Open Letter to Games Workshop and white Dwarf Publishing. As a gay man I’d like to talk to you about how I feel unsafe about recent changes. It’s not what you think.
more anti fans pettines
someone has hatred for someone named Sargon of Akkad and so put in a villain with a very similar sounding name. this immortalizes them in the 40K universe as something and it doesn’t make it a lot of sense. Sargon of a cod is not someone who’s calling for violence or trying to harass people. they just like the Lord to be intact. Sargon of Akkad is not some evil anti-trans bigot he’s not in the slightest. in fact he’s very Pro trans and he’s got a lot of flack for that from some individuals. and what I don’t get is why they’re still seeing this individual as a villain when their takes are tepid at best. is some political turn Throwing in a very Petty way. I’m sure this author can do whatever they wish and please let them do it but it just comes across as something really really Petty and anti-fan. it’s like GW doesn’t care. and that’s half the problem
Disclaimer: I’m not a saint. But god dang.
The pro censorship people want you dead. and they will think it’s funny.
Revised (poorly) April 24th 2024
They may be crazy but they have legitimate grievances. Update added at the end. Sadly their messaging is lost on their hyperbole and claims that “normal people” turn their noses at. But we have to take a look. It’s too easy to shun instead of think.
The short answer is this.
Firstly:
“Companies want you to be emotionally invested enough in their IP to spend big money on it, but complain you’re too emotionally invested when they take to it with a hatchet. They say you shouldn’t care so much about the lore, then can’t figure out why you don’t care enough to spend money on it anymore.”
Second:
The lies. The damn lies.
Thirdly: a special kind of awful
First somone says they aren’t going to invalidate. Someone posts something about verisimilitude and consistency in settings. and then an author equates that to suicideality over “females” and says “I’m sorry you feel that way”
It is something anyone that has suffered abuse from their partner or parents has heard before.
As someone who has had to DEAL with suicide personally, This is a special kind of gross and dishonest.
I don’t feel OK around such people. This is why i consider it dangerous and no fun to be around at the very least. It’s funny how the edge lords and “toxic” people aren’t nearly this bad. Because, “the chuds”, they know what a joke is.
I talked with Marius and it seems like Nick Davis gave an apology. THANK GOODNESS… But I cant trust so easily.
I’m not exactly going to think it’s enough. If i had my druthers, Nick Davis should show public accountability for a public wrong. With Marius Gage’s very reasonable take I hope it is then elevated. Maybe it’s too much to ask for in Nick Davis changing their mind and hopefully lending support, because it is. But one can dream.
There’s still more people like Bricky the YouTuber. I don’t think I have the tolerance for someone so dismissive, diminishing of very real problems.
It’s not that he said female custodies are fine, that’s his opinion, but the fact that he said it without any consideration of the other side and is a way to insult and degrade is the zero IQ the negative empathy take. Apathy may have been cool in the 90s but not now. It seems that they don’t understand and are unwilling to understand.
It’s really a lazy, zero IQ take. It’s not even considering the other side there’s a difference between thinking the female custodians are fine. they very well might be fine but it’s a lack of Engagement and empathy with any other side that says that suspension of disbelief is just being ruined. Someone, somewhere is saying that everyone is bad because they don’t want a change when that is inline with facts. Someone somewhere is implementing a change for reasons that are shallow and with a fake ass moral High Ground and will not help anyone.
it is an intentional cause of just creating Strife for the sake of creating strife and media Buzz. Gizmodo should bury their heads in shame for writing that new article of “not doing away with ‘toxic’ fans” as they take the side of the worst of it.
DHS # EMW-2022-GR-00036
https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/contact-us
http://www.whitedwarfbooks.com/
Spending my life unwelcome from spaces has me have empathy to people like this. I hope Johnny Donovan doesn’t leave. That’s exactly what the bigots want.
it’s too easy to say that this isn’t a big deal. and it might not be for some people. but I hope you take a look at the following and possibly come away better informed and if it’s not a big deal then why did the change happen at all?all the more reason not to make it. but I guess Amazon’s new show may do something and I’m not sure what. Maybe people are overreacting, but it’s way too easy to say that than to analyze what the heck is going on and though the titles may be alarmist that “wokeHammer” this or “GirlHammer” that. Yet, there’s something behind the scenes. Something that should not be ignored. Something incredibly valid and extent especially the lying on part of the company. there’s more nuance and this is the latest in a bunch of very questionable changes. which are alienating women and trans women as we can see here. There’s a reason or twenty why I don’t feel safe as a gay man in any of this. I hope it may illuminate what the heck is going on; That there are people who pretend to be on the side of progress but are ultimately abusive and are getting their way possibly because they are abusive.
It’s too easy to say that these are 35-year-old white CIS men playing with toys. but that isn’t entirely the case and it’s way too easy to ridicule instead of understand. Please choose the understanding route.
Before I begin, I want to elevate a reasonable voice.
you can find it here
https://x.com/Grimasaur/status/1780182469506994663
posted here for readability
The lore and other questions about female custodes or astartes aren’t that relevant. People should instead look at the aesthetic.
The Imperium of Man is not meant to be an egalitarian or fair society of equality and fairness. It’s feudal. It’s dark. The question it asks is, ‘What is justified in the face of annihilation?’. It’s a theocratic thanatocracy and a society engaged in total war.
So, does this modernist egalitarianism have a place in the Imperium? No. It breaks the aesthetic thrust of the setting and faction; it doesn’t support and emphasise the unfairness and cruelty or the religious overtones of the setting.
These militaristic orders are meant to echo the Knights Martial (Teutonic Knights, Hospitalers, Order of St James, Templars), etc. They are monastic, ascetic orders, ‘battle brothers’.
Furthermore, there are factions, heroes, etc, that do break gender expectations, but as individuals, just as in the real world, history is being echoed.
The Sisters of Battle are an all-female faction, for one, and one that delightfully tweaks the nose of legalistic theological interpretation in the real world. It adds; it doesn’t take away. A similar result could have been achieved by placing greater prominence on the Sisters of Silence rather than headbutting this particular hornet’s nest. After all, for every monk, there’s a nun.
People shrieking ‘sexist!’, etc., are also missing the mark. It’s easier to shriek and point rather than to understand (so much for empathy as a value). Ultimately, this is just going to harm yet another company, pandering to people who (mostly) aren’t their main customer base. Sooner or later, you’d think someone would figure that out.
-Grimmnir Mäyräparta
This same person also properly critiuqes his own side.
Are some of the people who want accuracy to lore sounding a bit nutty? sure But with systemic anti gamer rhetoric that has only ramped up over the past 10 years… well let’s take a look:
Maybe i’m not much better, i’m the one talking Gramcsi in all of this but you have to admit it is something that should be considered. If a sales or marketing strategist is not going to cut through the BS to get to the facts and understand… then it’s going to harm the company.
Or, if the “chuds” are really that “radical”. Maybe check it out as to why? because the actions of the company are antagonistic and malicious at this point. And with that, they’re going to make people angry. That are rightly angry. but other people looking on will not give such people the time of day. Because they’re talking about the other systemic hurts other companies have inflicted on them.
moving on.
some of the responses are mild.
Other responses (seen below) prove why everone is so upset. That the kind of people who say “warhammer is for everyone” really don't mean what they say.
And that’s the kicker. It’s a thought killing affair. The “chuds” are given such a bad reputation they don’t deserve and not exactly helped by their, (our) messaging. but it is happening.
one of the most compelling is the response in the following image.
the Gramscian “long march through institutions”.
If you don't know what that is, you are not prepared for the 21st century and what has been going on in dangerous, reactionary radical circles. Many of which have historically been anti gay, still anti-liberal and responsible for untold horrors in the Holodomor and genocides. And what we see happening in every part of society if you’ve not lived under a rock.
“we’re not taking something we’re adding to it”. That is disingenious.
(this is a not subtle dig at Dungeons and Dragons too, but they’re messing up so much and doing far worse, shooting thesmsleves in the foot and losing money for it. Some how Games Workshop saw that and said let’s also shoot ourselves in the foot)
And it’s gaslighting.
That might be tinfoil but we have a bunch of people crying for invented and pretend barriers to destroy. to invent accusations of sexism against a board game in order to not offend or even target people.
To turn it all into one gray, unidentifiable sludge where any difference is destroyed. Never mind the sisters of battle existing for this very purpose. this is some how “fighting sexism” as the very white very male and very rich Games Workshop and White Dwarf are saying.
Toning things down to be part of some capitalist or socialist sludge where no one is offended but no one is inspired. in this case it’s weirdos that take Gramscian ethics and misapply intersectionality.
Or it’s some suit in a board meeting that is so out of touch that said “we need to do this change to alienate people we don’t like.”
To the point where art they don’t like is censored just like DeSantis would do. we see this many times where something or someone with an ax to grind says that something needs to change either because it’s degenerate or problematic.
Political or not DeSantis is the other side of this crap covered coin and either extreme in this is just terrible.
Maybe I’m wrong and Gramsci ethics don’t signify but somebody’s got an ax to grind at Games Workshop and it’s against people that don’t deserve the bad rap they get.
The “chuds” are only that way because they were PUSHED in to that direction over the past 10 years with a lying and deceptive media/ narrow politic.
With all the stuff said against them over and over again by publications and it’s not hard to see why some of the people in favor of preserving the lore are borrowing language from things that are seemingly irrelevant if not outright irrelevant. It makes sense.
It’s still censorial it’s still a crappy implemented change that only serves to fracture a community. I know some of the people that I’m going to bat for sound very hyperbolic and are hard to understand. even cringy to the point of saying that the West is falling or whatever. it won’t be because of the game I can tell you that much but there are some patterns I’m seeing. and I hope I’m a little bit more mild than my contemporaries but even then it is a question of consistency it’s a question of lore it’s a question of not liking censorship.
“Woke” or not, what has been happening to entertainment for decades is what happens below.
So in other words, the people cheering and making the changes to the lore are people that are not secret about their wish to turn everything in to a uniform gray, unidentifiable sludge in order to not only stop offense but turn everyone and everything as fungible. All because they think using intersectionality on a dang game is going to help.
It won’t help social justice causes.
It’s either a suit, or a suit listening to people who don’t know a thing about art. It’s “Change dogs to cats in World of Dogcraft or you’re a bad person that kills kittens”.
And then the people defending dogs say that this is dog erasure. they’re right but some people think that “dog erasrue” is some how a nazi dogwhistle.
That last part makes no sense in the hypothetical and it makes no sense here but such people who dare speak out are unjustly called the worst soceity has to offer… by comapnies, by bad journalist like the ones at Gizmodo. Gizmodo is spreading debunked conspiricy theories.
We’re once again where gamers have been blamed for a social ill. From Satanism, to Sexism, to violence. and now THIS.
And because of that. people are becoming more radical. They’re shunned out of their own houses. So no wonder we hear “anti-woke” this and that because to them it is happening and it is systemic. And in some way they have a point. Even if they’re wrong.
Sadly that has people misunderstand such people. And dismiss what validity they have. It’s too easy to “dunk” and mock instead of listen.
But I beg you all to stop and think.
And when you see their opposition. You’ll see just how bad things really are.
https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/contact-us
http://www.whitedwarfbooks.com/
Here’s their contact page. Be polite but firm. Don’t harass.
The guard and sisters of battle are already there.
So people demanding the changes. even with my limited knowledge. are just demanding for the sake of demanding. and able to call everyone else sexist for calling out the bull. It’s a kafka trap. it’s a double bind. you see this used by abusive partners and now it’s on a massive scale under the false pretext of “including women” when they’re already very well represented. So what is going on? Was it a slow news day and we had to drum up YET ANOTHER controversy to push plastic toys?
Turning the cast of Hamilton in to 100% POC isn’t helping fight racism. This won’t help fight sexism. no it’s going to exacerbate it. and give “the chuds” ammo.
And now we have former Games Workshop employees lie right to the face of consumers. Saying it doesnt’ matter.
Well if it doesn’t matter then why change it? it’s not going to help stop the abuse of women and gender hatred.
And now, my homosexual ass is being caught up in the mix because these same people think they’re for me. They’re not. Especially when they mistreat people who dare to question their holy crusade.
— —
“The imperium is fascist, we demand to be represented by it.”
I’ve written about the abusive people before here. I’m already called a bad-gay for having these ideas and I'm sick of the anti Semitic and fake-ass feminist appeals as a bunch of people are shamed.
Even if they are “chuds” the actions of the self proclaimed woke are inexcusable and need fixing just like any other bigotry!
EVEN MORE UPDATES.
These people really think they’re in a war. Not just the “chuds”.
HOW? I was in Charlie moistcr1tikal White’s chat and this is the insanity. How the heck is keepiung to lore in favor of right wing ben shapiro rhetoric? The alt-right HATES games. They’re seen as a waste of time. To think that there’s a secret cadre and cabal of racist sexists attratced to the game because there’s no women is INSANE.
Sure, maybe my example wasn’t the best. But this is the kind of people Games workshop and White dwarf want? The people who dox and harass and pretend to be “the good people”?
In short. let’s say there’s a bunch of horrible people who are opposed to this change that you also say is NOT a change. (I didn’t have to change my article and now three hours ago we get this)
Either the lore is consistent or it is not. saying it is consistent and saying there was a change is contradictory.
You’re fueling them. You’re fueling the anti DEI ESG theories.
Even so. we have hyper “woke” fans saying the Tyranids, the bug race who consumes all biomatter, is an allegory for Jews.
I think i had it linked another place in this letter.
I get criticism of Israel but this is too far. It’s not the chuds saying that.
Why aren’t THOSE people the ones that will not be missed?
Now i have someone gate keeping me being gay. and then misunderstanding the whole article. i didn’t think it was LGBT representation in FICTIONAL SPACE FASCISTS. i thought it was messing with the lore in saying women could be Custodes?
you really want this kind of thing to go on?
God the gall of some people. WAY TO PROVE ME RIGHT. I’m not fake. I may be crazy, but some how I'm also ‘not gay’ for criticizing the “woke” or whatever? oh lord. I wish this was new. This is a very common tactic.
I have gotten angry when i hear a non-binary person being male at birth HATING themselves to the point of wanting to end their own life because their “friends” of a certain ideological persuasion instilled in them a shame… because of being assigned male at birth.
GOOD LORD THE LACK OF EMPATHY.
And this is the audience you’re going to get with the changes? No wonder I feel unsafe amidst the abuse. The Chuds, even when they say really questionable stuff about LGBT individuals. When i ask. they really do recant. Some of them totally are assholes, yes but only because of a reaction. They weren’t bigots before.
They wouldn’t have become bigots if they weren’t incessantly called that.
Well, yes, because you are.
SO WAIT. We have over TEN YEARS from journalistic articles and other nasty rhetoric and false accusations. Meanwhile there’s the proof above.
It’s more minimalizing, it’s the abuser playbook at this point. It’s like CLOCKWORK.
Gizmodo should burry their heads calling the wrong people toxic. Especially how they still say that Sweet Baby Inc is somehow a victim. Yes, they name drop an unrelated controversy. Every week it’s something like this that gamers are bad or sexism is rampant. in gaming or something lacks diversity. Or some other panic.
James Whitbrook has an email and I tried to contact them. I’m not holding my breath for a response with something so deceitful and repeated acts journalistic malpractice. over the past god knows how long.
It’s a hit piece that only makes the “chuds” VINDICATED.
if the people who are opposed to female custodies and pro lore are SO BAD. (they’re not) THEN WHY FEED THEM?
And of course James Whitbrook mentions a controversy that is entirely unrelated. saying that gamers are against diversity because of Sweet Baby Inc. … here’s why that is wrong. Whitbrook spreads a conspiricy theory and possibly runs afoul of “misinformation laws” in the EU.
DHS # EMW-2022-GR-00036
Sweet Baby inc engaged in targeted harassment of someone in Brazil that only mentioned what games they worked on.
Now I do not condone harassment of any kind. No one does.
But you already did remove your comments, you came in here with your full name and face. and now your’e worried about “harassment”?
Ok i removed it.
But you participated as soon as you wanted to call everyone else crappy. Ya just ashamed that you proved the “anti woke” types right.
When the so called Good Guys send bomb threats then maybe they’re not so good.
It’s nerd hate that has been going on since longer than some of you have been alive!
And now, we have the actual Department of HOMELAND SECURITY calling us dangerous only because people unrelated to video games did horrible acts.
They’re taking people of a certain identity, believing the worst stereotypes and then having actual government intervention to watch their every move. With a government grant.
We have had “historical and organized patterns of mistreatment.” for decades in the media and the government based on the worst of lies.
“Oppression is the inhibition of a group through a vast network of everyday practices, attitudes, assumptions, behaviors, and institutional rules. Oppression is structural or systemic.”
__
When someone has an allergic reaction to something, you don’t blame the person having the reaction.
I feel unsafe about the idea of female Space Marines being in the thing because not only does it show a disrespect to the lore the kinds of people that want it and have pushed for it have been abusive to me and my friends. and I don’t know how to do this and I fear that people are weaponizing calls of sexism in order to manipulate you into doing something you normally wouldn’t do. it is called social engineering.
it’s also inaccurate to say women aren’t fairly represented in Warhammer 40K.
I hate to bring up the acronym SJW in the year 2024 but it’s what they called themselves and is a useful label.
and with no shortage of abuse of customers and in the industry.
The meme standard is this.
You don’t say this kind of thing even if they’re bigots because that only pushes them to be MORE RADICAL. You cannot say “oh only the fascist will worry about this statement”. No, i did. others that were against fascism did too because of how easily thrown around that word has been. from anything to doubting government policy then to saying rule books in a fictional game may need to be “updated”. For what good? Does it actually do that good?
Daryl Davis is proof that you can’t stop hate by sequestering and exclusion.
And I don’t know where to go in order to remedy this change (or at least the perception of it) or at least bring awareness to it. because it’s not just me that feels at risk we have people that have been abused and harassed and I will attach proof of it:
Some people want others harmed and gone.
Some people want us dead and gone. It’s everywhere on twitterNot only that. imagine the women that are insulted. There are many women already in Warhammer community and they already felt included even if there weren’t any female Space Marines. imagine how pandering put yourself in the shoes of a woman and imagine how pandering and patronizing this action is.
It just shows to me that abusive people win if they pretend to be on the side of justice. I am gay I’m disabled and the chuds have treated me far warmer than any of these “inclusive” types that are really just the worst offenders and even criminals when it comes to harassment, bigotry and even violence. Even harassing women and minorities.
some how the “good guys are the ones sending bomb threats? that’s how history remembers it.
So why is this happening? Why do you want to court people who do this?
I’m sorry but these people aren’t “crusty”. They’re just leaving because they don’t want to deal with the abuse. And nor do I.
I’ve written more on directly related issues:
Thing is it never seems to be positive returns on profit. So what does this mean?
“The world is shortsigted, so quick bucks is the way most mainstream lines go nowadays. It’s dumb and wastefull, yes, but humans are quite… well, dumb.”
Very true. the panics come back. now i’m not affiliated with this user but it’s worth a read and consideration.
The “chuds” may be called reactionary, but that’s only because there was an action that set them off. When someone has an allergic reaction to something, you don’t blame the person having the reaction.
And so a lot of people are mad and alienated. even if their messaging is bad or is falsely considered misogynistic there’s A REASON.
People are just against bowdlerizing lore. No one was stopping people from having female space marines in their games at their table. The entitlement to get the core rules changed and then accuse everyone else of misogyny is a KAKFA TRAP. And it stems from the worst, most braindead kind of illiterate “Media Literacy”.
Just like the religous right of the past, it’s as if some people will oppose and quash anything that doesn’t fit in a certain world view. I’m not so naieve as to think this is only done by one side. But a very bigtoed side that cannot tolerate lore is getting their way. IT’S A GAME. And gaslighting people with false claims of misogyny isn’t helping.
It assumes harm when there’s none to be had.
What harm. Where? How would one even falsify such a claim or even prove it? It’s like saying there’s a tiny teapot in between Earth and Mars and we have to believe it exists because we can’t disprove it.
We weren’t excluded then. never really were. It’s conspiracy theories that started with a cisfem con artist and have been made in to “truth” by repetition.
Either way to think gaming was an all boys club is wrong. And if it were, what’s the problem?
GW said that only the fascists won’t be missed. And then people on twitter are telling people that aren’t fascists that they won’t be missed. I have many theories where this stems from. but I talk to such people. they have a point midst it all. Why is an entitled few getting to change lore for some self-righteous idea that it will stop sexism?
They didn’t like being called fascists when they were once very socially liberal 8 years ago.
Now, they’ve been driven to the only places that validate them. But they’re called ‘alt right’ for their humor. Even mockingly embracing the title because of how much more crazier the opposite is. And some of them are seriously lost but one has to understand the conceit of why they go to it.
Because it seems to create more of it. we didn’t have these problems before. we didn’t have a reactionary subset before this. (either stripe even).
IN THE LEAKS. you can’t even keep your own lore right in the leaks.
“There Have Always Been Female Custodes” doesn’t seem to float. When the articles and your own sources say the following.
The main issue is that literally everything before this codex was like ‘’Son, son, sons, sons, brothers, brother, men, men’’ without the slightest possible hint of any ambiguity on the subject, and now there’s suddenly not just female custodians, but named ones.
But some how that FUN. is not ok? Retcon what you will but don’t ignore the facts.
Rogue Trader, page 133, in their first appearance refers to them specifically as male.
Because the lore in the same book says:
“It is known that all custodes begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Tera. It is a [sic] incredible prestige to surrender one’s own child to this most glorious of callings within the Imperium, and many notible clans within amongst the Terran Aristocracy have willingly given up almost entire generations of newborn sons to earn it”
I dont’ even know much but even other people on the outside are looking in and saying the following.
“Sigh…. I’m not familiar at ALL with 40k, but I am aware enough to know their are FEMALE forces in the armed forces of the Imperium of Man. BUT NO, that’s not good enough for “THE MESSAGE”, so they Infect, Subvert and ultimately Replace the “Popular” Stuff. Hmmm, Maybe Nurgle is behind all this Madness, BROTHER HAND ME MY HEAVY FLAMER! This is Pandering Bullshit and we all know it. They have NO reason to do it, other then chasing a “wider audience” which does not exist…”
But in good faith
“It’s not a retcon you old coot. The custodes have only been shown as men, but I actually went through all the lore for them and the only evidence for it is there’s a chapter header called ‘Fraternity of Heroes’. The new codex is still refried dogwater, but there was never any evidence supporting them being men-only.”
Interesting point. probably the case and if that’s so then i have egg on my face BUT.
The signaling and what people are taking this to be in fueling their anti-woke (valid or invalid criticisms) stuff is just going to not only lose customers but spread. It’s going to be toxic. It is already.
We have people demanding a change and accusing others of being “alt-right”, Conservatives, Ben Shapiros. (see above). So it’s no wonder people are being driven to that side because when you start to call people awful enough times and being intrinsically awful, they’ll not like what that accuser is selling.
The community is at it’s own throat. and people are thinking and believing you're trying to seek an audience that is not there or already in.
Far as I can see, and what my limited sources say, that this has been eight years of bad business decisions. Eight years of lost profits. Eight years of toning down and the like. It’s fueling these channels.
Either they have a point and you’re doing a rotten thing by alienating customers to get that investor money by sacrificing the lore integrity of a fictional world in favor of a very toxic set of self-righteous “anti-chud” fans that attack and harm people.
Or they’re partly wrong and that the critics of this “change” are exagerted and you’re losing people… because it looks like you’re pandering the toxic self-righteous “anti chud
OR THEY’RE ENTIRELY WRONG. and not only going to leave the community with no hope of making friends or understanding lgbt people like myself… but to MOBLEIZE AND GO TO ACTION. What ever that is, it can’t be pretty. It’s making things insufferable as it is.
And you STILL have the hyper “woke” fans that tried convincing us that the Tyranids, the bug race who consumes all biomatter, is an allegory for Jews. That’s not the Chuds saying that.
You can google that. I’m not putting that stuff on here. There’s already enough anti-Semitism at the Ivy League schools by a certain politic the “chuds” criticize.
never mind i’m going to include it.
The problem is people like things intact. The changes to many people feel like out right bowdlerizing of what they once sought comfort in.
For some reason, we treat books with more reverence than games because of an elitist attitude that games and gamers are dirty and inferior.
As a gay man in leftist circles. there’s a lot of trans-misandry going around simply because of some wackos on Tumblr and some critical theory college graduates that really like to rubbish men. It’s bad. A mutual of a friend of mine, the friend of mine goes by the name “Queen Jinx” has discussed this with their trans masc friends.
That’s going to be complicated to get in to. But the idea that Warhammer is for everyone doesn’t seem to ring true when you’re telling fans they won’t be missed.
Even if you don’t mean those fans they FEEL that way and only because of the push by some very vocal and very strange sort of individual that things changing fiction will change hearts and minds or will lead to some less bigoted and less exploitive future.
Or they just want to dunk on people for that and pretend they are good.
Female space marines aren’t going to bring in women or more people. It’s a fictional universe! I don’t know why the representation buzzword is going SO FAR as to need to change fiction because they’re too inept to tackle the real issues. It’s the tacit admission that “we can’t fix the real issues so we have to alter fiction to brainwash people in to acceptance”. God forbid if they call it out.
At least this person is trying to make changes at their own table. I may disagree with their efforts but they’re not imposing and gaslighting others.
What problematic elements are “not allowed”. I swear. This is like a hyper Christian or far right person trying to avoid anything that so much as isn’t allowed by the devil.
WAR IS PROBLEMATIC. LIFE is problematic. and there’s a reason people are so hostile to the changes. The people that are (seemingly or actually) being pandered to seem to have a very rigid ideology… the kinds of which we’ve seen before. A purity spiral. A sanitization spiral that rivals the red scare and out does any of the satanic panic.
And people are rightly seeing it as BAT GUANO CRAZY and dangerous to fiction and to real people. If we were to put the shoe on the other foot. then Drag shows would be banned because it’s “woman face”. And we’ve got some radicals both left and right making that argument.
It’s not fun. It’s taking a science fiction setting and breaking it simply because some sensitivity reader doesn’t like an element. It’s NOT REAL. Barbie doesn’t make little girls self-conscious. Playing a Space Marine in a game doesn’t make one a real life fascist. But we’ve gotten to that point where people are trying to fight imaginary sexism because they can’t fix the real life problems.
It’s weird. and I don't know why people want to visit and aquarium, jump in the shark tank and then want the sharks removed.
So what consequences is this retcon or change going to have? not very good ones. the other past 8 years of these alterations haven’t done a good thing because someone somewhere isn’t listening. just bending a knee.
So why bend that knee to such abusive people? they’re nuts.
Please reconsider. Because this person up here seems to prove my point.
UPDATE: the stocks kind of took a little bit of a nose dive after this announcement and the leak. but it’s probably going to level out this isn’t going to be total evidence but I don’t see the female players. there are minorities in women that are saying that this is clearly pandering. and they’re going to go elsewhere.
Goodness knows I don’t want to touch it after this change. Especially after this change. especially when you cover up the followers of Slaneesh. that’s sex negativity that is to be expected from a hyper conservative Ben Shapiro when he complained about a Cardi B song.
I know Warhammer is not innately right wing this is fine the fans are not either. but neither are the people that are calling this out as the anti-fantasy stuff that it is. I don’t know how women are helped during this and I’m don’t see women joining the hobby because of this change. but please try and prove me wrong. because someone is really got a weird idea of what Gen Z wants and it’s not going to help anything. Warhammer is for anybody who wishes to join. and now we have former Games Workshop employees speaking out and hammering home the “for everybody” line that isnt’ true in practice or even intent.
I’m not sure why the heck a toy company selling overpriced plastic models is doing. Because now those people that spend a few grand on these things are not going to be buying them anymore. imagine making people so angry that they create their own parallel products. I don’t think this is working out well for anybody especially not the people like me you’re trying to draw in.
What’s worse is that you said that there’s always been female Custodes. This has no support from the actual evidence of past editions.
It’s always almost a completely embraced entirely as male and they certainly have oiled up abs. I appreciate that a lot. What people really don’t appreciate is the obvious gaslighting.
Seeing the kinds of fans that that you want. The ones that say “gatekeeping is bad” try to gatekeep my Identity and then a furry yelling at me in the comments proving my point… I’m surprised people didn’t just leave the hobby 8 years ago.
Some of them did. Some of them became proud subversives.
These changes are just restriction on fiction. I don’t think it’s a good thing to validate the “chuds” that you claim are so horrible, especially with an incredible lack of communication. Are you doing this because of Britain’s hate speech laws or other stuff or is it because of demands from some investor? Are you trying to keep you afloat when the economy is in shambles?
The fact remains I’m asking where the good is in all of this. and a lot of other people should be asking the same.
I don’t think women and BIPOC are going to be drawn to grimdark simply because you think they’re so narcissistic they can’t identify with people who don’t look like them.
I don’t think vilifying the straight, white men or sexuality is going to help. (Remember, both extremes on this ‘culture war’ use the same insult of porn addict when ever they see media that doesn’t fit in their myopia)
It’s treating the guard and the Sisters of Battle and all the like just don’t exist.
It’s turning down fun because some soccer mom is complaining. It is like watering down hot sauce. You are making steak into hamburger because other people can’t chew steak. Which is weird if you call yourself a steak house.
There was and never is nothing stopping these individuals to have female Space Marines or whatever at their own table.
but we can’t talk to people who say “ if you don’t like female Space Marines then you’re a misogynist or sexist”. you can’t talk to someone that extreme and that ideologically zealous that they would Gaslight and assume the worst.
we don’t have people asking for more male viewers on The View we don’t have people asking for more white people in basketball. nor should they. but the idea that people can only relate to people who have the same genetically immutable traces them is absolutely Bonkers it assumes such individuals like myself to be narcissists. that’s not good. so please reconsider.
The insanity is here and it’s not wise to give the “culture warriors” of either side any ground. It’s a game. A game people love and verisimilitude and consistency with lore just weakens the experience... we already have the people in favor of the changes dropping the pretext that they think it’s also just a game. They want to dunk on people and assuming everyone is a neo-fascist. Which has been shown to be little more than projection.
Imagine if someone saw Rainbow Brite or My Little Pony and DEMANDED IT CHANGE to be more masculine or something. They’d rightly be laughed out of the room. The same should happen here against those who wish to violate lore.
Please reconsider this change because it’s only fueling the abusive moral masturbators that pretend they’re pro women… by demanding lore to change to include (I hate that buzzword) cis-women. All for some sort of identity politic.
Please reconsider because it’s giving content and money to people who you openly say should leave the hobby by misidentifying them, and by association me, as Nazi biogots.
I don’t deny there aren’t problems. These are people that are off the deep end and I truly believe they wouldn't have gone off that deep end if you all didn’t push them that far. This is a self perpetuating war and someone is making bank from it.
If you want to stop the “chuds” and the “alt-right” then stop feeding them things they can use for vindication.
So reconsider. Nothing was stopping people from having female Custodies or Female Space Marines at their table. It’s not the women they don’t like it’s the imposition. Why is someone demanding unicorns not be unicorns anymore?
It’s much braver to listen and engage. and there’s one side that has been more receptive and the other totally walled off and so sure of their moral superiority that is toxic to anything else.
I’m on the outside looking in and I do not feel safe. Quite the opposite. There’s one side that’s treated me far better and it’s the CHUDS. That’s less toxic than the new people you’re trying to bring in.
And now they brag. Pretending to wear the pride flag. HOW DARE they especially with the abuse they fling out to people like me and other gay people.
If that’s the audience you want then probably it’s only because you wanted the death threats from said “woke” audience to stop.
I just don’t feel safe. at all. Hell, lolcow is a Kiwifarm term.
That should show you the kind of dangerous person being brought in that pretends to wear the rainbow.
The short of it is this:
“the reason some people don’t like that space marines are all male is that they consider something immoral about men having their only spaces”
That is INSANE and the people who think like that have clearly shown themselves to be not caring about the game but only themselves and who they can hurt. Like me.
And the tacit admission is here. The mask is off. Blocking a woman who has a different opinion is pretty low.
But yeah. There’s a reason people don't like what’s going on. And they have every right to.
Games Workshop and White Dwarf should reconsider. they NEED to reconsider. Because this is what the normal people are posting.
People are seeing through the ruse and have been. Sadly, I hope not enough people are not so addicted.
to restate:
People shrieking ‘sexist!’, etc., are also missing the mark. It’s easier to shriek and point rather than to understand (so much for empathy as a value). Ultimately, this is just going to harm yet another company, pandering to people who (mostly) aren’t their main customer base. Sooner or later, you’d think someone would figure that out.
https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/contact-us
http://www.whitedwarfbooks.com/
Here’s their contact page. Be polite but firm. Don’t harass.
I removed the name and face of the insulting that came in here saying that there was no problem. Who indeed aligned themselves with anti Semites.
What happens when the “toxic” people that you block. like the Person who is trans in my comments leave but others don’t?
there’s another person and i dont’ know if they’re in the right or not. but it’s useful to the letter.
And another thing. One of the people that were blocked by the OFFICIAL WARHAMMER Twitter… is trans.
the comment is in the comment section, obviously but I'm reposting it here
“
I’m post op mtf trans. Got into 40k before RT was released. I’ve seen a lot of lame lore change over the years, and watched a madcap insane universe tidy itself up into a relatively bland, clearly delineated corporate toy selling product.
Hadn’t stopped me from buying minis and playing hte game, although the latest edition is pretty bad compared to previous ones, and I prefer to play 9th, where at least my forgeworld dimacherons are valid. Can only really play my Dark Angles in 10th, which include metal proto-terminators from the 80s. I have the makings of Space elf and Chaos armies, too.
I’m currently banned on twitter. Perhaps for complaining that I would parade my armies, but they’ve been made invalid, or perhaps for suggesting the ESG teat is too tasy, or liking the wrong tweet who knows.
At any rate, 40k is supposed to be horrible, & women and trans have always be represented (i own the original keeper of secrets, a 4 armed bull with tits).
Needing to be represented in a grimdark hellscape of endless war is a bit weird, though .
The real issue is not the lore change. We’ve seen so much of that. It is the gaslighting that accompanied it. We’ve suffered through some horrible institutional narcissistic abuse over the last few years, and when something beloved, flawed, but loved, engages in it, its very hurtful. When the usual suspects, the self-hating woke flying monkey mob, then descends and joins in the abuse, gloating at their perceived victory? Well. My most 40k obsessed friend declared himself over it, has started writing his own lore and vowed to not give GW another penny. I’m similar, in that I’ve decided to not give them any more. The leviathan box, which I’ve nearly finished painting, will be my last.
I think GW are hoping there will be a massive influx of new people when the Amazon series hits, and that that will make up for alienating so many with their crass actions. But the community they are nurturing isn’t an inclusive one, as you have said. it is a violent, hateful and repressive one, and that will escalate, as it always does, and drive the normies away.
It will be interesting to see how GW fares in the years to come, and how Cavill reacts to the lore changes for his favourite army
Now, anyone could have written this. it’s hard to prove things on the internet. It’s wise to be doubting on the internet. Why trust when Verification is the only way to go.
That’s why i hope they have the courage to put themselves out there and their message to Games Workshop and the world.
Some of the woke stuff has really neat ideas. like treating trans people as ACTUAL PEOPLE. It’s just that. this is fiction. If there’s a game that’s called World of Cats and i complain there’s not enough dogs in the game i should be told to shove off. Yelling at them and accusing them of “speciesism” should have EVERYONE telling me to shove off. If then some investor company is saying that we need to be more inclusive and then makes a company add dogs and then those dogs were always in the game, then that’s what you get. Treating it as a victory for Dog-kind and to defeat the feline hegemony is what is going on right now. just replace cats and dogs with women and men.
If I were to modify dogs in to the game myself then that would be MUCH better.
I love how the issue is so prevalent that other comics have covered it and explain just how insidious it all is. Gosh, political cartoons are great.
and we have this happen. with Roald Dhal and R. L. Stein where publishers took a work and bastardized it.
I reckon we see the same thing here.
So please, GW. ideology or not. crazy conspiricy theories or not. politics or not. IT’S INSANE. The people complaining aren’t misogynistic trolls. not even by a long shot. You’re not helping women. When we ask “where’s the good” for this change we’re finding nothing. As Many people across all identity spectrums are calling your new stuff DOG WATTER.
Maybe listen to them? You’ll get more people on your side if you get back in touch instead of demonizing people. It doesn’t matter how good the intentions or “cause” may be for this change. Gaslighting is wrong. Maybe the cause and the like isnt’ that good if you have to resort to that kind of bull. Woke or not I dont’ care. It’s not fun. It’s not good.
So please, GW, reconsider. and get back in touch with people. Let’s all have a bit more empathy and nuance and maybe see if our actions really match up with our values.
I talked on the phone with the representative. It’s strange that all their calls were backed up and only went online on 14:00 Central Standard Time on April 17th.
Is this because they knew this unreleased product was going to be controversial? is it because they got a lot of complaints and are just throwing them out? Then again, I’m assuming the worst. I shouldn’t do the same thing that Games Workshop does.
it is an intentional cause of just creating Strife for the sake of creating strife and media Buzz. Gizmodo should bury their heads in shame for writing that new article of “not doing away with ‘toxic’ fans” as they take the side of the worst of it.
There are people mad and they have damn good reasons. Sadly, I hope GW goes back. Walking back a bad decision isn’t weakness. It’s not the end. It’s a beginning.
Courage is in shorter supply than Empathy and i hope Games Workshop is a trail blazer and trend setter. The only mistake is continuing down on a bad path. Course adjustment is not a mistake.
I just see the same things happening to them as happened to me.
I’m gay, but also a nerd. I had a home but this Corporate virtue signaling bullcrap is destroying it.
So no wonder people are passionate. History was kinder to my gay identity but not the nerd one. I see them not being left well enough alone simply because some bigots just want to pick on the nerd or queer in High School.
This time, they just do it with a corporate marketing department pretending to be for “inclusion” when it’s anything but. My Gay identity is being treated as golden while my nerd identity is being rubbished the same way my Gay identity used to be.
And some people have the gall to call the chuds bigoted? Nah, that’s why I feel unsafe. As crazy as the chuds sound. I’d rather have that than the proverbial knife in the back by people who say they have my back.. but chop other people’s heads off if they get in the way of their self-righteous crusade to “fix” what isn’t broken. To “fix” lore that isn’t sexist. To fix people that aren’t broken. To create a scandal where there doesn’t need to be one.
There was nothing stopping people from having lgbt or queer Custodies at their own tables. And the people that play games just say “ good for you, well are you going to play or not?” And i guess some activists could not operate at that room temperature and had to create some sort of “games are seixst racist homophobic” blah blah blah. to get money and fame and capitalize on young queer people that feel attacked.
But in essence, we’re repeat the same mistakes. So stop it. It’s not worth the human cost and the damage to people, Much less the fiscal one.