Fiks is a nifty publication about art and fashion created by Landon Larsen.
What would you say was your first creative memory?
Geez. Umm, I don’t even…my first one. The other day at lunch, someone was like, “Three words that describe you. Go!” When I told them three, they were like “you didn’t say, ‘creative,’” and I was like, “Well that’s such a part of me that I take it for granted I guess.”
Yeah, it is a default. So sorry, bad answer.
Did you always know you wanted to do something creative?
Was there ever like a time that you thought about pursuing something else?
No, not really. I just wasn’t sure what facet I would touch. I worked in the oil fields of Alaska one summer, right after high school. And I saw all these dudes who made really good money, you know, at a job. They didn’t seem super interested in something that had a higher purpose. It was about good money and those weeks when they weren’t working. For me this was eye-opening straight out of high school; I did that for a month and made like nine thousand dollars, which was tremendous money back in the late 90s. And I felt that obviously a person can make money but that doesn’t mean that they’ll be happy or fulfilled… so I chose art at that point. Which, if you don’t come from a background or a family culture where people are professional artists, designers, or anything creative the decision to pursue a career in the arts is a big leap. So I didn’t really have too many examples. I do recall that as a teenager my supportive mom arranged for me to meet and talk with a professional artist. And this person was in the twilight of a difficult career and it was all doom and gloom your life will be hard kind of advice. Which makes sense if you’ve had a rough time, that you’re gonna want to make sure that people don’t commit to the difficult realities of surviving as an artist. I remember that exchange really bummed me out.
Because obviously we get caught up in a certain measure of fulfillment that doesn’t quite…mesh with job satisfaction or whatever, you know, if you pursue it. Of course I’m over simplifying other people’s pursuits, but how many dentists are passionate about teeth? There is a different set of criteria that’s produced that career decision. I don’t know how many lawyers are actually passionate about law. I think they’re passionate about money…and about power and finding a profession where they can be rewarded for being assholes. Of course I’m over simplifying, because I do have friends who are lawyers and dentists who don’t fit that kind of generalization at all…but…but…
Do you feel like that exists within the creative field? That people don’t even necessarily like to do it but do it for some other reason?
Yeah, for sure. To that same point with the other people, I think it’s the impetus for a certain decision. You know, obviously I think people end up finding enjoyment in a craft regardless of what they choose, but what I think people are talking about when they get asked, “What are you going to be when you grow up?” and they say, “I’m doing pre med, probably going to do dentistry.” That’s typically communicating, “I want to be a good provider with a nice house, nice car, financial security.” So it starts there and then grows into enjoyment and professional satisfaction from being good at what you do.
You know, being around a lot of business creation lately, I see business-minded types as being as creative as artists. It’s just different tools and media. Same thing within the arts too, there is money to be made if you can do it well. Jobs are work though. The trick is to find the tedium that’s the most palatable and enjoyable and doesn’t feel like tedium. For example, I’ve done animation and I can do it but I don’t enjoy it. Not to the same degree as other things. It’s not energizing for me, or it is in small doses but day in and day out I noticed that I wasn’t trying to excel, I was just kind of recycling the same tricks and leaning heavily on design as opposed to bettering myself in the craft of animation.
How would you define yourself if you had to put yourself in a specific category?
Is that because you’re touching so many different mediums?
No, I mean, I would just say scattered, right. Distributed across a network of interests that sometimes align. It’s a blessing and a curse. If the system is large enough it can accommodate you and enable you to shine. So, being super specialized can be very lucrative. At the same time, I know there is a strong need for savvy generalists … so its kind of like you have to be both a lot of the time, especially if you’re the generative point for a lot of the decisions and responsibilities of a small team. You do have to wear a bunch of hats and various pieces get less attention, obviously. Not everything can be a blockbuster — only things with the appropriate budget. That isn’t a bad thing though, different forms can be found that maximize and mine the constraints. For example, there are a lot of really interesting Indie game developers and designers that can make minimalist things that are quite impactful. They’re not trying to make Gears of War or something tremendous—they’re quieter, but more personal and poetic a lot of the time. There is room for auteur filmmaking right alongside big-budget ensemble James-Cameron types, where tech is on as much display as narrative.
Back to your question though, I feel like I’m just generally trying to find my way. And I’m finally starting to hone in on something I’m interested in, which is user experience design. It’s been a long way round. I feel like I wasn’t in the right context to understand that was a path that was available to me when I was making those decisions… so I had to find it through a lot of trial and error.
Is UX what you enjoy most then? Or would you say there’s something else?
Well I haven’t been in it long enough to truly know, but it energizes me like other things haven’t. I actually want to be good at it and be immersed in the culture of being good at it. And that doesn’t mean just following all the speakers but actually just wanting to really understand it and do it well. I like a job that requires empathetic understanding of a user as a set of decisions in contexts that are always changing. Plus, you get to try to optimize the system for your use and there’s a high analytical component to it. It’s really appealing to me. So for me UX is a good opportunity to synthesize a number of disciplines: psychology, research and analysis, and aesthetics all get translated into some kind of functional thing. I sort of feel like I’m somebody who studied graphic design and then realized that architecture or product design would’ve been more fulfilling. UX is an opportunity to do both, which is nice because oftentimes graphic designers end up being stylists parroting the latest visual trends.
Shifting gears a little bit. Do you have any guilty pleasures: weird music or movies?
Every new Bachelor or Bachelorette season sucks me in for a few episodes but I always drop off because I’m like, “I can’t handle this anymore. What an awful construct for humans to connect.”
What’s, like, your favorite thing to eat?
Do you feel like what you do is important?
You mean to the world at large?
However you perceive the question.
I’m around a lot of high conversations related to art and artistic practice. I think that a lot of times high culture gets pretty inflated about its importance in the world in general. Fundamentally, I think what everyone does is important, especially if it’s important to them. High and low dichotomies are false in my opinion. I’m very much in line with celebrating an amateur appreciation for any type of endeavor. Recently I was on a job working for a client and talking to someone in Hollywood who is a well-known music producer. This producer was very much of the high-art mindset where everything else is crap except for those few pearls that come along once in a lifetime that they’re constantly searching for… And that’s the narrative they continually tell themselves.
I believe the opposite — if it’s something significant to an individual, then it’s significant…if that makes sense. Things should be both approachable and if it’s important to someone, then it’s important. Everyone should find meaning how they can…same for me. Doesn’t mean I have to listen to it or value it, but my opinion of it is has no bearing on its intrinsic value.
It used to be sexuality, now I’m not sure. [thinks briefly] Harm coming to loved ones.
Do you feel like the creative world has become saturated? Like everyone wants to be an artist, a designer, do you feel like its getting more and more saturated or do you feel like it’s coasting like it always has?
I don’t know. Back to the amateur comment, the tools are democratizing access. We’re just leveraging tools that enable us to do things. We have so many great consumer tools that let us do whatever. So does that mean the level of craft is significantly degraded when anybody can auto tune their voice and make a song? That’s the argument being made by people like this dude in LA, the producer, is that it’s a travesty. I totally disagree. It’s like, get over that. I think everybody should be doing whatever they can to be creative and that we should celebrate that. It’s a gift. So for me I don’t think it’s saturated. Every person should be free to create and call themselves whatever they want. I think that’s good and it doesn’t require my approval at all.
How do you personally keep yourself current and fresh and unique among so many others all fighting for that same exact thing?
I don’t know if I’m really that current. You stop looking at some point because that just paralyzes you if you have an aspiration to do something well. If you’re a kid initially approaching that world, everything is an act of discovery and you’re not usually hung up on false ideologies of originality. It’s the follow-on subscription to the cult of originality that sets a lot of people up for failure.
There’s a quote that I put on my Twitter by Yohji Yamamoto, the Japanese fashion designer. Anyway, I left it up there forever because I thought it was so good. Here it is,
“Start copying what you love, copying, copying, copying. And at the end of the copy you will find yourself.”
-Yohji Yamamoto
That’s what Kenneth Goldsmith tweeted and attributed to Yohji Yamamoto. If someone is so concerned about always being original, and I know that’s not exactly what you asked, I think their progression stops before originality can actually be reached.
[Pauses] Copy. Just copy it. Which for me, I’d love to be drawing more. I don’t draw as much, and I love Moebius’ drawings. He’s one of the guys that spawned Heavy Metal magazine. He was a comic artist, not just. His name was really Jean Giraud. Moebius is his other pseudonym that he did fantasy and sci-fi stuff with. He worked with Alejandro Jodorowsky on Dune in the 70s, which sadly never got made, but then ended up doing stuff on Alien and a bunch of other films. Anyway, he’s a luminary. He’s amazing. You should check out his drawings because they’re phenomenal and you can see that lately there’s been a real resurgence of interest in his work. People just really digging it because it’s good…it’s astonishingly good. Anyway, taking Yamomoto’s advice I was like, “I’m going to start copying Moebius’ stuff. I don’t need to worry about trying to be original drawing-wise at the moment.”
You’ll copy, people will see the reference if they know it. Eventually, you’ll just keep going through it and then you’ll be your own place. People so often quote a constellation of other references when appraising new work that they come across. Oh, this looks like so-and-so, so-and-so, and so-and-so. Or even worse, “That’s already been done.” Which is not helpful for anybody when it’s used as a club to beat down another human. If it’s a sharing moment of appreciation, that’s a different thing. People know the difference too.
Extras–
Well, I went for fine arts so it’s a little bit different than design. I went for personal development. I wanted a rigorous approach that was more theoretical and conceptional because my undergrad (BYU) was so focused on portfolio creation. I wanted more theory and elevated conversation so that’s why I went and I got that. It was great. Obviously, I’m always cautious when people say grad school because of the associated cost. That is the scary part and I don’t know if it’s worth it, honestly. There are other alternatives to grad school that require similar amount of sacrifice that’s not as structured because you have to create things yourself. You could move to a new city, you could show up long enough to events to build a friend network and to participate in conversations. You don’t need grad school to do that. Arguably, grad school can be tremendously helpful for you in that regard. It does help communicate the seriousness with which you are approaching things. And if you want to be a teacher at some point, a lot of them require a terminal degree like an MFA, so there’s some value in that. Is it worth $60,000+ dollars of debt? I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not.
Generally, BYU’s undergraduate design program turns out competent designers. But, I feel like those who are self-motivated are the ones who actually do something because it was a factory school for certain existing relationships and design paradigms. When I was there it had a limited scope. It’s unfortunate, but I understood why. It’s a good program though — and the students are the best part of it.
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