The ‘Aha Moment’ of an Entrepreneur — Full Transcript

How clinicians turned CEOs are changing lives with their healthcare startups.

The full video episode along with key takeaways from this episode of StartUp Health NOW can be found here.

The “Aha Moment” of a Doctorpreneur

FORCE Therapeutics Founder and CEO Bronwyn Spira shares her journey from physical therapist to Healthcare Transformer and explores how she’s scaling her virtual treatment platform to reach thousands of patients.

Steven Krein: [0:05] Welcome to another episode of StartUp Health Now, the weekly show celebrating the healthcare transformers and change makers, that are re‑imagining healthcare. My name is Steven Krein.

Unity Stoakes: [0:13] I’m Unity Stoakes.

Steven: [0:14] On today’s episode, I’m really excited to be interviewing and speaking with one of the original healthcare transformers in StartUp Health, Bronwyn Spira, who is the CEO of FORCE Therapeutics, a recovery platform for patients.

[0:27] This is going to be a great episode.

[0:29] INTRO

Steve: [1:08] Welcome back to StartUp Health Now. We are excited to be here with Bronwyn Spira, the CEO of FORCE Therapeutics, a recovery platform that’s changing the landscape in the physical therapy market.

[1:19] Welcome to the show, Bronwyn.

Bronwyn Spira: [1:21] Great to be here Steve, Unity, good to see you guys.

Unity: [1:23] It’s great. Bronwyn really is one of the original healthcare transformers. It’s great to have you here.

Bronwyn: [1:30] Thank you, I’m so proud of it. I tell everybody, I was the inaugural class.

Unity: [1:34] Yes. One of the things that is so cool about you, is that you’re a physical therapist, you’ve been practicing for how long? 20 years, 20 plus years?

Bronwyn: [1:44] 20 plus is good.

Steve: [1:45] Since she was like 6 or 7.

Unity: [1:46] Amazing. You journeyed to become an entrepreneur, what was that journey like? Why did you decide to build FORCE Therapeutics in the first place?

Bronwyn: [2:00] I spent a lot of my career helping patients in any setting from in‑patient hospitals to outpatient to home care. What really struck me as I think about my body of work in the physical therapy space, was just that we need our patients to do so much in between our first visits at home. So much of their recovery rests on what they do at home, yet they are not given the tools to be successful with recovery.

Unity: [2:30] What did they do in the old days? Just a piece of paper?

Bronwyn: [2:32] A piece of paper, poor instructions, no real information transfer. Partially, technology has enabled that to a large degree, and the video is a very powerful medium and it’s certainly one that we leverage a lot. Just even looking at how healthcare is evolving, and so much of healthcare is moving to make patients successful in the home environment and moving away from these large institutions, hospitals, outpatient centers.

[3:12] In order for that change to happen successfully, patients need tools and need to be empowered to do well. At the same time, as that shift happens into the home, clinicians, providers, need to have a better understanding of how their patients are doing in between office visits. You can’t take everything away, strip it bare, and expect patients to recover.

[3:40] That’s really where I see our platform as serving this dual role, which is providing tools for patients that are engaging, digestible, understandable, and providing transparency for providers as their patients move further and further out of the hospital.

Steven: [3:58] Just for the audience, if you could just give a really succinct…What is FORCE Therapy? How does it work?

Bronwyn: [4:03] Absolutely, FORCE is an online and mobile platform that provides tools for patients to recover from musculoskeletal injury. We are working with a lot of leading institutions, orthopedic, and integrated delivery networks, to help providers get transparency into their patient’s recovery process, because it’s really a process, at the same time help patients be engaged and active in their own care at home.

Steven: [4:36] Now that we’ve framed FORCE Therapy, I was going to go back because I didn’t get the gist of why you felt compelled as a clinician to start this…

Bronwyn: [4:44] OK, yes.

Steven: [4:46] First of all, it’s incredible to have watched over the last couple of years you transformed from an idea into a real start‑up and a company that’s figured out product market fit, now scaling, and have some great partners.

[4:55] I want to go back to day one or even pre‑day one and how somebody goes from working in the office to actually saying, “I want to actually do something about improving what it’s like to either be a patient in a physical therapy environment or a physical therapist.”

Bronwyn: [5:11] I think about it a lot actually. It’s two main things that drove me into where I am today potentially. One is, when you’re a physical therapist or any kind of clinician, you’re always just thinking about your patient. It’s almost a mindset. Everything you do, you’re thinking about “How can I get this patient better, quicker?”

[5:34] That’s part of it. When you realize that the impact you can have on thousands of patients could potentially be much greater than just this one on one touching 12 patients a day, that in and of itself, is a motivating factor for me. Then the second piece of it which most entrepreneurs will tell you is that it’s really fun to build something great.

[6:03] Even though this is my first real business, I’ve always built things. I built two private practices from scratch, even within the companies that I worked for with the Rusk Institute here at NYU Medical Center for a long time. It was really engaged in building up my department. That’s really exciting, mentoring people, making a business real.

Steven: [6:34] You’ve always created things and always were entrepreneurially‑minded. This just was taking it to the next level and building a separate business that can scale and have different characteristic than private practice.

Bronwyn: [6:45] Exactly. It wasn’t ever my true intention, I don’t think. It just happened. I was doing this…I was still treating patients. I had my own practice when I started this business. It was just something that I was thinking about doing on the side.

[7:02] I tested it on my own practice which was a great experience and helped me really develop the product. Still today, I use it with patients and we are very engaged with patients using the platform. That really helps us and formed out development. That’s really a key thing.

Steven: [7:20] You got to be a customer and user and…

Bronwyn: [7:23] Exactly.

Steven: [7:23] …In practice. How much of your time spent still practicing versus your role as CEO of the company?

Bronwyn: [7:30] Today I’m mostly run forced. I have a couple of patients that…a long time patients that still.

Steven: [7:37] Very good. It’s a trend. We’re seeing…It’s close to half of the entrepreneurs now in StartUp Health have co‑founders that are practicing clinicians, MDs, PhDs, other kinds of clinicians. Are you seeing that both in the physical therapy specialty but others as well?

Bronwyn: [7:55] It’s important, it’s key. Healthcare is complicated. It’s very hard to solve it from the outside. If you’ve been in it for a long time, and you understand the unique issues, it helps to solve them to some degree.

[8:16] I mean, some people get very stuck in their ways and it’s harder to be entrepreneurial but there are so many complexities about patient care that a clinician can uniquely understand.

Steven: [8:30] Talk a bit about the journey. You’re practicing, you build these clinics and really saw these problems from your own experience and maybe saw how technology and video could change things. How did you get started and then how did things evolved?

Bronwyn: [8:50] When I think about the “aha” moment, it was when I had stepped away from my first practice that I built. It was just after I had my child, that was five years ago. It took me…I needed to step away from being in the weeds of practicing to actually understand that there was a bigger problem to solve.

[9:19] I started thinking about what it is that patients really need to enable them to do what it was that I wanted them to do as a clinician because I realized that it wasn’t…The piece of paper wasn’t really doing the job

[9:33] That’s where the seed started to grow, at the same time is when video technology became pervasive and accessible to all. It just built upon itself. It started as a very simple idea which was, we’ll take these pieces of paper and replace them with beautifully filmed videos.

[10:01] Then we realized that as healthcare was changing, this could actually solve an even greater problem which is an $850 billion problem. That is how much the US healthcare system spends on musculoskeletal disease every year, and growing.

[10:21] Thinking about how enabling patients, empowering patients to do what they need to do, can actually help to take cost out the system became very compelling. That’s when we decided, this really has legs. This is a real business, it’s really solving a big problem.

Steven: [10:39] That’s like the next thinking, right? You’re thinking about not just a practice or even a couple of practices, you’re thinking about a national or global problem.

Bronwyn: [10:49] Yeah.

Steven: [10:50] Thinking about your solution can scale to meet the needs and challenges of so many people. It’s a different level of thinking, but it seems like that shift, you went from an “aha” moment to doing something…

Unity: [11:04] Starting something one, a couple of patients in your own problem.

Bronwyn: [11:06] It was really the, a microcosm of what the greater situation could have been and now is. This bundled care movement, which is right in our wheelhouse, is really gaining ground now in health care. Our solution happens to really speak to all of those issues and answer a lot of those problems that bundled care is trying to solve.

Steven: [11:30] Did someone instigate you to think bigger or to think about expanding or the applicability of expanding your idea and to hit more people? Or was it just inherently in kind of…

Bronwyn: [11:41] No. Mark, my co‑founder, Mark Lieberman, also my husband.

Steven: [11:45] Your partner partner.

Bronwyn: [11:47] Partner partner in all things, is himself a multiple entrepreneur and has big visions. He’s interesting, because his skill sets are so complementary to mine and totally different, and yet for some reason, they just round out the picture.

[12:11] Him having this experience in business health care media space really helped me to keep thinking big. He was really encouraging of this vision. But why should it only be in physical therapy? Why should we only do orthopedics?

[12:28] This evolution is certainly, definitely a big contributing factor with our partnership.

Steven: [12:36] Talk a little bit about how you finally found product market fit within moving this from a practice in deploying the product there, to actually a much larger set of customers and partners, and how you finally figured out, seems like really a very unique way of explaining what you do and what your goal is to improve as many lives as possible.

Bronwyn: [13:01] It’s been an interesting journey.

Steven: [13:04] It always is, right?

Bronwyn: [13:05] We started off in my comfort zone, which is physical therapy. I built a product that I thought would be perfect for physical therapy practices, because they could be more efficient and they could think about how to get patients better faster. Which is all we think about all day long.

[13:24] Very quickly came to the realization that disruption is not necessarily welcomed in a lot of business situations.

Unity: [13:32] By practitioners, by the industry?

Bronwyn: [13:34] Well, so today we’re very still stuck in fee for service, especially in the physical therapy industry. Actually, the product that I was bringing to these therapists was ultimately cannibalizing their business.

Steven: [13:49] They were threatened by what you were offering?

Bronwyn: [13:51] Yes, absolutely.

Steven: [13:52] A lot of entrepreneurs face that problem today, which is, they’re not thinking about or talking about how it impacts somebody’s pocketbook.

Bronwyn: [14:00] Absolutely.

Steven: [14:00] Therefore, there’s winners and losers.

Bronwyn: [14:02] The biggest surprise to me was, I’m a physical therapist. I don’t think it’s threatening. Like, why are these people so afraid? But I do get it, actually. This is their bread and butter, this is all they know, it’s all they do.

[14:18] We thought a lot about it and at the same time as we were getting a lot of push back from physical therapists, and there are certainly a bunch of very forward thinking physical therapists that are using the platform today that are thinking about how to deliver care in this new health care landscape.

[14:37] I’m not talking across the board here. But it is a very fragmented industry. A lot of these mom and pop shops are really just reliant on how many visits they can see in a day. Of course, all of that is changing and we have StartUp Health think that healthcare is changing for the better. This is a very hard thing for an individual clinicians to see…

Unity: [14:59] Did you have to go door by door and knocking on doors?

Bronwyn: [15:02] We started off that way. Then we had a big shift in our thinking. We thought about it very long and hard and thought, “Who is really quarterbacking this change? Who are the people that are really going to win by enabling this shift to the home?”

[15:24] In a bundle case situation, it’s really the orthopedic surgeons that are quarterbacking this whole change. They are the ones that are probably going to be 99 percent of the time, controlling the bundle. Which means that for them, they need to find creative ways to manage cost.

Steven: [15:42] Explain the bundle.

Bronwyn: [15:44] Sure.

Steven: [15:45] It’s important especially for people who are just getting up to speed on some of the changes that are coming with the Affordable Care Act and some of the new ways and lingo people are using.

Bronwyn: [15:56] OK. The way that the Affordable Care Act dictates, we now look at care instead of each service provided having a fee attached to it. That’s fee‑for‑service. We’re now moving to an episode of care basis. Which means that, if you have a total knee replacement, from pre‑surgery to full recovery, there’s one payment. A bundled payment that covers all those individual services throughout the course of that patient’s care.

[16:24] When we looked at those episode payments, we realize that 41 percent of the total episode cost was in the post‑acute care phase.

Unity: [16:34] There’s where you want to shift…

Bronwyn: [16:35] That means not surgery, not anesthesiology, not hospital fees, not medication. Post‑acute care. That’s physical therapy. We have radiology, follow‑up visits.

[16:48] We thought about that and thought, “Well, in these kind of episodes of care, is that much really warranted if you have a suitable replacement?” What we did was we tried to encapsulate the rehab experience on video as much as we can. What is that mean? Education exercise videos, how to do avoid infection, how to recognize a DVT.

[17:15] We put all of that into a package that we now deliver to a patient once they’ve had surgery. That patient can access this resource 24/7 on their mobile phone or their computer. In doing so, we’ve reduced a good amount of costs.

Steven: [17:32] You’re getting to the patient through the orthopedic surgeon. The patients using your service, who is paying for your service then?

Bronwyn: [17:42] The orthopedic surgery centers, the hospitals are paying for access to the platform. There is a one‑time per patient fee. We have not had pushback on that because the patients realized that even by saving one copay, they’re still winning. They have this…

Unity: [18:03] Plus they don’t need to drive in to the clinic every day or every week.

Bronwyn: [18:04] Yes, exactly.

Unity: [18:07] They can do it in the comfort of their own home?

Bronwyn: [18:10] Yes, they can do it in the comfort of their own home and they’re always connected to their healthcare provider team. We have a very strong communication portal where a patient can post a question, any member of their care team can answer their question in real time. A lot of the resources are already there for them.

Steven: [18:31] I was just going to say I’m assuming once people answer some questions they go into a library to access for the future?

Bronwyn: [18:35] Correct. One of our key performance indicators, KPIs, which I’m sure you guys all know about, is to reduce call volume to doctor’s offices. Because one of the things we hear when we talk to care teams, and that is surgeons, nurses, PAs, you name it, medical assistants, one of their biggest complaints is, “I get 45 calls a day from patients asking me the same question over and over again.”

[19:02] We started thinking about that and thought “Well, that is not a good use of time. You are a busy clinician. Why do you want to say the same thing 45 times?” So we made a video of it. Now it lives in the patient’s FORCE platform and any time they access their platform, and it is all very personalized and individualized. If you have a shoulder replacement you are going to get a different set of, we call them FAQ videos. Then, if you have knee replacement…

Steven: [19:27] You can bring that to every customer, that is not different video by customer is it?

Bronwyn: [19:31] We do custom content. We do create custom content, but by now we have a pretty extensive library. I call it PT101. Certainly joint replacements are covered in there. As we branch into more and more aspects of health care like cardiac recovery, neurosurgical recovery we are doing next. You name it. We continue to bolster our library, create content, along with our partners.

Steven: [20:00] A big shift in even the last couple of years is you are now well‑entrenched into the impact of the Affordable Care Act. We talk a lot about how it is a treasure trove of opportunities for entrepreneurs. It seems like now as you have found that product market fit, you were just describing your target customer. It is very clear who you are calling on and who you need to bring in. It is not the physical therapists anymore, which was who you were calling on in the beginning.

Bronwyn: [20:27] Yeah.

Steven: [20:28] Now it’s the orthopedic surgeons and surgery centers in clinics. When you think about patients who want to just come direct to you, is there still an option for them?

Bronwyn: [20:40] We have a lightweight consumer app, called “FORCE Injury Packs.” That is a flight of care that we created along with the best orthopedic surgeons, physical therapists, Force injury doctors. It is a one stop shop. It gives advice to patients.

[21:00] If you have sprained your ankle, ice or heat. It tells you what exercises you should be doing and what you shouldn’t be doing, which in physical therapy is often the most important thing you can tell your patients. Then, it tracks your recovery for you.

[21:13] It allows you to set goals and track your recovery against those goals. It is standalone. It doesn’t have the provider engaged. But it is just a consumer solution for those who want to self‑solve minor injuries.

Steven: [21:29] When you look out three, four, five years, what does FORCE look like in terms of its user base? Is it mostly going to be through the providers and less so directly from their patients?

Bronwyn: [21:42] Right now, we are focused on top of the Pyramid Healthcare Systems. We are working with a lot of orthopedic surgery centers as well as integrated delivery networks, which are very interesting to us because they are the payer as well. Our next evolution is to…

Steven: [22:01] Do you think that more holistic approach is more efficient, a smarter way to go?

Bronwyn: [22:06] They certainly understand the benefit of a system like FORCE because there are more stakeholders that win. When we think about who benefits from our platform, it is always the patient first. Then probably the provider second, but certainly the payer. They are the ones that are really benefiting as well.

[22:30] With an integrated delivery network, they are their own payer. They are seeing that value today. I think that that will permeate. I do see FORCE as landing in the payers’ pocket at some point, where they are picking up the per patient fee.

Steven: [22:47] I love how even though your customer is not necessarily the patient, the paying customer, you are still a very patient‑centric, both voice and product. You keep talking about the value creation engine here and how everybody benefits but it keeps back to seeming like you are very, very insanely focused on patient value.

Bronwyn: [23:07] Yeah and…

Unity: [23:09] I am curious about that in terms of technology, because when you are introducing new technology to your patients, what was that process like and how did they adopt the new technology?

Bronwyn: [23:21] That is a great question and one that we think about all day long. We’ve come to this place now where we understand that technology can be scary. You can’t just dump a technology solution on a patient, a hospital, a provider. Health care is still personal for patients and for providers. We really needed a bridge that helped people engage with our technology, understand the value and a little bit of hand‑holding.

[23:56] We created a department within our company called “Patient Success.” That department’s key goal in life is to make our patients successful with FORCE and providers, too. What we do now is we spend a lot of time understanding our providers’ workflow within the hospital, who is responsible for discharge planning, who is communicating to the patient, so that we can make sure that the message is the same.

[24:25] Then, our Patient Success team calls the patient prior to surgery, gets them logged in, makes sure they can login, see their exercises. In a lot of cases, practice their exercises before surgery, then take a lot of the anxiety out of the process.

[24:42] One thing that we have found with a lot of patients is that anxiety about recovery is all about not knowing what to expect. We use our Patient Success team to set expectations. Here is what it is going to look like. Once you have finished your surgery you are going to be discharged one or maybe two days post‑surgery, which is a very different thing to what a lot of patients expect. They expect, they are having their knee replaced, they are going to be in the hospital for two weeks.

Steven: [25:11] Right.

Bronwyn: [25:12] That is no longer the way it works.

Unity: [25:13] You are making it less intimidating and educating them as they are…

Bronwyn: [25:16] By providing them that information. We really feel that because health care is so personal, because we are dealing with people and not things, we have to bring in this human element. We do work one‑on one with the patients still. In a lightweight way, we don’t take on clinical questions or anything like that. But we just want to make them successful with our technology.

Steven: [25:39] What are your KPIs…Do you have KPIs? Key Performance Indicators. What are your total attraction? How are some of this is working and how you are viewing success in monthly quarterly increments?

Bronwyn: [25:48] Couple of the things that we looked at, are around patient engagements. Patient engagement is this term that is getting thrown around, it’s a lot like a bus word. Before talking about patient engagement, we think about what that is, and what it means for us.

[26:09] For us, it means that patients log in daily for a long period of time.

Unity: [26:15] Because you want to see they are doing their exercises and doing their routine.

Bronwyn: [26:18] Exactly. Our goal is to make it like brushing your teeth. Do it twice a day without fail. We measure and monitor how many times patients log in and how long they stay on the platforms.

Unity: [26:31] You report that back to your customers.

Bronwyn: [26:33] Absolutely.

Steven: [26:34] There’s an analytics component.

Bronwyn: [26:36] There’s a big analytics component and we are actually working on creating a proprietary algorithm that will help us understand what an activated patient looks like. Because activated patients, which are patients that are engaged and active in their care, are more successful patients.

[26:52] They recover better, they recover faster and they have fewer re‑admissions. That’s really what we’re looking at when we think about KPIs for patients. Today, we have a very high, about an 84 percent engagement rate for people…

Steven: [27:09] 84 percent?

Bronwyn: [27:10] 84 percent of patients are logging in and our average length of engagement is nine and a half weeks…

Steven: [27:18] Right. You are about to bring that and talk to about that average with each customer and where their benchmarks might want to be or should be or could be, correct?

Bronwyn: [27:27] And because this is all brave new world, there are no baseline matrix.

Steven: [27:31] You’re giving them the baseline matrix?

Bronwyn: [27:32] We’re actually in a lot of cases, developing and educating our provider organizations on base practices and what they should be looking at.

Steven: [27:41] The data plays a huge role.

Bronwyn: [27:43] Data is huge.

[27:43] [crosstalk]

Unity: [27:45] It’s interesting because you’ve got a mobile platform. This is a home health care solution and there’s a big data analytics component to what you are doing.

Bronwyn: [27:54] Yes, there’s a big piece of data that nobody is actually collecting which is patient reported outcomes. We are collecting that today from patients at a very regular interval so that we can report back to providers how their patients are doing.

[28:16] Also, get an understanding of who needs intervention. What does the patient look like that needs more intervention, what does a patient look like with no intervention.

Steven: [28:26] What kind of numbers are you talking? Do you talk probably about how many patients are using the platform, or how many doctors or many practices are?

Bronwyn: [28:33] We have a thousands of patients at the platform at this time. I’d say hundreds of providers. We have different kinds of providers. We have physical therapists on the platform, before we’re thinking forms. We have orthopedics surgeons and their care teams. Then, we also have integrated delivery providers that are using the platform. Those are three big buckets. It’s exponential because each of those has their own group of patients and…

Steven: [29:05] Paint a picture of the future and where this goes a few years from now or five years out from now. What’s the vision in what happens?

Bronwyn: [29:18] My goal will be that FORCE is the standard of care for post‑acute recovery. I would like to see pervasive in every orthopedic diagnosis. That opportunity is actually to collect data on protocols that are successful. If providers need to understand what’s working and what isn’t, we house all of that data.

[29:53] We house it from patient reported outcome measures, pain scales, time to recovery. All our key matrix will help us to understand what is a successful recovery look like as well as which patients are at risk for readmission. Once we get critical mass, we will be able to disseminate that information in a very useful way.

[30:23] Globally, we want to change how health care is delivered in this country. We want to take a bunch of cost out of this system. We want to help patients recover faster and better. We want to make the whole process much more seamless and less scary for patients.

Steven: [30:39] Love it. I want to say great from that into a little bit about your lifestyle because how you manage and juggle all of these being the mom, working with your husband, still practicing, being CEO and taking on an enormous challenge and building an exponentially growing company that has a huge, clearly huge opportunity in front of it.

[30:59] What are some of your daily habits and things that you do to juggle or prioritize and triage each of the things that are dang out?

Bronwyn: [31:09] It is daily challenge but it’s a great challenge to have. Each of these things feeds me so well. Being with my kids is just the best gift life can give. Working with my husband is amazing. We often wonder to each other, how would we do this if we weren’t married? Because you can imagine what our dinner conversation table is like nine times out of 10.

[31:34] It’s not in a way that is oppressive, because we are so excited about this company that it’s just fun to talk about it. That’s a big piece of it. I have such an amazing team. It’s taken us a while to find just the right people, but I can say that every single member of my team is a rock star and I don’t think we could do what we do without them being…Each of them is just exceptionally passionate about what they do.

[32:07] They believe in the vision. They see it on a day to day basis. They can see every day how they’re impacting peoples lives. Job satisfaction is right there. They really bring their energy and their passion to work every single day.

Unity: [32:22] How many people do you have in the team right now?

Bronwyn: [32:23] I have 12 full‑time people right now. Then we have a couple of part‑time. We have a production crew that we hire when we’re doing filming, and editing, and that kind of thing. We keep most of it in‑house. Our technology is in‑house, and that’s been a great thing for us too.

Steven: [32:43] What was that transition like, focusing on working with patients, and then building technology?

Bronwyn: [32:50] It’s funny. I had a moment there where I was like, “This doesn’t feel right.” Then once it started to click, and I saw what the product could deliver, it felt like I was doing what I’ve always done. Helping people get better. The transition was there, but it’s ended up in the same place.

Steven: [33:13] Thinking back and looking back I should say, and if you were to talk to yourself three years ago when you were starting the company, and you wish you would have known something that you know now. What would it be? Maybe some of the advice you’d give to health care transformers, either current or future health care transformers, who are thinking about jumping in. What would you have told yourself?

Bronwyn: [33:36] I would tell people to be confident that what they believe to be true is true. It’s so easy in the early days to doubt yourself, to doubt your vision, to doubt your process.

[33:55] You will make mistakes. We made tons of mistakes along the way. At the same time, those mistakes have brought us to this place. It’s all just been following that vision of helping the patients, and reinventing health care.

[34:12] You just have to keep your eye on that the whole time.

Unity: [34:16] Believe. And how has it been for you? You surrounded yourself with lots of other entrepreneurs. I know you’ve got a great advisory board. We’ve had the opportunity to work with you for a long time. How has that been to have other peers around you, a peer network of other people building in the sector?

Bronwyn: [34:36] I think that in a way that can help you not give up, because what we’re doing with health care, and I say “we” collectively here [laughs] , is hard. We really are reinventing an entire industry. Knowing that other people have that belief and that vision, helps you move forward and press forward. You guys, have been so instrumental in guiding us as a company, and I see how you work with other companies.

[35:19] If I were to look back again, I would say that a lot of times the advice or the learnings that you shared, and our other health care transformers shared, is also valuable, but it didn’t have any meaning at that time. Yet, there are days now later on in the process when I can think back and say, “I remember having this discussion at one of our round table summits.” It all comes full circle somehow.

[35:49] You just have to be a sponge. Absorb everything. Stuff that you can’t use right now you put away somewhere, but it’s there so you can access it later.

Steven: [35:57] Yeah, it’s one of the reasons. The long term nature of StartUp Health is specifically, because it’s going to take a long time for us, as an army of entrepreneurs, to transform health care. I loved how you just articulated the…you weren’t ready for the message at the time, but then you’ve recalled it at the right time. It’s all being absorbed, and you’re immersed in that pure network.

Bronwyn: [36:17] Absolutely.

Steven: [36:18] I know you’ve leveraged that pure network a lot to help you build the company.

[36:23] Any last words you’d like to leave us with, as we wrap up? I really am impressed with what you and Mark have been able to do with your team. We’ve watched you navigate a lot of obstacles, and you’ve done it with grace. It’s been really wonderful to have been a part of and participated in that. I’m very excited for you. Any last words you’d like health care transformers with, or entrepreneurs with, or anyone listening?

Unity: [36:49] Or other practitioners maybe thinking of becoming an entrepreneur.

Steven: [36:53] Or moms who are thinking about becoming entrepreneurs.

Bronwyn: [36:57] Listen, life can be so rich when you’re doing fulfilling work. If you think about what you’re doing, and it’s having a huge impact not only on one patient at a time, but the entire United States health care system, you’re doing good work. Keep it up.

Steven: [37:17] Fantastic. And where can people find more information about FORCE?

Bronwyn: [37:21]

Steven: [37:22] Fantastic. Can they go in the apps store and download the app?

Bronwyn: [37:25] They can download the app on iTunes or Android. FORCE Century Pack is the consumer app. If you’re a patient, you get your own special app.

Steven: [37:32] Love it. Thank you so much for spending the time with us. It’s such a pleasure working with you and thank you.

Bronwyn: [37:36] Thank you. It’s been great being here.

Steven: [37:37] Thank you for joining us for the latest episode of StartUp Health Now. You can find all episodes now on iTunes, and our YouTube channel, at Have a good day. Take care.

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