Author’s note: I find myself having these wonderful conversations about God & Christianity in the Comment Section of Facebook, and thought I should preserve them. I have changed the names of my atheist friends to preserve their anonymity but left all punctuation and grammar just as we hashed it out on Facebook. Also, there are some NSFW words dropped in…sorry, if that is a deal breaker.
This is Part 1 of 3 Parts that started with a question about what would Jesus think about Syrian refugees. I think you’ll find that we really jump into something much bigger very quickly. Enjoy.
ATHEIST FRIEND #1, “Steve”: What do you think Jesus would have to say about that? (About accepting Syrian refugees into America)
TIM: Good question. I’d think that He would probably be in favor of putting His life at risk to help another person.
TIM: In fact I’m certain He’d help the refugees. Thanks for reminding me of what a great God I worship.
ATHEIST FRIEND #1, “Steve”: America isn’t a Christian nation, never should be, hopefully never will be. That being said, many people who do not want to take any refugees in DO claim to be followers of Jesus, and I’m just pointing out turning a cold shoulder to refugees out of fear of the possibility of terrorism is one of the LEAST Christ-like things I have ever heard.
TIM: I don’t think we should turn a cold shoulder to them at all. Let’s settle them in countries close Syria so they can return when the opportunity presents itself.
But you are opening up a huge theological front in this discussion. Just because a Christian is hypocritical doesn’t make them any less a Christian. And being Christian isn’t about the Christian; it’s about Christ. Being a Christian isn’t about being like Christ, it’s about believing in Christ.
If you want to have this discussion about being a Christian, I’ll clear my appointments for the rest of the day. There is no better use of my time.
ATHEIST FRIEND #1, “Steve”: of all the people in the world hypocrites are among my least favorite. not just hypocritical christians but hypocrites in general. i think it is literally one of the worst things you can be. i cant stand it. i dont tolerate it. being a hypocritical christian might not make you less of a christian, but it doesnt make you a good one, either. and it makes you a bad person, too.
i have to say i disagree with you. being a christian should not just be about believing in christ. some absolutely terrible people are absolutely devout in their belief that jesus was the messiah. in order to be a good christian, you should follow jesus’ teachings and live a life based off of his example. i have low tolerance for any christian that DOESNT live a life using christ as their example to aspire to. what better tribute can you pay someone than to live a life they would be proud of? in fact, i would say every bad experience i have ever had, heard of, or read of with christians were with christians who believed but didnt care to live a christ like life. and i would say every bad thing that any christian has ever done could almost certainly be avoided completely if that person had been living a christ-like life.
now, im not saying you have to give all your possessions away to be a good christian. but certainly you should do no harm, love EVERYone regardless of who they are or where they come from, do unto others as you would have done to you, and do the right thing always without thought of reward or recognition.
the ONLY reason i have ANY christian friends is because of my mother, who is as devout as anyone you could ever hope to find, and the life she has lead, which is about as christ like as any ive ever heard of. if i didnt have her example to show me christians can be genuinely good, caring people that live in jesus’ image, i probably wouldnt care to know any at all.
TIM: I must say someone has taught you an interesting brand of Christianity. I’m certainly no expert, but please allow to correct a few things.
We’re all hypocrites, Steve. Every last one of us. To paraphrase C.S Lewis, we talk about fairness and then we don’t act fair; we talk about the right thing and then do it wrong. That is just the human condition. What makes Christians a special breed is we stick out like a sore thumb and some of us are arrogant enough to believe that we can be perfect.
There are no good Christians or bad Christians. You cannot earn your salvation. You either are a Christian or you are not, meaning you either believe or you don’t. Where I think it gets interesting is that some people believe they are believers but they probably aren’t in their heart. It’s the old question of works versus faith. But that is not for me to concern myself with.
Jesus was a teacher, but if as a Christian, that is all you believe Him to be then you have missed the boat on Christianity. Christ is an example, of course, but to be only an example is to diminish His deity. Jesus is a redemptive power source. He is an agent of change in those who connect with Him. And yet when I type these words, I realize that in trying to describe His awesomeness, I fall so short. “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6.
Should a Christian aspire and strive to be Christ-like? Of course! But to use your descriptions, the bad Christian is saved just as much as the good one.
All those noble attributes you list; to do no harm, to love, to do unto others, etc., those are Christian virtues but they do not make you Christian. Faith in Christ alone; that is what defines a Christian. We sometimes fall prey to the idea that if we act Christ-like then we will be more Christian. But that is putting the cart before the horse; we have it backwards. When we connect with Christ, we then are empowered to be the people He intended us to be.
I’m certain your mom is a wonderful person, but her salvation is not dependent on her wonder. As I just mentioned, I suspect that her faith is what powers that wonderfulness and not the other way around.
And finally, Steve, I’ll touch on something you didn’t mention but what I find to be a big misconception. The focus of Christianity is not the Christian, it is the Christ. If we reminded ourselves of that a little more we would probably be more connected with Him.
To close, let me be clear: I don’t hold myself out as an expert on Christianity; I am just a poor wretch who glimpses what a connected life is and then tries his hardest to shovel himself atop that life to bury it. I can picture Jesus standing next to me scratching His head & wondering what I am up to. But I believe, I know, I am certain that He loves me for who I am not for who I could be. All He asks is that I accept His embrace.
Thanks Steve, for bearing with me. Too bad we didn’t have Bill (ATHEIST FRIEND #2) for this discussion.
Part 2 to follow soon!
