‘Podcasts Are The New Media Houses’: An Interview With Kenyan Podcaster Adelle Onyango
By Paula Rogo
Each week, I write a column about the growth of podcasting in Africa from my perch in Nairobi, Kenya.
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(July 9, 2020)
When award-winning media personality Adelle Onyango announced in May that her year-old podcast, Legally Clueless, had been syndicated by Trace FM Kenya, I was excited.
In the press release, Adelle, who has always been a bit of a trailblazer, claimed it was the first time a podcast had ever been syndicated “in the region.” Although some might argue that Jack Rooster’s music-based Deeper Sounds of Nairobi/ Caffe Mocha was the first podcast to be syndicated by Homeboyz Radio, Adelle’s achievement is further confirmation that there are some big decision makers who are seeing the potential of African podcasting and want to jump on board.
Even though I mulled over traditional media being slow on the podcasting uptake in last week’s column, it was interesting to see Trace Media — whose radio expansion into Kenya only arrived in late 2019 — take this chance. French-owned Trace media is a large digital, entertainment and education platform available in 162 countries and expanding further into Africa.
The new syndication deal is a dream for any Kenyan podcaster: Adelle’s show is now distributed three times a week in Nairobi, Mombasa, Kisumu, Webuye, Eldoret and Meru. With most Kenyan podcasters being Nairobi dwellers, having a distribution deal that expands reach outside the capital is groundbreaking.
It has been over a year since Adelle had stepped away from her very comfortable gig as a host on Kiss FM, and through her own machinations and sheer will, she was back on radio…but now on her own terms.
And so, I reached out to her about this new column on African podcasting and she agreed to talk to me about how the Trace deal came to be, her podcasts (she also has a live-show pod called Pursepective), owning her media, and taking over Africa through podcasting.
Q: Congratulations again on your new syndication deal. How did it come together with Trace FM?
A: So I’d always wanted a syndicated show. I think from way back when I was still doing the midmorning show at Kiss FM. I was one of those people who listened to [Rick Dees Weekly Top 40] on Capital FM. He is a fantastic host, but I was listening more from a technical angle. How is this produced? What is this model where it’s sent out to different media houses? It was very intriguing for me and I always wanted to explore that. And so Trace was the third [company] I had pitched to. Not because I was holding off, I just didn’t think they would be interested in that. When I started working on Legally Clueless throughout 2019, I treated my podcasts like it was a startup. So when I look at distribution models, I thought syndication would be a good way to bridge the people who don’t really understand podcasts yet, or how audio content and media is evolving, to kind of bring them into podcasting … and it’d be a good revenue bringer as well.
[So after the first two pitches were rejected], I was talking to someone at Trace about the media for hours…I am a geek for that type of conversation. And they were like, “Wait! That would really work for us..”.. And so I went in and pitched and they came on board. Covid delayed our plans a bit, but we just decided to go ahead with it. I’m so thankful that the first two [media companies] didn’t work. Because now I’m like, “Ah yes, this makes sense.”
Q: You feel that Trace understands what you’re doing or what you’re trying to do?
A: They get it. I don’t have to overextend myself. They’re willing to support and even add value to the podcast. I think the universe was saving me for this.
Q: In last week’s column, I talk about how slow traditional media in Kenya has been to acknowledge, accept and take on podcasts. Do you feel that the first two pitch rejections were circumstantial? Or do you feel like they just didn’t get what you were trying to put in front of them?
A: I think the first pitch for sure didn’t get it. Because I thought I was mad. I don’t know if anyone else has had those pitches where the reaction is so meh and off. I wondered maybe I’m crazy to think this could be a thing, you know? So the first one, I definitely think they just didn’t get it.
I think it’s one of those situations where the industry is evolving so fast that if you’re not up to date with it, you think your market is so far removed and those changes are not gonna come to you soon. And so when somebody pitches something that sounds like it’s 10 years ahead of its time, you quickly are like, “no, there’s no point in investing in that right now.”
So I definitely think that a lot of traditional media houses in Kenya are not adapting quickly. And even the things that we’re seeing now with the layoffs and the pay cuts in the traditional media industry. Yes, Covid has quickened how those changes have come to pass. But I think also the failure to adapt plays a role. Yeah, it definitely plays a role.
Q: Trace FM is new within Kenya, launching in late 2019. Do you think they were more open because they’re young and new to market?
A: I don’t think it was about them being new. I think Trace FM internally is a brand [where] I just don’t think they try and do things the same old way. They have a history of going with whatever feels right and true for them, and not taking a long time to do it. I think the team is a bit more exposed in that sense. And so certain things don’t seem groundbreaking. Whereas, if you pitch to a more traditional brand, even just the bureaucracy; oh, you have to go to this person, who has to go to this person for approval. So I don’t think Trace being new matters because I’ve always seen them as that brand that has always done things very differently and has always been a bit refreshing in that sense. Which is why then afterwards I was like, “oh, thank heavens that this pitch was rejected twice before.”
Q: You had the most popular podcast in Kenya last year, your first year, with 388,000 streams, according to OnePulse research. And it’s only been a couple of weeks since the syndication began. Have you seen a spike in your data? And how are you measuring success?
A: It’s so interesting you ask that because it is something I do with all my projects. I ask myself, “what does success look like.” Because if you’re going to track if you’re still on the right path, then you have to have a goal that you are working towards. It’s hard to say because my goal was anchored on various pillars such as distribution, taking the podcast on tours and getting it outside of Nairobi and then outside of Kenya … it’s hard to say though, which one thing has caused the spike because there is a cross promotion. So the online platform promotes the syndicated platform and the syndicated platform promotes the online platform. But then also, I have my own marketing schedule for it that I think if a brand does consistently actually yield results.
And so I think a lot contributes to it, but there’s definitely been a spike. And there’s been a lot of commercial interest on the syndicated platform from corporate because now they are realizing, “ah, okay, so we can advertise on Legally Clueless on Trace” because that’s a language they understand.
Q: Interesting. You see a difference in how they respond to you on the podcast versus to you on the radio?
A: Oh definitely! From the older more established [corporates] for sure. Because now after they experience it on radio they’re like, “oh, wait, I think you can do this with this brand.” And it’s just like, “I spent one year telling you this.” (laughs)
Q: That’s interesting because it’s about meeting them where they are in order to get them to where you want to go.
A: Yeah, it is. And you know, most of the decision makers are older. It just takes a longer time for them to understand these things. Whereas for us, it’s a bit faster, it’s easier for us to understand.
Q: I first interviewed you for Kali Letter over a year ago, just as you announced you were leaving Kiss FM after a decade in radio to venture off on your own. It feels very full circle to talk to you now because your voice is back on the radio… but really on your own terms. So how is this different for people who don’t understand?
A: It’s different in multiple ways. First, one pillar of wealth creation is ownership. And so, how this is different is I own my show. I am in conversations about commercial splits and my show can earn a monthly revenue for itself. Which as an employee, most traditional media houses do not give you that because with most employment contracts in media, whatever you create at that station belongs to the station. So that, for me, is one major thing that I was very clear about. I have to own whatever it is that I do, because then that is the only way I can truly remain true to the content I want to create without anybody saying what needs to change this blah blah.
The second thing is that I dictate the content. Which, again, in traditional media as a presenter, whatever idea or content you want to put out would have to be approved first. There are quite a few times that content will be shoved down your throat and you’ll have to say certain things that you don’t really believe or want to say. But it’s not your platform, it’s not your show. So you have to do it!
Q: As a media practitioner myself, I love this because it’s really on my own terms. You get to decide. And you get to say no and yes to everything that happens, which is extremely powerful. Especially as a woman in the media.
A: Yeah, it’s really wild. It’s something that I’ve always wanted to do, but you know, there is that doubt in your mind? I wasn’t sure if Kenya is ready for this… but yeah, I think those are the main things for me. Even technically I produce whatever goes on Trace from my home office and I send it over to them. I think the last time I was at Trace offices was right before we announced the syndication. So even in a technical and logistical nature, it’s so different
Q: It’s been over a year since you launched Legally Clueless. And in that time, the podcasting has exploded in Kenya. It feels like five years worth in one year. Where do you see pods going in Kenya and in Africa?
A: It’s almost limitless. But I think what is exciting for me, especially for Africans, is that we finally can have ownership over our stories, and ownership over the issues that we want to talk about on our terms. Because in very many African countries, the traditional media houses are compromised because of who owns them and who sits on their boards and things like that. But for podcasting and new media in general, for Africans, it’s deeper than a show. It’s deeper than making money or the streams. It’s for the first time, we as Africans, your regular day to day Africans, have agency over our stories and whatever we think is important that we want to talk about.
I mean, there are podcasts that are being recorded only using smartphones, and edited and posted. So for me, it’s just like, “oh, my God, where are we headed to next?!” It’s exciting. And it gets rid of a lot of the gatekeepers who lock out talent or particular content. So I think it’s fascinating. We now have agency over our stories.
Q: When I was promoting Africa Podfest, I did a radio tour and talked to many different radio stations, different radio personalities, different times of the day, etc. And there was an underlying question that was never fully asked. And it was whether podcasters were going to replace radio personalities. And so with your new deal and having been on radio before, are podcasters replacing radio personalities? And are podcasts replacing radio?
A: I think podcasts are the new media houses.
And it’s weird to call them that because literally all I need is my mic and my laptop, and I’m a media platform. Other people just need their phones, which is so wild to think about because I’m used to bulky equipment, getting a license for frequency, big money and all of that.
So it’s wild to think about because if run properly, podcasts could replace not just radio per se, but actual radio houses.
And in terms of podcasters, replacing radio personalities, I was having a conversation some months ago with someone who wanted to start a radio station and looking for presenters. I was like, “this is so strange. Why would you be looking for personalities to hire as employees for your radio station?” If I was to have a radio station, I would not hire employees. I’d get into contract deals with podcasters and have a content radio station because it would make sense business-wise for me …I just think it’s a leaner, smarter way to do your business.
So it depends on the radio presenters and where they position themselves. Because if you are host of your podcast, you are a presenter, right? The edge that I think podcasters have is that we can fully be ourselves 100% because there’s nobody trying to dictate what we should say or what type of angle our content should take. And we can adjust in real time if we need to adjust our content. And people relate more with hosts who are “realer.” You create this bond with listeners that I don’t think you can do as a radio presenter because you’re very aware of talking to thousands of people, not one person.
Q: And your boss is listening.
A: And your boss is listening and leaning right over your shoulder. If their contracts allow them to, I think radio presenters really should have their own podcasts. But employment contracts sometimes are restrictive.
Q: How has this time of COVID been for you in terms of the work that you’re doing podcasting and so forth? What has changed for you? I remember you had your one-year anniversary live show that was cancelled soon after Africa Podfest. So how has this time of COVID been both helpful to you and how has it also stopped you for some of the things we’re planning to do?
A: When Covid came through it became one of those things that you can’t postpone [the event]. We couldn’t say we were postponing it for a week or a month because you just don’t know. And so it was a bit nerve wracking because that was my first ever Legally Clueless event. But I didn’t mull over it for too long.
Also, because I guess my focus was what is this Covid thing? Is the world ending? (laughs). That was my main focus. In terms of production of the pod, not so much has changed because I work from home anyway. I can record remotely. So that was ok. And the content, aside from the African stories, is still very related to taking care of yourself and your well being mentally so just it just meant that I needed to be more specific to the recent effects of Covid like people losing their jobs…
Q: What’s next for both Legally Clueless and Pursepective?
Purspective was meant to go on tour later this year. I don’t know if that’s gonna happen, which I’m not too sad about. When the time is right, the time is right.
In terms of Legally Clueless, it’s really really growing. On our online platform, we’ve just passed half a million streams, which is so exciting for me. And I’m also trying to think about how to change the pillars that make up the Legally Clueless ecosystem. How do you evolve during this down time?
But I’m really excited that we’ve been able to have notable Africans share stories on the podcast like Manifest, Banky W…so I’m loving that and I want to keep pushing to have as many different African voices as possible. Because everybody has a story and every African story is valid. It’s been really fun for me to connect with listeners and for my 10 years on radio I never did that. It’s interesting to get to know the individual people who are listening.
[This interview was edited for clarity and length].
You can connect with Adelle and her podcasts, Legally Clueless and Perspective on her website. They are available on your favorite platform. Or follow her on Twitter and Instagram.
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Have thoughts on the interview? Drop a comment or hit me: info@kali.media.
ANNOUNCEMENT: I (Paula Rogo) will be speaking on a panel about podcasting at this year’s Radio Day’s Africa conference, which is going digital for 2020 #RDA2020. My panel is on Wednesday, 15 July 2020 at 14:00 SAST (GMT+2). This is Africa’s largest conference for radio professionals, lovers and enthusiasts. Registration is free: https://radiodaysafrica.co.za/programme/
