Oral History
Interview with my Nonno
Introduction
My grandfather is a simple man. He likes horses, the casinos in Atlantic City, cooking, and most importantly being with his family and friends. I never knew much about him beyond these things. When I first started this project, I looked at it as a means of tracing my family history from Italy to America, but as I have progressed throughout the semester, I have become inspired to make this project something meaningful for the generations that follow me and for those that precede me. I saw this oral history as an opportunity to capture all the important parts of my grandfather’s life and the memories he has of my great-grandfather and use them to paint a picture of my family’s roots.
The original questions I wrote for this interview were very specific and not entirely in line with the goals of my project. I have since revised my goals and thus, revised my interview questions. I took this opportunity of talking with my grandfather to really get to know who he was as a child and young adult. I wanted to know about his responsibilities as a child and as a part of his family. I also asked about what his life was like once he had kids to see how he had changed over time and with new experiences. Many of the questions are very open-ended partly because I think the way that he chooses to respond to some of them says a lot about him all on its own.
Alaina: Hey Nonno. How was the racetrack?
Nonno: Good. I got back around 5 and just had some dinner.
Alaina: Okay cool. Are you ready to answer the questions?
Nonno: Yep. I’m ready.
Alaina: This is just an oral history, so it can kind of be whatever we want it to be. I have some questions written down about your childhood and other questions about traditions and stuff about Grandma and Grandpa Rafanelli. But it is not necessarily specific questions about where grandpa came from or when he was born.
Nonno: Oh okay, cause I a’int gonna have all them dates and all that.
Alaina: That’s okay. So if I ask you a question that you don’t know the answer to it or don’t want to answer, that’s fine. Just let me know.
Nonno: Okay.
Alaina: The questions are kind of open-ended, so you can just talk about whatever you want and take as long as you need to answer them. Okay?
Nonno: Okay.
Alaina: So first, can you tell me when and where you were born?
Nonno: I was, um, you want my name?
Alaina: Yeah!
Nonno: Okay. Dominick Rafanelli. And I was born in Hoboken in 1942 on March 23 in St. Mary’s Hospital on 3rd and Willow.
Alaina: Okay, you’ve lived in Hoboken your whole life, right?
Nonno: I lived in Hoboken up to, uh I got married and I was like 20 years old.
Alaina: What was it like living there when you were a kid?
Nonno: We had a lot of fun. It was a small town. It was a mile square. The whole town was a mile square. And we had a lot of gas street games that we used to do. Play street games, kick the can, kickball. And we had the river there, the Hudson River. That was off of Hoboken and we used to go down to the river and fish a lot.
Alaina: What is your mother and father’s names?
Nonno: My mother’s name was Rose and my father’s name was Carlo.
Alaina: And your siblings?
Nonno: Marta and also Carlo
Alaina: Carlo… Is that Uncle Babe?
Nonno: Uncle Babe is Carlo too yeah.
Alaina: What was it like growing up with them? Did you and Aunt Marta and Uncle Babe get along?
Nonno: We got along very good. They were both the honorable students and I didn’t graduate. Hahaha.
Alaina: You didn’t graduate high school?
Nonno: I didn’t graduate high school. But both of them graduated high school. My brother went to Stevens College in Hoboken. He graduated college. And they both graduated with honors.
Alaina: Aunt Marta went to college too?
Nonno: Aunt Marta didn’t go to college. She just went to high school, but she was honor roll and an A1 student.
Alaina: Why didn’t you graduate high school?
Nonno: No she graduated high school.
Alaina: No why didn’t you graduate high school?
Nonno: Why didn’t I?
Alaina: Yeah.
Nonno: I just didn’t like school at the time. My father made me go to work. He said if you don’t go to school you have to go to work, and I opened my first business when I was 16 years old.
Alaina: What was that business?
Nonno: It was washing cars and polishing cars. I had 4 people working for me and I was 16 years old.
Alaina: You opened your first business at 16?
Nonno: At 16 yes.
Alaina: That’s crazy. That was right in Hoboken, like in town?
Nonno: In Hoboken, I rented a garage and back then I paid 9 dollars a month for the garage. They supplied me water and we just polished and sanitized cars. I did that for two years.
Alaina: What did you do after that?
Nonno: Then I went into Bethlehem Steel. It was a shipyard company. And I went in as a helper and a tin smith in a tin shop where they made stainless steel sinks for the ships and cabinets. I ended up becoming a foreman. I went from being a helper and I got promoted to a foreman because I was good on my job. I had, like 12 men under me who worked for me. And I stood there for a couple of years and then, I did like two years and I didn’t want to stay there no more.
Alaina: What did your mom and dad do for work?
Nonno: My mom didn’t work. She was home. And my dad worked for General Foods back, um, I don’t know how many years it was, but I would say at least 30 years. He made Jello.
Alaina: So he did that for basically your whole life?
Nonno: Yes he basically worked for General Foods until General Foods moved out of Hoboken and then the last couple, 4 or 5 years, he worked for Maxwell House coffee. He was a laborer all his life.
Alaina: Right, because he started as like a fisherman, right?
Nonno: He was. When he left Italy, his mother and father were in Italy, I mean his mother was in Italy with his sister. His father was dead. And he had to support his family and he was 9 years old. He worked on a ship as a merchant marine. He traveled to Spain and he traveled all different countries and whatever money he made, he would send it to his mother. Then when he got to the United States, I think it was at age, I’m not sure, 13, 14, he jumped off the ship in New York. But he ended up being a citizen because he had to go back and he became a citizen of the United States.
Alaina: Did you ever know or meet your grandma?
Nonno: My grandmother no but I met my grandfather.
Alaina: Did he come to America before your dad?
Nonno: My grandfather lived in Hoboken and he owned uh, I don’t remember cause I wasn’t born then, but he owned like 6 big apartment houses. But in the depression time when people couldn’t pay the rent, he let them live there for nothin’ and he ended up losin’ all his houses.
Alaina: Do you know why he came to America without his wife and…
Nonno: No no he came with his wife, but I never met her. She passed away before I was born.
Alaina: Oh, okay.
Nonno: So I never got to see my grandmother.
Alaina: I was under the impression that she stayed in Italy, but I didn’t know that they all eventually ended up in America.
Nonno: I don’t think she, I’m not sure, now my father’s mother was in Italy.
Alaina: Yeah that’s who I’m taking about.
Nonno: Now the grandfather I’m talking about is my mother’s father.
Alaina: Oh I was talking about Grandpa Rafanelli’s father.
Nonno: My father? No, his mother never came to the United States. She always stood in Italy. She never came to the United States. My mother’s father was here.
Alaina: Alright, so kind of a turn. When you were younger, what did you like to do? Did you like to read books or listen to music? Did you play sports?
Nonno: No not really even for sports. I used to always do something as far as business-wise. I would always buy stuff, sell stuff. At age 15 years old, I owned 14 cars. And I sold them. I buy them and sold them.
Alaina: Isn’t that what you were showing me when we were looking at pictures? Of you standing in front of a car. Is that what you are talking about?
Nonno: Oh yeah, well I owned a lot of cars and I used to buy them and sell them. That’s what I basically did. I wasn’t even old enough to drive them.
Alaina: Who taught you how to cook?
Nonno: Myself.
Alaina: Yourself?
Nonno: Yes. I watched what everybody, my mother when she used to cook and I used to ask people and then I, that’s how I just got involved in cooking…all different items.
Alaina: So your mom never really taught you, you just kind of watched her?
Nonno: Right, cause I was helping her in the kitchen. I would help her in the kitchen and she would show me what she was doing and I just picked it up and then I started doing it myself.
Alaina: Was there any special food or recipe that you made yourself or was your favorite?
Nonno: No. Nope, none.
Alaina: Were you guys religious because I know you don’t go to church now?
Nonno: No, my father and mother were Catholics, but they weren’t really religious. My mother used to try to take me to Sunday school, but I was in one door and out the other door. I didn’t like it.
Alaina: Did you guys celebrate Christmas and Easter though?
Nonno: We celebrated Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter. All the major holidays. Yes. We never really said prayers at night or at the dinner table or anything else like that.
Alaina: Did you guys try to eat dinner as a family?
Nonno: We always did. When I was a kid, at 5 o’clock, my father would be home from work. We all had to be at that table at 5 o’clock for dinner. There was no excuses not to be there. There was no such thing as me eating later or somebody else coming in. My brother or my sister; we all had to be at the table at the same time. And always on holidays, we always had a big group. We had aunts, uncles, everybody was at, usually at my mother and father’s house.
Alaina: Aside from big holidays, did you see all your relatives a lot?
Nonno: Yes. We seen our relatives a lot of times. All the time. We used to go visit them. They used to come visit us.
Alaina: How far were they from you?
Nonno: Some were like 20 minutes, a half hour. Some were 10 minutes away and the furthest were in Florida, which was maybe 1200 miles away. But we used to go to visit them and come back.
Alaina: Haha. Who was that?
Nonno: That was my Aunt Kay and Uncle Louis. That was my mother’s sister.
Alaina: Yeah I met her. They’ve been there for a while.
Nonno: Oh yeah, they were there, oh let’s see, Brian’s what 50- something years old. So they were there 50 years ago they moved into Florida.
Alaina: Brian is Aunt Kay’s son, right?
Nonno: Brian is my aunt’s son. I think he’s like 55 and then my cousin Arlene is…No Brian has got to be 60-something and Arlene is got to be 68. She had a daughter and a son.
Alaina: Right! What are their names again?
Nonno: Kevin and Melissa.
Alaina: Would you say that the way we celebrate Christmas now is similar to how you guys celebrated Christmas?
Nonno: Yes it is similar, the same thing. Everybody gets together. Everybody helps making food together. And everybody comes together for Christmas. Or New Years, Thanksgiving, the holidays.
Alaina: Alright, another little turn. We are gonna talk about Nan. When and where did you guys meet and what drew you to her?
Nonno: To who?
Alaina: Nanny.
Nonno: My ex-wife?
Alaina: Yes
Nonno: Okay. I met her in Grammar school. I started to go out with her when I was in Grammar school.
Alaina: How old were you?
Nonno: Mm, I think 13, 14 years old. Cause the eight grade is grammar school.
Alaina: So you guys dated all through high school?
Nonno: No I only was in high school for two months and then I went to electrical school.
Alaina: So when did you guys get married?
Nonno: When I was 20 years old. And then when I got married, at that time, I left the shipyards and I ended up working for- we lived in West Newark. We had a two-bedroom apartment that we used to rent. I ended up working for an embroidery company driving a truck. I basically didn’t like the job. It didn’t really pay much so I took a shot and I opened up my own gas station. I had one in Jersey City and then from Jersey City, we went to Bricktown. I had my own house built on the lagoon and I opened up another gas station and also opened up a used car lot. Then in 1972, I got rid of the car lot and the gas station and I opened up a construction company. I built homes and condos.
Alaina: Is that what you were doing when Uncle Carl was born?
Nonno: Yes. Well, when my son was born, I had the gas station and the car lot.
Alaina: Were there any specific things that you would do with all your kids annually or regularly?
Nonno: Most of the time, because we lived on the water, we had the lagoon in the back, and I always had a boat, I would take all my children. We used to go out on the boat. We would go crabbing, or water skiing or tubing, then go to the beach. We mostly did a lot of water sports when the children were young. Your Nanny didn’t like the water at all. She never came. So the children used to be with me on the beach and on the boat. She didn’t like the water. She would never come out with us.
Alaina: Do you know what she would do when you guys went out?
Nonno: She was home cleaning, cooking, going out shopping. She was always doing something.
Alaina: I remember you telling me about some place on a beach somewhere every summer. Keansburg?
Nonno: Oh! My father. That’s when I was young. Well yeah, no I wasn’t married at the time. My father had bungalows like houses. He used to rent them and keep one for us so we would go down there in the summer. But at that time, I was maybe 16 years old.
Alaina: Oh I’m sorry. I got confused. I thought you took your kids there.
Nonno: Nope I wasn’t married at the time.
Alaina: Okay. Were there any family traditions that you tried to establish? Or was there anything that just sort of happened to become a tradition?
Nonno: No not really.
Alaina: Is there anything else you want to add that you think would be important for me to include in this?
Nonno: The other thing is that after I had the construction company, I opened up two pizzerias in Englishtown auction and then bought racehorses.
Alaina: When was that?
Nonno: I started that, let’s see, 1974 I opened up the pizzerias in Englishtown and then in 78 and 79 I started buying racehorses.
Alaina: And you’ve kind of been doing that up until today. You’re not buying them anymore right?
Nonno: I’ve been out of the horse business now almost 4 years.
Alaina: But you still go to the racetrack, right? That’s where you were today?
Nonno: I go to the racetrack, yes. We have a private room we all sit in. And we go to the casino once a week.
Alaina: Who is “we”?
Nonno: Me and two of my friends. We drive down and we relax.
Alaina: What are their names?
Nonno: Dave and Wally and we go down there, go relax for the day, have dinner and come home.
Alaina: Ah, yes, the infamous Wally.
Nonno: Yeah hahaha. That’s Wally.
Alaina: Okay I think that’s all I have. I do have some philosophical questions just for fun if you want to answer them. If not, it’s fine.
Nonno: What’s that?
Alaina: They are just broad questions. If you don’t know or don’t want to answer that’s fine, but I can just go ahead and ask you.
Nonno: Go ahead and ask. I’ll see if I can answer.
Alaina: What is your favorite thing about yourself?
Nonno: I don’t know. I guess, uh I don’t know. I really don’t have any.
Alaina: What is your greatest regret?
Nonno: Not having an education.
Alaina: If you had the means to, would you go back?
Nonno: I’m too old to go back to school. Hahahaha.
Alaina: What is your favorite trait in a person?
Nonno: A person that’s always happy and has a good mood all the time.
Alaina: When and where were you happiest?
Nonno: Oh, when I lived on the water with my children. (*side note: he answered this question very quickly and without hesitation and it made me and my mother very happy.)
Alaina: Aww. Well that’s it.
Nonno: That’s it?
Alaina: Yep thank you!
Nonno: Alright love you. Be good.
Alaina: Love you too bye.
Nonno: Okay bye bye.
Reflection
How does your tradition-bearer’s story relate to your community in both the present and the past? How does it relate to you?
The interview with my Nonno showed me how different our circumstances are. He wasn’t always presented with a plethora of opportunities to figure out what to make of himself. I think what really stood out to me was that, even though he didn’t like school and didn’t get his education, he did not sit around and do nothing. He opened his first business when he was 16 years old and has been moving around starting small businesses and providing for himself his whole life. The same was true with many people of his generation. There is a generational difference between my grandfather and me; nobody expected to be handed anything. They worked hard until they got the outcome they wanted. At the same time, I found that we have a lot in common. We both like setting and achieving goals and staying active. My Nonno’s story gave me sight into how hard he worked to become who he is today and how that hard work left an impact on my life.
How did your perception of community history change, from before the interview to now?
Although my grandfather did not elaborate very much on this topic, he did mention that his mother’s father was a very kind person who was renting out apartments to people in the community. When the Depression hit, he allowed them to stay there for free, which is what ran him out of business. I think this gave me insight to the community history in that, everyone was willing to work together to help each other out. I did not know much about my great-great-grandparents until that moment so it was an interesting switch of perspective to learn about these real people who made real differences in their community.
How did this project inspire you to learn more about your family and community?
Throughout my life, I always assimilated with Italian culture and prided myself on it in front of my friends. One of the things that many people said to me was “You can’t be 100% Italian! You were born in America!” I always brushed that off, but as I grew up and even before this project, I started to think about how they were right. I had always boasted about being Italian and taking pride in my Italian-American culture, but I never truly knew who I was or how closely intertwined my daily actions were to Italian culture.
If there is one thing I learned from this interview, it is that there is not one nor a few specific things that make anyone strictly Italian or Italian-American, or any culture really. From hearing how my Nonno was taught to work towards achievement and how important family was to them, I have seen how those traditions -minute as they may be- have been passed down through my family. Seeing how these small aspects are so crucial to the backbone of my family, I am inspired to learn more about the little things that make us who we are.
What were some of the challenges you faced during this project? What could you do differently in your next oral history interview?
After the interview with my grandfather, I read through the entire thing and found myself asking so many questions. When I first wrote the questions for this interview, I was not quite sure what I needed to ask to get the answers I wanted. Now that I look back, I think it would be important to do a follow-up interview with my grandfather to see if he can fill in any more gaps. I want someone to be able to read this and have a full understanding of what my Nonno experienced and how his decisions shaped our family. I think in my next interview I would like to sit down face-to-face with him so that the conversation is more relaxed and not just me asking a bunch of questions. The conversation had some lengthy pauses because I was unsure of how to ask a follow up question that would elicit the response I was looking for.
While I did speak with my Nonno before the interview, I think I could have made it clearer that it wasn’t just an interview about facts but also a story that I was trying to tell. I think if I had made that more of a priority, the conversation would have been different and there might not be as many gaps in the flow. I would have asked more questions about the historical events that were going on when he was a child or if he knew what my great-grandfather was dealing with that lead him to America.
I know that in my family we don’t have some tragic backstory through the Depression or WWII or anything like that, so I don’t know if he would have been able to answer historical questions or how it impacted his life, but it would be interesting just to ask. I also really wanted to know more about what his life was like with my grandmother before they got divorced, but he doesn’t really like to talk about that part of his life.
If the roles were reversed and you became the tradition-bearer, what stories would you like to tell?
I think it would be important to share with my children and grandchildren the stories of both sides of my family. It is so crucial to see both sides of the family because not just one part makes up a person. I wish I knew more about the whole aspect of my grandfather’s life and his mother’s side of the family.
One of my favorite stories about my family that I would love to share with generations to come is about one year when we spent Christmas on a cruise ship. Seeing as Christmas traditions are very important to my family, my mother went out of her way to decorate our cabins and even made Christmas cookies for use to decorate on the ship. This story is so important because it shows that our family is willing to do whatever is necessary to keep traditions alive and to spend time together. I would want my children and grandchildren to respect the time and effort our family puts into making traditions happen and making sure everyone has the best time when we are all together.
I also think an important story to tell would be of this project. I would want to share the stories of resilience between my great-grandfather who came to America and my grandfather. They both had a hard-working attitude that broke so many barriers. From my great-grandfather leaving his mother at the age of 9 to start making a better life for himself to my grandfather dropping out of school and becoming a successful owner of many business, both these men have shown our family what it takes to thrive through hardship.
