Film Fumblings presents Marvel vs DC
I sat down with my colleague Ben, for another instalment of….FILM FUMBLINGS [Insert Dramatic Music].
Ben weighs in on the Marvel versus DC cinematic universes and it went something like this:
Ben: Should I start with my general opinion? Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy is the best comic book trilogy and three of the best comic book movies…ever…..made.
Let me begin by saying…I want to preface the whole conversation, when I talk about DC films. I’m not talking about the Christopher Nolan [CN]Batman trilogy, I’m talking specifically about the new ‘Justice League Team’ movies that DC are PUMPING out at the moment.
Now look at what Zack Snyder is doing and compare it to Marvel and the cinematic universe that they've created…it’s appalling.
Ed: Don’t sit on the fence Ben, tell us what you really mean.
Ben: No, just no. The comparison is offensive. Or rather the DC films themselves are offensive, they offend me, as a Batman fan.
Batman is my favorite comic book hero of all time but I am a self confessed Marvel fanboy. I can’t criticize them, not since the first Iron Man film and a lot of that is down to the way they’ve taken time…it’s nearly 10 years…building an interwoven universe with deep characters and individual story lines that come together.
Ed: I feel like you’re holding back on your hatred. Come to the dark side.
Ben: If Marvel hadn’t of done what they’ve done………….. I wouldn’t HATE DC as much.
I mean look at Suicide Squad and Batman vs Superman!
At this point Ben held his head in his hands.
Man of Steel wasn’t great but it wasn’t bad.
But the way DC tried to catch up with the Marvel universe…introducing 4–5 new characters per film where as you look at the way Marvel do it…Ironman to the Hulk…who was next? Captain America! Thor! They all have their own film and give them the space to introduce and develop the character,the themes, powers..and when they come together it’s entertaining. You’ve grown to know the characters.
Too much, too soon and not enough Christopher Nolan
[At this point Ben put on a voice and imitated some faceless suit at DC]
“DC: Lets rush this out and chase the money”
Ben: They’ve taken all the fun out of Comic book movies, which is the most important thing about films…you should be able to watch them over and over again…not the most intelligent films but they’re interesting and exciting.
It shouldn’t work, Thor who is literally a God, having a conversation with Hawkeye whose special power is archery. But it worked.
It worked because of Josh Whedon, who by the way is directing the new Batgirl movie.
But if it’s anything like the Halle Berry Catwoman movie, I want no part of it. No part at all, but I have faith in the Whedon.
It all comes down to money.
DC were late to the game and are playing catch up and it really hasn’t worked.
EH: Quality over quantity?
Ben: Quality over speed…Batman who is the most iconic character of all time, didn’t even get his own film before they moved on to the ‘Justice League’, he was mashed into a title with ‘Superman’ and you actually had a point in the film where Batman introduces the rest of the Justice League via a file on his computer. It was that ridiculous. The Flash logo…Batman obviously spent time making these icons when he wasn’t fighting crime and ironing his tights.
We watch him, watching a video of these superheroes when it could of been a ‘big impact reveal’ in three films down the line.
[At this point he scratches his head, trying to work out the # of films before ‘The Avengers’]
Ben: I know it comes across as me hating DC comics and DC characters, I don’t.
I just hate the DC cinematic universe.
Don’t get me started on Suicide Squad.
Ed: What’s to hate about that? Its got Will Smith in it. [Disclaimer; I was baiting Ben at this point].
Ben: Oh god. Suicide Squad was 20 music videos — I shouldn’t say edited because that’s offensive to editors, but mashed into one disturbing reel and does such a disservice to the characters. The way they portrayed them. The actors didn’t do an awful job with the script they were given, but you can tell there were horrific cuts made to the stories they were going with.
The idea of a team of bad guys coming together to do ‘cloak and dagger’ for the government should of been an R rated movie..like Logan.
Suicide Squad should of been more violent, more adult targeted like Deadpool and Logan, both films within Fox’s X-Men Universe which understood what they were and what was appealing and ran with it.
So I get to watch an old Wolverine literally tear people’s faces apart and it’s BRILLIANT.
Ed: So is this leading towards a golden age of comic book heroes/films? We’ve seen it with television.
Ben: Yeah, maybe it peaked around the Avengers…or maybe it’ll peak around the Infinity War.
Ed: What’s that about? Infinity War?
Ben: It’s the event that’s been building up since the first Avengers movie. The big villain Thanos, the Marvel equivalent of ….I won’t even go into DC… he’s the big bad…he’ll probably come in…the film next year and the original Avengers will die or leave the team — you’ll be left with a changed universe. This is where Marvel know what they are doing, got to keep it fresh and introduce new characters.
I don’t think a Justice league film with Aquaman or The Flash will cut it.
Ed: Aquaman is a fish right?
Ben: He can control the ocean and the fish.
Ed: He’s a fish God.
Ben: He is…the fish God.
There is something that Marvel does really well when they take what seems like a stupid idea, like Thor…something almost unfilmable, a God coming down to earth and ‘the fish out of water’ movie but it was really enjoyable.
It’s the same idea with Guardians of the Galaxy — a cancelled comic book series that ran for 10 issues, but it was probably a fan favorite because it was fun.
Ed: I’m only going to see the new Guardians of the Galaxy because Kurt Russell is in it. He’s still Snake Plissken to me but I’m waffling.
Marvel’s understanding of time…as an essential marketing tool. They get it. People will speculate and theorize because they’re living in that universe and they play on that by inserting those post credit teases, the Nick Fury’s, Robert Downey Jnr turning up at the end of ‘The Incredible Hulk’. I can’t think of any other inter-connected universes that do that…I might be wrong. Don’t quote me on that.[Ahahaha. No -E]
The worst Marvel movie since Ironman was probably Thor 2 and I’d still watch that 5 times in a row, before I’d watch Suicide Squad or Batman vs Superman again.
And I think that’s all I have to say.