MedTech Startup Selfapy Offers Psychological Help Without Wait #GSA22
Executive Summary
Nora is the CEO and co-founder of Berlin-based Medtech Selfapy, a major provider of prescribable digital therapy solutions in Germany. She is the winner of this year's German Startup Award for Female Founder of the Year 2022 and a Forbes 30 under 30. She is a psychologist by training with degrees from York and Cambridge but decided to join startups early on, to later found Selfapy. Self-pay fills the void for patients while they are waiting for psychological treatments, which may take three to six months. After a long journey they now even have a reimbursement certification for German health insurers.
“I always had the idea to create something to help people with mental disorders”
Nora Blum, CEO and co-founder Selfapy
German Startup Awards 2022
This interview is in media partnership with the German startup association (Bundesverband Deutscher Startups https://deutschestartups.org/). Their German Startup Awards #GSA22 honor each year outstanding female and male founders and investors in special categories. You can learn more about the winners in our interview and on this website:
You can also have a look at our history, we also interviewed many winners of the German Startup Awards 2021 already.
“We really need to change the way we think about mental health”
Nora Blum, CEO and co-founder Selfapy
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The Video Interview is set to go live on Tuesday, November 29th, 2022
The Audio Interview
You can subscribe to our podcasts here.
The Founder
Our guest Nora Blum (https://www.linkedin.com/in/nora-blum-selfapy/) is not only the winner of this year's German Startup Awards for Female Entrepreneur of the Year, but she is also a Forbes 30 under 30. She graduated from the University of York and the University of Cambridge with degrees in Psychology, before joining Rocket Internet. She later became City Head for Foodora in Hamburg and decided one faithful new years day that with this stress level, she could also venture out on her own, with larger rewards. Growing up in a family of psychologists, she decided early on to help people with mental disorders. She co-founded Selfapy in Berlin in 2016.
The Startup
Berlin-based Selfapy (https://www.selfapy.com/) addresses the issue of wait time for psychological treatments. Due to recent changes in German legislation, they are also available on prescription. The name Selfapy is a combination of self and therapy. The app bridges the wait time before a patient can see a psychologist, which can take up to 6 months. The app not only bridges this time but can also already help patients and lay the groundwork for therapy.
Selfapy runs clinical trials, where they could show that they reduce depression symptoms by up to 40% in 3 months.
Venture Capital Funding
Selfapy has raised 30 M US$ in funding in total. Note that Crunchbase is quite a bit outdated here. They are open to talking to new investors.
Selfapy is Hiring
You can have a look at their jobs website to learn more
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Topics Discussed in this Interview
In this interview we are talking about psychology, depression, psychological therapy, psychological help, eating disorders, prescription, apps on prescription, mental health, mental health apps, depression treatment, Berlin, startup, startups, mental health startup, MedTech startup, health care startup, venture capital, university of york, university of Cambridge
Automated Transcript
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Music.
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Startuprad.io startup podcast and YouTube blog covering the German-speaking startup scene
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Music.
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Hello and welcome everybody this is Joe from startuprad.io and today I have another guest in our cooperation with the German startup Association the female founder of the year
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20:21 Nora hey welcome hi Joe thanks for having me totally my pleasure and congratulations.
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Thank you those actually 2022 if I may already correct you in minute one time to time.
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Yes 20 22 I’m sorry and you’re also Forbes 30 under 30 and a half to be a little bit careful because you can analyze me you study psychology that is very interesting how he got into startup but first can you tell us a little bit how you studied
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psychology in York.
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And made a mess says there in Cambridge then went into like real treatment positions and then at one point propped up by drackett internet can you take us along this journey.
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That’s of course very happy to so I grew up in a family of
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everyone was like a therapist or psychologist so I grew up only really with psychologists like analytics everyone very close to me can I interrupt you a little bit what have been the discussions.
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At the dining table in the evening with your parents are analyzed you
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yeah we all analyzed each other no you didn’t when I when I say that I grew up in such a family everyone’s like oh shit I’m so sorry for you like that must have been horrible but to be honest I always saw it as a huge privilege because.
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Everyone was very aware of feelings and everyone was.
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Discussing problems always very openly and I also learned the techniques of how to make myself feel good and how to not deal with problems.
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Very early on Words and I feel like it really helped me to build up a lot of resilience that other people don’t have and.
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I always yeah I really saw it as a huge privilege to grow up with psychology in my in my jeans really.
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So it’s no surprise to you started.
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Studying psychology why did he go to York yeah I started studying psychology because I always felt like.
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Apart from my family I always wanted to know about how people react why they react the way they do
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how they turn out to be the people that they are in the end and this is always been topics that interested me a lot sty
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chose to study psychology I wanted to study in the UK because I liked the whole College set up I also wanted to learn better English at that time so for me I just felt like I wanted to be somewhere else but not too far from home and UK and Germany is I guess.
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Far away and I’m I also got a got a scholarship to pay for the tuition fee so for me that was a very logical thing to do
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and had a really really great time studying psychology in York and then moved on to Cambridge which was also great to learn about the canvas live there and to really learn from really great professors about how the mind works and I’m.
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Very thankful that I was given that opportunity to really live there for the for the four years five years almost and learned so much about the how the human mind works it was great yeah.
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Mmm did he also get to love fish and chips I love fish and chips I do I still eat a quite lot in front of it to be honest.
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And then you started a normal I would say clinical career right treating people with it like that.
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Not really is I did all my internships during my studies I always did them in the clinical sector so I went to psychiatric hospitals and work they’re usually in Hamburg but also sometimes in the UK and
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I was working alongside the patient’s and learned how the actual clinical work of psychologist is like.
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And also of course I always knew how the work is structured in a way also from home of course since my mom has that has a practice in Hamburg however I then.
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Decided not to continue down that path I think for me at that time.
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I thought it was very interesting to to work in a psychiatric hospital but it also.
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I also felt like I want to do something else with my life first of all I I kind of miss that atmosphere of
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young people that want to want to change something that want to have that want to build something I was also felt like I wanted to see the startup World more so then I applied for Rocket internet and.
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Yeah and then I move that completely changed fields and but to be honest back then I already always had the idea of creating something in the end that would help people with mental health disorders and I felt like I needed to learn how to.
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Build a company first and where better place to do that than rocket into them and you’re entered rocket internet classically in the h.
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In an HR function rate yeah I stayed there for two months and then I was
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thankfully given the opportunity to move on to the Venture development part and I worked as a venture development which means that
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you are allowed to see different startups that are different Ventures that rocket internet was building at that time and you always are responsible for one part and I was in different companies of Rocket internet involved the longest I spent actually at the company at the food delivery service for Dora.
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Um where was building up different functions in the organization and then led the team in Hamburg as a city had for I think six months.
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And there was a very special day there for you at Fedora right
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those many special days working in rocket internet I have to say sometimes I felt like it’s not that far away from working in a psychiatric hospital to be honest but there was one very special day working a fedora and which was the the one day where I decided to.
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To quit we’re decided to start my own thing was on the first.
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Of January so just after New Year’s I think I was in 2015 and I’m to that time I was working as a city hadn’t Hamburg and.
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So the food delivery how it works is that all the the writers they all had bikes and as you can imagine on the first of January
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all the writers that we have they all were hungover first of all from the New Year’s Eve party so they all came to the office like getting their bike they were all
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part of them were they were already drunk still then there were hungover I was just like feeling so bad of even letting them cycle to be honest and then of course on the first of January there’s glass everywhere because people smash
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bottles of the New Year’s and four for everyone our American audience we should say the consumption of alcohol even from bottles is permitted
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in Germany so that’s why trance yes exactly so but the Americans go with what did they do yeah that’s totally normal you stand there and you fire a few rockets in the area have a few boom going on and then you your somebody.
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Takes out a bottle of second term champagne and you just shared that they have classes I need to share it with your neighbors right and of course glasses pothole they shatter their people are drunk.
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People are a little bit crazy so it has.
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Yes that’s what happened so there’s so much glass on the streets in Germany everywhere on the first of January and of course all the bikes
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broken so these already super hungover / still drunk drivers had to go into the to the office again
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and I was working as the only person already from the beginning of the day I was off course myself very hungover but I had to deal with this whole situation of already having
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to View Drive 250 Riders those that I had they had no working bikes anymore than all the rest wrongs they were surprisingly close despite telling us that they were open I had restaurants called and complaining at customers
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all wanted to order burgers and of course because everyone’s hungover at no writers to delivered so many people screaming and it was such days literally the worst danger start the year so stressful.
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And
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I just felt like at the end of the day I worked like a 10-hour shift and at the end of the day I’m just like God screw this I can I no longer want to do this for a company that’s doing food delivery if I want to
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be treated like that if I want to do that crazy stuff I can do it for my own own company and I can do it to help people with mental health disorders.
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Ba that’s what we get into the next spot because I was wondering how did he decide.
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What problem to solve how did he have the stud up a deer in the back of your mind
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yeah so this really arose very much from the situation that we’re in in Germany so Joe do you know the average waiting time to see a psychotherapist in Germany at the moment.
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Unfortunately no I don’t I tell you it’s very long you wait on average five month to see if psychotherapist in Germany.
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And this is starting from the point where you try to reach out for help right so you’re already feeling.
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Really really bad you suffer from a depression or an anxiety you want to see if psychotherapist because you want to deal with your problem and then you have to wait for 5 months on average which is.
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Ridiculous I think it’s way too long time to see if psychotherapist it’s.
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Not like the whole system doesn’t work here in Germany from the way I see it and it’s a time where usually these people suffering they don’t get any help whatsoever the symptoms they get worse and worse because they’re not being treated and.
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It really
it’s a horrible situation for the patients and this is something that I already noticed very early on Words again from.
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From my home as well with my mom having so many people calling her asking for place with her and she.
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Keeps the having to tell them I’m sorry I don’t have a place anymore I’m full and I realized that this is a situation that I find ink
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incredibly frustrating that parrot with the with a fact that people are still feeling very ashamed to see a psychotherapist or doctor and oftentimes they don’t want to speak directly with anyone about their mental health conditions and.
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We really need to change the way we think about mental health and we need to offer people a quicker solution until mental health and something that is also a lower barrier so even for people that self is stigmatized I can.
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Success anything at least and this is how we came up with self-abuse so self would be is awarding combined of self and therapy so I’m to self-help
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product and we wanted to create digital Therapy Solutions that would.
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Give people with depression with anxiety the chance to really get this help very early on Words and to do it from their own home so not having to really speak to a psychotherapist but to learn the techniques of cognitive behavioral therapy.
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In their own time and from home
and.
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Is it to replace up psychotherapist is it in add on to the treatment or is it.
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Just additional solution to help those people yeah.
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So it really depends on a lot of people use self piece of online therapy products and to bridge the waiting time to see a psychotherapist so when you’re being totally you still have to wait for 5 months then you can access our app.
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And use that as a bridge to the waiting time and however for some people especially those with mild symptoms.
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A good app can already help so I’m
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we also run of course clinical trials the whole time we just completed off of clinical trial and for example in the last clinical trial that was recently published also online with a with a journal we could show that we actually reduce the symptoms of depression but almost 40%
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after three months which is quite a high symptom reduction that we can achieve so for a lot of people
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they go yourself p and then afterwards they don’t actually need them psychotherapist anymore which of course is.
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Is what we work we try to get as well to really help the people as much as we can already my understanding is the app
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tracks when you doing well and when you’re doing not so well and it helps you to discover what kind of triggers those feelings.
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That’s one part of it yeah so the way it works is that you the base product lasts for three months and within this three months you start you’re doing different tests on the beginning so we get to know you better we understand what your condition is we understand
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um
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what your main problems are for example within your depression whether you have specifically a problem with your self-esteem or with your more condition whether it’s more related to stress or whatever and then based on that you get individually tailored content.
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That really helps you to first of all understand your condition better and that helps you to understand really
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what is wrong with me and why do I feel like that and then also really gives you the concrete techniques.
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To make yourself feel better this is being delivered with the help of videos from psychologists and but also tailored exercises
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a lot of text delivered and the user basically learns.
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Why for example negative thoughts arise then they then they document their own negative thoughts and then they really are being
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told the techniques of how to make these negative thoughts stop in a way onto how to deal with those and this is the way it works so you really get always the structured content.
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But of course as it is with cognitive behavioural therapy usually which is something that we base the products on is that you always try to.
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Do a daily product calling of what you’ve been doing and with whom you’ve been involved.
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How you feeling what your thoughts are and we also give this pattern analysis to the user than afterwards
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so they really get the feedback okay which I actually the activities that make me feel better or which are the activities that make me feel worse and then we can build up on that knowledge to really find a more healthy a better routine for you in your everyday life so that you
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you don’t just have the the activities that make you feel worse but also always plan some highlights in your day.
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Is that something the app can share later on when the people are breaching
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the time until the treatment with the specialist actually treating them or is it yep sorry are we interrupted
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yes it’s possible and no of course I’m it’s something that’s very important to us as well so we don’t want to be an isolated solution so we work together quite well with different clinics but also with I’m Different practices.
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Of psychotherapist so and when they use us as a bridge for waiting time we always asked to using the end to export all the data that.
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That they’ve been given us and then export that and give that to that psychotherapist so the psychotherapist can see all right this is the average symptoms that they have this is the patterns that arise from the daily quota calling this is the activities that make
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if you better distinctive does that make them feel worse and also this is the different content that the user has already.
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Has already been learned so they probably know how the concept of.
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I’m of negative thoughts for example is developing so for the psychotherapist is usually it is quite nice because the the patient comes in and already knows a bit about cognitive behavioral therapy and they don’t have to start yeah with
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yeah.
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Understood and what kind of sentence can get treat and how successful is it you already said 40% in one clinical trial.
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Yeah and so we currently have some product available for people with a depression for people with generalized anxiety disorder and for people with panic disorder.
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And by the end of the year we’re launching two more products and for people with eating disorders so I’m just binge eating and believe me I would just two more product.
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Which kind of results do we have so
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we are running with all these with all of these five different products we’ve completed randomized control trials within pendant and
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research on organization so for example we work a lot with the charity together which you also published the last study on with regards to do pressure course.
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We may add for our International audience charity is one of the biggest clinks in Berlin right.
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Yes that’s true sorry thanks so much thanks for adding that and yeah we always do control trial so we assess the symptom reductions for patient using.
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So Alpha P compared to a control group and then of course always aiming for significant differences and big effect sizes
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and we also assess of course how much the symptoms of decrease over time and we have between 20 and 40 percent Sims and reductions in all of our online therapy courses depending on the application
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you will have towards the end of the year so it’s beginning on November not too far away five products out there how.
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Is the house payment arranged because in Germany you can get.
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Apps on prescription are you there in those lists that actually psychotherapists of psychologists can prescribe the app lets say for 36 months until the people can get into their treatment.
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Yes good question very important because yes we are actually one of the the major provider of
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describable digital Therapy Solutions in Germany and so we’ve been in the in the field right for 67 years already and.
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To have all online therapy products be reimbursed by the health insurances was always our top priority because we felt like.
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We don’t want the patient to pay for therapy themselves and also in Germany it’s a bit different than compared to the US for example in Germany patients are usually used to having the health insurance is pay for everything because this is how the system works so if you go to a doctor it’s all being
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always covered also traditional Psychotherapy is always being covered by the health insurances but you do have this one waiting time if you don’t want to have this one waiting time you have to.
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So we always felt like okay so we are medical products they’re certified we have our City Trials I can show the effectiveness so why are we not being reimbursed by the health insurance has this is something that we’ve been working on quite heavily in the past seven years.
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And first of all starting with individual contracts with health insurances so also that on the site and we have over 100 different health insurance is here in Little Germany and we started off with individual insurance contracts where they would pay for the online therapist.
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For their injuries but then we started lobbying for that law really early on Words as well to have a general reimbursement a place for all Health insurances and.
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This is what came to play son and 2019 and we were actually the first impression a pinhole Germany that got that certification to be reimbursed by all Health insurances.
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Um it’s quite a.
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Quite a difficult certification as you know Joe maybe there’s only a handful of actually apps that managed to get the certification and and are reimbursable Vault insurances but yeah we currently have these three products.
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Look at that are being reimbursed by the health insurances.
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It was a very long and very frustrating way but we were super proud of was actually the biggest Milestone when we got that reimbursement certification it’s just a long long and tiring process yeah.
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How does it then work do you need to get your two additional products also certified or is it just.
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Yeah I know we are we are currently in the certification period without eating disorder courses and the way it works is that they mostly check the clinical data
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I’m so how good is your product actually reducing symptoms but they of course also always check
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for data security which is very important you need to have this interoperable standards so
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be able to be integrated into the electronic patient record and their future all these kind of different things your product has to be medical sound you have to be medical certified medical product you have to have all these different certifications with regards to data security information security
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of course because it’s just so important and yeah the the institution checks for all of this
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about to do have the certification you can actually be treated as
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prescription drug here in Germany so doctors and psychotherapist I can write to you on this prescription paper as they do with antidepressants for example and then yeah they can give that to patients and patients can just hand it into their insurance and completely get the products without any any money
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they have to spend
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hmm very interesting system for our International audience in Germany you are required by law to have a health insurance
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yeah so everybody is it is
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covered going a little bit away from that you are also startup and I’ve seen you’ve been found a 2016.
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You raced something like six point six million u.s. dollars I assume seat and proceed and so we erased like 30 million and total so far
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Cody oh yeah and the crunch basis outdated I’m sorry and I’m the last one that we did in one was that I was someone you December 2019 so in December that we raised 6.7 or something like that yeah.
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I understand and your investors include a high-tech corner for where we actually have an interview with Alex from frankenberg.
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We look at down here Maverick Founders about see think Health as a chess Capital would you be open to talk to new investors.
00:23:01.211 → 00:23:04.572
Yeah of course always open I think
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so I was always kind of fundraising on the site and we actually a fundraising right now for the next steps with regards to internationalisation of online therapy products so yeah definitely open.
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And are you currently hiring.
00:23:20.161 → 00:23:30.499
Yeah I think um it was always hiring so we specifically hiring at the moment for I’m salespeople so actually people on the ground that it can do the sales for doctors and psychotherapist
00:23:30.289 → 00:23:35.873
and then of course as everyone we’re always looking for developers but
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but that’s the usual answers I get sometimes a few Specialists I just had a startup that helps with it with an AI to do some metal casting yes they also look for engineers especially with the experience in metal casting chemist and stuff like this but for every startup so it’s like
00:23:52.939 → 00:24:00.512
sales and developers but Specialized Sales for you right everybody who would like to learn more we link it
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down here in the show notes there will be a link to your career site that you’ll share after the interview with me right.
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My career side yes of self I be.
00:24:11.672 → 00:24:20.146
Well do the jobs are listed because all right oh that’s what you mean yeah of course yeah I’ll try that of course yes because.
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This interview will stay alive for a few years and I assume the rose to be filled hopefully vastly expand and are also.
00:24:32.197 → 00:24:34.883
Very varying hopefully.
00:24:35.159 → 00:24:42.436
Yeah I guess so of course not again congratulations for your German starboard
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it was a pleasure talking to you and hope to have you back after let’s say the next successful fundraising perfect thanks for having me Jose pleasure only my pleasure have a great day bye bye.
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Music.
