See, what you are doing here is interesting.
Eve Moran

If it was a joke, fair enough. Perhaps my criticism isn’t valid.

As to the OP, I don’t know whether she was lying or not, merely pointing out that anyone can say anything they want online, and that those who write advocacy pieces are aided by the presence of stories that support their narrative. If those stories can’t be drawn directly from the author’s own life experience, i have no way of knowing if it was fabricated whole-cloth.

If the story is true, she seems to be overreacting to the situation at least insofar as it’s been described to us. She’s also as guilty of stereotyping men as she accuses the men of stereotyping women. She complained about the notion that women are emotional, yet cast male workplaces as somewhere you have to talk like a sailor and tell embarrassing jokes to be in. Also, can we picture for a moment a man saying that one of his pastimes was trying to come up with jokes dirty enough to embarrass a female coworker? Oh, hello HR.

This notion of being spoken over is one i hear feminists mention frequently, and that may very well be grounded in their actual experiences. Yet, this is an example of what i was saying in that other post, where issues experienced by both genders are purported to be the sole purview of a single gender, and thus used to support the notion of gendered oppression. The fact of the matter is, men get spoken over all the time as well. It’s not about gender, it’s about presence.

Speak to anyone from the military, or even police/fire or EMS (my background), and they’ll tell you about the notion of the command presence. It’s the ability of a person’s presence, through tone of voice, body language, and actions, to demand respect and command authority. It’s generally a learned skill, not everyone has it. If you look around you’ll see most of the highly-successful business-people have it, male or female, because it was that talent that allowed them to thrive in the business environment, as competitive as it is.

If you lack this assertiveness, the ability to put yourself and your ideas out there and command attention, you will be talked over, ignored, and marginalized. It’s more an issue of timidity than it is gender.

There may be some merit to the notion that girls are taught growing up not to interrupt people, to be polite in conversation (though to be fair boys are taught the same thing). However, even if that’s the case, the place to address it is in the rearing of children, not complaining about the competitiveness, the meanness of the world in not catering to one’s weaknesses.

I keep saying this, modern feminism is infantilizing, it’s patronizing to women. Look at the way the OP praises Marty for bringing attention to her ideas and speaking for the other women. The notion there is that these women are not capable of standing up for themselves, that they need a man to support them, an idea antithetical to feminism’s very core. If you’ve ever been around strong, independent women, you’d know how silly this all sounds.

I hate that this is the ideal of women that is being portrayed to girls and boys growing up and maturing, because they might end up actually believing it. The strong women I’ve known, and I’ve known some incredibly strong women of whom i remain in awe, whose strength of character puts me to shame, would respond to feminist claims that women need help in order to succeed because the world is oppressing them by saying “no thanks, i can do it on my own.”

And you seem to believe the real experiences of women do not matter, because anyone can make up anything.

As for this part, let’s just say i’m skeptical of some of the claims i read because they sometimes don’t pass the smell test. However, to the extent that i take them at face value, the problem i have is with the the degree to which the author attempts to extrapolate their anecdotal experiences into universal society-wide schemes.

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