And while white women have made gains over the past decade as more have broken through the glass ceiling, Asian women have not experienced the same. In fact, they are among those least likely to be promoted, and their gap with white men has worsened over the last decade. So, while Asian Americans can get through [corporate] doors, they are unable to move up the ladders.”
In the article, Ramakrishnan and Lee touch on the challenges of being an Asian woman. This begs the question, what happens when we look at the intersectionality between the glass and bamboo ceiling? What happens when we focus our thoughts on what directly applies to us as Asian-American women? Our questions led us to look to other people — and another city — for the answers.
Our questions brought us on a 10-day journey during our spring break to New York, where we interviewed students and working adults to understand more of their experiences and thoughts on being Asian-American women.
We wanted perspectives from other Asian-American women who had different backgrounds from us and were also in a different point in life than us so that we could see how the female Asian-American experience was similar or different than others. From our contacts and networks, we ended up interviewing 4 individuals in New York who were Chinese, Filipino or Taiwanese-American.
Note: we understand that the Asian-American experience extends beyond the Chinese, Filipino, Taiwanese-American experience. However, we decided to focus more on those with similar ethnic backgrounds as us, although looking into how different Asian backgrounds influence barriers could be a way to extend our project for the future.
Our first interviewee, Lin, was a Taiwanese-American student studying art and math from Morehead State University who happened to be in New York for the break. She spoke a lot of her experiences as an immigrant and the challenges that she faced, as well as advice for fellow Asian-American women and our communities.
Katherine, a Chinese-American art student from Pratt Institute, spoke on her experiences and struggles with her parents when she decided to pursue art as a career.
Heidi, a working professional at J.P. Morgan Chase and graduate from The Ohio State University in fashion and retail studies, shared her experiences with us as well, touching on female and Asian representation in the business world.
Gabriella (name changed for anonymity), who identifies as Filipino-American, currently works as a software engineer. She earned a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Unfortunately, we were unable to get a video interview with her. However, she was able to share her experiences with us.
What are you passionate about what gets you excited?
I’ve always been interested in the role technology plays in society. Computing has become such a big part of our lives, and what initially attracted me to computer science was how much impact my work could have on people. I think it’s interesting to think about technological ethics and how what I create can change people’s behavior. There’s this concept about feedback loops: human inventions, in turn, invent us. I also care a lot about diversity, inclusion, and education access; those are definitely hot topics in the tech industry.
How well did your undergrad experience prepare for you to succeed in the workplace?
My computer science curriculum gave me the fundamental knowledge I needed to get internships and succeed technically, but my internships were more valuable in giving me practical, software engineering experience. I learned about the best (and not-so-best) practices about how to develop software at scale, how you marry product goals with technical feasibility, and so forth. That’s not something easily replicated in an undergrad environment. My undergrad extracurriculars were most important for my personal growth.
As a freshman, I didn’t have a lot of self-confidence and just kept my head down in my textbooks, but early on, someone told me, “90% of your college education is outside the classroom.”
That’s an arbitrary percentage and arguably a little high…but it helped me see the educational value in non-engineering involvement. I had a lot of involvements that didn’t help my technical resume at all, but they enriched my perspective and character that made me a better person. Student organizations also gave me a network of mentors, role models, and peers to inspire me. I’ve actively sought out to build these same relationships in the workplace, to decent success.
Can you speak a little more on the organizations you were involved in and your internships?
I could talk at length about my internships, but to summarize my professional career: I applied to some internships as a freshman but expected nothing, but I got one. Then I got another internship. And another. Then a full-time offer. Voila. I really loved my internship experiences; they confirmed that I picked the right career path and were a lot more fun than class, for sure. Software engineering interviews are a whole animal. You have to answer data structure and algorithms questions and write code on a whiteboard. No one at school taught me how to navigate that hiring process, but I had the Internet on my side.
Regarding student organizations, I dabbled in many things throughout my four years. I tried to get involved in Asian American organizations, specifically the Filipino Student Association. Filipino culture has always been important to me and my parents were very adamant that I stayed connected to it. But I felt a little disconnected from the FSA students. I think it’s because I’m a first-generation immigrant and spent most of my formative years outside the U.S. I almost felt “too Asian” and couldn’t relate to the experiences of growing up here.
I was absolutely shocked that many of them grew up ashamed of their culture. That’s crazy.
I did a lot of community service, which taught me about social justice and helped me meet people who were different from me. I was also in a women in computer science group, which was probably my favorite involvement and helped me feel like I belonged in my major.
How do you think your position as an Asian-American woman has influenced the way you work and identify yourself?
Those two identities are very important to me, but I’m not sure how they influence the way I work. I guess they affect me by making me feel different. I’m the only woman of color in my engineering team, and definitely the youngest. I’m sure I bring a new perspective, but it’s hard to tie my identities back to my workstyle even though they’re a part of who I am.
I imagine I’ll notice it more as I advance in my career. I’m still young. You’ve heard of the bamboo ceiling, right? It sucks to think that I’ll potentially have to deal with a bamboo ceiling and a glass ceiling.
Have you felt your identity as a woman has helped or hindered your progress?
It certainly hasn’t helped. In college, people would tell me, “Oh, you just got your internship because you’re a girl.” I know my company doesn’t lower their hiring bar, and my coworkers and peers have assured me that I earned my spot. Even so, I feel super insecure and self-doubting when someone says that. What if I did get the job because I’m a woman? I have to remind myself no, no, no.
You belong here. You’re here on your own right.
I love my current team. I haven’t had any problems, but I sometimes try to imagine how I’d be treated differently if I was a man. Would they be more friendly? More “bro” with me? Maybe. I have no complaints for now. I still struggle with self-confidence, but I have a strong network of women who support me. The senior leadership that I’ve met are always gracious with their knowledge, and my friends are always there when I lament about the smallest mistakes I make.
On the flipside, have you felt your identity as an Asian American has helped or hindered your progress?
That’s a tough one. There’s that stereotype that Asians are good at math and science- I wonder if that’s helped me… If anything, no one’s questioned my academic success like they would question an African-American student. At the same time, in college, I felt like there were negative stereotypes about Asians that hurt how people see my leadership ability or my people skills. At first I thought it was because I’m a bit nerdy, but I think there might have been other factors in play. As I gain more ownership over my work, I wonder if I’ll see more of that.
Which one of your identities has been more influential? Being a woman? Asian-American?
I didn’t really think about how I was Asian until I moved to the US and I was like wow, why do I feel so weird? Oh, it’s because everybody is white. I moved to the US later in my life, so even after all these years, my Filipino upbringing has a strong influence on my values. I guess being a woman affected me more when I entered a STEM field, or I at least thought about it more. I was one of the few women in my classes. All the guys would hang out and study with each other, and I didn’t really have friends to study with.
How do you think women are represented in Tech in general?
It’s no news flash that women are underrepresented in STEM.
I’m not the best, academic authority on this, but there’s this cycle of gender bias and stereotypes. Young women are not seen as technical so they are not encouraged, while young boys are. These women grow up and are less likely to pursue technical roles, and then you end up with less role models in the field for younger women to look up to. And then, the women that did end up joining the field may still be discouraged because their peers aren’t taking them seriously and are questioning why they’re there. The studies and stories are out there.
Can you speak a little bit more on what got you interested in computer science?
I got lucky. I took AP Computer Science in high school because I was collecting AP classes, which sounds terrible, but that’s all I wanted to do at the time. I ended up kind of liking it. When I was looking at college majors, I was leaning towards the humanities since had little passion for math and science. I also considered business, but since I liked programming, I thought I might as well try it out and switch to something else if I hated it. I ended up really liking it, so here I am.
I have co-workers that coded for the first time in college, some who’ve coded since middle school, some who switched over from a different industry — there are many different pathways.
How would you say your parents have influenced you to make this career choice?
Oh you know, on one hand my parents were like, “you must be successful” but they’re also super chill in contrast to common stereotypes (tiger mom) . They want to me to be happy. If I pursued a liberal arts field, they wouldn’t stop me, but they’d tell me that I need to be able to support myself. They actually encouraged me to go to try out computer science when I expressed hesitation about the math and physics I had to take.
Do you think computer science is very math and physics dominated?
Physics was just part of the engineering school requirements. There’s a lot of math, but it’s different from the math you do in high school. It’s less computational, and more logic and proofs. Pure computer science is, in fact, straight up math. It’s the science of computing after all. That’s not as fun for me. I’m more interested in software engineering.
What words of advice could you give to young Asian-American women pursuing STEM?
I didn’t really grow up here so I don’t know what that was like dealing with that tension between home and school. You want to fit in at school, but you have all these things about your appearance and your family that make you different. I can’t imagine what that’s like. I have a friend who said that she specifically avoids doing Asian things. What does that even mean, ‘Asian things’? Drinking boba? I don’t understand.
I would tell young Asian-American women to try and learn more about their identities.
I have this part of me that always feel foreign, like this isn’t really my home. I often feel like I’m floating between cultures, but learning about my Asian-American identity grounds me and helps me better understand my experience, feelings, and how other people treat me.
Would you have anything additional to say to other Asian-American women pursuing STEM?
I think Asian-American women are often perceived as quiet and docile. I hate that.
Don’t let other people’s expectations limit you.
That sounds cliché, but you’ll be able to tell the other people see you a certain way, expect you to act a certain way, and you shouldn’t be afraid of surprising them when you speak up.
Regarding the pipeline you mentioned, this is a twofold question- first of all, how do you hope that society will change in the next 5, 10 years from now? And second, is there anything we can do now as a society or individually to break past this pipeline?
I hope that people become more educated on unconscious bias. I know I can’t eliminate bias completely, especially when it’s deeply embedded into our society, but being aware of it can help me fight it. I hope that the diversity in the STEM field improves, and that there are more women and people of color in leadership roles.
Having role models that are like you shows you that there’s a way up and forward.
Things that we can do to help… I always try just to just pay it forward. Good mentorship was crucial to getting where I am. I try to be a resource to other people as much as possible and am always willing to give time. No one truly owns all their achievements, right? Everybody has had help.
Can you speak a bit more about how this role model/ mentorship has affected you personally?
My mom is a big role model. She’s really great at math, so I always had a boss technical woman in my life. In college, I looked up to a lot of amazing women who were respected leaders in their communities. There was a professor in particular who I absolutely admired; she encouraged me to always try and make my community better. Something she specifically addressed to me is that there aren’t a lot of visibly, civically engaged Asian-Americans, and that I could inspire other Asian-Americans to participate. Gaining this confidence to be more vocal about social justice has translated to other parts of my life.
My peers are also a huge source of inspiration. Being inspired by your peers is really powerful, because with older role models, you’re can’t always see the path that can take you there. With peers, it’s like, hey, I think I can achieve this too.
Where do you see yourself and your career down the road, where do you hope to be at?
There is so much to learn in my current job! I am overwhelmed. I want to develop my skills here, but down the road I’ve always envisioned myself somehow using technology in a humanitarian capacity. It’s hard to use software to directly help people in need, because the most marginalized communities have limited access to technology. I would love to figure out a way to do that, but I’ll be corporate for the near future. Other things I’d like to achieve… I would love to give back to my university in some way, especially to younger students. I think it’s scary going to the city for the first time. I would love to make that more accessible for people who want to do it.
Do you see yourself becoming a role models to others?
It’s a weird thing, “do you want to be a role model?” If someone told me, “you’re my role model” I wouldn’t know what to say. I guess it’s just something that naturally happens when you’re in a place someone else wants to be. I would hope I’m a good example to anyone else who sees me that way, but it’s not something I actively seek out.
Coming Home
Overall, we utilized this project to help us better understand the challenges and struggles we may face in the working world and in society. What we’ve learned from our interviews is that the female Asian-American experience is not the same for everyone — our struggles, challenges, interests, and passions are uniquely our own.
At the same time, however, we found that while society is changing our perceptions of minorities and of women, different industries are changing at different paces. For example, being a woman in a STEM career entails a more difficult experience than a woman in the retail business industry. Additionally, different stages of life bring about new challenges. For instance, growing up Asian-American brought a lot of personal conflicts in trying to balance and figure out their Asian versus American identity. However, in adulthood, these challenges start to rise in professional careers, where bias, stereotypes, and other societal expectations may hinder career progression.
After completing this project, our perception of society has become more optimistic. While these invisible ceilings do exist in society, we find that the extent to which these ceilings hinder our success is slowly breaking down.
From the interviews that we conducted, we gained a better sense of what life was actually like in the real working world, and how that differed from our expectations. At first, some of us thought that people would be painfully aware of how their differences would limit their career and personal growth. We thought that experiences across industries would be similar, and that ceilings would be difficult to break through.
However, it turns out that people are mostly optimistic about their future goals and ambitions — and while they realize that they are the minority, it doesn’t necessarily hinder their growth and success. Furthermore, our interviewee’s experiences were uniquely different — and while there were some feelings and experiences we could relate to, we found that there was no one Asian-American woman experience. Everyone’s experiences led to different challenges, different passions, different perspectives. And this helped us to realize that not all Asian-Americans need to follow a societal stereotype.
Not to discredit the fact that ceilings and barriers still exist — even today, we cannot deny injustices that happen to minorities everywhere. However, we realize that times are changing and that our society is improving. What may have been an impenetrable ceiling years ago is now only a tap away from being broken. And this knowledge that our society is continuously changing gives us hope for our own futures, ambitions, and goals.
Because we are Asian-American women, this project helped us understand the challenges that we may go through in our careers and lives. A lot of what the interviewees mentioned is something that we could relate to through our own personal experiences growing up confused and conflicted about our identities, and made us realize that we shared a lot of struggles growing up. In listening to the advice of our interviewees, we gained a different perspective on how to overcome barriers in our lives, and made us more comfortable to reach out to others for mentorship, advice, and help with our career and professional life. Overall, in understanding the challenges that we may need to face as Asian-American women, we can better equip ourselves to break down barriers and push through invisible ceilings wherever they are.
A huge thank you to all our interviewees, supporters, and STEP for enabling us to complete this project. Special thanks to WeWork NYC for lending us the space to film our interview with Heidi, as well as Vu Luong for lending us filming equipment for this project.
