“Except mine was far more excessive and aggressive than your typical soft white supremacists nonsense.”
It would have to be because I have never said or written anything anywhere that could be interpreted as any kind of support for white supremacist. It I had you would have cited it but you could not find anything to cite.
“How does it feel to be subjected to that?”
It feels a little like listening to lost sheep bleating in the distance, but thanks for asking.
“Why don’t you refrain from commenting on any sort of altercation unless you have all of the facts.”
I do: I only comment on any subject after I have examined all the facts. I suggest you do the same in future.
“But, I don’t think that you think your posts are propaganda at all. No…you are a real person who actually believes this stuff you spout to be true.”
Tell me something I don’t already know.
“You really do think that “Islam” which is different from “Muslim” is a culture that has nothing of value to offer for the past 800 years.”
Islam is a religious / political philosophy. A Muslim is someone who subscribes to that philosophy. The words do not mean the same thing. Sorry if that simple fact is too complicated for you to understand but that is not my fault.
I also never said that Islamic culture has produced nothing of value for 800 years. I said that in comparison with other cultures, it has produced very little of value over the last 800 years. If you want to make an argument against my assertion, try to argue against what I said, rather than something I didn’t say.
But of course you keep promising to provide examples of all the wonderful inventions, discoveries and innovations that originated out of the Islamic word over the last eight centuries. But you keep failing to deliver. You make these claims for the history of Islamic culture, in between admissions that you don’t know much about history, while claiming that my historical analysis is wrong, for reasons you refuse to outline; because you don’t have any historical knowledge but you are still absolutely convinced you are right about history — because political correctness!
Silly me — Asking a social justice warrior to actually behave with honesty or integrity or even basic logic of any kind is just far too much to expect.
If ideology is your aim then lying and deceit can be your only weapons.
“If this viral video is the one which I believe it is, I think it was later revealed that this girl’s mother had died the day before and that was, at least in part, the reason for the girl’s outrageous behaviour.”
If you wanted to know what happened, then you would have checked your facts instead of just believing what is convenient for you to believe. I thought you called yourself an educator? Now you are making yet more conclusions about something you admit you have not seen and don’t know the details of?
As for the girl’s mother dying the day before. I did actually check out the story before I posted on it. I am an educator you see so I like to check facts. Try it sometime; it works.
I found no mention or suggestion that the girl’s mother had died; and I seriously doubt a kid would have been in school at all if her mother had died the day before.
I think you left a string of words out of that sentence, or does “Oh please” mean something where you come from?
“Now, I don’t know much history”
Yes we have already established that fact. See above. You sure do like talking about it though don’t you?
“but my African-American history, in that? I am extremely well-versed.”
History does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot understand anything by cherry picking only one small section of it. The early history of America is deeply intertwined with that of Europe and Africa too. If you ignore the full picture then you end up with a skewed one.
“And yes I am well aware that Africans assisted in the Atlantic slave trade.”
Assisted? Well the African Kingdoms were pretty much the foundation of it and the drivers of it. I would say “assisted” is a bit of an understatement.
I presume you will begin campaigning for the people of Mali to pay you compensation now? Because you’re entitled to it apparently!
Will you also pay compensation therefore to those Frenchmen who stamped out slavery in West Africa? Just curious.
“I don’t know why white people love to bring that up, but they do”
Well people don’t “love to bring that up;” many people just get tired of brainwashed self-righteous racists like you constantly claiming that slavery was simply a white issue and that only white people were responsible for it. So people who actually know the history like to set the facts straight by pointing out; as I have pointed out to you ad nauseam; that inhumanity does not have a skin colour.
“I am also well aware that those same Africans had no idea that these people were packed onto a ship like cargo to rot and die in their own filth, for the duration of the trip, to arrive in a new land where they were subjected to an inhumanity that the Africans could not even begin to conceive of.”
They were well aware of it. They participated in it. They sold slaves all over the Middle East and India too and they had been doing it for centuries before any white men even landed in America. They also kept slaves themselves and they kept them in the most horrific conditions, beating them mercilessly for the slightest infraction; often castrating the male ones and using the female ones for breeding. Many African Kingdoms also had festivals of human sacrifice and blood sports.
Your attempt to cast African slavery as somehow benign is a testament to your ingrained racism, and your determination not to accept any facts that do not fit your “Black man good / White man bad” narrative.
And yet you make all these claims off the top of your head while admitting that you know little about the history.
“And when they in fact learned about it, they were outraged and many refused to continue to participate.”
Some Africans resisted slavery. They were mostly the ones from the weaker kingdoms or the lower castes who were likely to be taken as slaves. Many of them sided with European colonists in the late 1800s when those colonists began to conquer West Africa and abolish slavery.
And the irony is that here you are; a black woman who believes she is one of the “enlightened ones” desperately trying to make weasel excuses for slavery. Slavery wasn’t really so bad, she now implies; but only when black people did it.
“There are greedy, evil, sociopaths everywhere- and their antics are often the cause of much suffering in the world.”
Well congratulations Amber! The penny finally drops. You finally get it. Inhumanity is a human thing. It is not a colour thing.
That was pretty much my point all along.
“The Southern whites want the slaves back”
Considering the fact that most whites; southern or otherwise; never owned slaves at any point; I think that is a bit of a stretch to say the least. The population of the USA was only 30 million in 1865: less than 2% of them had ever owned slaves. The vast majority of white Americans, southern or not, are descended from people who emigrated from Europe after slavery had already long been abolished. They came from countries with no culture of slavery; cultures that had official positions of anti-slavery.
In Africa however: Slavery was still deeply ingrained in the culture across the continent and would remain so until the European colonisation near the end of the century.
“And they do get them back via the prison industrial complex — clearly supported by the 13th amendment, which simultaneously frees all slaves, but provides a loophole to snatch them back — crime. Commit a crime, and you are a slave again. Isn’t that quite convenient?”
Equating crime and punishment with chattel slavery is more dishonesty. All countries need to have systems of punishment for those who commit crimes. If I murder someone should I not go to jail? You compare that with ripping an innocent person from their home and enslaving them for life?
Once again you insult your own ancestors.
“Provides quite an incentive to criminalize being black doesn’t it?”
Actually no; that logic doesn’t follow. It follows more logically that the prison industrial complex, which I agree is an abomination, would have an incentive to criminalise people for as many reasons as possible. I don’t see any logical reason why a black man would be any more profitable to a private prison company, than a white man.
The reason that black man (most of the prison population are male) are imprisoned in numbers enormously disproportionate to white men is because black men commit an enormously disproportionate amount of crime compared to white men. According to US crime statistics; black men make up almost 50% of the US prison population. That is an astonishing statistic coming from a minority of only 13%; but it makes sense because it tallies exactly with the crime figures. Black men commit almost 50% of all violent crime in the USA.
Asians are incarcerated proportionately in much lower numbers than either blacks or whites. Why are white people more likely to end up in prison than Asians? Simple: Because whites commit far more crime than Asians but fat less than blacks.
Now by your logic; that would mean that the US system is racist in favour of Asians and against whites and blacks. But that is not a logical conclusion at all.
So the real question is; the question that you would be asking if you actually wanted to help black communities rather than just spew racist nonsense at white people, is this — Why are black people dropping out of school and falling into crime at much higher rates than white people?
And now we are back to a black girl in a school behaving in a completely unacceptable way; and people like you making excuses for her simply because she is black. I don’t know why some kids behave like that and some don’t; but most of the evidence points to fatherless homes; also disproportionately much higher in black communities.
If I were a black activist wanting to break this cycle then I would start by looking at the epidemic of broken families and see about finding remedies to that.
Here is another fun fact Amber: Growing up in a single mother welfare family; is the single biggest indicator that a child is destined to spend time in prison. A child of a single mother is statistically nine times more likely to end up in prison than a child who grows up in a two parent family.
So what is the solutions being pushed by your friends in BLM? Well here it is — direct from their own website-
“We are committed to disrupting the western prescribed nuclear family structure.”
Well done BLM: That really going to help ratchet up those prison figures and give the leaders of the movement more reasons to incite race riots; but it certainly will not help young black kids who in my opinion deserve as good a shot at life as those white or Asian kids.
“And when you say Western Europeans have nothing to be ashamed of with regard to slavery”
What I said was clear; that western Europeans have no more reason to feel guilty about slavery than anyone else. Everybody else was doing it too. That was my point and one that you just finally conceded.
“You say, as all people who seek to dismiss such an atrocities, slavery is just typical human behavior. That gets excuses”
Don’t be silly. Nobody is making excuses for slavery. Slavery must be counted as one of the most abhorrent evils that can be imposed on any people.
“But the little girl acting out in class is reprehensible.”
Yes: Slavery was an abhorrent evil. A girl behaving badly in a class room is reprehensible. There is a huge difference of course. I suspect you are desperately trying to find some correlation in those two statements but you’re out of luck because there isn’t any.
Let me illustrate further because I know you are easily confused. Sexually assaulting a child is an abhorrently evil crime. Stealing something from a store is not so serious, but it is still reprehensible. If we impose some small penalty on the guy who steals the item from the store; does that mean that we compare his misdemeanour with child rape?
I think maybe you need to take another little rest Amber if that is where you’re going with this.
What are you trying to suggest?
“Entitled. Do I think I am entitled to anything? No more so than anyone else.”
Really: You wrote that you were owed forty acres and a mule from white people. You also mentioned several times that white people owed a debt to you. You have a short memory Amber.
On the other hand I don’t know anyone who thinks someone else owes them anything because of things that happened before they were born. Nobody in Russia believes that anyone in Germany for example owes us anything. Nobody in Ireland believes that the people of Britain owe them things.
Most people do not have that bizarre sense of entitlement.
But you clearly do. That is OK because it will only make you bitter; but you should not be passing on that bitterness to young black kinds; that is setting them up to fail and they deserve better than that.
“If Western Europeans were “entitled” to their slaves, as you seem to suggest,”
You’re telling lies again Amber. Maybe it is your sense of entitlement running amok again. I never said anyone was entitled to anything, certainly not to have slaves.
But just another little historical fact: Western Europeans didn’t tend to have slaves. The rich ones had paid servants; but slavery was just not a thing in Europe. It sort od disappeared with the Roman Empire. It is a pity I suppose that Europeans did not colonise Africa much earlier. Then there would have been no slave industry in Africa either.
“Then many years and many generations later, when a young African-Americans subjected to generations upon generations of abuse from said slavery, flip out in a classroom, yeah.”
Ehmm — Amber: That girl was never a slave. You are not entitled to “flip out” in a classroom because bad stuff happened to people you never knew over a century ago.
Where oh where do you get this drivel?
Am I entitled to “flip out” because of Barbarossa? Is a Jewish kid entitled to “flip out” because of the holocaust? Are all kids allowed to just “flip out” because terrible crimes were inflicted on their distant ancestors?
“I guess she too is entitled to do so and I am inclined and entitled to withhold judgment about it and/or defend her”
No she is not entitled to do so. You are also not entitled to defend her behaviour. You would be doing her a great disservice by doing so. You are enabling and facilitating the kind of negative destructive behaviour that gets black kids like her, ousted from schools and looking at a lifetime of under achievement poverty and unhappiness.
Shame on you for encouraging black kids to engage in behaviour that will damage their futures; just because you are inexplicable bitter about historical horrors does not mean that you have the right to condemn other kids to the same bitterness.
“You can’t say enslaving entire groups of people, brutally for centuries is just the way it is”
I don’t. Slavery is not “just the way it is.” Slavery was an evil system which is thankfully now eradicated in most parts of the world.
Once again you speak to the voices in your own head.
“But acting out in a classroom or a Russian cathedral, and especially if you happen to be female, is totally unacceptable human behaviour.”
Screaming abuse at people in a classroom; disrupting the education of your classmates not to mention trespassing and vandalising historical monuments — is not “acting out.” One is unacceptable behaviour that will probably see that girl expelled from school if she doesn’t learn to behave. The other is a criminal offence and rightly so.
Oh and none of that has anything to do with sex or race.
I know your brainwashing has rendered you completely unable to understand this Amber; but everything I have written referees to a person’s behaviour; not their sex or race.
Your sex or race is not measurements of your character: Only your behaviour is; and your behaviour is entirely up to you. Blaming your behaviour on someone else or on your skin colour, or on some atrocity that happened before you were born, is just a cop out; and nobody is buying it.